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Two adult brothers in a relationship

245

Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    Dave0301 wrote: »
    No I wouldn't be happy about it, but me being disgusted about it is hardly justification. There are plenty of parents disgusted by their homosexual children but that doesn't make it wrong to be homosexual.

    Parents disgusted by their children's homosexual relations are bigoted and living in the stone age.

    As for the part in bold, in this context it is correct but you can't apply that logic to all aspects and walks of life. Say for example "There are plenty of parents disgusted by their racist children but that doesn't make it wrong to be racist." Using the same logic that you applied to homosexuality doesn't apply to racism.

    Or another "There are plenty of parents disgusted by their rapist children but that doesn't make it wrong to be a rapist." Again there is a failure using this logic with regards to this context. The same can be said for incest.

    Nothing wrong with the logic, being disgusted by rape doesn't make it wrong. What makes rape wrong is the violation of another person's body.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    Thinking its disgusting is one thing, but do you think it's wrong?

    "wrong" is a very loose word to be throwing about with this. I still think it's disgusting and definitely not for me, but no, technically I don't think it's "wrong" if it's consensual and both are of the right age. Doesn't exactly make it right either though


  • Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭cassi


    Every time I see a thread started by scanlas I know it's gonna be some f'd up shiz!

    It's wrong because If two brothers, that grew up together and formed a bothers bond, started a relationship it would probably point to deep seeded emotional neglect and abuse. While its harming nobody else, it's gonna harm the people involved. They would actually already be harmed. It's well accepted that people who don't form functional adult relationships either physical or not, have been the victims of abuse as children. That's why it would worry me!


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 24,005 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Physically it would be difficult to have a problem with it, after all there wouldn't be any children to suffer from potentially damaged DNA. Psychology it would be easy to have a problem, genetically we are programmed to be attracted to people from our own family and to recognize them as someone to trust, by have a relationship with an immediate family member you are simply taking advantage of immediate environmental and genetic attractions. I believe there have been cases where people have been in relationships with each other and then discover that they were brother and sisters who were put up for adoption or twins who were separated and stuff.

    There is also the social stigmatism attached to it, I would like to think that being in a homosexual relationship in Ireland wouldn't be a problem anymore for society, but I think there would be a big issue with cousins being in a relationship with each other, I don't think socially anyone would accept brothers or sisters.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭bleepp


    Its disgusting...end of


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    He ain't heavy.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Cassidy28


    He ain't heavy.....

    He's my brother


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    tbh, like a lot people, my acceptance of the various types of sexuality is on the basis that what consenting adults do with each other is none of my damn business. On those grounds I'd be a hypocrite to have a problem with this, in theory.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    Bambi wrote: »
    tbh, like a lot people, my acceptance of the various types of sexuality is on the basis that what consenting adults do with each other is none of my damn business. On those grounds I'd be a hypocrite to have a problem with this, in theory.

    Yes, "consenting adults." Incest by it's nature brings question to the idea that two siblings can properly consent.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,824 ✭✭✭floggg


    If there are two healthy, well adjusted brothers above the age of consent and with sufficient mental capacity to both fully consent to their actions and do so free from any underlying issues or disorders which might impair their ability to form healthy relationships, then while I would find it strange, I can't see any reason why I should stop them or intervene.

    Of course, barring the almost statistically impossible case of two non-identical twins (or blind identical twins) who happen to both by gay and be separated at birth only to find each other as adults and fall in love before learning they are in fact siblings, I would struggle to think of any circumstances where two healthy, well adjusted brothers above the age of consent and with sufficient mental capacity to both fully consent to their actions and do so free from any underlying issues or disorders which might impair their ability to form healthy relationships would actually engage in incest.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,933 ✭✭✭holystungun9


    Imagine bringing him home to meet the parents!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Do you think it's wrong?

    If so why?

    I can't think of a legitimate reason why it shouldn't be allowed. So long as they aren't harming anyone good luck to them. Now the thought of it somewhat turns my stomach, but that is hardly justification to forbid two brothers from being together.

    WTF?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭Carlos_Ray


    Sometimes you just know something is wrong. You don't need to articulate reasons why because its so inherently disturbing and depraved that it goes without saying.

    Why did you pick two brothers as an example? Why not a father and son? Mother and daughter? If you require more than your gut feeling to tell you that any of these are seriously wrong then I suggest you seek help.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,147 ✭✭✭PizzamanIRL


    Do you think it's wrong?

    If so why?

    I can't think of a legitimate reason why it shouldn't be allowed. So long as they aren't harming anyone good luck to them. Now the thought of it somewhat turns my stomach, but that is hardly justification to forbid two brothers from being together.

    What does Scanlas The 1st think about it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 969 ✭✭✭some random drunk


    The Op is missing a news article....so here's one:
    Gay porn’s most shocking taboo

    Based on their YouTube channel, Elijah and Milo Peters just seem like your average, slightly awkward Czech teenage twins. They enjoy role-playing games and steak. They like frolicking around on the beach in their elaborately patterned underwear and taunting each other while bodybuilding. (“Hey you lazy-ee boy! Put some weight on eet!”) But the Peters twins aren’t quite as innocent as their goofy grins and adorable accents suggest.


    Over the past few months, they have become two of the most controversial performers to hit the gay porn world in a very long time. That’s because they’re willing to break a taboo that, even in an industry that thrives on extremes, is too extreme for many: twin incest (or, more succinctly, twincest). While the concept of twin performers is not new to the gay porn world, the Peters twins are notable both because of the extent of their popularity and the things they are willing to do with each other on camera. They French kiss; they perform oral sex on each other; they have anal sex; and most shockingly of all, they do it in a tender and romantic way.


    “My brother is my boyfriend, and I am his boyfriend,” says one of the twins during a phone call from Prague (Elijah and Milo sound so much alike on the phone it is impossible to tell which one is speaking). “He is my lifeblood, and he is my only love.”
    For some reason the idea of them having a romantic relationship together seems more creepy to me than the actual making porn together.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Lyaiera wrote: »
    Yes, "consenting adults." Incest by it's nature brings question to the idea that two siblings can properly consent.

    what in it's nature brings into question that both parties are of sound mind?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    What does Scanlas The 1st think about it?

    He's too busy getting it from Scanlas the 2nd to even think about anything else


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    ************ Clean Joke Alert ***************

    I believe their favourite album of all time was
    Brothers in (each other's) arms


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭Medusa22


    If they are both consenting adults with no history of abuse/neglect/mental disorders then I don't see why it should be illegal. Personally it makes me feel disgusted and uneasy but that isn't a reason for incest to be illegal. Apparently people who grow up together usually have a sort of sexual imprinting that prevents them from finding each other attractive though. If the relatives grew up together I would wonder if there was some sort of abuse involved. Relatives that have been reunited in later life often seem to form strangely intense sexual relationships (genetic sexual attraction), such as a brother and a sister. I really don't have a problem with this because these people never met and it seems to be a overwhelming feeling for them, I don't think a sexual relationship should be illegal especially in this sense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    syndeyfife wrote: »
    I can't even watch porn with female twins in it, just creeps me out big time.

    Now. THAT'S wrong. That you find something wrong with that.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    Would their babies not have genetic defects.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    Carlos_Ray wrote: »
    Sometimes you just know something is wrong. You don't need to articulate reasons why because its so inherently disturbing and depraved that it goes without saying.

    Why did you pick two brothers as an example? Why not a father and son? Mother and daughter? If you require more than your gut feeling to tell you that any of these are seriously wrong then I suggest you seek help.

    It dangerous territory to go by your gut feeling alone, many people's gut feeling tells them homosexuality is very wrong, do that can't be enough of a reason. There has to be reasoning behind it to avoid bigotry and discrimination.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    I'd say it could cause a bit of friction in the family .........


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    It dangerous territory to go by your gut feeling alone, many people's gut feeling tells them homosexuality is very wrong, do that can't be enough of a reason. There has to be reasoning behind it to avoid bigotry and discrimination.

    Why do you keep linking up homosexuality and incest?

    Anyway, this is a stupid thread and you've already had your argument in another one. I actually hate getting into these sort of long pointless gay threads because I couldn't give a shit about my sexuality and I'm not one for debating it, so I made my point, I'm out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    Bambi wrote: »
    what in it's nature brings into question that both parties are of sound mind?

    As I've already said the idea that they're siblings means there's questions over abuse, trauma and unhealthy relationships within the family.

    And as someone else pointed out there's a huge amount of siblings who were separated at birth or childhood ending up together after finding each other in adulthood but before finding out they're related. Most evidence for this is where there has been difficulty conceiving or when a child has been born with genetic disease due to both parents (naturally) carrying dormant genes for the genetic disease. This points to some idea of attraction between people with the same parent existing on a genetic, subconcious level.

    In the people separated at birth case I have no problems with them forming relationships (as abuse is unlikely.) I would like if they were both DNA tested before conceiving because the likelihood of having a child with a disease is higher. However, that's not because of the way inbreeding causes deformities, that actually happens a lot further down the line of intra-family breeding and is more likely to occur with cousins than siblings (there's been studies on this but I've lost my database access now I've finished Uni.) All this however is quite improbable in a modern society unless a specific strategy of eugenic type breeding has been followed. The reason for DNA testing is just because there's a higher chance that both parents carry dormant genes and there's quite a lot of diseases that occur if a man and woman unaffected by the disease but carrying the gene conceive.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    1ZRed wrote: »
    It dangerous territory to go by your gut feeling alone, many people's gut feeling tells them homosexuality is very wrong, do that can't be enough of a reason. There has to be reasoning behind it to avoid bigotry and discrimination.

    Why do you keep linking up homosexuality and incest?

    It's a convenient example whereby " gut feelings" have caused people to be persecuted and ostracised.

    Interracial marriage would be another example. I'm sure there are many who "just feel" it is wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    It's a convenient example whereby " gut feelings" have caused people to be persecuted and ostracised.

    Interracial marriage would be another example. I'm sure there are many who "just feel" it is wrong.

    It's also a common tactic fundamentalist religious nutjobs in America use against equal rights for homosexual people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    This post has been deleted.


  • Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Are some people purposely reading the opposite of what Scanlas is saying? He's said he doesn't oppose homosexuality, nor oppose his specific example of incest. How is that an argument against homosexuality?

    Some people in this thread will look for any reason to get offended.

    And to answer Scanlas' question:

    If both individuals are of sound mind, if neither one groomed the other during childhood (which is a valid argument against parent-child incest), and neither were themselves subjected to sexual abuse during childhood, then I can see no basis for objection. I might find it absolutely disgusting, but my own, personal feelings on something are not a valid basis for objecting it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,058 ✭✭✭✭Abi


    darced wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    You then have to question why incest is wrong in the first place. We know it can cause genetic defects in opposite gender couples if they have children. Even if a same sex incestuous couple cannot procreate, the fact that it is incest it is automatically ear marked as wrong.

    Homophobic people probably have the same view on homosexuals, ie they can but they shouldn't.

    Go for it Scanlas! We judge you not.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    gvn wrote: »
    Are some people purposely reading the opposite of what Scanlas is saying? He's said he doesn't oppose homosexuality, nor oppose his specific example of incest. How is that an argument against homosexuality?

    Some people in this thread will look for any reason to get offended.

    And to answer Scanlas' question:

    If both individuals are of sound mind, if neither one groomed the other during childhood (which is a valid argument against parent-child incest), and neither were themselves subjected to sexual abuse during childhood, then I can see no basis for objection. I might find it absolutely disgusting, but my own, personal feelings on something are not a valid basis for objecting it.

    Well done for saying that. Its not a popular opinion so I'll be the first (and perhaps only) to back you up on it :D



    Btw, I am also disgusted by it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Do you think it's wrong?

    If so why?

    I can't think of a legitimate reason why it shouldn't be allowed. So long as they aren't harming anyone good luck to them. Now the thought of it somewhat turns my stomach, but that is hardly justification to forbid two brothers from being together.
    I'm have nothing against homosexuality, if you want to enlighten me why two brothers in a relationship is wrong work away?

    What a bizarre question to put up on a public forum.


  • Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭Vicar in a tutu


    Actually nearly offed myself laughing thinking about if my brothers got into a relationship with eachother :pac:

    Whatever makes you happy I suppose:confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Cassidy28


    Some very strange people around.


  • Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭Vicar in a tutu


    How would they even decide they were in love?! Least they wouldnt have to put up with inlaws I suppose??:confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Lyaiera wrote: »
    As I've already said the idea that they're XYZ means there's questions over abuse, trauma and unhealthy relationships within the family.
    People used to make that argument about any non heterosexual relationship right up into the 90's.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Lyaiera wrote: »
    I would like if they were both DNA tested before conceiving because the likelihood of having a child with a disease is higher. .

    The likelihood of two brothers having a kid together is gonna fall at the first fence so never mind your DNA testing


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭marshbaboon


    Personally I don't see anything wrong with it...

    ... neither does my brother.


  • Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Coraline Juicy Snobbery


    Lyaiera wrote: »
    If they were long lost brothers who found each other in their twenties and got in a relationship I wouldn't have a problem with it. If they were brothers who grew up together then I would. There's far too much of a likelihood that their relationship is predicated on some form of abuse or emotional neglect.
    This totally sums it up for me


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    This is one of those thing where I can't logically give a reason against to legally forbid it, however I wouldn't 'accept' it e.g something like the 50 year old going out with a 17??? year old, legally ok, morally and socially dubious IMO.

    Genuine question, does that effect (which I can;t remember the proper name for) that discourages incest have a similar effect on same sex relations


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    What are yis all on about. It's wrong full stop. For the people who are justifying or rationalising it. Your telling yourselves that you find yet sisters attractive as well. Ugh.


  • Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Coraline Juicy Snobbery


    Oh, it's wrong full stop because a stranger on the internet said so

    I guess that's sorted then


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,128 ✭✭✭✭aaronjumper


    I leave Boards alone for a week or two and look what happens.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    cursai wrote: »
    Your telling yourselves that you find yet sisters attractive as well.

    Well.... yeah. Just not mine.


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  • Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Coraline Juicy Snobbery


    hey look! somebody's attractive cousin!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    OP the question raises more questions about your mindset than it does about the topic. Ok you can see no wrong with it but why are you even thinking like that? You seem like a pretty disturbed person.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT!

    But I hate the idea of anyone being happy, so this is to be expected.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    If it were my brothers then I'd have a problem with it... can't deny that I would. It just wouldn't sit right with me at all and I don't think I could accept it. For one thing, it would have a huge fallout for the entire family, not just those involved. If one of my brothers was gay I certainly wouldn't have an issue with it, but that's not going to affect the family as a whole in the same way that an incestuous relationship of any kind would.

    I know people will say that what 2 consenting adults do is their own business and nobody elses, but that's a bit simplistic when you're talking about something like incest. Others would get dragged into it and be forced to make decisions and sacrifices which shouldn't be expected of them just in order to prop up the relationship of another.


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