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Belfast rape trial discussion thread II

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    #3002
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    This is even better news, somebody has finally had the balls to stand up and be counted and not blackmailed or bullied.

    You do realise nobody will pay them anywhere near what Guinness were paying them.

    Premiership clubs are haemorrhaging money as it is too.


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    #3003
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    This is even better news, somebody has finally had the balls to stand up and be counted and not blackmailed or bullied.
    Well, you make your bed. This was always going to come their way. They made a player call on ability but on someone whose personal behaviour a lot of people have issues with. There's free will at work there, from LI and people who object to who they've signed.


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    #3004
    Laois_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Jackman25 wrote: »
    Fair play to them. I hope they go on to have a great season.

    The reality is though - the spotlight is going to be on their other sponsors to leave them, and any prospective new one's to run a mile!


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    #3005
    thelad95
    Registered Users Posts: 7,812 ✭✭✭thelad95


    Rape is unbelievably difficult to prove and people can be acquitted on rape charges for a plethora of reasons, with the “accuser made it all up” being way down the list in terms of frequency and probability.

    A flimsy prosecution, insufficient evidence and a strong defense unfortunately leads many rape cases to a place where the defendant is not proven guilty (this does not prove innocence whatsoever it just means they cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that they did it).

    Regardless of the verdict, the evidence that did come out including text conversations and the behavior of the gentleman in question on that night is more than a reasonable justification for a sponsor to take the moral high ground and disassociate themselves with that behaviour.

    Anyone who immediately points to the young lady in question and says she made it all up obviously has a lack of understanding of how any judicial system works and should perhaps consider even a quick self education on the case (which I fear certain posters in this thread have neglected to undertake) before they affirm their opinion of her slanderous nature.


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    #3006
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,084 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Faugheen wrote: »
    You do realise nobody will pay them anywhere near what Guinness were paying them.

    Premiership clubs are haemorrhaging money as it is too.

    All the more heartening to see them stand up to Diageo...who no doubt would have been virtue signaling all over social media had they won out here.

    The rest of LI statement (the bolded bit) seems to infer a curious relationship anyhow, that may have been on the rocks earlier.
    London Irish said its management is “understandably disappointed that Diageo has chosen not to renew its sponsorship agreement with the club, and particularly the manner in which the company has chosen to do so”.

    “The club has always respected the right for everyone to have an opinion, and their right to express that opinion,” the statement said.

    “London Irish has been open and honest with all of its sponsors, including offering to meet Diageo’s senior management in Dublin in May, 2019. This offer was not taken up.”


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    #3007
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Jackman25 wrote: »
    You must be thrilled. Keep it going and maybe he will up homeless and penniless on the streets. Would that be enough penance to suit the high priest of boards.ie?
    Stand back and think about it calmly. Actions do have consequences, unfortunately for him and his new club, very predictable ones.


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    #3008
    SirGerryAdams
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 499 ✭✭SirGerryAdams


    jm08 wrote: »
    Diageo are gone

    Mils Muliaina

    Gerbrandt Grobler

    Ronan O'Gara

    Gareth Thomas

    Sean O'Brien

    When did Guinness discover these new found values? :)


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    #3009
    Cryptopagan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Cryptopagan


    It might be a big faceless corporation but this is the right move by Diageo. Hope London Irish folds. Imagine stooping so low as to sign someone with Jackson’s history.


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    #3010
    SirGerryAdams
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 499 ✭✭SirGerryAdams


    I would chip in a fiver in support of LI if they have a way of donating. Will probably actually buy a jersey in support of them.


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    #3011
    Jackman25
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭Jackman25


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Stand back and think about it calmly. Actions do have consequences, in his case unfortunately for him and his new club, very predictable ones.

    I am perfectly calm and what happens to PJ will make absolutely no difference to my life.
    I am not filled with hate or vindictiveness in any way. Sometimes the consequences far far outweigh the actions as Jon Ronsons book about social media shaming brilliantly illustrates.


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    #3012
    Jackman25
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭Jackman25


    Cryptopagan wrote: »
    It might be a big faceless corporation but this is the right move by Diageo. Hope London Irish folds. Imagine stooping so low as to sign someone with Jackson’s history.

    That vindictiveness will give you an ulcer. Imagine hoping a club and all its employees fold.
    What a scumbag thing to hope for. When the mask slips on the righteous, the raw nastiness is really exposed.


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    #3013
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Jackman25 wrote: »
    I am perfectly calm and what happens to PJ will make absolutely no difference to my life.
    I am not filled with hate or vindictiveness in any way. Sometimes the consequences far far outweigh the actions as Jon Ronsons book about social media shaming brilliantly illustrates.
    I think this set of circumstances goes a long way beyond random public shaming even if it offers a forum to do so.


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    #3014
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,782 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Cryptopagan wrote: »
    It might be a big faceless corporation but this is the right move by Diageo. Hope London Irish folds. Imagine stooping so low as to sign someone with Jackson’s history.

    Wow!! You really are a spiteful little person aren't you? An entire club with a its various employees, players etc to fold because they signed someone who wasn't found guilty of any charges by a court of law.
    A very spiteful little individual indeed.


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    #3015
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    9% of cases in Ireland are false accusations, among the highest in Europe according to a link I posted earlier in the thread.
    Why indeed would somebody do it.


    So 91% are true.


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    #3016
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Diageo are a ****ing disgrace.


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    #3017
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Look at all the outrage in here.

    You should all start a boycott against Diageo for being so offended.


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    #3018
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    SirGerryAdams wrote: »
    Mils Muliaina - What has Mils's arrest got to do with the IRFU? It was the British system that accused him.

    Gerbrandt Grobler From what I can gather, GG's contract wasn't renewed.

    Ronan O'Gara What did ROG do?

    Gareth Thomas I didn't know GT was accused of raping someone?

    Sean O'Brien I bet Leinster/Ireland are glad they are not renewing his contract.


    When did Guinness discover these new found values? As a former employee of Guinness (back in the 80s), I'd be very sure that Guinness had very strict codes of conduct on how its employees behaved and represented the company.


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    #3019
    Ohmeha
    Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭Ohmeha


    jm08 wrote: »
    In fairness to Guinness, it has a very fine reputation for being a responsible employer with a social conscience.
    Wow, Diageo and social conscience worded in the same sentence


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    #3020
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I said...read carefully now...he is NOT IN CONTROL of his public image. The public decide who and what he is.

    His public image is made up of the publics perception of his actions. He controls his own actions, therefore he controls his public image. Its not the publics fault he behaved as he did, its Paddy Jacksons fault and the public are then entitled to make up their own mind, which they clearly have.
    Laois_Man wrote: »
    The reality is though - the spotlight is going to be on their other sponsors to leave them, and any prospective new one's to run a mile!

    Thats the long and short of it. While they'll probably hold on to their other current sponsors (mainly construction companies and waste collection/sewerage companies) they will find it hard to attract new sponsorship, especially companies the size of Guinness.

    I'd say the board of London Irish are fuming now. They've to pay Jacksons wages when at the same time he is after costing them two sponsorships in the space of a few weeks, which is the very money that pays his wages. He certainly won't be winning employee of the month, thats for sure.


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    #3021
    jeffleppard
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭jeffleppard


    jm08 wrote: »
    Why would anyone falsely accuse someone of rape? What is there to be gained from it? You think it has been easy for the young woman (who was named on social media)? Why would someone do that to her anyway?

    Are you seriously trying to imply the rate of false accusations is 0%? Even studies done by victim advocacy groups (i.e. people who have a strong vested interest in the outcome being low) with extremely conservative definitions of false accusation still result in rates of about 5%, which is hardly negligible (for context, in the UK there are about 50,000 reports of rape per year - a 5% false accusation rate would mean 2,500 people per year get falsely accused).

    As for the reasons for false allegations, various studies have been done on this, e.g. this one on 57 proven false allegations:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28213722

    Reasons include, but are not limited to:

    Financial gain; emotional gain; alibi/covering up behaviour; mental illness; relabelling; attention-seeking; revenge; sympathy; and (from the study above):

    A large proportion, 20% of complainants, said that they did not know why they filed a false allegation

    I.e. some people did it simply because they wanted to


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    #3022
    griffin100
    Registered Users Posts: 4,776 ✭✭✭griffin100


    There’s something quite ironic about a company that makes and sells a drug developing a conscience about a sordid night and series of events where most of the main characters were under the influence of said drug.


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    #3023
    Cryptopagan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Cryptopagan


    mfceiling wrote: »
    Wow!! You really are a spiteful little person aren't you? An entire club with a its various employees, players etc to fold because they signed someone who wasn't found guilty of any charges by a court of law.
    A very spiteful little individual indeed.

    I 100% believe what happened to that girl that night was non-consensual. There was no reason for her to make that up. So to hell with Jackson, and to hell with his supporters.


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    #3024
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,084 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    jm08 wrote: »
    So 91% are true.
    Wow...how long did it take you to do the math there.

    9% are false. I don't know the figure for how many were true. I would imagine 91% is not the figure for provencases. the figure would be a good deal lower.


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    #3025
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    griffin100 wrote: »
    There’s something quite ironic about a company that makes and sells a drug developing a conscience about a sordid night and series of events where most of the main characters were under the influence of said drug.

    They have an easy answer to that - drink responsibly.


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    #3026
    jeffleppard
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭jeffleppard


    jm08 wrote: »
    So 91% are true.

    No, because it depends on:

    a. the definitions of true and false used in the study as to how high the rate of allegations that are designated true or false will be, and
    b. most fall into the category of unprovable one way or the other

    What you're saying is effectively just the inverse of saying something like '5% of all rape accused get found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, which must mean 95% of accusations are false', which is obviously nonsense


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    #3027
    lalababa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭lalababa


    What exactly are Diageos values? And how does PJ not align with them.
    Is one of Diageos steadfast values Not to be accused of rape but found innocent?
    WTF??? You couldn't make this **** up. Tis almost like the start of some dystopian Facebook virtue signalling idiot nightmare.


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    #3028
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Haha London Irish thought that one through alright :pac:


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    #3029
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,084 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    They have an easy answer to that - drink responsibly.

    The girl won't be getting sponsored either so.


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    #3030
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    really? because you have proof she lied, right?

    The only people we know lied are the rugby players.


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    #3031
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,782 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Cryptopagan wrote: »
    I 100% believe what happened to that girl that night was non-consensual. There was no reason for her to make that up. So to hell with Jackson, and to hell with his supporters.

    Ah you're another of these #ibelieveher idiots. The courts never charged him with rape and he walked out of court with no sentence applied. However it's not good enough for the "I don't care what the judge and jury decided" brigade.

    He has kept his head down for the past year and has neither spoken to the media about his name being constantly dragged through the gutter. His social media posts have been few and far between...Mostly of his dog larking around.

    This question has been asked numerous times in this thread but never answered...

    WHAT MORE CAN PADDY JACKSON DO TO ATONE FOR THAT NIGHT AND HOW MUCH LONGER WILL HE BE ACCUSED OF SOMETHING THAT HE WASN'T CHARGED WITH IN COURT?


This discussion has been closed.
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