Sage Barista Express

breeno · 08-02-2021 2:56pm

Picked up this machine over the weekend and enjoying it so far. Think I have my grind right but my tamp needs to get more consistent. Seeing variations in extraction time as a result.

Anybody have a good ratio for an Americano or Long Black? Tried an 18g in / 38g out Espresso with 100ml of water and it's a bit weak. Are there better recipes?

My latte art is laughable but hopefully will improve with time!

S_D · 12-02-2021 4:20pm

I've got some questions i hope people can answer.

I've been manually measuring 18g of beans - popping into the grinder and using that. I'm getting 32g of coffee after 10 seconds of extraction!! Its nicer than the 60g i get if I wait for 30 seconds (post infusion) Grind setting 2. Surely thats not right? If I leave it for 30 seconds I end up 60g+ of coffee.

Anyone any ideas or what you do for the 2:1 ratio

MrsBean · 12-02-2021 6:11pm

We got ours recently and spent a bit if time last night dialling in. We kept getting underextracted shots pulling real quick. We were down at grind setting 1 and we decided to adjust the internal burr setting. Looked up a few videos online, fairly straight forward process.
Could be the coffee we were using, it's medium to light roast which I believe might need a finer grind setting.
Fairly happy with it now.

One thing I would say is ruling out inconsistencies in your variables makes the whole process a lot easier. We got a digital scales/timer and a palm tamper/distributer to make sure we were being consistent in weight and tamp.

FileNotFound · 12-02-2021 6:29pm

S_D wrote: »

I've got some questions i hope people can answer.

I've been manually measuring 18g of beans - popping into the grinder and using that. I'm getting 32g of coffee after 10 seconds of extraction!! Its nicer than the 60g i get if I wait for 30 seconds (post infusion) Grind setting 2. Surely thats not right? If I leave it for 30 seconds I end up 60g+ of coffee.

Anyone any ideas or what you do for the 2:1 ratio

Open up the hopper and you'll find the internal birr is adjustable.

Adjust that.

DaveyDave · 12-02-2021 8:41pm

Haven't touched anything now I suddenly have to move the grind dial from around 1pm position to max and it's not really giving me anything extra.

The machine is messing with me at this stage!

mad m · 12-02-2021 8:51pm

I’ve sort of stopped messing with mine. Bell lane espresso house blend I was set at 5 for grind and 6 on burr. As the weeks went by I had to adjust to grind 6 near end of bag.

The bag of B&D black water blend is perfect for burr 6 and grind 6. 19g in 40g out or just over on manual double shot at 28seconds.

Sage pro btw.

breeno · 12-02-2021 9:16pm

MrsBean wrote: »

We got ours recently and spent a bit if time last night dialling in. We kept getting underextracted shots pulling real quick. We were down at grind setting 1 and we decided to adjust the internal burr setting. Looked up a few videos online, fairly straight forward process.
Could be the coffee we were using, it's medium to light roast which I believe might need a finer grind setting.
Fairly happy with it now.

One thing I would say is ruling out inconsistencies in your variables makes the whole process a lot easier. We got a digital scales/timer and a palm tamper/distributer to make sure we were being consistent in weight and tamp.

How did you set the distances/sizes for the tamper and distributor tool? I have one arriving tomorrow and want to make sure I get the best out of it!

FileNotFound · 13-02-2021 12:26am

breeno wrote: »

How did you set the distances/sizes for the tamper and distributor tool? I have one arriving tomorrow and want to make sure I get the best out of it!

Comes with a precision trimmer to assist.

Booklet gives good starting point.

Issac · 13-02-2021 8:36am

I'm really struggling to get the correct settings on this machine.
If I get the correct extraction time (around 30 seconds) then my pressure is very high and my volume out is approx 55g ish.
I've moved the internal burr (now at 3).
Anything obvious I can target? I think tampering pressure has a huge effect on output so maybe I need to get that under control? How high a tampering pressure is normal?
Edit: I make sure the machine is properly heated and run some water through before each brew.

Squidgy Black · 13-02-2021 11:02am

Issac wrote: »

I'm really struggling to get the correct settings on this machine.
If I get the correct extraction time (around 30 seconds) then my pressure is very high and my volume out is approx 55g ish.
I've moved the internal burr (now at 3).
Anything obvious I can target? I think tampering pressure has a huge effect on output so maybe I need to get that under control? How high a tampering pressure is normal?
Edit: I make sure the machine is properly heated and run some water through before each brew.

You need to go tighter on your grind, tamping pressure isn't really a variable as much as anything else so you just want to apply enough pressure to form your puck.

Issac · 13-02-2021 4:02pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

You need to go tighter on your grind, tamping pressure isn't really a variable as much as anything else so you just want to apply enough pressure to form your puck.

Thanks I'll try that again. Really seems to vary.
Think I might need to get my engineering hat on and run a proper DOE on this.

FileNotFound · 15-02-2021 5:57pm

Issac wrote: »

I'm really struggling to get the correct settings on this machine.
If I get the correct extraction time (around 30 seconds) then my pressure is very high and my volume out is approx 55g ish.
I've moved the internal burr (now at 3).
Anything obvious I can target? I think tampering pressure has a huge effect on output so maybe I need to get that under control? How high a tampering pressure is normal?
Edit: I make sure the machine is properly heated and run some water through before each brew.

For 2:1 ratio coffee - 36g out from 18g in - you need to go above the recommended range on the dial

The "espresso range" on the BE is more a lungo range in reality - nothing wrong with forcing it up. Ignore the gauge and focus on your input/output.

Also assuming you're keeping internal birr fixed and just adjusting the side grind dial - tamping will be important.

The BE grinder increments are big compared to any top end (even sage standalone) grinders. So learn to have a light, medium and heavy tamp.

ExMachina1000 · 15-02-2021 10:39pm

Are you using the factory default shot size?

Ie the amount of water the machine puts through the coffee.

You could try program it for 50ml or so and then fine tune your grind setting to control and adjust the length of time taken to pour.

I aim for 17 g in, 45 ml shot in 25-30 seconds.

I have my Express around 4 years now. Still going strong!

Colonel Claptrap · 16-02-2021 10:28am

I changed the internal burr setting down to 3 this morning.
Noticed a surprising difference in taste.

More tinkering needed.

FileNotFound · 16-02-2021 10:38am

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

I changed the internal burr setting down to 3 this morning.
Noticed a surprising difference in taste.

More tinkering needed.

Let us know what you find out.

Colonel Claptrap · 17-02-2021 11:03am

FileNotFound wrote: »

Let us know what you find out.

This morning I tried internal burr on 3, grinder on 4 with Forsa Gala beans. Practically nothing came out in the first 7 seconds so maybe I tamped too much.

Resulted in a fantastic cup of coffee. I'm nearing the sweet spot.

Next I'll try 3/6.

Klopp · 17-02-2021 11:52am

My SB, the internal burr is at 4 and current grind at 3 - 18g in and getting 58g extraction on a medium roast.

FileNotFound · 18-02-2021 1:16pm

Klopp wrote: »

My SB, the internal burr is at 4 and current grind at 3 - 18g in and getting 58g extraction on a medium roast.

You using the preset settings?

Klopp · 18-02-2021 1:19pm

FileNotFound wrote: »

You using the preset settings?

Funny, i thought this myself this morning and i checked and reset to be sure but it was the same again today, this time it was 18.5g with 60ml at 45 seconds?

FileNotFound · 18-02-2021 1:45pm

Klopp wrote: »

Funny, i thought this myself this morning and i checked and reset to be sure but it was the same again today, this time it was 18.5g with 60ml at 45 seconds?

Personally where the basket has 18g in it

I use the preset 2 cup button to start the shot - but hit it again to stop it once it has dispensed 36g of coffee ( I actually hit it at 34g or just before to account for the the bit that continues post stop).

The aim is then to adjust the grind settings so this all happens at 25-30 seconds depending on the coffee in question. (some have the best timing provided on their websites).

The preset will always aim to give 60ml (seems to be designed to give a lungo style coffee) no matter the grind as its merely a set volume. All that will change really is the time this takes to happen.

When you do this your gauge will go above the recommend range to the to about where the "E" is at the end of "RANGE"

Hope this helps

Klopp · 18-02-2021 2:43pm

FileNotFound wrote: »

Personally where the basket has 18g in it

I use the preset 2 cup button to start the shot - but hit it again to stop it once it has dispensed 36g of coffee ( I actually hit it at 34g or just before to account for the the bit that continues post stop).

The aim is then to adjust the grind settings so this all happens at 25-30 seconds depending on the coffee in question. (some have the best timing provided on their websites).

The preset will always aim to give 60ml (seems to be designed to give a lungo style coffee) no matter the grind as its merely a set volume. All that will change really is the time this takes to happen.

When you do this your gauge will go above the recommend range to the to about where the "E" is at the end of "RANGE"

Hope this helps

I thought about using the 'preset' option before and then i think is this cheating the machine? lol. I have got lovely shots without changing the settings too much but the next day the taste is off along with extraction time extract amount using the same beans, at least using the preset you would get more consistency.

I'll try this option going forward and report back in a few days.

fits · 18-02-2021 3:43pm

I have a question. If you drink Americana or milk drinks why would you be so concerned about the 1:2 ratio

Klopp · 18-02-2021 4:43pm

fits wrote: »

I have a question. If you drink Americana or milk drinks why would you be so concerned about the 1:2 ratio

Why wouldn't you be?

Some like a 1:2 ratio, some like a 1:3, all about what your own preference is.

Fall_Guy · 18-02-2021 5:29pm

fits wrote: »

I have a question. If you drink Americana or milk drinks why would you be so concerned about the 1:2 ratio

I don't know about the 1:2 ratio specifically, but whether you're drinking straight espresso, a milk based drink or a longer black drink, knowledge of your brew ratio is one marker that allows you to adjust your next drink so it is more to your taste.

For me, I'd much rather know exactly what dose each coffee I make is and how much liquid it yielded so that I know how to make the next drink less sour /less bitter / whatever. And when I make a drink just the way I like it, I want to be able to know why it tasted the way I like it, and how to recreate it next time. Dose and yield (so by extention brew ratio) are excellent markers to aid this pursuit.

Yeah, the differences are less pronounced in a milk based drink or a longer black drink, but there's still plenty of variation in the flavour profiles of a drink depending on how it was brewed.

downtheroad · 18-02-2021 5:35pm

Have my machine since July 2017 and had my first mechanical issue with it this week. When the pressure built up water, steam and coffee started to spurt out from the group head. Turns out the rubber seal at the gasket is worn down, not surprising with all the use its been getting of late. So a replacement is on the way, but machine out of action for a few days so no home brew coffee until I get the new seal.

Hodors Appletart · 18-02-2021 7:05pm

jaysis have you no back up like an aeropress or v60?

they are so cheap you should get one

breeno · 18-02-2021 7:48pm

fits wrote: »

I have a question. If you drink Americana or milk drinks why would you be so concerned about the 1:2 ratio

I've been going with a dose 18g in and then my output depends on the drink I'm having. If I'm having espresso I go 1:2 and get 36g out but for Americano or Latte I go 1:3 so about 54g out as I think it keeps a stronger taste than the 36g which I find gets a bit lost and watery in longer drinks.

I also got a palm distributor and tamper from Amazon and I can't believe how much more consistent it's making my shots. Delighted with it. The brand is Xunada and it's the 53mm version.

downtheroad · 18-02-2021 8:17pm

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

jaysis have you no back up like an aeropress or v60?

they are so cheap you should get one

The aeropress is in the office, since last March. Could be an essential journey.

FileNotFound · 20-02-2021 2:53am

breeno wrote: »

I've been going with a dose 18g in and then my output depends on the drink I'm having. If I'm having espresso I go 1:2 and get 36g out but for Americano or Latte I go 1:3 so about 54g out as I think it keeps a stronger taste than the 36g which I find gets a bit lost and watery in longer drinks.

I also got a palm distributor and tamper from Amazon and I can't believe how much more consistent it's making my shots. Delighted with it. The brand is Xunada and it's the 53mm version.

I just use less milk in the milk based than most prob do.

I understood the pressure of shot changes the entire flavour profile and that over drawing can mean you get a poor flavour.

I can't say I'd notice in anything but espresso.

I use the Chemex for anything not espresso based.

downtheroad · 22-02-2021 6:21pm

downtheroad wrote: »

Have my machine since July 2017 and had my first mechanical issue with it this week. When the pressure built up water, steam and coffee started to spurt out from the group head. Turns out the rubber seal at the gasket is worn down, not surprising with all the use its been getting of late. So a replacement is on the way, but machine out of action for a few days so no home brew coffee until I get the new seal.

Fixed. Used 1 of these, in case anyone ever has a similar issue - https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08P1CK4C6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_Z273DT77FZ8NAV160W8T?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Colonel Claptrap · 27-02-2021 11:37am

I think my machine is broken. Tried making a cup this morning but barely a trickle of coffee came out of the portafilter. Almost as if there wasn't enough pressure or there was a blockage.

I wasnt caffeinated enough to investigate further.

6 months old so still under warranty.

ExMachina1000 · 27-02-2021 12:19pm

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

I think my machine is broken. Tried making a cup this morning but barely a trickle of coffee came out of the portafilter. Almost as if there wasn't enough pressure or there was a blockage.

I wasnt caffeinated enough to investigate further.

6 months old so still under warranty.

Is there water without the portafilter in position?

Obvious question I know

Colonel Claptrap · 27-02-2021 4:06pm

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Is there water without the portafilter in position?

Obvious question I know

Yes there is. Seems like a normal flow rate too. It's almost like the portafilter is blocked.

ExMachina1000 · 27-02-2021 6:40pm

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Yes there is. Seems like a normal flow rate too. It's almost like the portafilter is blocked.

Sounds like your coffee is too fine or tamp way too strong.
Doubtful it's the pump or blocked basket. Change to a different basket to confirm then change your grind coarser. 3 to 4 numbers up from where the dial is set now would be a good place to test

Hopefully gets it sorted for you

Klopp · 01-03-2021 1:35pm

Before i was constantly getting 58g extraction out of 18g between 35/45 seconds and had to increase my dose too to no effect with the yield. I set up the program option and adjusted my grind to taste, i am now getting more consistency with shots and find they're a lot tastier nicer too.

04-03-2021 12:04am

Is this still the best machine for around the price €600? Any others that are worth looking at..

Don't mind going a small bit over but wanted opinions, so hard to choose

FileNotFound · 04-03-2021 1:14am

Matias Modern Nanny wrote: »

Is this still the best machine for around the price €600? Any others that are worth looking at..

Don't mind going a small bit over but wanted opinions, so hard to choose

It's a good machine, new gaggia meant to be good but will have to buy a separate grinder so increasing the overall price.

Haven't seen too many others under 1k that challenge them

Sync · 04-03-2021 10:23am

Barista express is currently out for delivery... down the rabbit hole I go!

06-03-2021 2:16pm

So I got the machine yesterday, not having much luck so far.

Watched literally hours of videos on how to use it with non pressure baskets.

I'm measuring out 17 grams of beans on a scale and grinding them in the machine so it's exactly that weight.

With the grinder set to its lowest setting of 1 I'm getting pretty much no pressure at all.

I took out the grinder and set it to 4, it was at 6. Reground 18gramd of beans and left the grinder at 1 and now I'm getting towards the pressure I want .

Am I doing something wrong, how is the grinder so badly calibrated from the factory that I'm having to adjust it straight out of the box, seem like leaving it at a setting of 6 would never work with any beans..

I'm wondering if it's faulty, like to get the full scale in the side of the machine to actually work I'm going to have to set the inside of the grinder to 1

logistic · 06-03-2021 2:25pm

Any recommendations on where to buy filters?

FileNotFound · 06-03-2021 2:40pm

Matias Modern Nanny wrote: »

So I got the machine yesterday, not having much luck so far.

Watched literally hours of videos on how to use it with non pressure baskets.

I'm measuring out 17 grams of beans on a scale and grinding them in the machine so it's exactly that weight.

With the grinder set to its lowest setting of 1 I'm getting pretty much no pressure at all.

I took out the grinder and set it to 4, it was at 6. Reground 18gramd of beans and left the grinder at 1 and now I'm getting towards the pressure I want .

Am I doing something wrong, how is the grinder so badly calibrated from the factory that I'm having to adjust it straight out of the box, seem like leaving it at a setting of 6 would never work with any beans..

I'm wondering if it's faulty, like to get the full scale in the side of the machine to actually work I'm going to have to set the inside of the grinder to 1

Mine came at 6 and has stayed there. Works with side dial between 7-9

Lots of people mention grinder issues.

Just on thought. Why 17g of coffee in and 18g basket? How hard are you tamping?

FileNotFound · 06-03-2021 2:40pm

logistic wrote: »

Any recommendations on where to buy filters?

Velo have been good for me, Harvey Norman in a pinch.

skerry · 06-03-2021 2:48pm

Matias Modern Nanny wrote: »

So I got the machine yesterday, not having much luck so far.

Watched literally hours of videos on how to use it with non pressure baskets.

I'm measuring out 17 grams of beans on a scale and grinding them in the machine so it's exactly that weight.

With the grinder set to its lowest setting of 1 I'm getting pretty much no pressure at all.

I took out the grinder and set it to 4, it was at 6. Reground 18gramd of beans and left the grinder at 1 and now I'm getting towards the pressure I want .

Am I doing something wrong, how is the grinder so badly calibrated from the factory that I'm having to adjust it straight out of the box, seem like leaving it at a setting of 6 would never work with any beans..

I'm wondering if it's faulty, like to get the full scale in the side of the machine to actually work I'm going to have to set the inside of the grinder to 1

Are you measuring out 17 grams of beans, or are you ending up with 17grams ground in the portafilter?

06-03-2021 3:05pm

I've tried it with both 18g and 17g, I have the grinder completely empty and I'm putting in the exact amount of beans and grinding till it's empty to ensure an exact amount.

Reading this thread from the start I'm not the only one having th we issues, I'm not dealing with sage for months like other posters so I might just return it to the shop

skerry · 06-03-2021 3:08pm

Matias Modern Nanny wrote: »

I've tried it with both 18g and 17g, I have the grinder completely empty and I'm putting in the exact amount of beans and grinding till it's empty to ensure an exact amount.

Reading this thread from the start I'm not the only one having th we issues, I'm not dealing with sage for months like other posters so I might just return it to the shop

Have you tried filling the hopper and set it to grind out 18g? Its weird your getting no pressure at all. Are the beans roasted recently enough

06-03-2021 3:33pm

skerry wrote: »

Have you tried filling the hopper and set it to grind out 18g? Its weird your getting no pressure at all. Are the beans roasted recently enough

It's not the hopper I'm concerned about tbh,the way I am doing it should be more accurate than the machine will ever be . like I can mash 20g of beans in and I'm still only getting pressure with the internal burr set to 3 and the external set to 1. That means out of the box I'm going to to set the internal burr to 1 to get any sort of range, that can't be right for a 1 day old machine.

I used last night beans ground 21 Feb and today I just went up to Lidl to get some beans because I didn't want to waste good coffee. Surely no matter when the roast date you should still be getting pressure without having to go so low on the internal burr on a 1 day old machine.

skerry · 06-03-2021 3:47pm

Matias Modern Nanny wrote: »

It's not the hopper I'm concerned about tbh,the way I am doing it should be more accurate than the machine will ever be . like I can mash 20g of beans in and I'm still only getting pressure with the internal burr set to 3 and the external set to 1. That means out of the box I'm going to to set the internal burr to 1 to get any sort of range, that can't be right for a 1 day old machine.

I used last night beans ground 21 Feb and today I just went up to Lidl to get some beans because I didn't want to waste good coffee. Surely no matter when the roast date you should still be getting pressure without having to go so low on the internal burr on a 1 day old machine.

You should be getting higher pressure with fresher beans all settings being equal. I never had to mess with the grinder apart from standard adjustment on the dial to get decent pressure. My shots generally come out around just over 20 seconds on setting 1 on the grinder so there is room for improvement. I just put the portafilter on a scale which is zero'd and set the grind quantity dial so I'm getting around 18g out of the grinder, never weighed the beans going in just filled the hopper and weighted the ground coffee coming out

alec76 · 06-03-2021 3:48pm

My eyes hurt when reading this , what do you mean by “ getting no pressure “ ?
Your extraction is too fast or too slow ?
Can we get some numbers ie 40g Yield in 30s etc?

06-03-2021 4:03pm

As in when I pull a shot the pressure guage is reading no where near where it should be and the coffee is ground pretty much as fine as the machine can grind it so finer coffee should equal more pressure no?

My sister is actually over now and she worked in coffee shops for years, she reckons is ****ed. She said the grind is way too fine and how is it possible it's not over pressured not under .

alec76 · 06-03-2021 4:10pm

Matias Modern Nanny wrote: »

As in when I pull a shot the pressure guage is reading .

Oh, ignore this gauge , it is only a gimmick.
Only judge by the flow rate ie Yield in seconds.

Sage Barista Express

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