2020 EV Scrappage scheme

Muahahaha

Its looking like the Govt. are going to introduce a scrappage scheme (similar to the one in the 1990's) in 2020. If it goes ahead it will apply to petrols and diesels being scrapped in favour of electric.

Its unclear as yet what the financial incentive will be from the Govt. but it will come on top of other incentives already available such as VW offering up to €5k to go electric.

Might be wise for anyone considering buying a new car to hold off until the full details and T&Cs are available. The scheme itself isn't yet confirmed but has been recommended by the climate action committee in the Dail and it is expected it will be acted upon.

biko

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/new-scrappage-plan-to-lure-motorists-away-from-petrol-and-diesel-cars-37903581.html

March 12 2019 2:30 AM
A scrappage scheme aimed at getting motorists to switch from petrol and diesel cars to electric vehicles should be explored as part of the State's bid to tackle climate change, TDs and Senators says.

A draft report by a cross-party group of politicians has been probing how the Government can encourage people to reduce their carbon footprint.

There has been disagreement over proposals for carbon tax, but a scrappage scheme is believed to have widespread support among members of the Joint Committee on Climate Action.

antodeco

In that government report it says "Also on transport, the plan is expected to confirm that the sale of new petrol and diesel cars will be banned from the year 2030. It is also proposing to stop granting NCT certificates for petrol and diesel cars from 2045 effectively removing them from our roads by that date"

Whoever wrote that piece assumes that cars without an NCT dont exist. I wonder what that will mean for any classic car owners at that stage.

Muahahaha

antodeco wrote: »

Whoever wrote that piece assumes that cars without an NCT dont exist. I wonder what that will mean for any classic car owners at that stage.

There would have to be a derogation for classic cars, they couldnt just shut down that market overnight.

That said if all diesels and petrols are being phased out then getting petrol to actually run a CC might become fairly difficult as petrol stations close down. That plan is 26 years away though, a long time off.

antodeco

Muahahaha wrote: »

There would have to be a derogation for classic cars, they couldnt just shut down that market overnight.

That said if all diesels and petrols are being phased out then getting petrol to actually run a CC might become fairly difficult as petrol stations close down. That plan is 26 years away though, a long time off.

Might be a case of having a home heating tank turned into a normal petrol tank for the hobby! But I agree, 26 years is a long way away. One of mine would be 68 years old by then! Ill probably have to worry about the zombie alien invasion before then!

Nikki Sixx

The government ****e on about a lot of things. Including broadband in every home.

Isambard

Muahahaha wrote: »

There would have to be a derogation for classic cars, they couldnt just shut down that market overnight.

That said if all diesels and petrols are being phased out then getting petrol to actually run a CC might become fairly difficult as petrol stations close down. That plan is 26 years away though, a long time off.

there already is. Classic cars over 40 years old are exempt. Whether cars survive long enough to become exempt is another matter

Muahahaha

antodeco wrote: »

Might be a case of having a home heating tank turned into a normal petrol tank for the hobby! But I agree, 26 years is a long way away. One of mine would be 68 years old by then! Ill probably have to worry about the zombie alien invasion before then!

By 2045 you'll have added wings and a flying kit to your classic car and then you can just land at the airport and fill up with aviation fuel :pac:

As an aside, can anyone remember the value of the 1990s scrapage scheme? iirc it was IR£3,000 off the price of a new car when getting a 10 year old scraped. With inflation and change to the euro we'd need any new scrapage scheme to be at the level of €6,000 or so to make it worthwhile.

Phileas Frog

Cars older than 40 years are NCT exempt

antodeco

Phileas Frog wrote: »

Cars older than 40 years are NCT exempt

I know (I have several myself). However, in the article it says that NCTs will not be given to petrols or diesels anymore, effectively making them disappear

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

....

As an aside, can anyone remember the value of the 1990s scrapage scheme? iirc it was IR£3,000 off the price of a new car when getting a 10 year old scraped. With inflation and change to the euro we'd need any new scrapage scheme to be at the level of €6,000 or so to make it worthwhile.

Was 1k.... Most manufacturers matched it iirc. Except Fiat

Atlantic Dawn

Sounds like a dumb idea to scrap perfectly good cars to have a new one built in its place at €30k plus and the cost in emissions and resources to build it.

Residual values shall be hit....Im glad I bought with the intention of keeping the Sorento 5 to 8 years.

I imagine it'll be harder for garages to shift ICE stuff now too maybe.

Loony really but sure such is life.

Duke O Smiley

antodeco wrote: »

I know (I have several myself). However, in the article it says that NCTs will not be given to petrols or diesels anymore, effectively making them disappear

Not even the UK are proposing something that harsh. Never in a million years will little Leo or anyone who follows him subsequently be allowed pull off something like that

Not if the Healy-Rae's can do something about it either

If you can't buy one new from 2030 no nct from 2045 isn't the end of the world.
Throw in a classic exemption and most will be OK

I wonder will this have an immediate effect.... A scrappage scheme will cost the exchequer a few quid. Whatabout the homeless etc etc.

Muahahaha

Augeo wrote: »

I wonder will this have an immediate effect.... A scrappage scheme will cost the exchequer a few quid. Whatabout the homeless etc etc.

I would more see it as them just taking a small hit on the huge taxation they already gather through car sales. Open to correction but between VAT, VRT and excise isnt about 50-55% of the price of a new car taxation for the exchequer? So if they offer a €6k grant on a 30k car they are still taxing it at around the 40%-45% level

EVs are already low in tax take compared to ICE.

Nikki Sixx

Augeo wrote: »

If you can't buy one new from 2030 no nct from 2045 isn't the end of the world.
Throw in a classic exemption and most will be OK

I wonder will this have an immediate effect.... A scrappage scheme will cost the exchequer a few quid. Whatabout the homeless etc etc.

You are right there are bigger issues to tackle like homelessness. But the government will go for the headline grabbing and trendy decision. I can see huge changes made in the next two or three budgets. Politicians are just flying a kite here, seeing what the public mood is like. With the surge in support for the Green Party, Leo sees a chance to jump on the climate change bandwagon.

bazz26

And they already have grants.

bazz26

Climate Change = buzzword for introduction of new taxes. A government's wet dream.

kyote00

They have probably stalled the EV market also in the short term....why buy now and not wait until whatever grants are available

The last great green idea they had inflicted fleets of stinking diesels across the country....

Nikki Sixx

kyote00 wrote: »

They have probably stalled the EV market also in the short term....why buy now and not wait until whatever grants are available

The last great green idea they had inflicted fleets of stinking diesels across the country....

I think a lot of people are holding out for better batteries with a longer range and more charging points. At the moment the country couldn’t sustain even a quarter of the population driving electric vehicles.

Notch000

there is already a massive shortage of precious metals for eV batteries, where they are planning on finding supply for hundreds of millions more in anyones guess (world supply not just Ireland). The EV are totally over priced compared to the IC engines. Batteries aside they are much easier to build & assemble than traditional ICs.

samih

Notch000 wrote: »

there is already a massive shortage of precious metals for eV batteries, where they are planning on finding supply for hundreds of millions more in anyones guess (world supply not just Ireland). The EV are totally over priced compared to the IC engines. Batteries aside they are much easier to build & assemble than traditional ICs.

There are no precious metals in the batteries and no shortage of materials used. The state of the art Li-ion NCM batteries have 8:1:1 ratio of Nickel, Cobalt, Manganese in their cathode and Lithium salts in their anode in a graphite layer. The rest is mainly made of Aluminium body and some polymer as the separator between the anode and cathode.

The Cobalt is the only mineral there that is potentially short in supply but even that is readily available where other metals like Zinc and Copper are currenlty mined. Just that until now there have been not enough demand to actually process it. This is obviously changing now as demand is suddenly there. "When reserves are getting low just dig out more holes in the ground to find more reserves."

Also the battery chemistries are changing all the time and the latest cells have fraction of Co per kWh compared to old generations and if we really eventually run out the battery makers will just develop a chemistries that don't rely on Co.

Edit: And as my signature confirms I agree with you about the current prices. But this will change soon enough when the electric cars become the norm. The manufacturers will need to compete against each other like now with conventional cars.

Gumbo

Nikki Sixx wrote: »

I think a lot of people are holding out for better batteries with a longer range and more charging points. At the moment the country couldn’t sustain even a quarter of the population driving electric vehicles.

Current crop of cars do 450km and you should be charging at home over night in my opinion.

Del2005

kceire wrote: »

you should be charging at home over night in my opinion.

Not much use for people who don't have a driveway and paying a premium, compared night rate for people who can charge at home, to use the public network won't incentivise them to buy one.

Gumbo

Del2005 wrote: »

Not much use for people who don't have a driveway and paying a premium, compared night rate for people who can charge at home, to use the public network won't incentivise them to buy one.

I agree, if you look at my other posts on this, i'm defending people in apartments and town houses.

Apartment developments with basement and designated car parking is possible. Each spot has to to be ran back to the apartment meter, which sometimes is in the basement. Its work alright, but ive had it done before.
Hard part is forcing Management Company approval.

Town houses are possible too, but it involves excavating the ground to lay the cables in order to put a charging post in or close to the spot. It could be streamlined if every spot was done at the same time.

Ive also had to go through the Planning process for some people in this regard.

kceire

kceire wrote: »

..............

Apartment developments with ..........designated car parking is possible. ..........

Town houses are possible too, but it involves excavating the ground to lay the cables in order to put a charging post in or close to the spot. It could be streamlined if every spot was done at the same time............

I made the point at our AGM last year that installing charging points for the designated spots is not much more disruptive then what Irish water did to install the water meters in our complex.
Cost would vary house to house of course.......... my spot is about 3m from the my metre so not too bad for me. Some folk would be 3 or 4 times that though.

samih

kceire wrote: »

I agree, if you look at my other posts on this, i'm defending people in apartments and town houses.

Apartment developments with basement and designated car parking is possible. Each spot has to to be ran back to the apartment meter, which sometimes is in the basement. Its work alright, but ive had it done before.
Hard part is forcing Management Company approval.

Town houses are possible too, but it involves excavating the ground to lay the cables in order to put a charging post in or close to the spot. It could be streamlined if every spot was done at the same time.

Ive also had to go through the Planning process for some people in this regard.

Here is where the government will need to work with building and infrastructure experts to bring out legislation guaranteeing access to charging where possible. Not every cable need to termitate to your own meter in the future. It's enough just to have a smart charger connected to power and then authentication and bill sent to the owner. And the owner of the power supply reimbursed for the electricity used.

Ecars originally wanted to bill your public charging with your house electricity bill which would be a great system tbh. Maybe some power company will adopt the idea going forward. Would be great for shared chargers in an apartment or street for example.

Del2005

kceire wrote: »

I agree, if you look at my other posts on this, i'm defending people in apartments and town houses.

Apartment developments with basement and designated car parking is possible. Each spot has to to be ran back to the apartment meter, which sometimes is in the basement. Its work alright, but ive had it done before.
Hard part is forcing Management Company approval.

Town houses are possible too, but it involves excavating the ground to lay the cables in order to put a charging post in or close to the spot. It could be streamlined if every spot was done at the same time.

Ive also had to go through the Planning process for some people in this regard.

What about developments with unassigned parking? Also to do it properly the whole development should be done at once and that would involve agreement at the AGM and then an increased maintenance charge to cover it, the sinking fund isn't for this. How many developments will manage this.

The simple solution would be to allow people in MUDs to use their domestic rates for changing regardless of where they charge, digging up every MUD to run thousands of km of cables isn't very environmentally friendly!, and people not in MUDs pay the premium rate when away from their driveway.

26000 Elephants

you should be charging at home over night in my opinion.

Where's all this electricity coming from? Were there detailed plans of how all the extra power is being generated, what carbon impact it will have and where the investment is coming from?

Quick back of envelope calculations on the amount of diesel and petrol used in Ireland every year and the amount of KW/h power required to replace it make unclear how it will be achieved in the time frame given.