Do other countries give people money and houses like we do?

Wheeliebin30 · 15-06-2018 12:08pm

HydroTendonMan wrote: »

This is baseless. The fact that there are thousands on waiting lists and always has been shows this.

I am sure the 1000+ families living out of hotels in Dublin could tell you that.

No I’m saying that’s what some groups are advocating.

Irish Guitarist · 15-06-2018 1:29pm

When people say it would be a dream come true to live in some really hot country they never seem to think about the fact that they'll have to work their arse off in that country, or that if they ever develop health problems there will be no social welfare to help them and that when it comes to the stage in their life they should be thinking about retiring they'll have nothing.

Lucena · 15-06-2018 1:51pm

doolox wrote: »

In South America and such like you can build a house in a favela with minimal interference from councils and planning authorities. This does not happen in Ireland or any European country. Planning is the big obstacle to affordable housing. That and access to land.

I spent a little time in Mexico, and from what I observed, from speaking to people who lived there, and stuff I watched and read later, lack of planning is not something to aspire to.

I was in Mexico City, and there what often happened was people turned up and built wherever there was space available. Fine so far, you have a place to live.

But now you need water. Some places had no access to water, trucks came every so often and people queued up for it. But now you can get water, you produce waste water, where does that go? In the street, in a gulley, wherever you can put it.

Electricity? Just hook yourself up illegally to an existing power-line. That's fine, except everyone else is doing the same, leading to more power being drawn than was planned for, so brown-outs and black-outs occur.

You built in a flood-plain? Land affected by earthquakes (potential landslides for example)? In an area with no proper roads, so emergency services can't get in and out easily, assuming they can find you as your address doesn't even exist? Be grand.

A lot of the people I worked with were putting in 4-hour round trip commutes every day, possibly because the city is so spread out, due to lack of planning.

So yes, it may be easier to get stuff done in those places, but people's quality of life suffers immensly.

irishproduce · 15-06-2018 2:16pm

doolox wrote: »

In South America and such like you can build a house in a favela with minimal interference from councils and planning authorities. This does not happen in Ireland or any European country. Planning is the big obstacle to affordable housing. That and access to land.

Our huge problem is that the price of housing has greatly outstripped wages and what ordinary people can earn. Families with two or more children are competing with singles or childless couples sharing housing in the inner city and with adult children living into adulthood with their parents. Family people cannot compete with these at average wages. They are therefore forced to move into neighbouring counties and beyond if the want to have children and work and avoid renting at high cost.

High cost of land, high cost of construction labour and extremely high demand for housing is the cause of this. The current high taxes imposed on landlords also has contributed to a reduction in the pool of available houses for rent and the increasing reluctance of people to enter rental business.

The difficulty of getting rid of unpaying tenants is also a factor because the cost of enforcement is high and the risk of damage to property in the case of disputes is high. Many single house landlords are fleeing the business in the face of this risk.

Tenants in the future will face REITS, huge impersonal corporations with the financial clout to hire legal and technical expertise to enforce tenancy rules and collect overdue rents and damages done to properties much more effectively than small, single house, landlords could. Tenants will be treated this way so that the REITS can serve an example and terrorise other tenants into paying up and conforming to the rules.

The possibility exists that REITS will set up databases recording performance of tenants and their conformance to the rules similar to credit ratings available to finance companies and banks, nobody dares to default on their loans nowadays because of the risk of losing access to credit in the future.

A similar deterrent exists with motor insurance companies in that people with a high risk of claims are forced to pay high premiums for their insurance.

The tragic irony is that tenants in the recent past vilified and demonised the small landlord but they and the government have created a monster that will consume them all in corporate greed and irresistible power.

It will take a very long time to restore confidence in the small time landlord to re enter the letting market.

Have you many houses rented out yourself?

Hitman3000 · 15-06-2018 2:22pm

The daily whinge thread about social welfare etc..... I see a few FG fanboys have crawled out from under their rocks as usual. Deflection in progress. Carry on guys.

utyh2ikcq9z76b · 15-06-2018 2:23pm

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

When people say it would be a dream come true to live in some really hot country they never seem to think about the fact that they'll have to work their arse off in that country, or that if they ever develop health problems there will be no social welfare to help them and that when it comes to the stage in their life they should be thinking about retiring they'll have nothing.

Most people add a few million to the dream

mariaalice · 15-06-2018 3:50pm

Boards should have an award for...The most creative way to start a dole thread and a minor award for...The most obscure unrelated topic a poster has shoehorned a dole thread on to.

Walter Bishop · 15-06-2018 4:10pm

1) Why doesn't everyone who thinks life on the dole is so great just pack their job in and sign on? Answer: because they're talking bollocks.

2) No matter what system is in place, someone's going to abuse it. As a result, isn't it best to have a system that helps the most people possible, while they need it, and accept that some people are just going to stick there? If they didn't have the dole they'd be turning to other forms of generating income, not desirable is it?

3) Almost all money that's given out as dole is more or less immediately spent on food etc. and as a result is going straight back into the economy. You don't have to worry about anyone hording their dole or socking it away in some tax haven in St Kitts and Nevis. For that sort of thing you can look at bankers and the like.

RustyNut · 15-06-2018 4:16pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

What the left like Sinn Fein aaa pbp don’t get is, they want houses built for everyone who just says I need a house.

Where does it end??? You just ask for a house and there you go. 30 euro a week happy days.

There is talk of a right to housing, seriously the country will be bankrupt again in no time.

Don’t get started on the lefts thoughts on open borders, yet they moan there is no houses.

Why do you blame "the left" for everything when " the right" have been in power for years?

Hitman3000 · 15-06-2018 4:28pm

RustyNut wrote:

Why do you blame "the left" for everything when " the right" have been in power for years?

Deflection?

Pronto63 · 15-06-2018 5:01pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

There is talk of a right to housing, seriously the country will be bankrupt again in no time.

There is a right to shelter surely not a forever home.

Pronto63 · 15-06-2018 5:07pm

People survive on €193 or whatever for a lifetime.

I worked in SW for a while and saw the lifers. I won't say that it's easy or indeed comfortable but doable.

What annoyed me was that these layabouts were occupying a house in a Dublin suburb while colleagues were commuting an hour each way and driving past "Johnny Dolescrounger's" house to do a days work while Johnny was still in the pit!

end of the road · 15-06-2018 5:24pm

Pronto63 wrote: »

What annoyed me was that these layabouts were occupying a house in a Dublin suburb while colleagues were commuting an hour each way and driving past "Johnny Dolescrounger's" house to do a days work while Johnny was still in the pit!

unfortunately that is just the way it is . you will never have every worker living in the city or close to their job. commuting an hour each way while people would rather not have to do it is just a fact of life depending on your circumstances unfortunately.

James Brown · 15-06-2018 5:49pm

Do other countries give out tax money to private builders so they can make private profit, despite a housing crisis?

As upsetting as it is for the tory brigade, renting out state built social housing is cheaper than paying for hotels and B&B's, or buying homes off the market and pretending they are social builds, (like Murphy did) but I know it's better to cut your nose to spite your faces...

Some workers can't afford private/market rents, so we subsidise them or buy houses at market for them to rent off us. Some people are poor so we put them up in hotels...if only there was a cheaper way for our tax money to be spent... :rolleyes:

James Brown · 15-06-2018 5:57pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

No I’m saying that’s what some groups are advocating.

You just ask for a house and there you go. 30 euro a week happy days.

Name one?

Billy86 · 15-06-2018 6:05pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Not quite T. Of the modern variety Germany and France were ahead of them. The notion of social welfare goes a long way back. The Romans introduced food for the poor and they had pensions too. The Chinese had that and free medical and homes for the old and infirm. Ditto for the Islamic world. The Church in Europe was also a provider of aid to the poor.

I'm not 100% but I believe the first 'real/formal' roll out was under Bismarck in Germany, a guy who history doesn't give enough attention in a number of areas (probably due to being overshadowed by the lad a few decades later). Which is pretty ironic considering Bismarck was quite right-wing and actually introduced these to try and kill off socialism, which he had already been putting laws in place against.

The chap was some serious pragmatist, either way.

siblers · 15-06-2018 6:08pm

The_Brood wrote: »

In some countries it would be undreamed of.

Other countries give even more - but then the taxpayers themselves also get a fair amount of benefits, unlike here.

In Ireland, the absolute worst deal is for full time workers on a reasonable (not high) salary.

You can be full time on minimum wage and you'll be entitled to sweet **** all.

Billy86 · 15-06-2018 6:09pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Deflection?

I believe the word you are looking for is actually projection. The homeless issue has been a major talking point for the right in Ireland as to why we shouldn't allow any foreigners in.

Though by 'the left' he may mean PBP/AAA who can be very economical with the truth when it suits... not sure if they get a platform for a 'daily media onslaught' mind you but I don't watch TV news or read newspapers much these days wouldn't know either way.

Donald Trump · 15-06-2018 6:14pm

bluewolf wrote: »

We should just have a hunger games style set up and put unemployed people in it
How about that

It's set up and ready to go. Has been for decades. The test runs though have been too barbaric and inhuman.

You can actually visit the site, although, be warned that some of the test participants are still roaming around freely, devouring unsuspecting visitors.

The government code-name for the area is "Leitrim"

Taytoland · 15-06-2018 6:20pm

The left complain about a housing problem and yet want open borders and anyone can come in, just fly right in, take a seat lads, everything is free and you will get free housing. Idiots.

Wibbs · 15-06-2018 6:33pm

Billy86 wrote: »

I'm not 100% but I believe the first 'real/formal' roll out was under Bismarck in Germany, a guy who history doesn't give enough attention in a number of areas (probably due to being overshadowed by the lad a few decades later). Which is pretty ironic considering Bismarck was quite right-wing and actually introduced these to try and kill off socialism, which he had already been putting laws in place against.

The chap was some serious pragmatist, either way.

Funny enough the "lad a few decades later" also instigated a widespread social welfare drive, likely for the same reasons and to boast and advertise national socialism's advantages internally and externally. The Nazis introduced rent allowance, free creches, youth programmes, public housing, pensions, disability allowances, free or heavily subsidised medical care, retraining schemes, aid for the homeless and a shedload of public health schemes(they were the first to regulate tobacco and issue warnings against it). Pretty cool. If you were considered pure German. If you were Jewish or one of the others on the subhuman list... The Nazis had closed down and banned all private charities, so they could better direct any aid for their own benefit as the "correct politic" and a way to control who got what.

James Brown · 15-06-2018 6:50pm

Billy86 wrote: »

I believe the word you are looking for is actually projection. The homeless issue has been a major talking point for the right in Ireland as to why we shouldn't allow any foreigners in.

Though by 'the left' he may mean PBP/AAA who can be very economical with the truth when it suits... not sure if they get a platform for a 'daily media onslaught' mind you but I don't watch TV news or read newspapers much these days wouldn't know either way.

To be fair the same can be said about Fine Gael, specifically with Murphy recently fudging his housing build numbers.

Zebra3 · 15-06-2018 8:00pm

Taytoland wrote: »

The left complain about a housing problem and yet want open borders and anyone can come in, just fly right in, take a seat lads, everything is free and you will get free housing. Idiots.

No, you are confusing the “left” with colonial settlers and their racist ethnic cleansing.

JohnMc1 · 15-06-2018 8:59pm

The Welfare state only works when the population is kept at a stable level. This is why the Left's Open Borders pipe dream is always doomed to failure. They can't have it both ways.

somefeen · 15-06-2018 9:09pm

Boards needs a separate forum for these threads.
The Miserable, Middle-Class Rants Forum has a nice ring to it.

irishrebe · 15-06-2018 9:09pm

Your Face wrote: »

Social welfare is not the problem.
It's the abuse of it.
Like another poster stated, if you re a working person on a low to middle wage, its easy to get the feeling of being made a mug.

This is absolutely how I felt when I still lived in Dublin. Scraping together money to go to the doctor, and often not going when I needed to, while neighbours who hadn't worked in years were going once a week for every last little stupid thing. Buying clothes in charity shops, if at all, while neighbours were coming home with shopping bags every weekend. Getting up at 5am to wait in the freezing cold and pouring rain for the bus to get to work while they were getting up at 10-11 to go out to the shop in their pyjamas. It drove me half mental. I was working so hard and my life wasn't a bit better than people who weren't working at all. I was paying taxes to support people who weren't fcked working. Now I know a lot of people can't work, and that's why social welfare is there, but plenty of people are just taking the absolute p1ss. I felt like there was no reward for working hard in Ireland.

oneilla · 15-06-2018 9:12pm

irishrebe wrote: »

This is absolutely how I felt when I still lived in Dublin. Scraping together money to go to the doctor, and often not going when I needed to, while neighbours who hadn't worked in years were going once a week for every last little stupid thing. Buying clothes in charity shops, if at all, while neighbours were coming home with shopping bags every weekend. Getting up at 5am to wait in the freezing cold and pouring rain for the bus to get to work while they were getting up at 10-11 to go out to the shop in their pyjamas. It drove me half mental. I was working so hard and my life wasn't a bit better than people who weren't working at all. I was paying taxes to support people who weren't fcked working. Now I know a lot of people can't work, and that's why social welfare is there, but plenty of people are just taking the absolute p1ss. I felt like there was no reward for working hard in Ireland.

If you were in work then how did you see the neighbours going to the shops at 10? Hmm...

oneilla · 15-06-2018 9:14pm

somefeen wrote: »

Boards needs a separate forum for these threads.
The Miserable, Middle-Class Rants Forum has a nice ring to it.

There's a Ranting forum afaik. Or maybe they could just setup 1 welfare bashing thread rather than a new one every other day

somefeen · 15-06-2018 9:18pm

irishrebe wrote: »

This is absolutely how I felt when I still lived in Dublin. Scraping together money to go to the doctor, and often not going when I needed to, while neighbours who hadn't worked in years were going once a week for every last little stupid thing. Buying clothes in charity shops, if at all, while neighbours were coming home with shopping bags every weekend. Getting up at 5am to wait in the freezing cold and pouring rain for the bus to get to work while they were getting up at 10-11 to go out to the shop in their pyjamas. It drove me half mental. I was working so hard and my life wasn't a bit better than people who weren't working at all. I was paying taxes to support people who weren't fcked working. Now I know a lot of people can't work, and that's why social welfare is there, but plenty of people are just taking the absolute p1ss. I felt like there was no reward for working hard in Ireland.

You are always better off working.
The people you envied are at the mercy of the dole. They have no control over their own destiny. A working person can use their experience to find a better job, get promoted or start a business. A person with a job has real opportunities in life and real control over where their life takes them.

Also people on the dole coming home with shopping bags every weekend? Guarantee they can't manage money, its a boom bust cycle for people like that.
Don't be jealous, no matter how cushy it looks from afar, its a life you don't want.

SEPT 23 1989 · 15-06-2018 9:22pm

I don't remember people putting the boot into the poor during the last boom too busy enjoying ourselves

Do other countries give people money and houses like we do?

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