Public service pay cut?

05-04-2021 1:00am

Geuze wrote: »

No.

PS pensions are unfunded, they are based on promises.

Most private sector pensions are funded, backed by accumulated assets.

I think tbf its almost a moot point seeing as the promise as part of a salary entitlement from a govt would almost bear the weight of sovereign debt.

AndrewJRenko · 05-04-2021 1:02am

ted1 wrote: »

The days of DC are gone. I work for ESB no one who starred in the past few decades has a DC pension

You're mixed up between DB and DC.

05-04-2021 1:02am

ted1 wrote: »

July. August, +2weeks in March and October

Love to go abroad for 3 months in the summer (including march and october)

You can see why its important to be precise tho, cant you?

AndrewJRenko · 05-04-2021 1:04am

ted1 wrote: »

July. August, +2weeks in March and October

You said 3 months off "for the summer"

AndrewJRenko · 05-04-2021 1:05am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think tbf its almost a moot point seeing as the promise as part of a salary entitlement from a govt would almost bear the weight of sovereign debt.

Greek pensioners might disagree.

ted1 · 05-04-2021 1:06am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You're mixed up between DB and DC.

Yea i made a typo that made A private pension better than it is.

am_zarathustra · 05-04-2021 1:26am

Deleted User wrote: »

Love to go abroad for 3 months in the summer (including march and october)

You can see why its important to be precise tho, cant you?

Thanks for taking that on, I couldn't be bothered. A similar type of precision is also helpful in actuarial calculations of future values too of course :pac:

A lot of the younger staff in our place have AVCs along with their pension contributions. Once they were shown the cold difference it was a shock. If they live til 80 it's about a quarter of million in the difference, and that's just to the post 2004 one not thr earlier ones. The career average for a lot that stayed in the recession on half hours too or had patchy work for the first few years will hurt. The ones is Dubai will also struggle later unless they were in the thr profession very young, the old notional service idea is gone.

Hotblack Desiato · 05-04-2021 1:33am

Bobby2004 wrote: »

Whatever does come by way of an increase is only going to be swallowed up by inflation.

Exactly. A 1% "raise" is a pay cut in real terms. I pointed out before how for most of the 90s public servants were tied into 1-1.5% per annum increases when private sector pay was booming, that is never mentioned when benchmarking is brought up - truth was that the public sector couldn't recruit any more and benchmarking was really only a belated catch-up with cost of living pay increases. Then the crash came and benchmarking was reversed and some of those "emergency" pay cuts are still in place 13 years later.

ted1 wrote: »

I have , my sisters a new sisters house are paying into it as they worked i the private sector but moved into teaching do they could holiday with their kids. They are chuffed it’s worth so much compared to what their private sector pension was.

I can guarantee you they won't be laughing when they retire. It's pointed out again and again, but it never sinks in, that public sector pensions are integrated with the old age pension - in effect the OAP that every private sector worker gets is DEDUCTED from a public sector pension. Public sector pensions for staff joining in recent years are no great shakes at all.

ted1 wrote: »

The days of DC are gone. I work for ESB no one who started in the past few decades has a DC pension

LOL :pac:

ESB is the most overpaid organisation in the country, they can literally put the lights out. Bertie used to go in there and offer them whatever they wanted and called it a "negotiation".

killbillvol2 · 05-04-2021 1:42am

The idea that "fund managers" would consider a late entry into teaching under the current scheme as an improvement in their pension would fill me with dread if they'd been managing my funds.

The idea that they miscalculated the summer holidays would be another red flag.

05-04-2021 1:55am

This same conversation was going on here in 2009/2010. Both sides talking past each other. Nobody changes there mind.

The_Honeybadger · 05-04-2021 2:00am

Actual LOL that a fund manager would change careers to go teaching and boast about the pension. God help the poor sods that had money invested with them.

RGARDINR · 05-04-2021 2:03am

The only thing I am looking forward to is eventually the 30 mins extra per day that I won't have to work when this is fully sorted out. Let's be honest the 2% after all the deductions out of it they can keep once the 30 mins extra we now have to work is reversed hopefully down the line. I'm sure most would prefer this sorted then the 2% in their salary which after all the deductions on it is sweet f all to be honest for most civil servants but the time less per day we would work would be great.

am_zarathustra · 05-04-2021 2:08am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Exactly. A 1% "raise" is a pay cut in real terms. I pointed out before how for most of the 90s public servants were tied into 1-1.5% per annum increases when private sector pay was booming, that is never mentioned when benchmarking is brought up - truth was that the public sector couldn't recruit any more and benchmarking was really only a belated catch-up with cost of living pay increases. Then the crash came and benchmarking was reversed and some of those "emergency" pay cuts are still in place 13 years later.

I can guarantee you they won't be laughing when they retire. It's pointed out again and again, but it never sinks in, that public sector pensions are integrated with the old age pension - in effect the OAP that every private sector worker gets is DEDUCTED from a public sector pension. Public sector pensions for staff joining in recent years are no great shakes at all.

LOL :pac:

ESB is the most overpaid organisation in the country, they can literally put the lights out. Bertie used to go in there and offer them whatever they wanted and called it a "negotiation".

Average wage of 80000 in the ESB, so higher than the top of the scale for any teacher. Our electricity is amoung the most expensive in europe.

By contrast spending on the education system in ireland is well below the OECD average and consistently achieves well above average in outcomes........must be all the fund managers teaching in primary

Some parts of our public and civil service are riddled with waste. Education is not one of them

05-04-2021 2:09am

Im up the grades a bit, on post 2004 scheme and comfortable. I dont need anything improved for my part.

My priority for talks is that clerical officers and EOs get the pay rises they deserve and that the amount lower paid officers pay into the single scheme be cut significantly.

NovemberWren · 05-04-2021 2:23am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

LOL :pac:

ESB is the most overpaid organisation in the country, they can literally put the lights out. Bertie used to go in there and offer them whatever they wanted and called it a "negotiation".

Is it the Dept. of Transport that pay the ESB. Is it the Chief Executives that are overpaid? Who are they.

'they can literally put the lights out' - no, they can't -that's just probably Bertie Ahern greasily exhorting them in their state-agreed secrecy, i.e. when it comes to vetting maybe Private Surveillance companies - the parent companies of these are in U.S., where F.F. do business.

And also, do they vet Security Companies in regard to Sensors, definitely used by Irish Water in issuing water.

The ESB are very, very, close to being very extremely sinister.

ted1 · 05-04-2021 7:21am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

LOL :pac:

ESB is the most overpaid organisation in the country, they can literally put the lights out. Bertie used to go in there and offer them whatever they wanted and called it a "negotiation".

There’s a huge difference in pay between the old staff and staff who starters within the past ten years

ted1 · 05-04-2021 7:26am

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Average wage of 80000 in the ESB, so higher than the top of the scale for any teacher.

No it’s not,
It was 85k in 2011: https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-a-startling-array-of-perks-on-offer-for-esb-staff-26767643.html
In 2016 it was down to 62: https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/esb-pay-rise-2716701-Apr2016/%3famp=1
In 2021 it’s 48k: https://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Employer=ESB/Salary

Show me another organisation with such a drop

Wanderer78 · 05-04-2021 7:28am

mariaalice wrote:

Will, there be public service pay cuts and cuts to services themselves after COVID 19? interesting discussion on RTE 1 radio about this, on the other hand, the likes of David McWilliams take a different view on how we can pay for this.

McWilliams is again right, there's no need for cuts post covid, cutting is in fact counter initiative, it's one of the reasons why our health system has been struggling with covid

ted1 wrote:

Thereâ€™s a huge difference in pay between the old staff and staff who starters within the past ten years

Government strategy of division in the public sector is working, it's slowly tearing itself apart

OwaynOTT · 05-04-2021 9:43am

I can I just state as a librarian, I’ve been working all through this. From home, behind closed doors in the library, open to the public, behind closed doors in the library/from home.
Really don’t appreciate the idea that we are not working.

ted1 · 05-04-2021 9:51am

OwaynOTT wrote: »

I can I just state as a librarian, I’ve been working all through this. From home, behind closed doors in the library, open to the public, behind closed doors in the library/from home.
Really don’t appreciate the idea that we are not working.

Is someone suggesting that you are not ?

Mrs OBumble · 05-04-2021 10:06am

OwaynOTT wrote: »

I can I just state as a librarian, I’ve been working all through this. From home, behind closed doors in the library, open to the public, behind closed doors in the library/from home.
Really don’t appreciate the idea that we are not working.

Your doors have been closed for three months, what ha e you had to do during that time?

Wanderer78 · 05-04-2021 10:08am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Your doors have been closed for three months, what ha e you had to do during that time?

really! a person on the internets does not owe you an explanation of what theyre doing or not doing!

Dav010 · 05-04-2021 10:51am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

really! a person on the internets does not owe you an explanation of what theyre doing or not doing!

Having made the point that it annoys him/her that people think he/she hasn’t been working, now is a good opportunity to inform what he/she has actually been doing. Otherwise, why shouldn’t the public assume little is being done?

OwaynOTT wrote: »

I can I just state as a librarian, I’ve been working all through this. From home, behind closed doors in the library, open to the public, behind closed doors in the library/from home.
Really don’t appreciate the idea that we are not working.

What does a librarian do when the library is closed for three months?

Wanderer78 · 05-04-2021 10:55am

Dav010 wrote: »

Having made the point that it annoys him/her that people think he/she hasn’t been working, now is a good opportunity to inform what he/she has actually been doing. Otherwise, why shouldn’t the public assume little is being done?

What does a librarian do when the library is closed for three months?

come on now, thats what was truly intended with the comment!

FluffPiece · 05-04-2021 11:04am

Most librarians I know of were redeployed to man the county help / advise centers doing stuff such as coordinating between various volunteer groups / community wardens / community garda to ensure deliveries of essential supplies to those who were vulnerable / self isolating with no way of getting stuff such as groceries, medicines etc

Since some of them re-opened, they have been at a lower level of staff to try organise a safe way to operate their libraries with social distancing etc taken into account, bear in mind some libraries are only manned by a single person at times.

EDIT: I am not a librarian nor do I work in the library services.

05-04-2021 11:05am

Im at least as interested in teds inlaws

If we are all entitled to demand details lets have those again

Or a walkback on the claims

Dav010 · 05-04-2021 11:15am

FluffPiece wrote: »

Since some of them re-opened, they have been at a lower level of staff to try organise a safe way to operate their libraries with social distancing etc taken into account, bear in mind some libraries are only manned by a single person at times.

EDIT: I am not a librarian nor do I work in the library services.

Have any libraries reopened to the public?

Wanderer78 · 05-04-2021 11:18am

Dav010 wrote: »

Have any libraries reopened to the public?

think theres delivery services available with some, and some online services

am_zarathustra · 05-04-2021 11:18am

ted1 wrote: »

No it’s not,
It was 85k in 2011: https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-a-startling-array-of-perks-on-offer-for-esb-staff-26767643.html
In 2016 it was down to 62: https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/esb-pay-rise-2716701-Apr2016/%3famp=1
In 2021 it’s 48k: https://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Employer=ESB/Salary

Show me another organisation with such a drop

You are comparing averages compiled from actual pay across the organisation with a scattershot website primarily geared towards entrance jobs. Ask your mathematically inclined family members to explain the issues there.

Fine cherry picking though

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/facebook-ireland-staff-coin-it-as-average-pay-reaches-154-000-1.3714642

So 2018 it was 77. Again this is actually the average of the company not a random selection of advertised jobs conglomerated. Can't find 2019 from a reputable source and 2020 wouldn't be out yet.

OwaynOTT · 05-04-2021 11:22am

Among other stuff, I have been working with schools a lot in this time.
We have allocated literacy apps to almost 300 primary school students who were struggling with literacy due to school closures or due to conditions such as dyslexia.
The feedback from schools and parents is enough to make me believe we are doing much needed and appreciated work.
I’m not going to go through everything we are doing as it’s a bank holiday and I want to enjoy my time off by completing my college work.

Public service pay cut?

Comments