New Worldwide Handicap System

blue note · 18-10-2020 10:51am

Yep, I'm corballis. You have to remember though that the average boards member is young for a golfer, and likely not struggling for distance relative to the average golfer. So corballis being so short is a huge thing for the average golfer. So I do think it's right that it's rated as easy.

But the rating seems a bit extreme. And not appropriate for younger golfers.

Seve OB · 18-10-2020 12:43pm

I deffo think Cor Blimey Corballis is an easier course and handicaps should be lower when playing it and when members play away from home they would probably see their playing handicaps a bit higher. mainly as mentioned above because of it being so short.

jp101 · 18-10-2020 3:11pm

Does anyone know what will happen at the point the new system kicks in. I’ve had a poor year and have gotten my 10 .1s back and I guess that my best 8 would give me at least 3 and perhaps more back. Will that happen straight away? I know there are caps involved but not sure how that works at cut over.

prawnsambo · 18-10-2020 4:16pm

jp101 wrote: »

Does anyone know what will happen at the point the new system kicks in. I’ve had a poor year and have gotten my 10 .1s back and I guess that my best 8 would give me at least 3 and perhaps more back. Will that happen straight away? I know there are caps involved but not sure how that works at cut over.

Straight away - CONGU ends and WHS starts. Caps only apply within the WHS and don't have any crossover with CONGU.

jp101 · 18-10-2020 4:39pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Straight away - CONGU ends and WHS starts. Caps only apply within the WHS and don't have any crossover with CONGU.

Thanks for that. That won’t feel good but I suppose it is what it is.

DuckSlice · 18-10-2020 4:43pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

The simple explanation is that your handicap for a course can be looked up on a table displayed in the clubhouse and you write that number on your scorecard*.

*These days (Covid permitting) all the information will be on the label that's printed out when you enter a competition on the computer. So no change really.

My course has this table up now, I looked at my category where the calculator says I will be. 8.5-9.6 i think it was which I found odd. I’ll play off 9.

prawnsambo · 18-10-2020 4:58pm

etxp wrote: »

My course has this table up now, I looked at my category where the calculator says I will be. 8.5-9.6 i think it was which I found odd. I’ll play off 9.

Why odd? The table works back from the course handicap, so a 9 course handicap will be allocated to a range of handicap indexes.

Mantis Toboggan · 18-10-2020 8:15pm

jp101 wrote: »

Does anyone know what will happen at the point the new system kicks in. I’ve had a poor year and have gotten my 10 .1s back and I guess that my best 8 would give me at least 3 and perhaps more back. Will that happen straight away? I know there are caps involved but not sure how that works at cut over.

Apparently our club will be keeping the congu handicaps converted to winter handicaps until qualifying restarts in April. Just what I heard today but could be BS.

prawnsambo · 18-10-2020 8:30pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Apparently our club will be keeping the congu handicaps converted to winter handicaps until qualifying restarts in April. Just want I heard today but could be BS.

Qualifying comps can be held after November 2nd. It's not like you have to stop them until April. In fact clubs are encouraged to have as many qualifying comps as possible, hence some of the model local rules.

PARlance · 18-10-2020 9:10pm

Any word if the GUI will be using Nov 1 as the cut off for lowest previous year HC / for club teams etc?

There will be lots of unhappy captains if they stick to the calendar year. That's based on the assumption that most people will lose a shot or two.

macslash · 18-10-2020 9:14pm

Sorry if this question makes no sense but will our HI replace our Handicap on competition results on HDID etc? I'm guessing there'll be no 'new' HI either listed? Thanks

prawnsambo · 18-10-2020 9:17pm

macslash wrote: »

Sorry if this question makes no sense but will our HI replace our Handicap on competition results on HDID etc? I'm guessing there'll be no 'new' HI either listed? Thanks

Yes to the first. Can't figure out what you're asking in the second.

Seve OB · 18-10-2020 9:31pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Apparently our club will be keeping the congu handicaps converted to winter handicaps until qualifying restarts in April. Just what I heard today but could be BS.

But your new handicap will be on golf Ireland. I don’t see how your club can decide to “keep” your old handicaps as its not really their decision.

prawnsambo · 18-10-2020 9:34pm

Seve OB wrote: »

But your new handicap will be on golf Ireland. I don’t see how your club can decide to “keep” your old handicaps as its not really their decision.

I took it to mean that they would be running NQ competitions in the winter using the old CONGU handicaps. All run internally without GolfNet.

fred funk }{ · 18-10-2020 9:36pm

Seve OB wrote: »

But your new handicap will be on golf Ireland. I don’t see how your club can decide to “keep” your old handicaps as its not really their decision.

For non qualifying golf they can pretty much make up any rule they want and use whatever system they want.

Mantis Toboggan · 18-10-2020 9:39pm

fred funk }{ wrote: »

For non qualifying golf they can pretty much make up any rule they want and use whatever system they want.

That's it, winter handicaps have always been managed internally in the club.

Seve OB · 18-10-2020 9:42pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

That's it, winter handicaps have always been managed internally in the club.

Ah ok. So if you play an open or something you will have access to your new WHS index

macslash · 19-10-2020 1:17am

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yes to the first. Can't figure out what you're asking in the second.

What I meant was after a competition your new handicap is given, on HDID anyway. I.e. if you got .1 back or got cut an amount and have a new handicap. Will this be the same or what? My understanding (which is probably wrong) was that we wouldn't really know our HI until the day of a comp when we register in the clubhouse. Sorry if I've gotten this ar$eways.

prawnsambo · 19-10-2020 8:45am

macslash wrote: »

What I meant was after a competition your new handicap is given, on HDID anyway. I.e. if you got .1 back or got cut an amount and have a new handicap. Will this be the same or what? My understanding (which is probably wrong) was that we wouldn't really know our HI until the day of a comp when we register in the clubhouse. Sorry if I've gotten this ar$eways.

No, you should know within a day. There was some discussion as to whether your HI would be visible in club software or not, but my understanding is that it will. There will also be an app from GUI/Golf Ireland that will give you this info too.

kennethrhcp · 19-10-2020 11:03am

kennethrhcp wrote: »

Hi lads, is golfnet updating with our new handicaps? I'm currently off 8.6 which is right and all scores have been processed. My club records still show me at 8.6 but golfnet tonight has my exact at 8.2

A friend of mine is currently off 7.4 but golfnet has him down as 6.4

golfnet back to my correct handicap now. was a strange one

GreeBo · 19-10-2020 11:18am

jp101 wrote: »

Thanks for that. That won’t feel good but I suppose it is what it is.

I guess its a toss up between feeling bad being off (lets pick 18) versus feeling bad having 28 points off 15

TheFarneyman · 19-10-2020 12:21pm

Is there still a non qualifying winter or is that done away with under the new system?

prawnsambo · 19-10-2020 12:36pm

TheFarneyman wrote: »

Is there still a non qualifying winter or is that done away with under the new system?

Non-qualifying is still non-qualifying. It's worth noting though, that qualifying competitions can still be held during the winter, provided that the rules of golf have not been altered to the point that they no longer apply in some circumstances. Such as placing in the rough or more than 50% of bunkers being out of play etc.

Rikand · 19-10-2020 1:10pm

PARlance wrote: »

Any word if the GUI will be using Nov 1 as the cut off for lowest previous year HC / for club teams etc?

There will be lots of unhappy captains if they stick to the calendar year. That's based on the assumption that most people will lose a shot or two.

If that happens though, every club will be in the same boat so it wont make any difference

prawnsambo · 19-10-2020 1:33pm

Rikand wrote: »

If that happens though, every club will be in the same boat so it wont make any difference

Plus it won't be from November 1st since handicap indexes will go back 20 competitions/scores anyway.

Seve OB · 19-10-2020 2:39pm

PARlance wrote: »

Any word if the GUI will be using Nov 1 as the cut off for lowest previous year HC / for club teams etc?

There will be lots of unhappy captains if they stick to the calendar year. That's based on the assumption that most people will lose a shot or two.

From listening to the GUI podcast it sounds like most people will actually go out a tiny bit, in the main (I think they said 85%) Will be little to no difference. It’s the lower guys who are more likely to go down

PARlance · 19-10-2020 3:43pm

Rikand wrote: »

If that happens though, every club will be in the same boat so it wont make any difference

Oh ya, I understand that but I was playing with a captain recently and he had the guys of his team for next year more or less mapped out. I hadn't the heart to say that there could be a lot of changes with the new system.

GreeBo · 19-10-2020 4:36pm

Seve OB wrote: »

From listening to the GUI podcast it sounds like most people will actually go out a tiny bit, in the main (I think they said 85%) Will be little to no difference. It’s the lower guys who are more likely to go down

Looks like I will lose a shot based on my very rough calculation of average from best 8.
Nett differentials:
-2
-3
-4
-1
0
+1
+1
0

Averaging exactly 4 over against CSS

username?! · 19-10-2020 10:50pm

Will there be a list of course slopes and ratings?

KevH1984 · 20-10-2020 8:04am

I'm in a similar boat to you off my rough calculations from my last 20 counting competitions. Currently 3.9 exact, new WHS average +1.7 over par so I'd say I'm definitely going to lose 1 if not 2 shots. Going to be big changes come next year if that's the case.

GreeBo · 20-10-2020 8:58am

KevH1984 wrote: »

I'm in a similar boat to you off my rough calculations from my last 20 counting competitions. Currently 3.9 exact, new WHS average +1.7 over par so I'd say I'm definitely going to lose 1 if not 2 shots. Going to be big changes come next year if that's the case.

Could be curtains for your interclub career!

KevH1984 · 20-10-2020 9:39am

GreeBo wrote: »

Could be curtains for your interclub career!

ðŸ˜¢ðŸ˜¢ðŸ˜¢ðŸ˜¢

We'll make the best of it anyway

prawnsambo · 20-10-2020 10:09am

Clubs will have sight of member's new handicap indexes this week. They are being asked to review them and assess whether any might need an adjustment. Some changes to scorecards are also advised with spaces for handicap index, course handicap and playing handicap.

Russman · 20-10-2020 10:22am

prawnsambo wrote: »

Clubs will have sight of member's new handicap indexes this week. They are being asked to review them and assess whether any might need an adjustment. Some changes to scorecards are also advised with spaces for handicap index, course handicap and playing handicap.

Now there's a thankless task if ever there was one !

Actually how will that work in practice ?
If someone's best 8 from last 20 throws up an index of say, 12, and the club decide for whatever reason that's too high and Joe should be off 10, what will happen when he plays his next round and the system looks at his best 8 again ? Won't it likely just throw up another index of 12 ? I've a feeling I'm missing something here !

finglashoop · 20-10-2020 10:25am

prawnsambo wrote: »

Clubs will have sight of member's new handicap indexes this week. They are being asked to review them and assess whether any might need an adjustment. Some changes to scorecards are also advised with spaces for handicap index, course handicap and playing handicap.

Why are they reviewing?
Best 8 from 20 on a rolling 20 scored should require no intervention i would have thought

gypsy79 · 20-10-2020 10:33am

I would read it that they are getting the clubs to do a further peer review of the results of the algorithm

Anything reported will be used for final testing. Mick wont even open it. I nearly considered offering to do it for him!

finglashoop · 20-10-2020 10:47am

gypsy79 wrote: »

I would read it that they are getting the clubs to do a further peer review of the results of the algorithm

Anything reported will be used for final testing. Mick wont even open it. I nearly considered offering to do it for him!

And if they were to adjust a players initial index, when the player plays his next round the calculations will correct him to where he should be

paulos53 · 20-10-2020 10:48am

Russman wrote: »

Now there's a thankless task if ever there was one !

Actually how will that work in practice ?
If someone's best 8 from last 20 throws up an index of say, 12, and the club decide for whatever reason that's too high and Joe should be off 10, what will happen when he plays his next round and the system looks at his best 8 again ? Won't it likely just throw up another index of 12 ? I've a feeling I'm missing something here !

The way ESR works is to reduce the differential of your past 20 scores by 1 or 2 shots so that future handicap updates will automatically handle the cut.

I assume any cuts from the club will work the same way

20-10-2020 11:02am

They are being asked to review where there is a difference of 3 or more between current playing handicap and proposed Handicap Index. This is fair enough I suppose as it might throw up a few outliers.

willabur · 20-10-2020 11:04am

Just got an ESR from my last round before lockdown#2
with normal cut that drops me from 12 to 10.7 in one go
I just recalculated my handicap using the calc pasted here before
Handicap = 12

prawnsambo · 20-10-2020 11:11am

finglashoop wrote: »

Why are they reviewing?
Best 8 from 20 on a rolling 20 scored should require no intervention i would have thought

I would imagine there are a number of reasons for this. ESRs were mentioned above although they are reported to have been taken into account in the WHS calculations. The impact of the one stroke limit has to be considered. Generally these are dealt with in the annual review, but I reckon the start of WHS would work as a substitute for this. Players who have few rounds in the current season and have been assessed over more than one year (the look-back was to be up to three years) may have inaccurate handicaps. And then there's the possibility that slope ratings aren't as accurate as they should be (and I think that's probably true anecdotally anyway) so large variances would highlight this. If you remember, the advice was not to put course and slope ratings on scorecards as they would be under review in the initial period.

Finally, the highlighted variances would be in the order of more than three strokes, so this would not affect too many imo.

GreeBo · 20-10-2020 11:44am

I guess it would only be higher handicaps that would see a 3+ shot change.

finglashoop · 20-10-2020 11:48am

prawnsambo wrote: »

I would imagine there are a number of reasons for this. ESRs were mentioned above although they are reported to have been taken into account in the WHS calculations. The impact of the one stroke limit has to be considered. Generally these are dealt with in the annual review, but I reckon the start of WHS would work as a substitute for this. Players who have few rounds in the current season and have been assessed over more than one year (the look-back was to be up to three years) may have inaccurate handicaps. And then there's the possibility that slope ratings aren't as accurate as they should be (and I think that's probably true anecdotally anyway) so large variances would highlight this. If you remember, the advice was not to put course and slope ratings on scorecards as they would be under review in the initial period.

Finally, the highlighted variances would be in the order of more than three strokes, so this would not affect too many imo.

But will it not be a constant recalculation when you play a game unless best 8 stay the same. So if manual intervention is there, how does the system keep that in the next calculation?

spacecoyote · 20-10-2020 12:12pm

Was running my scores through the calculator to see where I'm likely to be at. One thing I've noted is that I have an NR from a society outing earlier in the year, when we played Portmarnock, which would be among my last 20 qualifiers.

We played the society outing, and I forgot to put my score in to the computer afterwards (was a bit distracted as it was the first society outing of the year & was doing presentations, etc...) Any ideas on how that NR would be treated from a calculation perspective. Will it just be skipped, so I should exclude it from the the calculation and include another one at the end, or would I get some sort of default score of Net-Double for every hole for the round?

Curious if anyone knows the treatment for initial calculation purposes?

I excluded it for the purpose of trying to get an approximation, and came up with 9.1 (currently at 10.3)

GreeBo · 20-10-2020 12:16pm

spacecoyote wrote: »

Was running my scores through the calculator to see where I'm likely to be at. One thing I've noted is that I have an NR from a society outing earlier in the year, when we played Portmarnock, which would be among my last 20 qualifiers.

We played the society outing, and I forgot to put my score in to the computer afterwards (was a bit distracted as it was the first society outing of the year & was doing presentations, etc...) Any ideas on how that NR would be treated from a calculation perspective. Will it just be skipped, so I should exclude it from the the calculation and include another one at the end, or would I get some sort of default score of Net-Double for every hole for the round?

Curious if anyone knows the treatment for initial calculation purposes?

I excluded it for the purpose of trying to get an approximation, and came up with 9.1 (currently at 10.3)

From the systems point of view that shouldnt be part of your best 8?

Seve OB · 20-10-2020 12:34pm

spacecoyote wrote: »

Was running my scores through the calculator to see where I'm likely to be at. One thing I've noted is that I have an NR from a society outing earlier in the year, when we played Portmarnock, which would be among my last 20 qualifiers.

We played the society outing, and I forgot to put my score in to the computer afterwards (was a bit distracted as it was the first society outing of the year & was doing presentations, etc...) Any ideas on how that NR would be treated from a calculation perspective. Will it just be skipped, so I should exclude it from the the calculation and include another one at the end, or would I get some sort of default score of Net-Double for every hole for the round?

Curious if anyone knows the treatment for initial calculation purposes?

I excluded it for the purpose of trying to get an approximation, and came up with 9.1 (currently at 10.3)

it would be skipped, as you need to have at least 10 holes played i believe for it to count

GreeBo wrote: »

From the systems point of view that shouldnt be part of your best 8?

true, but skipping or including could make a difference as it will bring in another card by skipping it.

macslash · 20-10-2020 12:52pm

spacecoyote wrote: »

Was running my scores through the calculator to see where I'm likely to be at. One thing I've noted is that I have an NR from a society outing earlier in the year, when we played Portmarnock, which would be among my last 20 qualifiers.

We played the society outing, and I forgot to put my score in to the computer afterwards (was a bit distracted as it was the first society outing of the year & was doing presentations, etc...) Any ideas on how that NR would be treated from a calculation perspective. Will it just be skipped, so I should exclude it from the the calculation and include another one at the end, or would I get some sort of default score of Net-Double for every hole for the round?

Curious if anyone knows the treatment for initial calculation purposes?

I excluded it for the purpose of trying to get an approximation, and came up with 9.1 (currently at 10.3)

Where can you find this calculator? Thanks

blue note · 20-10-2020 1:03pm

I'm totally getting shots back. Average of 29.5 points from my last 20 rounds, 19 of them on an easy course. Average of my best 8 is 34.25, 7 on an easy course.

And I deserve the shots too. Average 26 points in my last 5 competitive rounds.

willabur · 20-10-2020 1:04pm

macslash wrote: »

Where can you find this calculator? Thanks

https://www.calculator.net/golf-handicap-calculator.html

spacecoyote · 20-10-2020 1:24pm

Seve OB wrote: »

it would be skipped, as you need to have at least 10 holes played i believe for it to count

true, but skipping or including could make a difference as it will bring in another card by skipping it.

That's it, the round wouldn't be in my best 8,but it bumps the other rounds down a round, as it's the 10th round in my lineup.

New Worldwide Handicap System

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