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Biochar and natural farming

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  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭timfromtang


    _Brian wrote: »
    How can biochar be produced on a scale to add to soils.




    Hi again Brian,
    After easily converting a heap of sticks and brash into biochar in your lovely flame cap kiln, you'll want to activate the char before adding it to the soil.
    Its not a fertiliser per se, more of a habitat for soil organisms,as a bonding substrate for holding nutrients and preventing leaching, and increasing the cation exchange capacity of the soil to which it is applied.

    This is a good explanation of what works well when it comes to activating biochar
    http://www.ithaka-journal.net/wege-zu-terra-preta-aktivierung-von-biokohle?lang=en


    all the best
    tim


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,479 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Hi again Brian,
    After easily converting a heap of sticks and brash into biochar in your lovely flame cap kiln, you'll want to activate the char before adding it to the soil.
    Its not a fertiliser per se, more of a habitat for soil organisms,as a bonding substrate for holding nutrients and preventing leaching, and increasing the cation exchange capacity of the soil to which it is applied.

    This is a good explanation of what works well when it comes to activating biochar
    http://www.ithaka-journal.net/wege-zu-terra-preta-aktivierung-von-biokohle?lang=en


    all the best
    tim

    I understand the activation process.

    But say I want to improve 1 care at a time, how much do I need, and what are the resources consumed to produce it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭timfromtang


    _Brian wrote: »
    I understand the activation process.

    But say I want to improve 1 care at a time, how much do I need, and what are the resources consumed to produce it.




    I presume 1 Acre at a time,

    I have read that 10-50T/Ha is the goal, this is a lot.
    Of course you could not ad this all in one go.
    One would assume that building up the char content of your soils over time would be a better approach


    For each 5 tonnes or so of stuff that you process into char you will get about 1 ton of char.


    I'd say that by simply charring your waste on farm each year, you'd have a very significant addition of char to your soils after 5 years or so. i.e. just keep tipping away each year for a number of years to add sufficient char to your soils. Provided the char is properly activated before adding there would appear to be no practical upper limit to the amount you could add, although above about 10T/Ha it is my understanding that further gains in soil performance will be small.



    charcoal is a bit too valuable to add directly to soils in any case.


    The current char, activate, add to soil, paradigm is in my opinion a bit wasteful.
    Instead char may be activated by using it for something else before adding it to soil, i.e. only add it to soil after you have used its capacity for something else
    clear as mud right?
    for example, add char to concentrate fed to cattle to improve animal health and reduce methane farting and conserve nutrients, then add further char to the manure produced in a compossting process, then add the resulting mix to the soil. In this way you will retain most if not all of the micro and macronutrients.

    Char may be added to poultry bedding or animal bedding too, its very effective at moderating the smell of horse piss in stables etc, and gets activated n the process. Chickens don't like bigger sharp pieces, char for chickens should be well ground and mixed with the bedding.


    tim


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭ganmo


    I'm putting this down here more to remind myself to look into it in the future.

    would adding biochar bind some of the trace elements like charcoal does with other heavy metals


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,479 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    The current char, activate, add to soil, paradigm is in my opinion a bit wasteful.
    Instead char may be activated by using it for something else before adding it to soil, i.e. only add it to soil after you have used its capacity for something else
    clear as mud right?
    for example, add char to concentrate fed to cattle to improve animal health and reduce methane farting and conserve nutrients, then add further char to the manure produced in a compossting process, then add the resulting mix to the soil. In this way you will retain most if not all of the micro and macronutrients.

    Char may be added to poultry bedding or animal bedding too, its very effective at moderating the smell of horse piss in stables etc, and gets activated n the process. Chickens don't like bigger sharp pieces, char for chickens should be well ground and mixed with the bedding.


    tim


    Thanks Tim..
    That makes great sense now, sort of a double use from it with the primary being feed/bedding additive and second being spread along with manure already activated in the primary use..


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,078 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    ganmo wrote: »
    I'm putting this down here more to remind myself to look into it in the future.

    would adding biochar bind some of the trace elements like charcoal does with other heavy metals

    Yea it does yes.

    Charcoal and biochar are both in the same. It's gets confusing though between charcoal, biochar, activated carbon which can all be the same thing. The differences can be what temperatures it was cooked at or what material it was made from.
    The biochar word was formed by the biological side of inoculating charcoal for use in soil.
    The tragedy is that people are describing carbon left over from pyrolysis of waste tyres and rubbish as biochar when it's detrimental to soil and not at all like the charcoal used in the formation of terra preta that began this whole interest in biochar and adoption.

    It's either New York or Chicago are using charcoal/biochar as a filter to remove heavy metals from concrete run off on their docklands from entering the waterways.
    Surprisingly and people here wouldn't give it a second thought but the biggest pollution is zinc, aluminium, washing off chain link fencing.

    It's also being used as a soil amendment on mine tailings and also filtering motorway runoff.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,078 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Further on from the announcement of carbon credits being paid out by the Australian government on the carbon credit thread.
    Carbon credits will be paid out for biochar use under regenerative agriculture.

    https://news.fuseworksmedia.com/5908c167-8690-4fe6-b229-985b8b7d58cc?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,078 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    This initiative may interest a few here.

    I know there's a few charcoal producers who read the thread.

    But it looks interesting.

    http://www.chemistswithoutborders.org/Active-Projects/biochar.php


  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭timfromtang


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhSmTPdDvAM


    tim


    A well known and widely used product in Asia.
    multiple uses
    easily made
    produces charcoal too (this would be a somewhat tarry charcoal 70% fixed carbon or so and need further heat treatment for use as biochar)


  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭timfromtang


    info on stuff
    follow links
    tim





    https://greenyourhead.typepad.com/files/2016_wilson-wv-tcia-2.pdf
    https://greenyourhead.typepad.com/files/tci_mag_feb2014_burn_school-1.pdf
    https://greenyourhead.typepad.com/files/biochar_for_arborists_kelpie_wilson.pdf

    on this last link I would NOT use an air spade anywhere near the root ball of a growing tree as BARTLETT TREE CARE suggest in this article for fear of damage to the fine hairs on the root system.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,078 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    This is a very interesting interview with Mike McGolden of Coaltec USA.
    He goes into how he has set up a plant on a pig farm in Holland due to their regulations on slurry.
    And in the end comparing the cost of transport of phosphorus and nutrients in slurry compared to char.
    He goes into how wood only producers have to get a high price for their char as it's the only product but other industries can take a waste and get cost efficiencies from that waste and then hopefully a premium product so doubly effective at staying solvent.

    https://m.soundcloud.com/farm-to-taber-podcast/26-mike-mcgolden-part-2

    Coaltec energy USA.
    http://www.coaltecenergy.com/


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,078 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Right on the natural farming side of things.
    This is the craic I'm currently at.

    Making my own humic acid/ seaweed juice.

    I'll half fill an ibc tank with seaweed and the rest with well water and start using the mixture every 10 days or so for the year. Either to be sprayed on the grassland or let into the slurry tank. Hopefully I'll have enough seaweed for 4 ibc tanks.

    Rinsing off the sand before it goes in the tank.
    20190410-124123.jpg

    And an ibc and in the ibc tank.

    20190410-132139.jpg

    20190410-132229.jpg

    Rest of the job is to continue filling and then top up with water.

    *Before anyone asks. It was got in international waters. :cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,479 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Right on the natural farming side of things.
    This is the craic I'm currently at.

    Making my own humic acid/ seaweed juice.

    I'll half fill an ibc tank with seaweed and the rest with well water and start using the mixture every 10 days or so for the year. Either to be sprayed on the grassland or let into the slurry tank. Hopefully I'll have enough seaweed for 4 ibc tanks.

    Rinsing off the sand before it goes in the tank.
    20190410-124123.jpg

    And an ibc and in the ibc tank.

    20190410-132139.jpg

    20190410-132229.jpg

    Rest of the job is to continue filling and then top up with water.

    *Before anyone asks. It was got in international waters. :cool:

    Wow, what are the results like.
    Is this aerated or just left stew ??

    Is it like the activated compost tea I’ve read about ??


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,078 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    _Brian wrote: »
    Wow, what are the results like.
    Is this aerated or just left stew ??

    Is it like the activated compost tea I’ve read about ??

    It will be left stew.
    From what I've read and even just by entering "seaweed" on boards here people get on well with it this way.

    Hopefully if I get it made, the plan down the road will be to use it for quenching biochar in a kon-tiki kiln.
    But for now it'll do this way.

    I contacted a company about how they processed their commercial seaweed foliar spray (which I used before) and they never came back to me. So that had a major influence on this development.

    There's a poster on thefarmingforum using seaweed this way and mixing with biochar before feeding to sheep. So it's nothing that hasn't been done before.

    It's something to pass the time anyway! :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,479 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    It will be left stew.
    From what I've read and even just by entering "seaweed" on boards here people get on well with it this way.

    Hopefully if I get it made, the plan down the road will be to use it for quenching biochar in a kon-tiki kiln.
    But for now it'll do this way.

    I contacted a company about how they processed their commercial seaweed foliar spray (which I used before) and they never came back to me. So that had a major influence on this development.

    There's a poster on thefarmingforum using seaweed this way and mixing with biochar before feeding to sheep. So it's nothing that hasn't been done before.

    It's something to pass the time anyway! :)

    You should look up compost tea and the sites, some interesting stuff with claims of good results.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,078 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    _Brian wrote: »
    You should look up compost tea and the sites, some interesting stuff with claims of good results.

    I've briefly looked at it.
    Tbh it's hard to have time to do all these yokes. At least with what I'm doing now I'm just bunging it into a container and leaving it. Taking some liquid out when I want it and topping up again.
    I think I'll throw some young nettles in as well. For the craic.

    There's worm casting and farming too and a multitude more different types of "sustainable" farming methods. It's all a large rabbit hole nearly too big for this small fella.

    Edit: just found out on the web, undiluted nettle fertilizer can be used as a herbicide.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,078 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Here's a link to a book review website that has an excerpt from a new Biochar book.
    It's called Burn. Using fire to cool the Earth.

    https://inthebooks.800ceoread.com/excerpts/articles/burn

    Included in it is about a man feeding it to cattle and growing avocados.
    New cash crop for this country to feed D4.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,078 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    This article deserves to be in this thread for nothing more than the percentages of stabilizing soil carbon it quotes and the links it gives too. Oh the methods of Biochar production are good too.
    Interesting article.

    https://rodaleinstitute.org/blog/whats-biochar-how-to-stabilize-carbon-in-your-soil/

    Hmmm soil carbon..


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,078 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    An Estonian farmer driving a Belarus tractor simply making biochar.


    https://youtu.be/k12sH-Z92w8

    Edit: Did someone once post that charcoal is worth €400/ton?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,078 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    I think this is the first paper that paves the way to understanding how biochar primes the soil for carbon sequestration.
    Basically saying it makes for a more diverse soil life and actually more of the bacteria and fungi.
    Life lives. Life dies. Life turns to carbon.

    https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-019-0693-7


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    Right Say...

    So I watched that video of the lad in Estonia make biochar. When and how is it spread afterwards?

    I’d have a lot that kinda small light timber that really only gets thrown in the ditch, so I might make a go of making it into biochar...

    So if a lad was to do this, on a very small scale, how would I go about this? Just use a old iron barrel I suppose is it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,078 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Right Say...

    So I watched that video of the lad in Estonia make biochar. When and how is it spread afterwards?

    I’d have a lot that kinda small light timber that really only gets thrown in the ditch, so I might make a go of making it into biochar...

    So if a lad was to do this, on a very small scale, how would I go about this? Just use a old iron barrel I suppose is it?

    There's plenty use iron barrels. But depends what was in them. You wouldn't use one that had paint for example. Wash em out first anyways. The only issue with steel barrels is they'd only last a few burns with the light steel walls. Depends on scale too. Some use old gas tanks with the top cut off. Probably could use a steel oil tank too but it's just a little issue of cleaning it out properly and risk of any volatiles. But the first burn would probably take care of that.

    If you want to use it straight away on land after the burn. Quench it with dirty water/thin slurry/agitated slurry from the slurry tank.
    Otherwise use water and put into your dung heap/compost heap or mix and agitate it into your slurry tank.
    Obviously if going to use it for feeding use a steel cap to on your burning vessel to put out or use just use clean water.

    There's tons of clips about it all on Vimeo and YouTube and the Facebook biochar groups. Good luck!


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,078 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Right Say...

    So I watched that video of the lad in Estonia make biochar. When and how is it spread afterwards?

    I’d have a lot that kinda small light timber that really only gets thrown in the ditch, so I might make a go of making it into biochar...

    So if a lad was to do this, on a very small scale, how would I go about this? Just use a old iron barrel I suppose is it?

    Here's examples of Biochar being made in barrels. You might find interesting.
    https://warmheartworldwide.org/biochar-africa/


  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭timfromtang


    Right Say...

    So I watched that video of the lad in Estonia make biochar. When and how is it spread afterwards?

    I’d have a lot that kinda small light timber that really only gets thrown in the ditch, so I might make a go of making it into biochar...

    So if a lad was to do this, on a very small scale, how would I go about this? Just use a old iron barrel I suppose is it?


    PM me Dinzee, I'll help you get started with the making, an old iron bath works well for small quantities, 45 gall barrels are fine but burn out quickly and do not last long, a simple pit in the ground is an excellent method but a little more labour intensive (dig the pit, shovel out the char etc)
    tim


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    I am only getting around to looking at this now (I dont think I'll be doing anything about it for another while)

    From the bits I have seen online, to inoculate the biochar, they talk about soaking it for a while - 1 - 14 days is what various sources say.

    So lets say I made biochar in a pit - and I quenched it with some kinda seaweed/FYM/nettle water mix, would that inoculate it? If it was in a pit, the pit wouldn't hold the water very long, so not sure if this would work?

    Lets assume the biochar has been inoculated, its now a black wet mess (hopefully) in the pit - to dry it, is it just a case of covering the pit for a while, and letting it dry away itself?

    After we have dried our biochar - I want to land spread it, on grassland, it wouldn't be worked into the soil. I suspect it needs to go into the ground to work, so will I need to crush it into tiny pieces?
    Is it feasible to spread it in this manner, or should it really only be put into grand that is being worked?

    After it has been spread, how can I ensure it stays on my grassland? I dont want it getting blown away in the first gale...

    I don't know if anyone has the answers to these, but said I'd throw them out there anyways...


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,078 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    You're like myself and overthinking the whole thing before we start.

    https://m.facebook.com/theBiocharJournal/

    Tell me if you can't see that link.

    I haven't started yet. Well I got charcoal fines last year from Timfromtang and ground it up with a corn mill and fed it to the cows. And everything worked fine.

    But I kind of nearly have something lined up in my head.
    My idea is to use the cut offs from the ditches in some kind of pyramid kiln.
    I want to have a pipe underneath the kiln going to the slurry tanker (with watery slurry) and just use gravity from the tanker with me on the gate valve letting it come up through the char from underneath.

    From all reports I've seen is that by quenching the char from underneath you eliminate any risks of spitting and it becomes a more absorbent char (Activated charcoal) when quenched from underneath with steam coming up through. It should be ready to use straightaway after but maybe left for a day.
    Spreading should be fairly straightforward. I'd use a shovel if I had to but either that or the dungspreader or my wagtail fert spreader with the bridle off the spout. I wouldn't be worried about blowing away. Lime doesn't blow away when spread.
    Trying to get it fine enough. Either give the fire a poke around as its burning or put it out on a concrete yard and give it a roll with a land roller.

    Is any of that post any use to you?

    I just have to get a new card for my crappy inverter welder or else give the job to someone else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,078 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Ha! :pac:
    Terra Preta from thousands of years ago found in Sligo..

    https://www.thejournal.ie/megalithic-monument-sligo-4682855-Jun2019/


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,078 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    If you've clicked into this thread, you're interested in biochar.

    So you'd be interested in the latest Nori podcast. It's an interview with Albert Bates, author of several books on biochar.

    https://nori.com/

    I tried to link to the specific podcast but it's stuck on the main page.
    It's number #79. And it's interesting. ..to me anyway. There's lots in it.
    It's on that main page atm just scroll down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    Talking to a clever person recently.
    I forget if it was per ton of an An based product or the raw N value but equaled a 15% loss of stored C.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,078 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Talking to a clever person recently.
    I forget if it was per ton of an An based product or the raw N value but equaled a 15% loss of stored C.

    Can you flesh that out a bit more?

    An = Ammonium Nitrate.
    N = Nitrogen.
    C = Carbon.

    And context. In soil? From applying fertiliser? Pleeease. Thank you.


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