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    #32
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    eeguy wrote: »
    They were offered redundancy last year of 5 weeks wages per year uncapped, so a touch under 3k per year worked. Since most of them have been there over 20 years (pre-96) it's upwards of 55k or so per person. Honestly it's not bad for a someone on 26k per year, working on tills or stacking shelves and who could probably get another job easy enough with all that experience.

    70% of them took the redundancy, but the rest are on strike over new changes to their contracts.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/over-70-of-long-serving-tesco-staff-accept-redundancy-offer-1.2618114



    The ones that are left are the younger ones from most of I know. The ones that snapped up 1st offer did so due to age and being closer to retirement anyway so worked out OK.

    It will be extremely difficult for most that are left to get another job.

    Its not big money at all anyway.

    If you think working in a shop is easy then you obviously have never done so yourself.


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    #33
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,374 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    seamus wrote: »
    Solidarity with what? So you support any strike, regardless of what it's about?

    I wouldn't pass a picket under any circumstances.
    Some things are sacred.


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    #34
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    The ones that are left are the younger ones from most of I know. The ones that snapped up 1st offer did so due to age and being closer to retirement anyway so worked out OK.

    It will be extremely difficult for most that are left to get another job.

    Its not big money at all anyway.

    If you think working in a shop is easy then you obviously have never done so yourself.
    Did it for years and years. Min. wage all the way!
    I'm not saying it's big money, definitely not enough to retire on. But its more than 2 years salary into the hand.

    I fully sympathise with the strikers. Jesus, you give more than 20 years of your life for sh*t pay and conditions, then your boss pulls the rug from under you.

    I'd probably have taken the money, gone on BTEA or something. Put myself through college and tried to get a decent job at the end. With 20 years of experience and a degree you'd be in a good place employment wise.
    I wouldn't pass their picket.


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    #35
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Banana Republican wrote: »
    You'd swear the long term staff were on huge money. They earn 14 euro an hour ffs how can that be considered good money?? . Tesco are a disgrace but they aren't the only ones. This race to the bottom is going to grind this country to a complete standstill if allowed continue.

    Also shame on anyone passing the picket line.

    And apparently there are only 250 staff involved Tesco are stupid on this one in general they are very good to work for.


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    #36
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    seamus wrote: »
    I don't see the issue crossing a picket?

    People are entitled to strike. I'm under no obligation to support that strike.

    What's the issue here?

    As was mentioned earlier in the thread, private sector strikes are rare enough these days. Employees working in a supermarket for 21+ years are loyal workers, considering most of those jobs do not require specific qualifications. These kind of jobs are low paid as it is, and Tesco want to cut that pay further. I've been on strike myself (public sector) and don't agree with all strikes blindly, but I don't like seeing people who have give long service get shafted.

    My local Tesco isn't affected, but if it is picketed I won't be crossing the line. The other argument given in this thread was 'what if people need to shop?' Tesco don't build stores in the middle of nowhere, they build them where there is a sizeable population base to make the shop viable. My closest Tesco is Carrick on Shannon, a town of just under 6,000 people. It also has a Supervalu, Aldi and Lidl and I suspect any other town in the country that has a Tesco has at least one other supermarket.


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    #37
    Grueller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,115 ✭✭✭Grueller


    seamus wrote: »
    Solidarity with what? So you support any strike, regardless of what it's about?

    Read what punisher5112 said above. Far better worded than I could have.
    Companies with massive profits crabbing about €14 p/h. Come on like.


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    #38
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    What money are the pre 96 staff on ?

    It's not just the money that's the issue, it's their totally inflexible work practices, who's slack has to be picked up by other employees. They don't have overwhelming support within the company and the nonsense of them going in, filling up trollies and abandoning them at the checkout only further antagonises relationships within the store, it's their colleagues who then have to sort that out.
    Grueller wrote: »
    I hope you never need to use recourse to strike in a dispute with an employer. What has happened to us as a people? No solidarity at all.

    Why should you have solidarity with something you're not involved in or don't agree with? Pretty much every private company has to continuously adapt to the market they operate in, the vast majority of employees in a company realise this and will work with them, their success is mutually beneficial.
    Grueller wrote: »
    Read what punisher5112 said above. Far better worded than I could have.
    Companies with massive profits crabbing about €14 p/h. Come on like.

    Like i said, it's their refusal to be flexible beyond their contracts from before 1996. Before the redundancy roll out you had for example butchers insisting they work the early hours and finish early in stores that didn't even have butchers anymore. Why would you want them working for you?


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    #39
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,374 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    It's not just the money that's the issue, it's their totally inflexible work practices, who's slack has to be picked up by other employees. They don't have overwhelming support within the company and the nonsense of them going in, filling up trollies and abandoning them at the checkout only further antagonises relationships within the store, it's their colleagues who then have to sort that out.



    Why should you have solidarity with something you're not involved in or don't agree with? Pretty much every private company has to continuously adapt to the market they operate in, the vast majority of employees in a company realise this and will work with them, their success is mutually beneficial.



    Like i said, it's their refusal to be flexible beyond their contracts from before 1996. Before the redundancy roll out you had for example butchers insisting they work the early hours and finish early in stores that didn't even have butchers anymore. Why would you want them working for you?

    Seeing as this thread is about the picket would you pass it or not?


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    #40
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Yes. The one I went by was at the entrance to the car park of a shopping centre.


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    #41
    Delacent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭Delacent


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    I call bull.

    That I don't believe for a second.

    100% verifiable fact.

    Over 700 out of just over 1000 pre 1996 staff took voluntary redundancy with average redundancy over €100,000

    Remaining pre 1996 staff have been given written guarantees that they will not have any pay reduction whatsoever.

    Mandate will never ever give the real story and many people just believe their story like sheep.

    Btw above is from the Labour court recommendation which Tesco agreed to adhere to.


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    #42
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Thargor wrote: »
    Ive been all over Wicklow and Dublin today and I saw several Tesco protests. The only really empty carpark was Bray, the rest of them looked pretty busy tbh, some like Glenageary outright packed.

    Tbh whatever you think of unions and whatnot I dont think any Tesco employee is living the highlife and the company could generally be described as a scummy operation especially the stories you hear about their attitude to suppliers, I doubt their attitute to staff is much better.

    Its kind of shocking so many people would just drive past a picket like that, Im not from any union family and Im not in one myself but Id never cross a picket like that especially for a bit of Sunday shopping, felt a bit disappointing tbh. Do people just not give a fcuk?

    Should 250 disgruntled Tesco employees be allowed to hold everybody to ransom?

    Tesco do a great job, we'd be lost without them.


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    #43
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,715 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Grueller wrote: »
    Read what punisher5112 said above. Far better worded than I could have.
    Companies with massive profits crabbing about €14 p/h. Come on like.

    €14 per hour is huge money for what's basically unskilled work. And it's more than their post 96 colleagues - doing the same job - are on.

    Yes retail wages are low: thats why most people pull finger, study and get into either management or another industry. Starter jobs should not be seen as jobs for life.


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    #44
    Delacent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭Delacent


    mariaalice wrote: »
    And apparently there are only 250 staff involved Tesco are stupid on this one in general they are very good to work for.

    No they're not - you have to understand the underhand tactics of unions.

    They get a better deal for 250, then they insist on same deal for the other 14,500.

    Civil service unions are masters at this

    Btw - guess who really pays?? Yep, the consumer.


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    #45
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    Delacent wrote: »
    No they're not - you have to understand the underhand tactics of unions.

    They get a better deal for 250, then they insist on same deal for the other 14,500.

    Civil service unions are masters at this

    Btw - guess who really pays?? Yep, the consumer.

    They did the same with teachers. Went on strike and burned the new entrants to get the old guard better conditions (on the expectation they'd be retiring soon), then went on strike to bring new entrants up to the old guard levels.

    Strike strike strike.


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    #46
    kenmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,276 ✭✭✭kenmc


    No picket in Tesco stillorgan this afternoon, least not that i noticed anyway. Hungry kids don't give a fiddlers as long as they get fed, so I would've had no qualms about passing one if there was one. In fact maybe I even did, who knows?


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    #47
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,321 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    If there's no picket line, you're not crossing a picket line.


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    #48
    pauliebdub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭pauliebdub


    I'd have no problem crossing a picket line - it does depend on what the strike was about though. I'm surprised that a company like Tesco recognises unions considering that they don't have to and few retailers do. I've never been a member of a union and have very little time for them.


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    #49
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    There was a Tesco picket at the entrance to Artane Shopping Centre today.

    Not at the entrance to the Tesco inside the centre, but at the entrance to the whole shopping centre - which has another 15 retail businesses, all of whom aren't anything to do with the dispute, but will have been effected by the picket.
    Its a bad show by the Tesco strikers to be damaging the livelihoods of people not party to the dispute.


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    #50
    rachb
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭rachb


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    I call bull.

    That I don't believe for a second.

    Not bull. What TESCO is offering is all explained here:
    The Labour Court's recommendation was as follows:

    Rate of pay is protected (90% of affected colleagues will see an increase in their rate of pay)
    Premiums paid in line with everyone else
    Pay increases implemented (now at 4%) as part of the Recommendation, as lump sum or rate increase
    5pc share bonus has been protected
    2/3 guaranteed overtime is protected
    Sundays continue to be voluntary
    Partial flexibility 2 days out of 5 on 5/6
    In event of loss of income, compensation paid at 2 times or 2.5 times annual loss depending on option
    Goodwill gesture of €2,000 or €3,000 depending on option to all affected colleagues
    OR Voluntary redundancy 5 weeks per year uncapped (average pay out to date is €105,000)


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    #51
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,265 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    elperello wrote: »
    I wouldn't pass a picket under any circumstances.
    Some things are sacred.

    So you wouldn't cross the picket line to end World hunger, cure cancer, prevent road deaths, etc?


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    #52
    gobo99
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭gobo99


    The €105,000 figure is an absolute lie from tesco of which there's no proof.
    Tesco have also not accepted the Labour court recommendation in full like they claim they have. Part of the recommendation was to participate in local negotiations with individual staff. Negotiate rates of pay, flexibility, etc... Tesco skipped this completely. It was a case of here's your offer, take it or f*** off.
    The Labour court recommendation was not binding and the staff had every right to reject it just as tesco have done in the past in other disputes.
    A contract is a contract and if you they didn't want to honour these contacts they shouldn't have agreed to do so in 1996.


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    #53
    Arghus
    Registered Users Posts: 14,362 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    €14 per hour is huge money for what's basically unskilled work. And it's more than their post 96 colleagues - doing the same job - are on.

    Yes retail wages are low: thats why most people pull finger, study and get into either management or another industry. Starter jobs should not be seen as jobs for life.

    The term "starter job" is such a condescending phrase.


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    #54
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    gobo99 wrote: »
    The €105,000 figure is an absolute lie from tesco of which there's no proof.

    So tell us why you're so sure it's a lie when simple mathematics leads to the contrary?


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    #55
    gobo99
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭gobo99


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    So tell us why you're so sure it's a lie when simple mathematics leads to the contrary?

    Show me figures then that haven't been doctored by tesco...


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    #56
    rachb
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭rachb


    gobo99 wrote: »
    Show me figures then that haven't been doctored by tesco...

    So the Labour Court recommendations have been doctored?


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    #57
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    gobo99 wrote: »
    Show me figures then that haven't been doctored by tesco...

    So you'll ignore simple maths. Tell us why it, us, the LC and Tesco are all wrong?


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    #58
    gobo99
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭gobo99


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    So you'll ignore simple maths. Tell us why it, us, the LC and Tesco are all wrong?

    Show me where you're getting these figures...


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    #59
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    seamus wrote: »
    I don't see the issue crossing a picket?

    People are entitled to strike. I'm under no obligation to support that strike.

    What's the issue here?

    I know people whove not spoken to some of their neighbours in nearly 30 years (longer than im alive) over 1 crossing a picket

    If you wish to laugh at peoples concerns and reasons their on strike...by all means....just dont complain when you get the absolute bare minimum of service at any establishment......you clearly dont care about them....why should they care about you??


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    #60
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    gobo99 wrote: »
    Show me where you're getting these figures...

    Pre 96, 5 weeks uncapped. Knock yourself out with a calculator.

    Now you tell us why you're certain it's all lies.


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    #61
    rachb
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭rachb


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    I know people whove not spoken to some of their neighbours in nearly 30 years (longer than im alive) over 1 crossing a picket

    If you wish to laugh at peoples concerns and reasons their on strike...by all means....just dont complain when you get the absolute bare minimum of service at any establishment......you clearly dont care about them....why should they care about you??

    Probably because the people who cross the picket line are actually the ones and have been the ones paying the strikers wages by shopping in their store. But I'm sure they forget that now that they are striking.


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