Biochar and natural farming

Say my name · 04-04-2019 11:17pm

This is a very interesting interview with Mike McGolden of Coaltec USA.
He goes into how he has set up a plant on a pig farm in Holland due to their regulations on slurry.
And in the end comparing the cost of transport of phosphorus and nutrients in slurry compared to char.
He goes into how wood only producers have to get a high price for their char as it's the only product but other industries can take a waste and get cost efficiencies from that waste and then hopefully a premium product so doubly effective at staying solvent.

https://m.soundcloud.com/farm-to-taber-podcast/26-mike-mcgolden-part-2

Coaltec energy USA.
http://www.coaltecenergy.com/

Say my name · 10-04-2019 1:38pm

Right on the natural farming side of things.
This is the craic I'm currently at.

Making my own humic acid/ seaweed juice.

I'll half fill an ibc tank with seaweed and the rest with well water and start using the mixture every 10 days or so for the year. Either to be sprayed on the grassland or let into the slurry tank. Hopefully I'll have enough seaweed for 4 ibc tanks.

Rinsing off the sand before it goes in the tank.

And an ibc and in the ibc tank.

Rest of the job is to continue filling and then top up with water.

*Before anyone asks. It was got in international waters. :cool:

_Brian · 10-04-2019 2:07pm

Say my name wrote: »

Right on the natural farming side of things.
This is the craic I'm currently at.

Making my own humic acid/ seaweed juice.

I'll half fill an ibc tank with seaweed and the rest with well water and start using the mixture every 10 days or so for the year. Either to be sprayed on the grassland or let into the slurry tank. Hopefully I'll have enough seaweed for 4 ibc tanks.

Rinsing off the sand before it goes in the tank.

And an ibc and in the ibc tank.

Rest of the job is to continue filling and then top up with water.

*Before anyone asks. It was got in international waters. :cool:

Wow, what are the results like.
Is this aerated or just left stew ??

Is it like the activated compost tea I’ve read about ??

Say my name · 10-04-2019 2:26pm

_Brian wrote: »

Wow, what are the results like.
Is this aerated or just left stew ??

Is it like the activated compost tea I’ve read about ??

It will be left stew.
From what I've read and even just by entering "seaweed" on boards here people get on well with it this way.

Hopefully if I get it made, the plan down the road will be to use it for quenching biochar in a kon-tiki kiln.
But for now it'll do this way.

I contacted a company about how they processed their commercial seaweed foliar spray (which I used before) and they never came back to me. So that had a major influence on this development.

There's a poster on thefarmingforum using seaweed this way and mixing with biochar before feeding to sheep. So it's nothing that hasn't been done before.

It's something to pass the time anyway!

_Brian · 10-04-2019 4:35pm

Say my name wrote: »

It will be left stew.
From what I've read and even just by entering "seaweed" on boards here people get on well with it this way.

Hopefully if I get it made, the plan down the road will be to use it for quenching biochar in a kon-tiki kiln.
But for now it'll do this way.

I contacted a company about how they processed their commercial seaweed foliar spray (which I used before) and they never came back to me. So that had a major influence on this development.

There's a poster on thefarmingforum using seaweed this way and mixing with biochar before feeding to sheep. So it's nothing that hasn't been done before.

It's something to pass the time anyway!

You should look up compost tea and the sites, some interesting stuff with claims of good results.

Say my name · 10-04-2019 7:23pm

_Brian wrote: »

You should look up compost tea and the sites, some interesting stuff with claims of good results.

I've briefly looked at it.
Tbh it's hard to have time to do all these yokes. At least with what I'm doing now I'm just bunging it into a container and leaving it. Taking some liquid out when I want it and topping up again.
I think I'll throw some young nettles in as well. For the craic.

There's worm casting and farming too and a multitude more different types of "sustainable" farming methods. It's all a large rabbit hole nearly too big for this small fella.

Edit: just found out on the web, undiluted nettle fertilizer can be used as a herbicide.

Say my name · 11-04-2019 8:32pm

Here's a link to a book review website that has an excerpt from a new Biochar book.
It's called Burn. Using fire to cool the Earth.

https://inthebooks.800ceoread.com/excerpts/articles/burn

Included in it is about a man feeding it to cattle and growing avocados.
New cash crop for this country to feed D4.

Say my name · 27-04-2019 10:22pm

This article deserves to be in this thread for nothing more than the percentages of stabilizing soil carbon it quotes and the links it gives too. Oh the methods of Biochar production are good too.
Interesting article.

https://rodaleinstitute.org/blog/whats-biochar-how-to-stabilize-carbon-in-your-soil/

Hmmm soil carbon..

Say my name · 22-05-2019 9:42pm

An Estonian farmer driving a Belarus tractor simply making biochar.

https://youtu.be/k12sH-Z92w8

Edit: Did someone once post that charcoal is worth €400/ton?

Say my name · 25-05-2019 11:50pm

I think this is the first paper that paves the way to understanding how biochar primes the soil for carbon sequestration.
Basically saying it makes for a more diverse soil life and actually more of the bacteria and fungi.
Life lives. Life dies. Life turns to carbon.

https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-019-0693-7

Dinzee Conlee · 26-05-2019 11:35am

Right Say...

So I watched that video of the lad in Estonia make biochar. When and how is it spread afterwards?

I’d have a lot that kinda small light timber that really only gets thrown in the ditch, so I might make a go of making it into biochar...

So if a lad was to do this, on a very small scale, how would I go about this? Just use a old iron barrel I suppose is it?

Say my name · 26-05-2019 12:04pm

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Right Say...

So I watched that video of the lad in Estonia make biochar. When and how is it spread afterwards?

I’d have a lot that kinda small light timber that really only gets thrown in the ditch, so I might make a go of making it into biochar...

So if a lad was to do this, on a very small scale, how would I go about this? Just use a old iron barrel I suppose is it?

There's plenty use iron barrels. But depends what was in them. You wouldn't use one that had paint for example. Wash em out first anyways. The only issue with steel barrels is they'd only last a few burns with the light steel walls. Depends on scale too. Some use old gas tanks with the top cut off. Probably could use a steel oil tank too but it's just a little issue of cleaning it out properly and risk of any volatiles. But the first burn would probably take care of that.

If you want to use it straight away on land after the burn. Quench it with dirty water/thin slurry/agitated slurry from the slurry tank.
Otherwise use water and put into your dung heap/compost heap or mix and agitate it into your slurry tank.
Obviously if going to use it for feeding use a steel cap to on your burning vessel to put out or use just use clean water.

There's tons of clips about it all on Vimeo and YouTube and the Facebook biochar groups. Good luck!

Say my name · 28-05-2019 8:01am

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Right Say...

So I watched that video of the lad in Estonia make biochar. When and how is it spread afterwards?

I’d have a lot that kinda small light timber that really only gets thrown in the ditch, so I might make a go of making it into biochar...

So if a lad was to do this, on a very small scale, how would I go about this? Just use a old iron barrel I suppose is it?

Here's examples of Biochar being made in barrels. You might find interesting.
https://warmheartworldwide.org/biochar-africa/

timfromtang · 28-05-2019 1:07pm

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Right Say...

So I watched that video of the lad in Estonia make biochar. When and how is it spread afterwards?

I’d have a lot that kinda small light timber that really only gets thrown in the ditch, so I might make a go of making it into biochar...

So if a lad was to do this, on a very small scale, how would I go about this? Just use a old iron barrel I suppose is it?

PM me Dinzee, I'll help you get started with the making, an old iron bath works well for small quantities, 45 gall barrels are fine but burn out quickly and do not last long, a simple pit in the ground is an excellent method but a little more labour intensive (dig the pit, shovel out the char etc)
tim

Dinzee Conlee · 04-06-2019 2:34pm

I am only getting around to looking at this now (I dont think I'll be doing anything about it for another while)

From the bits I have seen online, to inoculate the biochar, they talk about soaking it for a while - 1 - 14 days is what various sources say.

So lets say I made biochar in a pit - and I quenched it with some kinda seaweed/FYM/nettle water mix, would that inoculate it? If it was in a pit, the pit wouldn't hold the water very long, so not sure if this would work?

Lets assume the biochar has been inoculated, its now a black wet mess (hopefully) in the pit - to dry it, is it just a case of covering the pit for a while, and letting it dry away itself?

After we have dried our biochar - I want to land spread it, on grassland, it wouldn't be worked into the soil. I suspect it needs to go into the ground to work, so will I need to crush it into tiny pieces?
Is it feasible to spread it in this manner, or should it really only be put into grand that is being worked?

After it has been spread, how can I ensure it stays on my grassland? I dont want it getting blown away in the first gale...

I don't know if anyone has the answers to these, but said I'd throw them out there anyways...

Say my name · 04-06-2019 3:37pm

You're like myself and overthinking the whole thing before we start.

https://m.facebook.com/theBiocharJournal/

Tell me if you can't see that link.

I haven't started yet. Well I got charcoal fines last year from Timfromtang and ground it up with a corn mill and fed it to the cows. And everything worked fine.

But I kind of nearly have something lined up in my head.
My idea is to use the cut offs from the ditches in some kind of pyramid kiln.
I want to have a pipe underneath the kiln going to the slurry tanker (with watery slurry) and just use gravity from the tanker with me on the gate valve letting it come up through the char from underneath.

From all reports I've seen is that by quenching the char from underneath you eliminate any risks of spitting and it becomes a more absorbent char (Activated charcoal) when quenched from underneath with steam coming up through. It should be ready to use straightaway after but maybe left for a day.
Spreading should be fairly straightforward. I'd use a shovel if I had to but either that or the dungspreader or my wagtail fert spreader with the bridle off the spout. I wouldn't be worried about blowing away. Lime doesn't blow away when spread.
Trying to get it fine enough. Either give the fire a poke around as its burning or put it out on a concrete yard and give it a roll with a land roller.

Is any of that post any use to you?

I just have to get a new card for my crappy inverter welder or else give the job to someone else.

Say my name · 14-06-2019 10:56pm

Ha! :pac:
Terra Preta from thousands of years ago found in Sligo..

https://www.thejournal.ie/megalithic-monument-sligo-4682855-Jun2019/

Say my name · 19-06-2019 9:01pm

If you've clicked into this thread, you're interested in biochar.

So you'd be interested in the latest Nori podcast. It's an interview with Albert Bates, author of several books on biochar.

https://nori.com/

I tried to link to the specific podcast but it's stuck on the main page.
It's number #79. And it's interesting. ..to me anyway. There's lots in it.
It's on that main page atm just scroll down.

Waffletraktor · 20-06-2019 9:20pm

Talking to a clever person recently.
I forget if it was per ton of an An based product or the raw N value but equaled a 15% loss of stored C.

Say my name · 20-06-2019 10:41pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Talking to a clever person recently.
I forget if it was per ton of an An based product or the raw N value but equaled a 15% loss of stored C.

Can you flesh that out a bit more?

An = Ammonium Nitrate.
N = Nitrogen.
C = Carbon.

And context. In soil? From applying fertiliser? Pleeease. Thank you.

Waffletraktor · 20-06-2019 10:49pm

Say my name wrote: »

Can you flesh that out a bit more?

An = Ammonium Nitrate.
N = Nitrogen.
C = Carbon.

And context. In soil? From applying fertiliser? Pleeease. Thank you.

Applied artificial Nitrogen source working on stored carbon and it's other constituents in OM.
Forget if it was raw N volume applied or going on Ammonium Nitrate(used as an easy ref) raw 34% N value. Chemistry talk makes my head hurty :pac:
From soil so in reference to how much OM needed to be put into storage forms to stand still content wise or increasing in arable soils

Say my name · 15-07-2019 12:31pm

Ganmo you were asking about a burner recently. Your pm box is full so ..

Here's one that's just turned up on the net.

https://twitter.com/OrganiLock/status/1150587408574013441?s=20

Say my name · 24-08-2019 5:22pm

This poped up on my Facebook feed from New Zealand.

https://climateagriculturalsupport.com/presentations/

There's a link to a biochar feeding trial on a large milking herd in NZ amongst other things on that site.

I don't think it's on that one but Doug Pow the pioneer in modern times of feeding biochar reckons wormers can be done away with when it's fed.

Edit : I'd highly recommend reading all in that link. It explains all about the carbon : nitrogen ratio, free forming soil nitrogen fixation, nitrogen mineralization and more.
It's gold.

patsy_mccabe · 06-10-2019 5:11pm

Basically there were 20 million people living in the amazon rainforest before smallpox from Europeans wiped them all out. The people living there created their own soil using biochar as the soil there is very poor. It's totally unsuitable for growing soya, by the way.

(I watch a lot of these Joe Rogan podcasts.)

uck51js9zml2yt · 06-10-2019 8:45pm

Say my name wrote: »

It will be left stew.
From what I've read and even just by entering "seaweed" on boards here people get on well with it this way.

Hopefully if I get it made, the plan down the road will be to use it for quenching biochar in a kon-tiki kiln.
But for now it'll do this way.

I contacted a company about how they processed their commercial seaweed foliar spray (which I used before) and they never came back to me. So that had a major influence on this development.

There's a poster on thefarmingforum using seaweed this way and mixing with biochar before feeding to sheep. So it's nothing that hasn't been done before.

It's something to pass the time anyway!

How have you gotten on with the seaweed?

Say my name · 06-10-2019 9:20pm

Genevieve Screeching Below wrote: »

How have you gotten on with the seaweed?

Maybe I should be deleting past posts?? :pac:

Ah well I only went with the one round with my homemade stuff.
I've a batch from a refill that I'll let into the slurry tank for the holding yard and spread that way at this time of year.

I'm beginning to think it might be better if I apply it to the soil instead of a straight foliar and use those drip nozzles that are used for liquid urea. Molasses mixed when spraying is a benefit to it as well.
I'm kind of banking on it putting minerals into the grass and minerals into the silage.
Anecdotal observation by me is that the stock are looking better than other years and no worming yet. I'll do the calves with their first dose tomorrow though.

Say my name · 10-10-2019 7:43am

News dump.

https://twitter.com/AgriChar_RG/status/1182183425693945856?s=20

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-49970863

https://twitter.com/eosfuturedesign/status/1181513351479939072?s=20

https://twitter.com/JeisaneAccioly/status/1181141915510566912?s=20

Say my name · 08-11-2019 8:17pm

Seemingly this is coming up on Countryfile on Sunday.

https://twitter.com/ireland_direct/status/1192797865262882817?s=20

I know it was mentioned at the Biofarm conference but wouldn't it be something else if there was an Innovative farmers led innovative set up in this country like the U.K.?

PoorFarmer · 10-11-2019 10:29pm

Say my name wrote:

Seemingly this is coming up on Countryfile on Sunday.

The research being carried out on the farm would be interesting reading to see the benefits if any of feeding the biochar to cattle.

That guy has a serious setup for making it though

Say my name · 11-11-2019 9:08am

PoorFarmer wrote: »

The research being carried out on the farm would be interesting reading to see the benefits if any of feeding the biochar to cattle.

That guy has a serious setup for making it though

Be interesting alright..
The only thing that struck me was he left it a bit gritty. It's easier if ground to a powder.

Believe it or not the open top cone or pyramid kiln would give as good or not better char for feeding. Especially if there's water coming up from underneath it would give a food grade activated carbon.
Hell of a lot of variables in biochar production. You just need one for people to say biochar good or biochar bad.

Edit: also the potential is there to inoculate the char with a whole host of things from lactic acid bacteria's to seaweed minerals to any enzyme prior to feeding.

Say my name · 11-11-2019 9:41am

PoorFarmer wrote: »

The research being carried out on the farm would be interesting reading to see the benefits if any of feeding the biochar to cattle.

That guy has a serious setup for making it though

They're way ahead out in Europe.
There's animal grade products approved and commercially made and available out there.

https://biochar-international.org/study-tour-austria/

TooOldBoots · 12-11-2019 11:30pm

How is Biochar in anyway natural? If anything the burning of fossil fuels to create charcoal is one of the most environmentally destructive things you can do.
This is a pure madness thread

Say my name · 12-11-2019 11:40pm

TooOldBoots wrote: »

How is Biochar in anyway natural? If anything the burning of fossil fuels to create charcoal is one of the most environmentally destructive things you can do.
This is a pure madness thread

Explain how fossil fuels are burnt to produce charcoal please?

timfromtang · 13-11-2019 5:55pm

TooOldBoots wrote: »

How is Biochar in anyway natural? If anything the burning of fossil fuels to create charcoal is one of the most environmentally destructive things you can do.
This is a pure madness thread

Charcoal is produced from Wood, Biochar can be produced from any organic matter (i.e. something that grows).

NO FOSSIL FUELS ARE INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS excepting perhaps used in the cutting of timber or transport of the biochar/charcoal.

Perhaps you have been misinformed.....

All the best
tim

toleratethis · 04-12-2019 11:57pm

Watching some YouTube on biochar this evening. I will reread the thread but in the meantime can I get a quick and dirty reply as to what kind of things can be "loaded" to biochar to say build soil, aid microbes, fungi, soil fertility that someone can make themselves? In the vid they mentioned urine, that may take me a wee while to cover the farm ðŸ˜„

Say my name · 05-12-2019 12:11am

toleratethis wrote: »

Watching some YouTube on biochar this evening. I will reread the thread but in the meantime can I get a quick and dirty reply as to what kind of things can be "loaded" to biochar to say build soil, aid microbes, fungi, soil fertility that someone can make themselves? In the vid they mentioned urine, that may take me a wee while to cover the farm ðŸ˜„

What can and should be "loaded"?

Basically those microbes and fungi.
The preparations of IMO3 and IMO4 from natural farming would be ideal otherwise your dungheap or your slurrytank.

https://youtu.be/UtjTgD1otMs

https://youtu.be/EuByBHHHaGM

_Brian · 05-12-2019 11:15am

I was looking at videos relating to “beam compost” where the principle is more inoculation of ground with fungi rather than spreading sufficient compost to improve the soil.

They are talking about repeated treatments of small amounts of the “compost” and results seem very impressive indeed both from a production volume perspective and carbon sequestration, they are claiming they are measuring at least ten tones the volume of sequestered carbon compared to any other method.

https://regenerationinternational.org/bioreactor/

toleratethis · 05-12-2019 1:14pm

_Brian wrote: »

I was looking at videos relating to “beam compost” where the principle is more inoculation of ground with fungi rather than spreading sufficient compost to improve the soil.

They are talking about repeated treatments of small amounts of the “compost” and results seem very impressive indeed both from a production volume perspective and carbon sequestration, they are claiming they are measuring at least ten tones the volume of sequestered carbon compared to any other method.

https://regenerationinternational.org/bioreactor/

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it was the Farmerama podcast that I heard Johnson on. Was aware of the bioreactor previously, but first time to hear an interview.

_Brian · 05-12-2019 1:18pm

toleratethis wrote: »

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it was the Farmerama podcast that I heard Johnson on. Was aware of the bioreactor previously, but first time to hear an interview.

Yep.
Then I just googled some of his research.

There are some videos on YouTube of talks he gave in I think Australia.

When it’s raining at lunchtime and I can’t walk I often nerd out on this stuff 🤓

toleratethis · 05-12-2019 1:24pm

_Brian wrote: »

Yep.
Then I just googled some of his research.

There are some videos on YouTube of talks he gave in I think Australia.

When it’s raining at lunchtime and I can’t walk I often nerd out on this stuff ðŸ€“

I find myself looking for reasons to drive places just to listen to good podcasts. Learn so much and added bonus of escaping the utter sh1t on all radio stations here.

_Brian · 05-12-2019 1:27pm

toleratethis wrote: »

I find myself looking for reasons to drive places just to listen to good podcasts. Learn so much and added bonus of escaping the utter sh1t on all radio stations here.

I either listen to these or audiobooks, rarely the radio.

endainoz · 05-12-2019 2:14pm

On that subject, could ye recommend any good podcasts on this or related subjects like sustainability etc?

toleratethis · 05-12-2019 5:04pm

endainoz wrote: »

On that subject, could ye recommend any good podcasts on this or related subjects like sustainability etc?

The working cows podcast is great, very American centered.
Farmerama is another.

Not sure after that, just started into podcasts lately.

Castlekeeper · 28-12-2019 11:12am

Just came across this, not that much in it but said I'd link it on here anyhow.

Say my name · 28-12-2019 6:16pm

A pdf presentation from Wilson's of Oregon from one of their workshops.

Note the ppm of nitrogen in the fym when the char is added with the bedding as opposed to heaped up and composted.

* Could be important when/if Brussels cuts nitrogen limits or for organic farmers.

Say my name · 28-12-2019 6:30pm

Say my name wrote: »

A pdf presentation from Wilson's of Oregan from one of their workshops.

Note the ppm of nitrogen in the fym when the char is added with the bedding as opposed to heaped up and composted.

* Could be important when/if Brussels cuts nitrogen limits or for organic farmers.

Added pdf.

Castlekeeper · 12-01-2020 4:50pm

https://drecolonomics.lpages.co/soil-food-web/

This is free once registered this evening at 18.00, if I've my time zones right.

Upstream · 12-01-2020 5:07pm

_Brian wrote: »

I was looking at videos relating to “beam compost” where the principle is more inoculation of ground with fungi rather than spreading sufficient compost to improve the soil.

They are talking about repeated treatments of small amounts of the “compost” and results seem very impressive indeed both from a production volume perspective and carbon sequestration, they are claiming they are measuring at least ten tones the volume of sequestered carbon compared to any other method.

https://regenerationinternational.org/bioreactor/

I've made a few of these Johnson-Su bioreactors, except instead of mesh sides and garden fabric I used a bulk fertilizer bag on a pallet with four wavin pipes in a cross shape. They worked fairly well and I've got some nice looking compost from them.
I've spread a bit on our lawn to see if it will help with a compaction layer half an inch down.
I reckon if it can work there it can work anywhere

Say my name · 12-01-2020 5:17pm

Upstream wrote: »

I've made a few of these Johnson-Su bioreactors, except instead of mesh sides and garden fabric I used a bulk fertilizer bag on a pallet with four wavin pipes in a cross shape. They worked fairly well and I've got some nice looking compost from them.
I've spread a bit on our lawn to see if it will help with a compaction layer half an inch down.
I reckon if it can work there it can work anywhere

What's the story with them?
Do you have to use special ingredients and special ratios for the compost?

Upstream · 12-01-2020 6:45pm

Say my name wrote: »

What's the story with them?
Do you have to use special ingredients and special ratios for the compost?

Not much different to normal compost really, just have your material mixed and a C:N ratio in the right range.
Dr Johnson originally started making them with as a way to deal with waste cow manure from dairies mixed with other inputs. He switched to mostly leaf litter as it was easier to deal with and less messy. I used quite a bit of waste silage in the first few I made and they didn't heat very much, it's probably not an ideal material, but otherwise they seem to be not too fussy.

I asked Christine Jones about them at Biofarm and she said they were quite labour intensive and I'd agree, although not as much work as regular turned compost piles. She has a recipe for no turn compost that I think she will pass on to the group at some stage so I'd be interested to see that.

Biochar and natural farming

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