Scabs?

Thargor · 19-02-2017 9:55pm #1

Ive been all over Wicklow and Dublin today and I saw several Tesco protests. The only really empty carpark was Bray, the rest of them looked pretty busy tbh, some like Glenageary outright packed.

Tbh whatever you think of unions and whatnot I dont think any Tesco employee is living the highlife and the company could generally be described as a scummy operation especially the stories you hear about their attitude to suppliers, I doubt their attitute to staff is much better.

Its kind of shocking so many people would just drive past a picket like that, Im not from any union family and Im not in one myself but Id never cross a picket like that especially for a bit of Sunday shopping, felt a bit disappointing tbh. Do people just not give a fcuk?

Del2005 · 19-02-2017 9:57pm

People going shopping aren't scabs. People working during a strike are scabs.

SEPT 23 1989 · 19-02-2017 10:00pm

What money are the pre 96 staff on ?

19-02-2017 10:01pm

Thargor wrote: »

Its kind of shocking so many people would just drive past a picket like that, Im not from any union family and Im not in one myself but Id never cross a picket like that especially for a bit of Sunday shopping, felt a bit disappointing tbh. Do people just not give a fcuk?[/QUOTE]

I have mixed feelings about this, I WOULD NOT cross a picket line. BUT it's Sunday people have things to do for the week and it's Tesco.

tomwaterford · 19-02-2017 10:13pm

Del2005 wrote: »

People going shopping aren't scabs. People working during a strike are scabs.

I can never fathom how people that do this...think its a good idea

Theyll have to work/try live arpund the people theyve walked past??

Banana Republican · 19-02-2017 10:17pm

You'd swear the long term staff were on huge money. They earn 14 euro an hour ffs how can that be considered good money?? . Tesco are a disgrace but they aren't the only ones. This race to the bottom is going to grind this country to a complete standstill if allowed continue.

Also shame on anyone passing the picket line.

19-02-2017 10:18pm

Banana Republican wrote: »

You'd swear the long term staff were on huge money. They earn 14 euro an hour ffs how can that be considered good money?? . Tesco are a disgrace but they aren't the only ones. This race to the bottom is going to grind this country to a complete standstill if allowed continue.

What positions pay €14 an hour?

Delacent · 19-02-2017 10:18pm

The deal offered by tesco was said to have been quite good, but as usual the union thought they'd try and squeeze more.

It backfired and they're now out on strike.

Btw, Tesco is a public company and mostly owned by pension funds of ordinary people - the media will never explain that as it doesn't paint the nasty "big business" picture they like to portray.

ted1 · 19-02-2017 10:19pm

tomwaterford wrote: »

I can never fathom how people that do this...think its a good idea

Theyll have to work/try live arpund the people theyve walked past??

They have bills to pay and kids to feed.

What got me is the language used by the staff which was directed at the company. How they can return to work after the strike is beyond me

Thargor · 19-02-2017 10:21pm

222233 wrote: »

What do you expect them to do though? Not do their shopping for the week?

Because Tesco is the only shop these days?

19-02-2017 10:22pm

I'd be slow to cross a picket line, but as another poster pointed out, people who do are not scabs, that's reserved for workers who break a picket line.

But another wrong is the flying picket. It's just rent a crowd stuff, patching up picket lines when a strike is flagging as happened in the Miners Strike in the 80s.

punisher5112 · 19-02-2017 10:22pm

Its terrible carry on from such a huge company.

Look after your workers and they tend to be in most cases better and hard working especially when their efforts are appreciated.

Sad to see this carry on and do hope they get out the other side OK.

As above they are not on big money or close at all. Hopefully its sorted soon as down wages for all the strike days is not good either.

Good luck to them.

tomwaterford · 19-02-2017 10:24pm

222233 wrote: »

What do you expect them to do though? Not do their shopping for the week?

Are they barred from the other shops???

I was referring to the folks that crossed it to work....but you carry on misinterpeting

19-02-2017 10:24pm

Thargor wrote: »

Because Tesco is the only shop these days?

No but people are busy, people have things to do, it's not scabby to do your shopping, it doesn't mean you don't stand with or sympathise with others and their situation. I personally wouldn't do it unless I had to.

19-02-2017 10:25pm

tomwaterford wrote: »

Are they barred from the other shops???

I was referring to the folks that crossed it to work....but you carry on misinterpeting

Apologises, I got confused from original post and people mentioning other shops.

SeanW · 19-02-2017 10:26pm

222233 wrote: »

What do you expect them to do though? Not do their shopping for the week?

No, just go somewhere else.

The Tesco workers aren't like the public sector waestrels - they're in a business where they have to compete with other shops (unlike the PS, who work in State monopolies and can bring entire sectors of the country/economy to a halt). With private companies like Tesco, you can just go to another store.

Also given how rare Private Sector strikes are relative to public sector, you have to suspect the company must have been a special kind of dick to push their workers to that point.

All you're being asked to do is go to another shop ... it's not a Herculean feat.

Elemonator · 19-02-2017 10:26pm

Sometimes people are left with no choice. There maybe no other shops nearby or at least ones that sell the product or service they are looking for. Tesco Mobile comes to mind. Another example would be gluten free bread, its hard enough to get but with Tesco its very easy.

The people that annoy me are the people who will go in anyway because they couldn't care less. I was on Baggot Street on lunch the other day and there was a picket outside the store there. A particular group of customers were trying to cross the picket and the strikers pointed out their case and said there was a Spar across the road. The wallys was only looking to rise them.

ted1 · 19-02-2017 10:26pm

With the change of conditions are the staff not better of quitting and taking a constructive dismissal case?

19-02-2017 10:27pm

ted1 wrote: »

With the change of conditions are the staff not better of quitting and taking a constructive dismissal case?

Constructive dismissal cases are notoriously difficult, the bar is set very high. Most fail.

19-02-2017 10:28pm

SeanW wrote: »

No, just go somewhere else.

The Tesco workers aren't like the public sector waestrels - they're in a business where they have to compete with other shops (unlike the PS, who work in State monopolies and can bring entire sectors of the country/economy to a halt). With private companies like Tesco, you can just go to another store.

Also given how rare Private Sector strikes are relative to public sector, you have to suspect the company must have been a special kind of dick to push their workers to that point.

All you're being asked to do is go to another shop ... it's not a Herculean feat.

I'm just saying it wouldn't be convenient for everyone, as I already said I wouldn't do it.

I don't think it's fair to assume they are dicks, I'm not sure what the rate of pay for tesco is but is it inline with for instance, Aldi, Lidl, Dunnes, Supervalu?

punisher5112 · 19-02-2017 10:30pm

ted1 wrote: »

With the change of conditions are the staff not better of quitting and taking a constructive dismissal case?

Nope because if they left that would be it.

They are fighting to keep the contract they agreed to.

Its crazy to be honest the company makes a fortune in the Irish market and really should look after staff especially long term that have given many years service.

Also thinks its a sh1ty move where people pass by and continue shopping.

Dunne's was at the same crap and treating staff like rubbish.

Delacent · 19-02-2017 10:31pm

ted1 wrote: »

With the change of conditions are the staff not better of quitting and taking a constructive dismissal case?

They could take redundancy of over €100,000

The unions won't tell you that Tesco gave a written guarantee that earnings would not drop.

Union simply spouted misinformation and some suckers believed it.

SeanW · 19-02-2017 10:32pm

222233 wrote: »

I'm just saying it wouldn't be convenient for everyone, as I already said I wouldn't do it.

I don't think it's fair to assume they are dicks, I'm not sure what the rate of pay for tesco is but is it inline with for instance, Aldi, Lidl, Dunnes, Supervalu?

I don't know the finer points and don't claim to, but the public service unions routinely use strikes as a bargaining chip. Private sector strikes are very rare these days. So in wondering why these guys are an exception, I have to apply Occam's Razor "the simplest explanation is usually the correct one" and assume that Tesco management did something to justify the workers becoming an exception.

seamus · 19-02-2017 10:33pm

I don't see the issue crossing a picket?

People are entitled to strike. I'm under no obligation to support that strike.

What's the issue here?

punisher5112 · 19-02-2017 10:35pm

Delacent wrote: »

They could take redundancy of over €100,000

The unions won't tell you that Tesco gave a written guarantee that earnings would not drop.

Union simply spouted misinformation and some suckers believed it.

I call bull.

That I don't believe for a second.

Grueller · 19-02-2017 10:37pm

seamus wrote: »

I don't see the issue crossing a picket?

People are entitled to strike. I'm under no obligation to support that strike.

What's the issue here?

I hope you never need to use recourse to strike in a dispute with an employer. What has happened to us as a people? No solidarity at all.

seamus · 19-02-2017 10:40pm

Grueller wrote: »

I hope you never need to use recourse to strike in a dispute with an employer. What has happened to us as a people? No solidarity at all.

Solidarity with what? So you support any strike, regardless of what it's about?

andekwarhola · 19-02-2017 10:40pm

Wouldn't be a blind supporter of all strikes, especially some of the ones we witness in ireland but I would support one like this and not cross the picket. It's not exactly hard to switch supermarkets on the days there's a picket but each to their own.

elperello · 19-02-2017 10:41pm

The rights and wrongs of the strike are another argument.
The workers as members of a trade union have called a strike.
Take a side.
I'm not passing their picket.

punisher5112 · 19-02-2017 10:42pm

seamus wrote: »

Solidarity with what? So you support any strike, regardless of what it's about?

I support working people in general within reason. If it is for absolute rubbish no but this is people fighting for to keep what they originally got and have worked hard for it.

They have worked from before the boom through the boom through the crash and back out and are loyal so that in my book is a good worker and much better then the spongers out there that never work at all.

eeguy · 19-02-2017 10:43pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

I call bull.

That I don't believe for a second.

They were offered redundancy last year of 5 weeks wages per year uncapped, so a touch under 3k per year worked. Since most of them have been there over 20 years (pre-96) it's upwards of 55k or so per person. Honestly it's not bad for a someone on 26k per year, working on tills or stacking shelves and who could probably get another job easy enough with all that experience.

70% of them took the redundancy, but the rest are on strike over new changes to their contracts.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/over-70-of-long-serving-tesco-staff-accept-redundancy-offer-1.2618114

punisher5112 · 19-02-2017 10:48pm

eeguy wrote: »

They were offered redundancy last year of 5 weeks wages per year uncapped, so a touch under 3k per year worked. Since most of them have been there over 20 years (pre-96) it's upwards of 55k or so per person. Honestly it's not bad for a someone on 26k per year, working on tills or stacking shelves and who could probably get another job easy enough with all that experience.

70% of them took the redundancy, but the rest are on strike over new changes to their contracts.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/over-70-of-long-serving-tesco-staff-accept-redundancy-offer-1.2618114

The ones that are left are the younger ones from most of I know. The ones that snapped up 1st offer did so due to age and being closer to retirement anyway so worked out OK.

It will be extremely difficult for most that are left to get another job.

Its not big money at all anyway.

If you think working in a shop is easy then you obviously have never done so yourself.

elperello · 19-02-2017 10:49pm

seamus wrote: »

Solidarity with what? So you support any strike, regardless of what it's about?

I wouldn't pass a picket under any circumstances.
Some things are sacred.

eeguy · 19-02-2017 10:54pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

The ones that are left are the younger ones from most of I know. The ones that snapped up 1st offer did so due to age and being closer to retirement anyway so worked out OK.

It will be extremely difficult for most that are left to get another job.

Its not big money at all anyway.

If you think working in a shop is easy then you obviously have never done so yourself.

Did it for years and years. Min. wage all the way!
I'm not saying it's big money, definitely not enough to retire on. But its more than 2 years salary into the hand.

I fully sympathise with the strikers. Jesus, you give more than 20 years of your life for sh*t pay and conditions, then your boss pulls the rug from under you.

I'd probably have taken the money, gone on BTEA or something. Put myself through college and tried to get a decent job at the end. With 20 years of experience and a degree you'd be in a good place employment wise.
I wouldn't pass their picket.

mariaalice · 19-02-2017 10:59pm

Banana Republican wrote: »

You'd swear the long term staff were on huge money. They earn 14 euro an hour ffs how can that be considered good money?? . Tesco are a disgrace but they aren't the only ones. This race to the bottom is going to grind this country to a complete standstill if allowed continue.

Also shame on anyone passing the picket line.

And apparently there are only 250 staff involved Tesco are stupid on this one in general they are very good to work for.

rainbowtrout · 19-02-2017 11:05pm

seamus wrote: »

I don't see the issue crossing a picket?

People are entitled to strike. I'm under no obligation to support that strike.

What's the issue here?

As was mentioned earlier in the thread, private sector strikes are rare enough these days. Employees working in a supermarket for 21+ years are loyal workers, considering most of those jobs do not require specific qualifications. These kind of jobs are low paid as it is, and Tesco want to cut that pay further. I've been on strike myself (public sector) and don't agree with all strikes blindly, but I don't like seeing people who have give long service get shafted.

My local Tesco isn't affected, but if it is picketed I won't be crossing the line. The other argument given in this thread was 'what if people need to shop?' Tesco don't build stores in the middle of nowhere, they build them where there is a sizeable population base to make the shop viable. My closest Tesco is Carrick on Shannon, a town of just under 6,000 people. It also has a Supervalu, Aldi and Lidl and I suspect any other town in the country that has a Tesco has at least one other supermarket.

Grueller · 19-02-2017 11:12pm

seamus wrote: »

Solidarity with what? So you support any strike, regardless of what it's about?

Read what punisher5112 said above. Far better worded than I could have.
Companies with massive profits crabbing about €14 p/h. Come on like.

ThisRegard · 19-02-2017 11:30pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

What money are the pre 96 staff on ?

It's not just the money that's the issue, it's their totally inflexible work practices, who's slack has to be picked up by other employees. They don't have overwhelming support within the company and the nonsense of them going in, filling up trollies and abandoning them at the checkout only further antagonises relationships within the store, it's their colleagues who then have to sort that out.

Grueller wrote: »

I hope you never need to use recourse to strike in a dispute with an employer. What has happened to us as a people? No solidarity at all.

Why should you have solidarity with something you're not involved in or don't agree with? Pretty much every private company has to continuously adapt to the market they operate in, the vast majority of employees in a company realise this and will work with them, their success is mutually beneficial.

Grueller wrote: »

Read what punisher5112 said above. Far better worded than I could have.
Companies with massive profits crabbing about €14 p/h. Come on like.

Like i said, it's their refusal to be flexible beyond their contracts from before 1996. Before the redundancy roll out you had for example butchers insisting they work the early hours and finish early in stores that didn't even have butchers anymore. Why would you want them working for you?

elperello · 19-02-2017 11:48pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

It's not just the money that's the issue, it's their totally inflexible work practices, who's slack has to be picked up by other employees. They don't have overwhelming support within the company and the nonsense of them going in, filling up trollies and abandoning them at the checkout only further antagonises relationships within the store, it's their colleagues who then have to sort that out.

Why should you have solidarity with something you're not involved in or don't agree with? Pretty much every private company has to continuously adapt to the market they operate in, the vast majority of employees in a company realise this and will work with them, their success is mutually beneficial.

Like i said, it's their refusal to be flexible beyond their contracts from before 1996. Before the redundancy roll out you had for example butchers insisting they work the early hours and finish early in stores that didn't even have butchers anymore. Why would you want them working for you?

Seeing as this thread is about the picket would you pass it or not?

ThisRegard · 19-02-2017 11:49pm

Yes. The one I went by was at the entrance to the car park of a shopping centre.

Delacent · 19-02-2017 11:50pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

I call bull.

That I don't believe for a second.

100% verifiable fact.

Over 700 out of just over 1000 pre 1996 staff took voluntary redundancy with average redundancy over €100,000

Remaining pre 1996 staff have been given written guarantees that they will not have any pay reduction whatsoever.

Mandate will never ever give the real story and many people just believe their story like sheep.

Btw above is from the Labour court recommendation which Tesco agreed to adhere to.

LordSutch · 19-02-2017 11:52pm

Thargor wrote: »

Ive been all over Wicklow and Dublin today and I saw several Tesco protests. The only really empty carpark was Bray, the rest of them looked pretty busy tbh, some like Glenageary outright packed.

Tbh whatever you think of unions and whatnot I dont think any Tesco employee is living the highlife and the company could generally be described as a scummy operation especially the stories you hear about their attitude to suppliers, I doubt their attitute to staff is much better.

Its kind of shocking so many people would just drive past a picket like that, Im not from any union family and Im not in one myself but Id never cross a picket like that especially for a bit of Sunday shopping, felt a bit disappointing tbh. Do people just not give a fcuk?

Should 250 disgruntled Tesco employees be allowed to hold everybody to ransom?

Tesco do a great job, we'd be lost without them.

Mrs OBumble · 19-02-2017 11:53pm

Grueller wrote: »

Read what punisher5112 said above. Far better worded than I could have.
Companies with massive profits crabbing about €14 p/h. Come on like.

€14 per hour is huge money for what's basically unskilled work. And it's more than their post 96 colleagues - doing the same job - are on.

Yes retail wages are low: thats why most people pull finger, study and get into either management or another industry. Starter jobs should not be seen as jobs for life.

Delacent · 19-02-2017 11:55pm

mariaalice wrote: »

And apparently there are only 250 staff involved Tesco are stupid on this one in general they are very good to work for.

No they're not - you have to understand the underhand tactics of unions.

They get a better deal for 250, then they insist on same deal for the other 14,500.

Civil service unions are masters at this

Btw - guess who really pays?? Yep, the consumer.

eeguy · 20-02-2017 12:10am

Delacent wrote: »

No they're not - you have to understand the underhand tactics of unions.

They get a better deal for 250, then they insist on same deal for the other 14,500.

Civil service unions are masters at this

Btw - guess who really pays?? Yep, the consumer.

They did the same with teachers. Went on strike and burned the new entrants to get the old guard better conditions (on the expectation they'd be retiring soon), then went on strike to bring new entrants up to the old guard levels.

Strike strike strike.

kenmc · 20-02-2017 12:20am

No picket in Tesco stillorgan this afternoon, least not that i noticed anyway. Hungry kids don't give a fiddlers as long as they get fed, so I would've had no qualms about passing one if there was one. In fact maybe I even did, who knows?

super_furry · 20-02-2017 12:21am

If there's no picket line, you're not crossing a picket line.

pauliebdub · 20-02-2017 12:28am

I'd have no problem crossing a picket line - it does depend on what the strike was about though. I'm surprised that a company like Tesco recognises unions considering that they don't have to and few retailers do. I've never been a member of a union and have very little time for them.

Phoebas · 20-02-2017 12:30am

There was a Tesco picket at the entrance to Artane Shopping Centre today.

Not at the entrance to the Tesco inside the centre, but at the entrance to the whole shopping centre - which has another 15 retail businesses, all of whom aren't anything to do with the dispute, but will have been effected by the picket.
Its a bad show by the Tesco strikers to be damaging the livelihoods of people not party to the dispute.

rachb · 20-02-2017 12:34am

punisher5112 wrote: »

I call bull.

That I don't believe for a second.

Not bull. What TESCO is offering is all explained here:
The Labour Court's recommendation was as follows:

Rate of pay is protected (90% of affected colleagues will see an increase in their rate of pay)
Premiums paid in line with everyone else
Pay increases implemented (now at 4%) as part of the Recommendation, as lump sum or rate increase
5pc share bonus has been protected
2/3 guaranteed overtime is protected
Sundays continue to be voluntary
Partial flexibility 2 days out of 5 on 5/6
In event of loss of income, compensation paid at 2 times or 2.5 times annual loss depending on option
Goodwill gesture of €2,000 or €3,000 depending on option to all affected colleagues
OR Voluntary redundancy 5 weeks per year uncapped (average pay out to date is €105,000)

freshpopcorn · 20-02-2017 12:34am

elperello wrote: »

I wouldn't pass a picket under any circumstances.
Some things are sacred.

So you wouldn't cross the picket line to end World hunger, cure cancer, prevent road deaths, etc?

Scabs?

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