Laggy monitors and the future of the irish fighting game scene

chunkis

Hi guys,

This is a bit of a long post, but hopefully its an interesting enough read, please take the time to go through it and post feedback.

First of all let me talk about the monitors at the exhange, they are very laggy and not much better than the xgc. We need to pick up some new tvs/monitors because its a bit ridiculous at this stage that our offline tournaments are riddled with lag. A lot of people at the doc complained about the tvs/monitors and its something that needs to be addressed.

Laggy tvs are unacceptable for tournament play, for casuals people don`t really care that much, but tournament play should be taken seriously especially if the level of play is going to get better, we need better playing conditions if we want to increase the standard of play in our community.

I spoke to worstgiefever and he told me the guys at gamerbase in the uk are going to invest in a bunch of these monitors. Maybe we should pick one up and see what its like?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/ProLite-E2208HDS-2--Quality-Warranty-standard/dp/B005BR8Z5Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312302018&sr=8-1

I would have suggested picking up some crts, but then its finding a place to store them, i didn`t get a look at the storage room in the exchange but am told its a little small for storing crt tvs, so thats pretty much out the window. But i would suggest picking up at least 1 crt and using it for finals /top 8 then at least finals will be lag free, neoempire do this at svb and i think its a smart move and one that we should copy.

We now have a venue that is cheap to rent and large enough to run tournaments without having to worry about being cramped, the only issue i had with the venue was the amount of time in the venue which caused a lot of problems at the last tournament where we had to run the finals in a different location, there is also a slight issue of random people walking in off the street who could have just taken one of the many bags or sticks that were just lying around the place, so the security is something that definitley needs to be looked at before something does go missing.

But thats pretty much that.

The next thing that i would like to talk about is how to make our scene bigger and better, running monthly tournaments is fine, but where does it go from there? I think we need to start looking towards having our own national tournament. We have been running infernos now for about 2 years and they are very good tournaments, but we need something thats a little bit bigger and something that will attract overseas players as well as increase the profile of the irish fighting game scene. I think a national tournament is the way forward.

I was very disappointed that nobody from the inferno tournaments got in contact with Q-con this year, especially after they helped us last year, they ran a very good sf4 tournament for us and it was very professional. The venue was great and the organisation was excellent, Q-con is by far the best gaming event in ireland that i have personally seen and its one that we should get involved in, so this is what i think we should do.

I say we get in touch with the Q-con organisers about running a national tournament, hopefully they will agree to work with us, they did last time so i am hoping they will again, am sure capcom and a few other companies will be interested too and if all goes well we plan we can start promoting the event as soon as we get dates for Q-con.

Building up to the event we could run a series of ranking tournaments in the exchange that will rank the top 50/100 players in ireland, we will then select the best 10 who will then face off against the uk in a special UK vs Ireland 10 vs 10 exhibition. The national tournament will give the irish scene the exposure it needs to get bigger and better, it will also create competition among the players to make it on to the national side. And because its a national tournament we might be able to get TV and radio involved too, I once got interviewed in london by RTE who came to london with the irish tekken 4 champion, so its definitely a possibility to get media involved with what were doing.

This event will create exposure for our scene and our players and perhaps attract some sponsors to look more at the irish players, i already know of one professional gaming team that is interested in signing stev0, so its possible that more teams will be interested in signing other irish players once we get the spotlight on them.

The national tournament and ranking battles would also create content for the podcast, we would always have something to talk about and something to build on, it would move our scene forward and generate interest for new players to get involved in our community.

A national tournament would create awerness for our community not just nationally but internationally, it would create stronger competition between our players and the chance to represent ireland at a national level, it would be a good motivator for our players train up and get better and it would also give our players the exposure they need to be noticed by gaming teams and give them a better chance of being sponsord.

We could also think about geting players like Daigo and Justin to appear so they could play in a speical tournament where we could have the japanese/american/uk/french and irish champions all face off against each other in a mini world tournament that would increase the profile of the tournament.

I feel that our community is strong enough to compete with the rest of europe and i think its time we proved it. Running an event like this wouldn`t be easy and it would take all of us to work together to make it happen, so what do people think?

Are we ready for a national tournament?

ladnopoka

great post chunkis, that monitor is good but expensive

Misty Chaos

Apart from a few kinks, I personally think that we are all but ready to hold a major, going by the huge success the EVO qualifier was in June. We have the equipment ( well apart from the monitors but we can always start a donation drive, 5 euros or so from everyone at the next few infernos will add up pretty quickly. ) and talent to to help produce a good show.

What we need next to begin streaming. Yes, I know the internet at the exchange is crap but I really think it is the next level, even if we have to make do with a very low quality stream ( better quality footage can be uploaded the next day ) On the topic the exchange, a national would have to be held at a different venue, like a hotel suite or something with good internet so that the event can be streamed. Not to mention it should happen over at least 2 days too.

We would also need to decide on who would commentate well in advance of the national so that we don't have randoms commentating important matches.

We would also need to consider finding a way to add exclusives to such an event, like preview builds of upcoming games and as mentioned, bring over Daigo, Tokido and the likes.

Such an event will require at least 6 months planning beforehand and would be unfair to have to depend on the Dublin lads to put it all together, everyone who can contribute in any way, should.

Perhaps the current events being run ( Inferno, Tempest, Glacial League ) could become a part of a ' tournament season ' where people who do well over a space of 4 - 5 months get points that will increase their seeding for the national event.

And seeing that all of the Irish events being run seem to based on the element, I really we should call the national ' The 5th Element ' or something like that but that's just me.

Just my two cents, I'm full of ideas on how such an event would go down.

Speed Boat

Misty Chaos wrote: »

And seeing that all of the Irish events being run seem to based on the element, I really we should call the national ' The 5th Element ' or something like that but that's just me.

HEART.

Konata

Misty Chaos wrote: »

We would also need to decide on who would commentate well in advance of the national so that we don't have randoms commentating important matches.

Just my little contribution but this, this, this! Getting commentators is a pain in the arse, usually just me or DooM calling out "SOMEONE COMMENTATE" before a match. No issue with that for Infernos or DoC or regular tourneys as most people in the scene have at least decent knowledge of the game being played.

However, for a national or more important tournament, commentators would definitely need to be chosen beforehand and from within the scene so that, as Misty pointed, randomers won't end up commentating. This actually happened at Evo where 2 people I'd never even seen before picked up the mics and talked absolute bullshít for the majority of the match - and if I can tell they're talking bullshít then I hate to imagine how it sounded to an experienced player.

So yea, commentary system is fine for regular tourneys but for national/evo qualifier/special tourneys, commentators should be in place beforehand

UberPrinny_Baal

That sounds cool Chunkis, and not to sound cynical but who's going to do all the work?

An idea isn't any use without someone championing it, and this idea sounds like an incredible amount of work.

Are you going to champion this?

ayjayirl

I thought the monitors are lagless, or close to it as is reasonable?

UberPrinny_Baal

ayjayirl wrote: »

I thought the monitors are lagless, or close to it as is reasonable?

If anyone has a Rockband wireless guitar (I don't), you can just pop in a Rockband 3 disc (I have that) and it will tell you what the lag on the TV is automatically down to the millisecond.

Onion might be able to help on this.

Doctor DooM

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

If anyone has a Rockband wireless guitar (I don't), you can just pop in a Rockband 3 disc (I have that) and it will tell you what the lag on the TV is automatically down to the millisecond.

Onion might be able to help on this.

I believe this was done prior to one being purchased in a couple of reviews, and it was way under the acceptable threshold.

I'll wait for Chopper/ Orim to chime in when they return as they know the story.

Nutrient

Konata wrote: »

Just my little contribution but this, this, this! Getting commentators is a pain in the arse, usually just me or DooM calling out "SOMEONE COMMENTATE" before a match. No issue with that for Infernos or DoC or regular tourneys as most people in the scene have at least decent knowledge of the game being played.

However, for a national or more important tournament, commentators would definitely need to be chosen beforehand and from within the scene so that, as Misty pointed, randomers won't end up commentating. This actually happened at Evo where 2 people I'd never even seen before picked up the mics and talked absolute bullshít for the majority of the match - and if I can tell they're talking bullshít then I hate to imagine how it sounded to an experienced player.

So yea, commentary system is fine for regular tourneys but for national/evo qualifier/special tourneys, commentators should be in place beforehand

This is very true

Although knowledge for the games on screen alone is not good enough

Guys would have to be great social speakers
And I think the craic we have doing regular commentating should not and can not be done as it is a reflection of who we all are as a community

Best thing to do is get game footage, play it on a monitor, and have auditions and take note of their terminology, tone of voice and synergy with the match

chunkis

I organised battle of destiny back in 2008, for those of you that don`t know what bod is, it was europes biggest and best fighting game tournament, and yeah it took a lot of time and a lot of hard work but we can definitely make something like that happen here in ireland, especially with everybody helping out.

If our community is to go forward we need to push it forward.

Check out these videos of battle of destiny and you will see the standard of tournament am talking about, this is what i want to happen in ireland.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqboXNfGS2w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZn4d04zBS8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJSePE_h_oE&feature=related

the_syco

Misty Chaos wrote: »

What we need next to begin streaming.

What speed is the upload bandwidth, and do others play other games at the same time? By this I mean; do you have sole use of the uploading?

Also, do you have access to a good machine? I ask as if you do, maybe look into using VLC to encode a x264 feed? Google gave me this page, but I'm sure other people could give input on what program to use, and what codec.

IMO, codec = better video with the same bandwidth.

Doctor DooM

Streaming is not going to happen until we get a venue with better internet.

And also a couple of people willing to help out and learn, myself and Sinead aren't enough.

Don't take it the wrong way but if things got a bit more serious I shall be picking the people I will be working with commentary wise. I think I have earned that much. I have a good idea of about 6 or 7 people I like on the mikes. A mix of game knowledge, humour and an ability to speak clearly and with consiseness are all needed.


I also think I'd want to upgrade some of the gear, and that costs time and money.

UberPrinny_Baal

chunkis wrote: »

I organised battle of destiny back in 2008.......

If our community is to go forward we need to push it forward.

I wasn't doubting your cv chunkis or anything you've done in the past, it's just that you're suggesting a pretty big project without nominating yourself, or anyone else as a project leader.

Jun_DP101

I like the idea of a 10 v 10 against uk

Konata

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

ayjayirl wrote: »

I thought the monitors are lagless, or close to it as is reasonable?

If anyone has a Rockband wireless guitar (I don't), you can just pop in a Rockband 3 disc (I have that) and it will tell you what the lag on the TV is automatically down to the millisecond.

Onion might be able to help on this.

Paul doesn't have one of the wireless guitars, but I do. It's one of the newer rb3 ones and with the rb3 disk, can do the lag test effectively. Someone mentioned this has been done previously on the monitors but if it hasn't, or would like to be tried again, I am quite willing to lend my guitar and game to get it checked out

Placebo

To be frank, i dont think theres enough players in Ireland.
You will be looking at foreign contenders just to fill up the space, which is really scary. Maybe if EVO registrations were reaching 200.
Daigo/Tokiodo etc would only show for massive prize pots, renting out hotels would cost a lot too.
Its great thats irelands gotten this far, but because we were so behind all these years, cant expect to catch up with rest of the nations that have been playing FG games for years ! Just a thought, i think its too early to mix in any foreign element. When the exchange starts to become too small for inferno [and i mean its bursting] then perhaps its time for change

While the ambition is certainly admired and picture painted seems like the end goal, lets be a little realistic here. I guess first goal as Misty mentioned would be some sort of national event. However funding is critical and so is the management

ayjayirl

Placebo wrote: »

To be frank ,....However funding is critical and so is the management

Hi Frank,

Funny, I was talking to Brian last week about doing something like this and what would be involved. After some discussion it really came down to money. There were a couple of idea's about what to do/have and who to get to come etc. We thought it would be a good idea, as others have also put forward, to have a national event and try to get people from abroad to come but therein lies the problem. Chicken and egg really. In order to go from the last big event (Evo Qual) to this annual event, the jump is substantial enough to be a problem when it comes to money. Whilst there are advocates for it being possible on a shoe-string r zero budget, imo, that would not result in the desired effect of an internationally recognised (as in people will come and travel for it) tournament/event.

Tbh I think our efforts should be focused on raising Ireland profile within the international scene. This has already started thanks to the work of those who have come before us and those who are still promoting it. But we could try to create Team challenge events were 5(Ire) v 5(UK) v 5(France) or something to that effect. This would have the bonus of mitigating costs and is something that over the year could build a good rivalry/HYPE-BUILDER between the teams etc. This could be done a couple of times (once here and maybe an offer to travel to the UK for such an event - I dunno, just spit balling) and lead up to next years EVO qualifier (or similar). This could lead to multiple teams with top seeds team & lower seed teams available as well to include everyone and not just the very talented

I think careful thought on the specific strategy is required and to make common sense deicisions - its easy to say, lets create a mega hype league, tournament thing and get Daigo etc to come....... Its just not reality imo. This could should be tied into sf.ie where info + vid etc are hosted and should have a definite "This is what we are doing and this is how we are doing it"

I'll volunteer for helping with organisation and playing in the bottom tier team! ...but either way, throwing out ideas on this is something everyone should think about and contribute to if they can. Its for us anyway. With respect Chunkis, you have not been around the scene all that much since last year and popping up and saying it needs to be bigger isn't really helpful. I know your motives are probably good, but you cannot affect change without commitment and involvement - something that is in abundance within the community as a whole except for people who move away to Manchester for no good reason.

Aj

chunkis

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

I wasn't doubting your cv chunkis or anything you've done in the past, it's just that you're suggesting a pretty big project without nominating yourself, or anyone else as a project leader.

Our community doesn`t really have a leader, we tried that once with the committee and nobody could agree on anything, we couldn`t even agree on who we wanted on the committee lol, i think the best way forward is to get our ideas out in the open and try to make them work as best we can, let the community decide on what they would like to see happen and if people think this is a good idea then lets work together to make it happen.

Vyze

chunkis wrote: »

Q-con is by far the best gaming event in ireland that i have personally seen and its one that we should get involved in, so this is what i think we should do.

Hollerrrrrrr!!!

The thing with Q-Con (and what apparently puts people off Clash X Counter?) is that if something's being hosted in the Students' Union, we're not allowed to give away cash prizes as far as I'm aware. Me and Paul were discussing this last night actually w/r/t CXC - hosting in a venue that allows for cash prizes means that attendees will need to pay a fair amount more than they would for something like the previous CXCs to cover the cost of room rental and insurance.
If the Dragonslayers committee would be willing to lend their equipment (TVs, consoles, etc.) to an event in an external venue that would be utterly awesome. I know they do rented corporate events (games nights for companies/promotions) but I'm not sure what the costs are for that. I suggest whoever is taking the reigns for a national tournament to contact the committee directly regarding anything like that.

Streaming would be cool, and not all that hard if you're willing to have low quality video. If you're happy to stick with 640x480 output, you can do it entirely with free tools like ManyCam, which will allow picture-in-picture from multiple cameras and text overlay for player names, etc. I was considering experimenting it in a very low level if we run another CXC. Nothing that I would intend for people to watch, since it would likely be an off-screen camera pointed at the screen and another cheap camera pointing at the venue and just messing around with the controls to see how hard it would be.

As Placebo said, though, there wouldn't be enough players for a massive tournament on the appropriate scale to bring large players from Japan or America over (large in the "famously good" sense, not in the "Marn" sense). Running a tournament and advertising it to foreign players to come on over and compete would be great, but don't be shocked if not a lot of the big names show up.

The tournament would need to start with realistic expectations and build from there every year, very few events rake in hundreds of people on their first go. To bring it back to Q-Con, I believe that there were more dedicated staff this year than there were total attendees at very first one! Basically, just run an event as best you can and then, the next year, try to make it even better.

K.O.Kiki

Let's return to XGC and run a tourney on PS3s. Inferno monitors are ass, i'm sorry to say. Sell them for something proven?

chunkis

vyze have you got an email adress for the organisers of Q-con, it can`t hurt to shoot them an email and see what they can do for us.

Doctor DooM

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Let's return to XGC and run a tourney on PS3s. Inferno monitors are ass, i'm sorry to say. Sell them for something proven?

There's so much wrong there I don't know where to start kiki. Im pretty sure Orim tested the monitors (or at very least read online tests) and they're fine.

No offence Chunkis, I like you and all, but someone has to call a spade a spade here. Last time you tried to run something here you nearly cost us a relationship with a business and occasional sponser we work with and you cost several members of the community a serious amount of money. You have alot of trust to earn back there.

Vyze, I could do a mickey mouse stream tonight if I feel like it. Have done a few times. But if this is something we want international attention for, mickey mouse is not good enough.

Q-Con didn't seem too pushed about SF this year, that's why there wasn't much love from the republic.


If we want to do this, we need to do it like the Evo Quals, which is with a clear leader and plenty of people willing to help them. There are plenty of people who could assume this role, IMO.

ayjayirl

chunkis wrote: »

Our community doesn`t really have a leader, we tried that once with the committee and nobody could agree on anything, we couldn`t even agree on who we wanted on the committee

I believe there is a committee formed and they have been instrumental in promoting our scene and organising events etc with a little help from their friends - saying otherwise is just untrue, misleading and unnecessary.

chunkis

ayjayirl wrote: »

I believe there is a committee formed and they have been instrumental in promoting our scene and organising events etc with a little help from their friends - saying otherwise is just untrue, misleading and unnecessary.

first i heard of it, so who is on it.

Speed Boat

Our community is naturally reaching the heights that chunkis is talking about.

It requires a gentle massage rather than a kick in the arse.

In the last year we've sent people to evo, attended several international tourneys(and achieved top 32/16/8) moved to a new(better) venue, have seen some of the lesser played games finally start to take off and started to get proper HD match vids out there(kudos Doom et al).

I could go on and list loads more ways in which we've gotten bigger and better.

If/when the time comes for a big national tourney we'll know and we'll do it well i'm sure.

ayjayirl

chunkis wrote: »

first i heard of it

ayjayirl wrote: »

With respect Chunkis, you have not been around the scene all that much since last year

:pac:

Doctor DooM

chunkis wrote: »

first i heard of it, so who is on it.

Me (the guy who does all the videos and runs the forums, has appeared on radio shows, etc) Dreddy (who runs alot of tournaments and has developed links with gamer fm, looks after the cash) Chopper (Who is runnning inferno) Azza (who is the dictator) and Mr Kyle (who has been absent, but then was voted without really being asked).

chunkis

Doctor DooM wrote: »

There's so much wrong there I don't know where to start kiki. Im pretty sure Orim tested the monitors (or at very least read online tests) and they're fine.

No offence Chunkis, I like you and all, but someone has to call a spade a spade here. Last time you tried to run something here you nearly cost us a relationship with a business and occasional sponser we work with and you cost several members of the community a serious amount of money. You have alot of trust to earn back there.

Vyze, I could do a mickey mouse stream tonight if I feel like it. Have done a few times. But if this is something we want international attention for, mickey mouse is not good enough.

Q-Con didn't seem too pushed about SF this year, that's why there wasn't much love from the republic.


If we want to do this, we need to do it like the Evo Quals, which is with a clear leader and plenty of people willing to help them. There are plenty of people who could assume this role, IMO.

Doom the monitors at doc are crap they need to be changed. Also Why would you have to bring up the one time i made a mistake? Mistakes happen, what about all the times i came through for the community and ran good events? What about those times?

ayjayirl

Speed Boat wrote: »

Our community is naturally reaching the heights that chunkis is talking about.

It requires a gentle massage rather than a kick in the arse.

In the last year we've sent people to evo, attended several international tourneys(and achieved top 32/16/8) moved to a new(better) venue, have seen some of the lesser played games finally start to take off and started to get proper HD match vids out there(kudos Doom et al).

I could go on and list loads more ways in which we've gotten bigger and better.

If/when the time comes for a big national tourney we'll know and we'll do it well i'm sure.

Agreed. It comes back to what and how rather than statement and reaction.

We could start with something simple..... a Definitive 3/6 months plan of upcoming tourneys around the country - in a nice easy to use UI on sf.ie. We have inferno, galcial, tempest...... and thats before Sai starts the scene in Galway . We could have them tied into dates, venues and plan promotion accordingly - by promotion I mean at least being able to give dates for things to people when asked (maybe even a link).

ayjayirl

chunkis wrote: »

Doom the monitors at doc are crap they need to be changed. Also Why would you have to bring up the one time i made a mistake? Mistakes happen, what about all the times i came through for the community and ran good events? What about those times?

Running an event is one thing, managing a communities direction is another. The first requires some organisational skills, the second requires collective support & a shared vision. Mistake or not I don't think you have enough credibility for such a responsibility. I am not having a go chunkis, but organisation of an event is not the same thing I am talking about which, as Speedboat eluded to, is a continued concerted effort and evolution of our scene rather than a dramatic, expensive over-reach - imo, naturally .