The Strike is over. What happens now?

wrangler · 09-11-2019 11:37am

gerryirl wrote: »

lol... you know your right and I have alreaady gone a different route. Spent the last 3 years with a group of interested people to get a locally led Agri scheme here. We got it over the line last year. Wont make anyone a millionaire but youd not make it off cattle plus its helps the area, the land and puts a few pound in famrers pockets. Win Win..

Were leader involved, we got leaders help for a couple things around, grants are very generous, all they want is people with energy and initiative

gerryirl · 09-11-2019 6:09pm

wrangler wrote: »

Were leader involved, we got leaders help for a couple things around, grants are very generous, all they want is people with energy and initiative

Dept of Ag.. EIP.. Its a wonderful opportuinty and a great thing to be invloved in.

Water John · 10-11-2019 4:47pm

The Emerald PO have teamed up with an exporter. Looking for AA and AAX heifers
under 15 months, for the Italian market.

Base price · 10-11-2019 5:22pm

Water John wrote: »

The Emerald PO have teamed up with an exporter. Looking for AA and AAX heifers
under 15 months, for the Italian market.

I saw that earlier. I wonder how it will go considering many farmers still have nightmares over getting payment in the past when live shipping to the Italian market re: Garavelli/TLT receivership.
Who is behind it, when do the farmers get paid? Would farmers not be better off selling through their local mart and they can be assured of payment?

Reggie. · 10-11-2019 5:52pm

Base price wrote: »

I saw that earlier. I wonder how it will go considering many farmers still have nightmares over getting payment in the past when live shipping to the Italian market re: Garavelli/TLT receivership.
Who is behind it, when do the farmers get paid? Would farmers not be better off selling through their local mart and they can be assured of payment?

I think the emerald company have ties to the garavelli crowd

Base price · 10-11-2019 5:54pm

Reggie. wrote: »

I think the emerald company have ties to the garavelli crowd

OH :eek:

MIKEKC · 10-11-2019 6:17pm

Base price wrote: »

OH :eek:

Hope something will come of it. No hope of getting over 30 month away again this week .Cahir not taking any overage .Agent says it could be a month before there is any movement. I hope the protesters are taking note of the damage they have caused to people.

Base price · 10-11-2019 7:10pm

MIKEKC wrote: »

Hope something will come of it. No hope of getting over 30 month away again this week .Cahir not taking any overage .Agent says it could be a month before there is any movement. I hope the protesters are taking note of the damage they have caused to people.

I agree about the backlog problems caused by the cluster fook of a protest but least you get paid by the factories and marts.

MIKEKC · 10-11-2019 8:10pm

Base price wrote: »

I agree about the backlog problems caused by the cluster fook of a protest but least you get paid by the factories and marts.

Of course security of payment is a major consideration.

Albert Johnson · 10-11-2019 8:13pm

Reggie. wrote: »

I think the emerald company have ties to the garavelli crowd

+1 on that assumption. Emerald green have gone very quiet of late, they were more active last back end but I haven't seen them at all this year. Having said that I haven't seen much exporter activity around the ring in recent weeks, what export markets are actively sourcing continental stock atm?

Base price · 10-11-2019 8:39pm

Albert Johnson wrote: »

+1 on that assumption. Emerald green have gone very quiet of late, they were more active last back end but I haven't seen them at all this year. Having said that I haven't seen much exporter activity around the ring in recent weeks, what export markets are actively sourcing continental stock atm?

To avoid confusion and I didn't mean to infer that one organisation was the same as the other. There is a difference between Emerald Isle Beef Producers and Emerald Green (livestock export company) that was put into liquidation a few years ago.

Emerald Isle Beef Producers group was set up recently by Eamonn Corley and other members of the Beef Plan organisation - the fellas who instigated the recent beef factory blockades.

Anyway notwithstanding the above, who pays for the cattle when they are collected from your yard. Many a farmer has been caught on the wrong side of the fence and has to represent cheques in the hope of payment and in some cases in order to establish a paper trail for future litigation.
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/cattle-company-wound-up-in-high-court-184370

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/second-beef-producer-group-in-the-pipeline/

Albert Johnson · 10-11-2019 9:01pm

Base price wrote: »

To avoid confusion and I didn't mean to infer that one organisation was the same as the other. There is a difference between Emerald Isle Beef Producers and Emerald Green (livestock export company) that was put into liquidation a few years ago.

Emerald Isle Beef Producers group was set up recently by Eamonn Corley and other members of the Beef Plan organisation - the fellas who instigated the recent beef factory blockades.

Anyway notwithstanding the above, who pays for the cattle when they are collected from your yard. Many a farmer has been caught on the wrong side of the fence and has to represent cheques in the hope of payment and in some cases in order to establish a paper trail for future litigation.
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/cattle-company-wound-up-in-high-court-184370

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/second-beef-producer-group-in-the-pipeline/

Sorry my mistake, I had heard of Emerald Isle Beef Producer's but assumed when the export market was mentioned it was in reference to Emerald green. The issue of payment is still a valid concern and I don't know how it can be rectified. There's several different links in the chain as regards payment and once the stock are gone there's very little recourse available afterwards. As for the suggestion of using marts to guarantee payment there usually already carrying credit from stock bought within the mart and I don't know if taking on more risk is well advised. The mart isn't guaranteed there money either so it's only transferring the risk from one party to another as opposed to removing it.

Base price · 10-11-2019 9:31pm

Albert Johnson wrote: »

Sorry my mistake, I had heard of Emerald Isle Beef Producer's but assumed when the export market was mentioned it was in reference to Emerald green. The issue of payment is still a valid concern and I don't know how it can be rectified. There's several different links in the chain as regards payment and once the stock are gone there's very little recourse available afterwards. As for the suggestion of using marts to guarantee payment there usually already carrying credit from stock bought within the mart and I don't know if taking on more risk is well advised. The mart isn't guaranteed there money either so it's only transferring the risk from one party to another as opposed to removing it.

I remember reading a article within the last year or two where livestock marts have to have an amount of cash available in a contingency account (simular to solicitors and auctioneers) in order to pay vendors. I thought that it was covered in the recent Livestock Marts regulations, however I stand corrected.

Albert Johnson · 10-11-2019 9:44pm

Base price wrote: »

I remember reading a article within the last year or two where livestock marts have to have an amount of cash available in a contingency account (simular to solicitors and auctioneers) in order to pay vendors. I thought that it was covered in the recent Livestock Marts regulations, however I stand corrected.

I've heard of that but I don't know if it's strictly enforced. As with everything there's regulation but the enforcement and day to day operation may differ. Without going into specifics and examples there seems to be a grey area around a lot of those regulations and they aren't always strictly implemented. I knew of one mart that was operating without a property services license until recently and may still be so. The mart business isn't always straight forward and seems to attract more than it's fair share of "chancers".

Water John · 10-11-2019 10:21pm

Agree that payment is a worry, it always is. It would add a cost but could POs have a bond types cover?
The sale of the Italian destined heifers is through the Emerald Isle Producer Group, I think, at least initial contact is through them.

Base price · 10-11-2019 10:23pm

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I've heard of that but I don't know if it's strictly enforced. As with everything there's regulation but the enforcement and day to day operation may differ. Without going into specifics and examples there seems to be a grey area around a lot of those regulations and they aren't always strictly implemented. I knew of one mart that was operating without a property services license until recently and may still be so. The mart business isn't always straight forward and seems to attract more than it's fair share of "chancers".

Mmm...
TBH I thought from what I read that it was clear and cut legislation but from your above comment it maybe not as clear as I thought. Feck it :mad:

Albert Johnson · 10-11-2019 11:23pm

Base price wrote: »

Mmm...
TBH I thought from what I read that it was clear and cut legislation but from your above comment it maybe not as clear as I thought. Feck it :mad:

Maybe it is, I'm not that well up on the matter but from my experience in the mart business there's always some special circumstances at play. Bond cover may also be an option again I'm far from an expert on the matter. Live exports are a volatile business and are prone to failure due to global factor's that are often outside of our control. I think it would open a lot of people's eyes if they saw how much debt some marts carry from domestic nevermind international customers and the trouble associated with collecting this payment.

duffysfarm · 15-11-2019 8:35am

Did I hear someone say the word strike?

kk.man · 15-11-2019 8:40am

Albert Johnson wrote: »

Maybe it is, I'm not that well up on the matter but from my experience in the mart business there's always some special circumstances at play. Bond cover may also be an option again I'm far from an expert on the matter. Live exports are a volatile business and are prone to failure due to global factor's that are often outside of our control. I think it would open a lot of people's eyes if they saw how much debt some marts carry from domestic nevermind international customers and the trouble associated with collecting this payment.

I know of at least two big finishers who would have a credit limit of 300k in the Midlands. They effectively use the mart as a bank. Some big dealers got a full months credit.

K.G. · 15-11-2019 11:26am

Could the strike result in price rises in Ireland due to world prices rising being delayed.they aint going to rise them at the moment while they are ploughing through the backlog .the irony of it

Bass Reeves · 15-11-2019 2:01pm

K.G. wrote: »

Could the strike result in price rises in Ireland due to world prices rising being delayed.they aint going to rise them at the moment while they are ploughing through the backlog .the irony of it

I think the price rise will come harder and faster than lads think. Processor's cannot use restricted feedlot beef for Chinese market. Kill jumped something savage last week. Normally processor's slow down throughput from Dec 1st until Christmas week.due to white meat. This may not happen this year.

However the price rise will be conditional on type of cattle. U 30 months cattle from unrestricted herds may see a sharp rise in price. Bulls U 24 months may well be in serious demand this year. Other cattle may not see same price jump.

Processor's feedlots and restricted feedlots could be redundant this year

Panch18 · 15-11-2019 2:10pm

K.G. wrote: »

Could the strike result in price rises in Ireland due to world prices rising being delayed.they aint going to rise them at the moment while they are ploughing through the backlog .the irony of it

I said that ages ago, the backlog of cattle means that the factories won’t have to raise the price of beef in line with beef price increases in other markets, and these are clearly rising.

Irony is an understatement in my opinion, it would be pure comical if it wasn’t so bloody serious

Panch18 · 15-11-2019 2:12pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think the price rise will come harder and faster than lads think. Processor's cannot use restricted feedlot beef for Chinese market. Kill jumped something savage last week. Normally processor's slow down throughput from Dec 1st until Christmas week.due to white meat. This may not happen this year.

However the price rise will be conditional on type of cattle. U 30 months cattle from unrestricted herds may see a sharp rise in price. Bulls U 24 months may well be in serious demand this year. Other cattle may not see same price jump.

Processor's feedlots and restricted feedlots could be redundant this year

There was NO dramatic rise in the kill last week

It is consistent with the kill for the last couple of months, bar the week before last where the kill dropped 4 or 5k head, and this was probably due to the bank holiday

K.G. · 15-11-2019 3:08pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think the price rise will come harder and faster than lads think. Processor's cannot use restricted feedlot beef for Chinese market. Kill jumped something savage last week. Normally processor's slow down throughput from Dec 1st until Christmas week.due to white meat. This may not happen this year.

However the price rise will be conditional on type of cattle. U 30 months cattle from unrestricted herds may see a sharp rise in price. Bulls U 24 months may well be in serious demand this year. Other cattle may not see same price jump.

Processor's feedlots and restricted feedlots could be redundant this year

Do ye remember lads were saying that feedlots weren't buying ,that was emptying and resetting the clock as tb free feedlots

wrangler · 15-11-2019 3:22pm

K.G. wrote: »

Do ye remember lads were saying that feedlots weren't buying ,that was emptying and resetting the clock as tb free feedlots

They'll be a loss to restricted herds although i hear they were well able to discount the price........ if they paid at all

mf240 · 15-11-2019 3:27pm

K.G. wrote: »

Do ye remember lads were saying that feedlots weren't buying ,that was emptying and resetting the clock as tb free feedlots

Be very hard for big feedlots to remain clear though, sheer numbers mean the chance of having a doubtfull are high.

Robson99 · 15-11-2019 3:32pm

Panch18 wrote: »

I said that ages ago, the backlog of cattle means that the factories won’t have to raise the price of beef in line with beef price increases in other markets, and these are clearly rising.

Irony is an understatement in my opinion, it would be pure comical if it wasn’t so bloody serious

Would you prefer if the Base was €3.20 / kg for the last 2 months and the rising it 5 cent a fortnight now ???

MIKEKC · 15-11-2019 4:14pm

Robson99 wrote: »

Would you prefer if the Base was €3.20 / kg for the last 2 months and the rising it 5 cent a fortnight now ???

Show us proof that the base price would have been e3.20

Bass Reeves · 15-11-2019 4:40pm

MIKEKC wrote: »

Show us proof that the base price would have been e3.20

Show us the proof it wouldn't

Base price · 15-11-2019 5:14pm

Panch18 wrote: »

There was NO dramatic rise in the kill last week

It is consistent with the kill for the last couple of months, bar the week before last where the kill dropped 4 or 5k head, and this was probably due to the bank holiday

The other point to note is that the cull/empty (P) dairy cow numbers haven't really come on stream from the parlours yet. Farmers don't have a fodder shortage like last year and are continuing to milk them. Factory prices are poor for same and as a dairy farmer said to me they are putting euro's into the milk tank.

Anto_Meath · 15-11-2019 5:33pm

Plus the factories don't want them, €2/ kg if you could get them to take them isn't going to encourage anyone to send them in.

Base price · 15-11-2019 5:39pm

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Plus the factories don't want them, €2/ kg if you could get them to take them isn't going to encourage anyone to send them in.

The factories want them alright but they know they don't have to pay for them. All they have to do is wait and they know that they will come.

MIKEKC · 15-11-2019 6:07pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Show us the proof it wouldn't

Robson99 asked if we would prefer e3.20 so he must have some reason to make that statement. At no stage did I say that I had any information what the price would be

Jjjack77 · 15-11-2019 6:21pm

People saying beef would be 3.20 are just trying to justify the strike, most people realize dat the strike done a lot more damage than good

duffysfarm · 15-11-2019 6:25pm

I did say a couple of weeks back that larry wasnt buying. I know a couple of farmers that sold him heifers in the last week so he is back buying again

mf240 wrote: »

Be very hard for big feedlots to remain clear though, sheer numbers mean the chance of having a doubtfull are high.

duffysfarm · 15-11-2019 6:26pm

Word on the street is that pickets will be back in place by Christmas. They must have been stocking up on the thermal undies in lidl

Jjjack77 wrote: »

People saying beef would be 3.20 are just trying to justify the strike, most people realize dat the strike done a lot more damage than good

MIKEKC · 15-11-2019 6:32pm

Jjjack77 wrote: »

People saying beef would be 3.20 are just trying to justify the strike, most people realize dat the strike done a lot more damage than good

Agree completely nobody yet showed proof it would be e3.20 Serious damage done to trade. Over 30 months impossible to get away. Feeding at e3.45 very expensive.

MIKEKC · 15-11-2019 6:34pm

duffysfarm wrote: »

Word on the street is that pickets will be back in place by Christmas. They must have been stocking up on the thermal undies in lidl

The word better stay on the street

Danzy · 15-11-2019 6:36pm

Panch18 wrote: »

I said that ages ago, the backlog of cattle means that the factories won’t have to raise the price of beef in line with beef price increases in other markets, and these are clearly rising.

Irony is an understatement in my opinion, it would be pure comical if it wasn’t so bloody serious

There are factories that kill in a day what all of Ireland kill in a week.

A backlog of 100k will not have a significant or more than a week impact outside of Ireland, across Europe.

yosemitesam1 · 15-11-2019 7:03pm

Danzy wrote: »

There are factories that kill in a day what all of Ireland kill in a week.

A backlog of 100k will not have an impact outside of Ireland.

Grand if you have a steady market. It's a fairly difficult job to shift that many cattle in a short time period without hitting price hard

Cavanjack · 15-11-2019 7:37pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think the price rise will come harder and faster than lads think. Processor's cannot use restricted feedlot beef for Chinese market. Kill jumped something savage last week. Normally processor's slow down throughput from Dec 1st until Christmas week.due to white meat. This may not happen this year.

However the price rise will be conditional on type of cattle. U 30 months cattle from unrestricted herds may see a sharp rise in price. Bulls U 24 months may well be in serious demand this year. Other cattle may not see same price jump.

Processor's feedlots and restricted feedlots could be redundant this year

I hope you are right regarding the bulls and the sooner the better. Won’t be holding my breath though.

Robson99 · 15-11-2019 9:56pm

MIKEKC wrote: »

Show us proof that the base price would have been e3.20

I have no proof but a blind man could see it was heading that way...same lads saying it would never drop below 3.75....well it did. But some of ye would happily keep taking kicks in the hole from Larry rather than standing up for yeer selves....though I get the feeling one or two on here were getting more than the ordinary finisher and it's hurting them now that Larry doesn't give a toss about them

Panch18 · 15-11-2019 11:13pm

Danzy wrote: »

There are factories that kill in a day what all of Ireland kill in a week.

A backlog of 100k will not have a significant or more than a week impact outside of Ireland, across Europe.

You’re totally missing the point!!

Panch18 · 15-11-2019 11:21pm

Jjjack77 wrote: »

People saying beef would be 3.20 are just trying to justify the strike, most people realize dat the strike done a lot more damage than good

This is it in a nutshell

Jb1989 · 15-11-2019 11:25pm

Panch18 wrote: »

This is it in a nutshell

Not being awkward but The nutshell has 2 halves, no one can answer what may have actually happened down the line, the strikes were tried and changes made, be them, good, bad or indifferent.

Bass Reeves · 15-11-2019 11:36pm

Panch18 wrote: »

There was NO dramatic rise in the kill last week

It is consistent with the kill for the last couple of months, bar the week before last where the kill dropped 4 or 5k head, and this was probably due to the bank holiday

Sorry I mis read it in the Journal yesterday.

K.G. wrote: »

Do ye remember lads were saying that feedlots weren't buying ,that was emptying and resetting the clock as tb free feedlots

I posted about that yesterday in the 2020 dairy calf thread.

mf240 wrote: »

Be very hard for big feedlots to remain clear though, sheer numbers mean the chance of having a doubtfull are high.

Feedlots will have to specialize, no longer can they mix, cull cows with younger cattle. It will not just effect feedlot cattle it will effect restricted herds. In the finishing game it easy to get restricted. There are lads that go from killing heifers in the Autumn, to having AA/He bullocks after them, then FR bulls in May, then cull cows and Fr bullocks after then moving on to 18-20 months bulls in autumn. If they get restricted they will be treated the same as a restricted feedlot IMO. Most finishers have cows in the system at some stage.

Base price wrote: »

The other point to note is that the cull/empty (P) dairy cow numbers haven't really come on stream from the parlours yet. Farmers don't have a fodder shortage like last year and are continuing to milk them. Factory prices are poor for same and as a dairy farmer said to me they are putting euro's into the milk tank.

Dairy cows may not come on stream as strong as last year. The perceived fodder shortage last autumn caused lads to cull very heavy, these same farmers may not cull as heavy this year. As well 2/kg or less will certainly effect there sentiment.

Jjjack77 wrote: »

People saying beef would be 3.20 are just trying to justify the strike, most people realize dat the strike done a lot more damage than good

There are lads here blaming everything to do with present price on BP. It not as if we were not below the present price(for some anyway) when it started and that was late July. I remember some lads posting here that are now saying it should be higher stating that you never see a price rise in the Autumn in Ireland.

The other bee in there bonnet is the timing. the timing was perfect. the issue was because of pressure BP went into talks in early August and removed the pickets. There was a delay starting talks and it took three weeks to clse down processors again. Next time there will be no removal of pickets before talk start. Farmers were unlucky with the Autumn as well. Timing was perfect but instead of it being done and dusted after 3-4 weeks it was an 8-9 week affair. But then again if the lads getting the extra 20c/kg supported it it would have been over by mid August

Panch18 · 15-11-2019 11:55pm

I think if there are more pickets that the majority of farmers won’t be as obedient and the pickets will be broken en mass

Now that fella finishing cattle have seen the damage that the strike did to them

wrangler · 16-11-2019 12:10am

Panch18 wrote: »

I think if there are more pickets that the majority of farmers won’t be as obedient and the pickets will be broken en mass

Now that fella finishing cattle have seen the damage that the strike did to them

I was going to say that too, but thought better of it but guys have told me protestors won't be allowed to stay at the gates the next time, farmers are very bitter. A couple that ran the gauntlet last time claim they won't stop for anyone the next time

Anto_Meath · 16-11-2019 1:01am

I have said it here before. There is no point having a strike again, building up a back log of cattle for the factories to clobber us with the second they get a chance, like they are now. Farmers need to be smarter. Let them kill the cattle but dont let them get them out in the fridges or stand together and only provide them with the animals they dont particularly want like P1 grading animals. Sanding outside the gates fighting with your neighbours is no good for the farming industry. I hear lads in the marts at stupid crap like they wouldnt by certain other farmers cattle because of the stance the seller took during the protests... Farmers fell out because of the strike yet factories carry on as normal.

realitykeeper · 16-11-2019 1:12am

It`s over. What happens now? I guess the fat lady sings.

The Strike is over. What happens now?

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