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2020 EV Scrappage scheme

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    #62
    26000 Elephants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭26000 Elephants


    kceire wrote: »
    Developers wont put it in as its an additional cost.

    Developers will simply price it in, there is no issue from that perspective.

    The issue is that in the current housing crisis, the additional requirement to support EV's will put extra price pressure on an already pressured market. And for who? Should those who choose to use public transport/ride sharing/Go Cars be forced to pay for this extra infrastructure as well?

    Is it not a bit worrying that we have already scheduled the banning of petrol/diesel cars yet we still haven't a clear strategy to support EV's?


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    #63
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    26000 Elephants wrote: »
    Developers will simply price it in, there is no issue from that perspective.

    When it becomes mandatory as part of the Planning conditions or Building Regulations, they will price it in of course, there's no issue then.

    But now, right now on the ground, they will not put it in at all. I am involved in the regulatory side of Construction and i'm on different sites every day dealing with these developers, and they simply wont put it in currently.

    I've even pointed out that the correct RCBO, cabling to an external terminal would save the house holder multiples of the base cost in a year or as they wont have to route the cable back to the Consumer Unit, but no interest.


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    #64
    alfaromeo84
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭alfaromeo84


    If a mobile phone can be charged wirelessly, could EV's not be too


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    #65
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    alfaromeo84 wrote: »
    If a mobile phone can be charged wirelessly, could EV's not be too

    Technically yes, but the technology is very lossy. Also, the futher the antenna is from the charging base the less power that can be transmitted. For a car, you'd be outputting a lot of electricity with only a relatively small amount actually charging the car so probably isn't worth it.


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    #66
    26000 Elephants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭26000 Elephants


    kceire wrote: »
    But now, right now on the ground, they will not put it in at all. I am involved in the regulatory side of Construction and i'm on different sites every day dealing with these developers, and they simply wont put it in currently.

    I've yet to meet a developer who wont do something where he can add a profit to the price! I imagine the resistance is more due to the planning and installation complexities involved and the difficulty in recovering the cost where there is low demand. Pragmatically, however, it needs to be the responsibility of the EV owner.
    I've even pointed out that the correct RCBO, cabling to an external terminal would save the house holder multiples of the base cost in a year or as they wont have to route the cable back to the Consumer Unit, but no interest.

    Actually that makes more sense - gives people the option later, with lower up front costs for purchasers.


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    #67
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,507 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Today, there is a 2000 MW difference between demand in the night and daytime demand. With domestic charging and a modicum of smart metering which would ensure that charging took place between 01:00 and 05:00 then this 2000 MW could be used without any extra capacity on the grid. That would charge a fair few yokes.


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    #68
    samih
    Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭samih


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    Today, there is a 2000 MW difference between demand in the night and daytime demand. With domestic charging and a modicum of smart metering which would ensure that charging took place between 01:00 and 05:00 then this 2000 MW could be used without any extra capacity on the grid. That would charge a fair few yokes.

    That's 270000 cars simultaneously charging at 7.4 kW each (which is at the high end of what a typical house can currently support). If they on average traveled 100 km a day charging would take 2 hours per car so up to 540000 cars could be charged overnight with smart metering.


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    #69
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    mcbert wrote: »
    I've been wondering about this. Where did you get this number? I'm really wondering the median end-of-life/scrappage age of cars here? Always assumed it was around 10-11yrs but it must be some years longer if the average is 8.2...
    Google. Here's one link that gives some historical context.

    https://www.completecar.ie/car-news/article/8864/Average-age-of-Irish-cars-is-falling


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    #70
    26000 Elephants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭26000 Elephants


    samih wrote: »
    That's 270000 cars simultaneously charging at 7.4 kW each (which is at the high end of what a typical house can currently support). If they on average traveled 100 km a day charging would take 2 hours per car so up to 540000 cars could be charged overnight with smart metering.

    At 7.4kW a Hyundai Kona takes 5.2 hours to charge enough to cover 100km (39kw)

    Where are you getting your figures from?

    For clarity, Ive used this


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    #71
    samih
    Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭samih


    26000 Elephants wrote: »
    At 7.4kW a Hyundai Kona takes 5.2 hours to charge enough to cover 100km (39kw)

    Where are you getting your figures from?

    For clarity, Ive used this

    In 5.2 hours the car in theory is able to charge for (37 kWh - inefficiencies) so say 34 kWh. As the car is rated at about 15 kWh/100 km that is roughly 225 km of range charged in the timeframe. Not sure where the link you posted get their numbers from but they are incorrect.

    Edit: i used the link you supplied and I came up with these values which pretty much confirm what I just posted (they are a bit better but not attainable in real life I think). For pricing just convert the pence and pound to cent and euro as I used the price it would cost using my night time rate 8c/kWh. 180 miles is about 280 kilometers.

    HYUNDAI KONA Electric
    5.6 hrs
    Your charging time
    39 kWh
    kWh added
    180 miles
    Miles added
    £3.12
    Your charge cost
    1.7p
    Cost per mile


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    #72
    26000 Elephants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭26000 Elephants


    samih wrote: »
    Not sure where the link you posted get their numbers from but they are incorrect.

    Yeah, you are right, i checked here.

    I think i set the range (60 miles - 100km) as a target in the earlier link, it obviously just threw back 5.6 hours as a default for max charging.


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    #73
    cournioni
    Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,739 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    Irishphotodesk wrote: »
    Why not create kinetic roads and ensure cars are adapted to benefit from the kinetic energy created, any surplus could go into the national grid.

    Even if we did it for motorways a lot of EVs would be charged while travelling.

    We are derailing the original thread... I'm open to a scrappage scheme in 2020 for EVs but it would need to really make the purchase affordable.
    We can barely maintain the roads we have at the moment, never mind building kinetic roads. :D


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