Laggy monitors and the future of the irish fighting game scene

chunkis · 04-08-2011 12:25pm

Yeah this is a pretty big issue, I played on 2 maybe 3 of the monitors and they were all the same, they were all as bad as each other, I was actually a bit shocked at how much lag was on the screens. The lag actually forced me to choose between picking zangief or honda, its a bad state of affairs when the lag on the screen determines the character you pick in a tournament.

Ive never really cared much about winning or placing high at our local tournaments, but i do care about how i perform on the game and i want to be able to play the game the way i know i can. We keep talking about how we want the level of play to go up and how we want to improve our games, well it starts with the laggy monitors, the lag has to go if we all going to improve and get better.

Its unacceptable at this stage and we need to sort it out, it needs to be done before we even think about any future events or buying podcast equipment or anything like that, but because its going to cost an arm and a leg to buy new screens i think in the meantime we should definitely buy one or two CRTs from adverts and leave them in the exchange and use them for the top 8/finals of all the inferno tournaments, neoempire use CRTs for the top 8 matches at svb and i think we should do the same, at least then the finals will be lag free and there wont be any complaints, its a cheap and temporary solution to the problem at least until we can aford to buy new screens.

Also it might be a good idea to ask the guys in the xgc if we could leave 1 or 2 tvs there as well, i know they might not agree, but there is no harm is asking, loads of people are giving away 14inch tvs on adverts and i saw a few very nice 20inch tvs going for 10 or 15 euros, it would be totally worth it to have a couple of lag free tvs at casuals, especially since 3rd strike is coming out at the end of the month.

ayjayirl · 04-08-2011 1:46pm

Am I wrong or does dropped combo's have nothing to do with lag? Not sure of the logic in picking another character because of lag. Surely, Zangief and Honda are just as prone to lag as the other character - LMAO!

If, as Chopper has mentioned, the lag is 12ms then I challenge anyone to notice less than 1 frame of lag - and consider the following (http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/index.php) Test your response times lads! 12ms - gimmie a break.

Resolution should be set correctly, and if you don't know the correct setting, like I don't, I ask someone there. Not rocket science.

Oh and to the argument that there is lag etc and 'its soo different to at home' - I say could it be a lag thing at home. Are we all crt'ing it up at home? I certainly am not and need to adjust to the inferno monitors...... I need to change, not the TV/Monitor.

This really isn't an argument you can back up with any reasoned logic imo.

bush · 04-08-2011 1:59pm

ayjayirl wrote: »

Resolution should be set correctly, and if you don't know the correct setting, like I don't, I ask someone there. Not rocket science.

The monitors should be set up properly by whoever is running the tourney, you cant really expect people to even know the resolution is wrong.
The monitor that was being used beside the recording setup had big black borders on it and was never fixed from what i saw on saturday

Doctor DooM · 04-08-2011 2:02pm

Was just checking out me vs hound in the exchange (sorry for bringing that up again hound) where I hit 3 combos which rely on 1 frame links and he misses a similar amount. Hound, obviously, has waaaay better execution than I.

That's in the same match. Hound has never once blamed lag for losing. If there was lag, and it effected combos like some people seem to think here, surely he would adapt to the screen quicker than I as the player with superior execution, and my UDK combos would have been harmlessly blocked, my boom-sweep combos too (which rely on a visual hit confirm). During the match you will hear Dreddy talking about how I was hitting them all day.

This argument doesn't make sense. I will repeat again: The monitors are fine IF the xbox resolution is set correctly. I think it's 1280 x 720, but in general I will ask Dan/ Chopper when I get there.

The problem here is actually that we need to ensure all xboxes are put to the correct resolution when we're setting up, which is not something I have been doing personally.

I remember when I first tested the hauppage. The hauppage is well known for the fact it causes zero lag. Yet, I immediately got complaints about it lagging.

Just putting that out there.

Doctor DooM · 04-08-2011 2:03pm

bush wrote: »

The monitors should be set up properly by whoever is running the tourney, you cant really expect people to even know the resolution is wrong.
The monitor that was being used beside the recording setup had big black borders on it and was never fixed from what i saw on saturday

You're 100% correct on that but Saturday was a difficult situation.

ayjayirl · 04-08-2011 2:05pm

bush wrote: »

The monitors should be set up properly by whoever is running the tourney, you cant really expect people to even know the resolution is wrong.
The monitor that was being used beside the recording setup had big black borders on it and was never fixed from what i saw on saturday

Is this bush volunteering to ensure the resolution is set right when setting up a tournament?

Azza · 04-08-2011 2:18pm

You have to be careful going by the manufacturers advertise specs. Frequently they are misleading, be it contrast ratio or response time.

Still obviously the lower the advertise response time the better. But your probably best trying to independently test it, if you have the correct software to do so.

Having borrowed one of those monitors for a week and half, I think they are quite good. I got use to it, its better than my own in regards respone time. But it took me a few hours to adjust. The more I went to casuals in the XGC the more use to the monitors I got, but again it took me several sessions to adapt. You can adapt to anything but I think different people adapt at different speeds.

My home monitor is very laggy, 64ms or 4 frame lag (its a very good monitor, just not for competitive gaming) but I long since adjusted to it. I think people who play the most at home will notice the diffrences between monitors the most.

As for the resolution. Are the monitors 16:10 or 16:9 aspect ratio. The game runs natively at 1280x720 and thats a 16:9 resolution. I think the monitors are 16:10, native resolution of 1680x1050. If you set the game to 1280x720 you will have quite large black bars (your also loosing some side space). If you set it to the next closest 16:10 resolution which is 1280x800 you will get a stretched screen.

Vyze · 04-08-2011 2:20pm

To be honest, most of the "lag" complaints is probably just someone in a different position than what they're used to at home. Execution can drop just from being in a different chair or looking at a different angle to the TV. If the TVs have objectively been tested to have an unnoticeable amount of lag, then players should up their game to the next level and start bringing their sofas from home to tournaments.

bush · 04-08-2011 4:15pm

ayjayirl wrote: »

Is this bush volunteering to ensure the resolution is set right when setting up a tournament?

Ill do it no problem if you really need someone to do it

UberPrinny_Baal · 04-08-2011 4:25pm

So does the resolution need to be changed on:

The monitors
The consoles
Both

and to what for each?

Vyze wrote: »

Execution can drop just from being in a different chair or looking at a different angle to the TV.

The different chair thing is killer. My new couch is far lower down than my old couch, and I wasn't able to make quarter-circle motions without jumping all over the place. I had to go grab a high backed wooden chair from the kitchen to be able to play properly.

Ramza · 04-08-2011 6:25pm

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

So does the resolution need to be changed on:
The monitors

The consoles

Both

and to what for each?

The different chair thing is killer. My new couch is far lower down than my old couch, and I wasn't able to make quarter-circle motions without jumping all over the place. I had to go grab a high backed wooden chair from the kitchen to be able to play properly.

I've only ever had problems position wise on stick, on pad I can play fine no matter what angle or seat or w/e (obviously within reason :pac: ). I've been playing pad 100% recently so I guess it's a plus. Of course stick requires more arm movement etc

But doesn't TV lag affect your combos too? I guess not as much as anti airing or footsies.

ogiekeaney · 04-08-2011 7:08pm

the one time i played in xgc i found it to be rediculously laggy. took me around an 3 hours to get used to it.

chunkis · 04-08-2011 8:13pm

The montiors at the doc lag and they need to be changed so we need to find a way to create funding to replace them, all the testing in the world isn`t going to change the fact that they lag.

and lol@ some of the comments with regards to lag and where people sit home ect, i thought you guys were a little crasy, but now i think your all mental lol. And just for the record lag has nothing to do with where you sit, just to be clear lol

Speed Boat · 04-08-2011 8:19pm

chunkis wrote: »

And just for the record lag has nothing to do with where you sit, just to be clear lol

Perceived/imagined lag does(which is often the case). Due to people being out of their comfort zone and so on.

Also the debate on the monitors is pretty much pointless. Someone just check the lag, via one of the recommended methods, next time there's a chance.

They lag vs they don't lag is going nowhere.

Vyze · 04-08-2011 8:47pm

chunkis wrote: »

And just for the record lag has nothing to do with where you sit, just to be clear lol

ITT chunkis ignores all other possibilities for him losing at games except for the fault of the equipment

PPC · 04-08-2011 9:10pm

A bad worker always blames their tools...

The monitor Chunkis listed has 11ms of input lag, so thats 1ms less than the Inferno monitors or 0.0625 of a frame.
At 12ms, those monitors have .72 of a frame of lag over a CRT.
If a few people were to check the setups before a competition starts I'm sure it would resolve any lag issue.

What resolution should the xbox's be set to?

stev0knev022 · 04-08-2011 11:42pm

Lets just make sure all the monitors in the exchange are set up correctly for the next tournament and then judge it off that.

The Hound vs Doom monitor was crap, i played on it a couple of times that day and it sucked, everything felt heavy and it was a problem. Hound told me himself he thought the monitor was bad................ fwiw.

animaX · 05-08-2011 12:16am

ogiekeaney wrote: »

the one time i played in xgc i found it to be rediculously laggy. took me around an 3 hours to get used to it.

Was that for the team tourny? I think I remember you being at that. If so, that was due to an experimental direct-record setup that myself and sisko were testing. That was seriously laggy but not representative of xgc monitors in general.

If I've got the wrong person, ignore me!

LIFETRAP · 05-08-2011 12:59am

At the next tournament or whatever event it would be an idea to lower the prize money or only pay out to first place and keep money to put towards new monitors.

Red350 · 05-08-2011 1:59am

ayjayirl wrote: »

If, as Chopper has mentioned, the lag is 12ms then I challenge anyone to notice less than 1 frame of lag - and consider the following (http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/index.php) Test your response times lads! 12ms - gimmie a break.

12ms is very good, but saying its completely negligible is ridiculous. The issue with lag isn't dropping combos, its reacting to you opponent, and that 12ms will always be added to whatever your own reactions are.
There will always be borderline cases where you miss a whiff punish by 1 frame due to those 12ms, games can be won or lost on those situations.

If its in any way viable, I think 1 or 2 crt's for the later stages of our tournaments would be brilliant, but if not, 12ms is still pretty good going.

Dreddybajs · 05-08-2011 7:36am

The monitors have a sticker saying 1440x900 on them so that's what I set them to. You get black bars for some reason but it doesn't seem to lag.

PPC · 05-08-2011 8:49am

Dreddybajs wrote: »

The monitors have a sticker saying 1440x900 on them so that's what I set them to. You get black bars for some reason but it doesn't seem to lag.

1440x900 is 16:10
The games run in 16:9 so 1366x768 would the closest full screen ratio, but as its not the native resolution, the monitor has to do some magic to make it fit nicely which would probably cause lag.

Dreddybajs · 05-08-2011 9:44am

Guess ye should just deal with the black bars then lads. :pac:

Placebo · 05-08-2011 9:56am

i think everyone needs to calm down, this isnt third strike.

bush · 05-08-2011 10:39am

Well at least now we everyone will know if it doesnt have black borders its at the wrong resolution.

ogiekeaney · 05-08-2011 1:57pm

animaX wrote: »

Was that for the team tourny? I think I remember you being at that. If so, that was due to an experimental direct-record setup that myself and sisko were testing. That was seriously laggy but not representative of xgc monitors in general.

If I've got the wrong person, ignore me!

jeez, someone has a good memory. yes i remember apologizing to you for that chip death with a full screen blanka ball.it was so laggy that i dont think you had time to react. my apology did come off as a bit absurd though.

I did find the other screens laggy also, it put off my tech throws, electricity combos etc...... And I certainly didnt imagine it or was using it as an excuse.

Voa · 05-08-2011 9:54pm

Placebo wrote: »

i think everyone needs to calm down, this isnt third strike.

Yet.

Speed Boat · 05-08-2011 11:44pm

I think everyone should panic, we're not playing third strike!

Owwmykneecap · 06-08-2011 10:30am

Voa wrote: »

Yet.

You. I want to get into that stupid game you like.

Do you have BB on the 360?

Does anyone?

Laggy monitors and the future of the irish fighting game scene

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