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    #62
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    rachb wrote: »
    Probably because the people who cross the picket line are actually the ones and have been the ones paying the strikers wages by shopping in their store. But I'm sure they forget that now that they are striking.

    Oh....this old shte


    I hear the same shte at times in my job......what do people think....if it wasnt for them/place im working.

    That i wouldnt be working somewhere else earning money??


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    #63
    rachb
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭rachb


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    Oh....this old shte


    I hear the same shte at times in my job......what do people think....if it wasnt for them/place im working.

    That i wouldnt be working somewhere else earning money??

    Well it's not rocket science really....

    Without the customers , the company wouldn't still be here and the workers striking wouldn't have jobs in Tesco.


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    #64
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    rachb wrote: »
    Well it's not rocket science really....

    Without the customers , the company wouldn't still be here and the workers striking wouldn't have jobs in Tesco.

    But theyd have jobs somewhere else??

    Your crossing picket in a rather weak attempt to juatify it as its paying their wages
    (they dont be paid when on strike if i had to guess)



    By all means.....ignore the pickets and people looking out for themselves......but dont whinge about poor/bare minimum service you recive from them in the future?


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    #65
    rachb
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭rachb


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    But theyd have jobs somewhere else??

    Your crossing picket in a rather weak attempt to juatify it as its paying their wages
    (they dont be paid when on strike if i had to guess)



    By all means.....ignore the pickets and people looking out for themselves......but dont whinge about poor/bare minimum service you recive from them in the future?

    No I won't. I've already crossed it and will continue to do as I do my shopping weekly in Tesco. I was already thanked in store by a worker for shopping this week even with the strike.
    The workers "looking out for themselves" have been offered a fair package for their basically unskilled jobs, that they have been doing since pre 96, so I won't feel any remorse for doing so.


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    #66
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,990 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    seamus wrote: »
    Solidarity with what? So you support any strike, regardless of what it's about?

    one who has any bit of decentsy does not cross a picket whether they agree or disagree with a strike.
    ThisRegard wrote: »
    It's not just the money that's the issue, it's their totally inflexible work practices, who's slack has to be picked up by other employees. They don't have overwhelming support within the company and the nonsense of them going in, filling up trollies and abandoning them at the checkout only further antagonises relationships within the store, it's their colleagues who then have to sort that out.

    this bunch of lies have all ready been proven to be exactly that, lies. they were spouted at the very start of the dispute in an aim to discredit these poor workers, and thankfully the evidence showed them to be lies. try again.
    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Why should you have solidarity with something you're not involved in or don't agree with? Pretty much every private company has to continuously adapt to the market they operate in, the vast majority of employees in a company realise this and will work with them, their success is mutually beneficial.

    you don't cross a picket. that's it. if the company tries to screw you you do not take it lying down.
    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Like i said, it's their refusal to be flexible beyond their contracts from before 1996. Before the redundancy roll out you had for example butchers insisting they work the early hours and finish early in stores that didn't even have butchers anymore. Why would you want them working for you?

    doesn't happen, never happened. i'm sure there are some staff who are begrudgers and don't support their fellow workers because of jealousy but i'm afraid that is their problem.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #67
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,614 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Arghus wrote: »
    The term "starter job" is such a condescending phrase.
    Why?


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    #68
    ShaneU
    Registered Users Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭ShaneU


    Phoebas wrote: »
    There was a Tesco picket at the entrance to Artane Shopping Centre today.

    Not at the entrance to the Tesco inside the centre, but at the entrance to the whole shopping centre - which has another 15 retail businesses, all of whom aren't anything to do with the dispute, but will have been effected by the picket.
    Its a bad show by the Tesco strikers to be damaging the livelihoods of people not party to the dispute.

    The grounds of Artane Castle, including the car park are Tesco property, they're not allowed picket in it. Do you think they would stand out in the cold all day if they were allowed in the centre? use your head.


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    #69
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,990 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Should 250 disgruntled Tesco employees be allowed to hold everybody to ransom?

    Tesco do a great job, we'd be lost without them.

    nobody is being held to ransom, they can shop in plenty of other shops. we wouldn't be lost without Tesco as there are plenty of others who are actually cheeper and of better quality.
    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    €14 per hour is huge money for what's basically unskilled work. And it's more than their post 96 colleagues - doing the same job - are on.

    Yes retail wages are low: thats why most people pull finger, study and get into either management or another industry. Starter jobs should not be seen as jobs for life.

    such jobs are only starter jobs if one only wants them to be a starter job. to suggest that they are simply a starter job is the typical celtic tiger, looking down one's nose at others, drivelry and bull****tery, that turned us into the country we are now. there is nothing wrong with doing the same job indefinitely and showing loyalty to a company. the fact that others aren't on the same money is unfortunate for them but it's not the job of the workers who are on the money to forgo it for others. they must fight and keep their jobs and their terms.
    pauliebdub wrote: »
    I'd have no problem crossing a picket line - it does depend on what the strike was about though. I'm surprised that a company like Tesco recognises unions considering that they don't have to and few retailers do. I've never been a member of a union and have very little time for them.

    most likely economies of scale and efficientsy. much easier and more efficient to deal with a union then thousands of staff individually.
    rachb wrote: »
    No I won't. I've already crossed it and will continue to do as I do my shopping weekly in Tesco. I was already thanked in store by a worker for shopping this week even with the strike.
    The workers "looking out for themselves" have been offered a fair package for their basically unskilled jobs, that they have been doing since pre 96, so I won't feel any remorse for doing so.

    nope, they haven't been offered a fair anything.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #70
    Saoirse1981
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭Saoirse1981


    I shop online with Tesco every week. The other day I got a Survey from them asking amongst other questions had I heard anything about them in the media lately and if I thought they treated their workers fairly.

    I went to get a few bits in the store today, saw the picket line and changed my mind about going in the store.

    One or two of my delivery men are older men, I see them struggle to carry my goods up my steps. I always try help them. I know they don't make a lot but are trying to make something in their later years. I worked sh*t jobs myself most of my life. I wanted college but it was a different time for me and I never got it. I would work like a dog for someone who treats me right, I would still do my best for someone who treats me wrong but never put my heart in it.

    I cannot bring myself to walk past a picket line and I really want people who work hard and do sh*t jobs to be paid fairly. Its no fun struggling all your life.


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    #71
    Stigura
    Registered Users Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭Stigura


    Now, I Know I'm an absolute c*** here. But;

    When ever I have a scab? I just can't help but pick it! :D


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    #72
    Arghus
    Registered Users Posts: 14,363 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Phoebas wrote: »
    There was a Tesco picket at the entrance to Artane Shopping Centre today.

    Not at the entrance to the Tesco inside the centre, but at the entrance to the whole shopping centre - which has another 15 retail businesses, all of whom aren't anything to do with the dispute, but will have been effected by the picket.
    Its a bad show by the Tesco strikers to be damaging the livelihoods of people not party to the dispute.

    I believe that Tesco won't allow pickets at the enterance to the store, so the location they picked was as close as they were permitted to get.


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    #73
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,166 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    end of the road wrote: »
    one who has any bit of decentsy does not cross a picket whether they agree or disagree with a strike.

    Nonsense as usual.


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    #74
    Arghus
    Registered Users Posts: 14,363 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Should 250 disgruntled Tesco employees be allowed to hold everybody to ransom?

    Tesco do a great job, we'd be lost without them.

    Tesco agreed to these terms and conditions and now wants to force change through. It's been spun that it's all about a group who won't budge, but please remember that they aren't the ones who started the process. The pre-96ers aren't looking for extra; they just want the terms and conditions of their contracts - which the company entered into willlingly - to be honoured.

    Tesco have really won the PR war this time around. Last year when it looked like there was going to be a general nationwide strike, they kept fairly tight lipped about it in the media. This year - after getting about 90% of the pre96ers off the payroll in the meantime, which weakens the unions strength considerably - they've been out quickly and often to give everyone their version of events: Utter Crap like: How it's all about a teeny weeney group of workers who just keep asking for more and more etc, etc, and how they as a company should be patted on the back for being so magnanimous as to acknowledge unions (who they've worked quite successfully to undermine and weaken in the last 3 years) and contract bands for loyal workers who've worked there for years. Give me a break!


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    #75
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    ShaneU wrote: »
    The grounds of Artane Castle, including the car park are Tesco property, they're not allowed picket in it. Do you think they would stand out in the cold all day if they were allowed in the centre? use your head.
    Arghus wrote: »
    I believe that Tesco won't allow pickets at the enterance to the store, so the location they picked was as close as they were permitted to get.


    That certainly addresses the strikers motivations, but it completely ignores the needs of the other tenants in the shopping centre, many of them small businesses.

    Are Tesco strikers right to damage other businesses who have no part in this dispute?


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    #76
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    I can never fathom how people that do this...think its a good idea

    Theyll have to work/try live arpund the people theyve walked past??

    You want to know why......here's why......
    SeanW wrote: »
    No, just go somewhere else.

    The Tesco workers aren't like the public sector waestrels - they're in a business where they have to compete with other shops (unlike the PS, who work in State monopolies and can bring entire sectors of the country/economy to a halt). With private companies like Tesco, you can just go to another store.

    Also given how rare Private Sector strikes are relative to public sector, you have to suspect the company must have been a special kind of dick to push their workers to that point.

    All you're being asked to do is go to another shop ... it's not a Herculean feat.

    I worked in the PS up until recently and I remember vitriol poured on PS workers for striking - so it can hardly be surprising that people are less inclined towards respecting picket lines compared to previously?

    Plus, where are people supposed to shop? Dunne's have had their issues with staff and zero hours contracts (never mind how they continue to treat suppliers)......convenience stores are over-priced......Aldi and Lidl are non-union.

    oh, and by the way the current round of industrial unrest really started with the Luas workers and their private sector employer caving to their demands.

    ....and in this instance I don't know why there is such sympathy for the Tesco workers - they went to the WRC, they got a ruling and they still spat their dummy - I'm guessing if an employer followed a similar tack they'd be rightly filleted for it.


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    #77
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,871 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Delacent wrote: »
    The deal offered by tesco was said to have been quite good, but as usual the union thought they'd try and squeeze more.

    It backfired and they're now out on strike.

    Btw, Tesco is a public company and mostly owned by pension funds of ordinary people - the media will never explain that as it doesn't paint the nasty "big business" picture they like to portray.

    Dont forget the CEOs wages were 4.6 million last year.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #78
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    The people that are working I presume are the part-time staff. Secondary school and College students, with no safeguards. People can hardly expect them to strike


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    #79
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,871 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    mariaalice wrote: »
    And apparently there are only 250 staff involved Tesco are stupid on this one in general they are very good to work for.

    They're trying to break these workers next and then move onto the next ones.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #80
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Free market capitalism has failed, it's time for us to move on from it, only thing is, nobody really knows what to do next. Best of luck to the Tesco workers, the odds are seriously stacked against them


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    #81
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,871 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    €14 per hour is huge money for what's basically unskilled work. And it's more than their post 96 colleagues - doing the same job - are on.

    Yes retail wages are low: thats why most people pull finger, study and get into either management or another industry. Starter jobs should not be seen as jobs for life.

    Begrudgery of people working. I didnt think boards.ie could ever go this low.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #82
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,871 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Phoebas wrote: »
    There was a Tesco picket at the entrance to Artane Shopping Centre today.

    Not at the entrance to the Tesco inside the centre, but at the entrance to the whole shopping centre - which has another 15 retail businesses, all of whom aren't anything to do with the dispute, but will have been effected by the picket.
    Its a bad show by the Tesco strikers to be damaging the livelihoods of people not party to the dispute.

    Well actually thats tescos fault. They wont allow the unions to picket the storefronts. And also in the two tescos I have passed by they are oficially encouraging the public not to boycott other businesses.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #83
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Dont forget the CEOs wages were 4.6 million last year.

    So you're begrudging a guy who went to a Poly, then worked his way from an entry level position up through Unilever to head up Tesco his salary.....

    .....gotta love Ireland - instead of pointing out what getting an education and applying yourself in a job can bring, we get commentary about the salary :rolleyes:


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    #84
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,871 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Jawgap wrote: »
    So you're begrudging a guy who went to a Poly, then worked his way from an entry level position up through Unilever to head up Tesco his salary.....

    .....gotta love Ireland - instead of pointing out what getting an education and applying yourself in a job can bring, we get commentary about the salary :rolleyes:

    Nope

    I'm highlighting that Tesco is a highly profitable company that has no problem giving its senior management high wages.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #85
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Well actually thats tescos fault. They wont allow the unions to picket the storefronts. And also in the two tescos I have passed by they are oficially encouraging the public not to boycott other businesses.

    The Tesco closest to me are specifically holding their protests on the entrance roads to the shopping centre, whilst the other businesses at the shopping centre are struggling. If they are officially encouraging people not to boycott the other businesses, they are not doing a very good job of it.

    I support their cause but their behaviour isn't endearing themselves to anybody.


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    #86
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Well actually thats tescos fault. They wont allow the unions to picket the storefronts. And also in the two tescos I have passed by they are oficially encouraging the public not to boycott other businesses.

    Saying that it's Tesco's fault is a bit of a cop out. The strikers are responsible for where they mount their pickets - no one put a gun to their heads.

    And the vast majority of customers of the shopping centre I mentioned arrive by car, so there isn't any opportunity for Tesco strikers to encourage them not to boycott other businesses. They can't just stop for a chat at the roundabout at the entrance to the shopping centre.

    Its perfectly ok to argue that the collateral damage to other businesses is a price worth paying, but at least lets not try to pass the responsibility off to someone else.


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    #87
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    Jawgap wrote: »
    You want to know why......here's why......



    I worked in the PS up until recently and I remember vitriol poured on PS workers for striking - so it can hardly be surprising that people are less inclined towards respecting picket lines compared to previously?

    Plus, where are people supposed to shop? Dunne's have had their issues with staff and zero hours contracts (never mind how they continue to treat suppliers)......convenience stores are over-priced......Aldi and Lidl are non-union.

    oh, and by the way the current round of industrial unrest really started with the Luas workers and their private sector employer caving to their demands.

    ....and in this instance I don't know why there is such sympathy for the Tesco workers - they went to the WRC, they got a ruling and they still spat their dummy - I'm guessing if an employer followed a similar tack they'd be rightly filleted for it.

    I know noone who's poured vitol on anyone for striking anywhere...

    It's a basic right?




    Tbh....I dunno Howd they face going back to work with people what crossed a picket line....it's literally the last thing you should do to someone your working with imo

    At best they can hope they'll be civil to one and other after it....but I'd imagine it would make for a poisonous work atmosphere




    Quite how you try to tie this into the luas strike is a leap of logic....I'm somewhat baffled by???


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    #88
    Gringo180
    Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    €14 per hour is huge money for what's basically unskilled work. And it's more than their post 96 colleagues - doing the same job - are on.

    Yes retail wages are low: thats why most people pull finger, study and get into either management or another industry. Starter jobs should not be seen as jobs for life.

    What an ignorant fool you are. 14 euro per hour is a take home of about 450 euro max a week after tax. How on earth is that huge money? Unskilled work? They still put the 40 hours a week in like everybody else, what gives you the right to belittle people doing an honest weeks work and calling them "starter" jobs?

    You do know that not everybody can study and go into management or just move to another sector. What sort of Utopian world are you hailing from?


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    #89
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Nope

    I'm highlighting that Tesco is a highly profitable company that has no problem giving its senior management high wages.

    And that's an issue presumably covered in the WRC before they issued their decision.

    I know the WRC is non-binding (a fundamental weakness) but do you think it's ok for the union to ignore the decision......and equally would it be ok for Tesco or any other company to do likewise if a decision was issued that didn't suit them?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro-Tesco or pro-employer, I just don't agree with unions ignoring WRC or LC determinations when it wouldn't be ok for employers to do likewise.


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    #90
    Gringo180
    Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    Anybody who crosses a picket line and supports a multi million pound company like Tesco who try to change there workers contracts for the worse is morally bankrupt, whether they know it or not.


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    #91
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Saying that it's Tesco's fault is a bit of a cop out. The strikers are responsible for where they mount their pickets - no one put a gun to their heads.

    And the vast majority of customers of the shopping centre I mentioned arrive by car, so there isn't any opportunity for Tesco strikers to encourage them not to boycott other businesses. They can't just stop for a chat at the roundabout at the entrance to the shopping centre.

    Its perfectly ok to argue that the collateral damage to other businesses is a price worth paying, but at least lets not try to pass the responsibility off to someone else.

    Do they not have banners/signs identifying they are from Tesco?


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