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RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

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    #122
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,871 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    By the way ...the greyhound industry obviously forgot to entertain the bigwigs at RTE then...

    There is no way they would be reporting this then!

    It needs to be reported to a wider Audience.

    Many ppl have known for years what has been happening.

    Not sure what is the point of your post.

    It was reported.

    On Primetime TV.

    As it should be.


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    #123
    Always Tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Always Tired


    Well if we breed 16 times more greyhounds than the much larger and more populated UK, then EVERYTHING that happens to the extra animals is relevant, whether they are sent to China or illegal knackeries.

    Because we are breeding way, way more than we can humanely house, or even humanely dispose of.

    There's nothing unfair or unbalanced about the reporting, pure numbers will tell you it's a complete sh!tshow.


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    #124
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    anewme wrote: »
    It needs to be reported to a wider Audience.

    Many ppl have known for years what has been happening.

    Not sure what is the point of your post.

    It was reported.

    On Primetime TV.

    As it should be.


    Yes .I agree..all i am saying is ....it would have been very easy for RTE to be discouraged. That is the way they work. There are a lot of things they are 'discouraged' from reporting. Just letting you know.


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    #125
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Straffan1979 wrote: »
    Knackeries r licensed to kill fallen animals in the fashion shown ; should they be killing dogs- absolutely not- horrific; there’s a very small number of these- this will be dealt with swiftly I’d imagine; the vibe seemed to be oh every Greyhound owner in the country visits knackeries;

    Incredibly naive thinking if 6000 are killed annually. It costs multiples to put them down humanely so they are not.


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    #126
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    Straffan1979 wrote: »

    why do we need to include that graphic footage of dog markets in Asia ? 20% of people in China eat dogs - there’s nothing the IGB can do about that;

    There’s an onus on the national broadcaster to deliver fair and balanced reporting; the vibe I got here was to launch a total broadside on the Irish Greyhound Industry and inflict maximum damage - get the Industry banned and get hare coursing banned at all costs; that’s not balanced reporting.

    It's not unbalanced.

    The alternative is simply to say "Most of these dogs are exported".

    If you don't say where, people don't know and don't know why it's important. So you say China.

    If you don't say what happens to them when they get there, people don't know and they don't know why it matters that they go to China. So you say they are exported there as food.

    As with any statement of fact, if you are reporting honestly you should provide some evidence, particularly if your statement is something your audience is going to find unbelievable. So you show them footage to back up your assertions.

    It's not unbalanced. Many people would not believe it otherwise and it is relevant to the discussion. The excess dogs are NOT rehomed.


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    #127
    maggiepip
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭maggiepip


    Straffan1979 wrote: »
    We can control it- and we will control it and we should control it.

    why do we need to include that graphic footage of dog markets in Asia ? 20% of people in China eat dogs - there’s nothing the IGB can do about that;

    There’s an onus on the national broadcaster to deliver fair and balanced reporting; the vibe I got here was to launch a total broadside on the Irish Greyhound Industry and inflict maximum damage - get the Industry banned and get hare coursing banned at all costs; that’s not balanced reporting.

    These are legal sports in the country and should be afforded due process- whether u agree with them or not.

    Knackeries r licensed to kill fallen animals in the fashion shown ; should they be killing dogs- absolutely not- horrific; there’s a very small number of these- this will be dealt with swiftly I’d imagine; the vibe seemed to be oh every Greyhound owner in the country visits knackeries;

    It’s not balanced or reasoned reporting- there’s an onus to afford the industry that at least

    Who says its not reasoned or balanced reporting? You? Don't you think there probably wasn't a hell of a lot of positives to do the balancing.


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    #128
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    The last post on a greyhound racing forum here is from a month ago. Tumbleweed. Tracks are closing.

    Who gets to spend the 16 million and on what?


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    #129
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    strandroad wrote: »
    Incredibly naive thinking if 6000 are killed annually. It costs multiples to put them down humanely so they are not.


    Just for comparison.

    There are 6000 dogs put down annually. That is just racing.

    In comparison in total it's 7000 horses roughly slaughtered each year. That's not just horse racing that is in total. It's the semi feral horses you see in Dublin. It's horses we couldn't rescue etc. All horse sports etc. The number went up in 2012 because of the economic collapse. etc.
    It's ALL breeds etc.

    This is just dogs from the racecourse. It's only greyhounds!


    horses-slaughtered.jpg


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    #130
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    strandroad wrote: »
    The last post on a greyhound racing forum here is from a month ago. Tumbleweed. Tracks are closing.

    Who gets to spend the 16 million and on what?
    The betting industry mostly.


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    #131
    Lackadaisical
    Closed Accounts Posts: 518 ✭✭✭Lackadaisical


    What I don't understand is why the hell it's state subsidised.


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    #132
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    strandroad wrote: »
    Incredibly naive thinking if 6000 are killed annually. It costs multiples to put them down humanely so they are not.


    It wouldn't really. I mean farmers have to it.


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    #133
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Lackadaisical wrote: »
    What I don't understand is why the hell it's state subsidised.


    Its not.

    None of that money really goes into the dog side of the industry.

    That is WHY you have this issue.

    The money goes to the betting industry not the welfare of the dogs.

    Trainers don't see that money.

    Not even the PUNTERS see that money.

    The big betting companies see it.

    They claim it creates jobs. And they are probably right.


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    #134
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    The betting industry mostly.

    How is that?


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    #135
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    strandroad wrote: »
    How is that?


    The subsidies go to track facilities and staff wages. Meaning the betting industry doesn't have to pay for facilities they would otherwise have to and wages they would otherwise have to.

    In most other countries the betting industry has to fund any sport with betting revenues.

    This doesn't happen in Ireland.

    So again it saves the betting industry HUGE amounts.

    Although if you WERE to put the welfare of dogs purely on betting revenues etc it might be worse for dog welfare.


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    #136
    Always Tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Always Tired


    Lackadaisical wrote: »
    What I don't understand is why the hell it's state subsidised.

    Same reason we don't make Apple pay the billions it owes us in tax. Because it provides jobs, and this country thinks that is the holiest of holy grails.

    Our government wouldn't care if 60 thousand dogs were killed, as long as it keeps a hundred lads off the dole, keeps betting companies in huge profits, etd. So they can continue to tax the workers, tax the betting companies profits, and round and round she goes.


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    #137
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Always Tired wrote: »
    Same reason we don't make Apple pay the billions it owes us in tax. Because it provides jobs, and this country thinks that is the holiest of holy grails.

    Our government wouldn't care if 60 thousand dogs were killed, as long as it keeps a hundred lads off the dole, keeps betting companies in huge profits, etd. So they can continue to tax the workers, tax the betting companies profits, and round and round she goes.


    I think we need to meet in the middle here. People do need to work.


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    #138
    Lackadaisical
    Closed Accounts Posts: 518 ✭✭✭Lackadaisical


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Its not.

    None of that money really goes into the dog side of the industry.

    That is WHY you have this issue.

    The money goes to the betting industry not the welfare of the dogs.

    Trainers don't see that money.

    Not even the PUNTERS see that money.

    The big betting companies see it.

    They claim it creates jobs. And they are probably right.

    In other words, when we forget about the semantics, the industry is state funded.
    If it weren’t for those flashy stadia we apparently all paid for, it would be a lot smaller.


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    #139
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Lackadaisical wrote: »
    In other words, when we forget about the semantics, the industry is state funded.
    If it weren’t for those flashy stadia we apparently all paid for, it would be a lot smaller.


    Yes.

    Well ...maybe betting revenue would make up for it. I don't know.

    But yes you have the idea.

    Also I have to say I am probably biased. My brother worked in the Industry for a bit.

    And he is a vegetarian!

    He doesn't work there now though.

    Its not a great industry.


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    #140
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    The subsidies go to track facilities and staff wages. Meaning the betting industry doesn't have to pay for facilities they would otherwise have to and wages they would otherwise have to.

    In most other countries the betting industry has to fund any sport with betting revenues.

    This doesn't happen in Ireland.

    So again it saves the betting industry HUGE amounts.

    Although if you WERE to put the welfare of dogs purely on betting revenues etc it might be worse for dog welfare.

    Thank you for the explanation but the phrase dog welfare has no application here. This industry relies on the constant destruction of dogs, it's its actual business model. Half of them are killed before they even see the track, hundreds are killed during their races and many more injured (and so also killed). And what happens to the slower ones? And then to the old ones? 12 thousands a year are bred to be killed sooner or later (minus a few hundred rehomed and a handful kept to sire and breed).

    Shame on this entire industry and anyone who supports it.


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    #141
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    strandroad wrote: »
    Thank you for the explanation but the phrase dog welfare has no application here. This industry relies on the constant destruction of dogs, it's its actual business model. Half of them are killed before they even see the track, hundreds are killed during their races and many more injured (and so also killed). And what happens to the slower ones? And then to the old ones? 12 thousands a year are bred to be killed (minus a few hundred rehomed and a handful kept to sire and breed).

    Shame on this entire industry and anyone who supports it.


    It depends. Some trainers are scum. Some aren't. And yes for the ones who are scum that is a business model.

    They can't have non profitable dogs to feed and care for etc.

    I wouldn't say all of them don't care about the dogs . Some try and get their slow dogs rescued. But they tend to be smaller trainers and breeders though.

    If they make it to the races they mostly make it ok though. I mean they will be health enough in most cases to be re homed. That is IF they will try to.

    But let's be honest ..where do you put 6000 dogs???

    THERE ARE NO OTHER DOG SPORTS REALLY IN IRELAND! So they can only be pets. And we just can't re home that many each year.

    And dogs don't need to be trained that much and the grow up quick so the turn over is really really fast.

    And there is not a lot of money in selling them.

    Its a really dirty industry though. Lots of doping. They don't even care they gave 'dog of the year' to a dog that tested positive.

    Shame though ...amazing animals ...second faster land animal after the cheetah over short distances.


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    #142
    unreg999
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭unreg999


    Pythagorean wrote: »
    The Chinese actually boiled a greyhound alive in a big cooking pot. Utterly horrific.

    I watched a documentary about that... I physically threw up and my heart still hurts... was bawling again the whole way through the programme tonight :(

    They believe that the meat tastes better the more then animal suffers so they torture them, boil them alive, burn them alive with blow torches, kick them to death or skin them alive... all in the name of taste.

    It no better than a lot of what happens to the meat that ends up on our plates here by the way but people get a lot more upset when it's dogs or cats

    Humans are the worst evil f*ckers to walk this earth


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    #143
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Horse racing is a great humane and noble sport.

    It's produced amazing horses that are well cared for ...better than in most other stables imo.

    Tell that to the equine rescues who end up trying to save cob foals discarded by the racing industry.
    See thoroughbred mares aren't very maternal - so cob mares are used as "wet nurses", this means the cob mare needs to have foaled. That foal is then surplus to requirement.

    The horses with the potential to earn money are well cared for - the others are not.


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    #144
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    unreg999 wrote: »
    They believe that the meat tastes better the more then animal suffers so they torture them, boil them alive, burn them alive with blow torches, kick them to death or skin them alive... all in the name of taste.
    :confused::confused:

    Um. I don't think so. I think you might be naive.


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    #145
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    If they make it to the races they mostly make it ok though. I mean they will be health enough in most cases to be re homed.

    I find it impossible to believe, if half make it to the track rescues are most definitely not rehoming 6000 greyhounds a year. A couple hundred at best. Then some are kept for breeding. The remaining 5000 are also killed one way or another.


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    #146
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    :confused::confused:

    Um. I don't think so. I think you might be naive.

    He's not naive.
    That is exactly what they believe.


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    #147
    maggiepip
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭maggiepip


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    :confused::confused:

    Um. I don't think so. I think you might be naive.

    What do you mean by that comment?


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    #148
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Tell that to the equine rescues who end up trying to save cob foals discarded by the racing industry.
    See thoroughbred mares aren't very maternal - so cob mares are used as "wet nurses", this means the cob mare needs to have foaled. That foal is then surplus to requirement.

    The horses with the potential to earn money are well cared for - the others are not.


    I rode in an equine rescue for two years. I also worked in another one for one year.

    I don't know WHERE you get the idea there are cob thoroughbred crosses on the race track?? That wouldn't work.

    There are cob thoroughbred crosses in eventing and showjumping etc.

    But they wouldn't have the speed nor the right reactions. Cobs are coldbloods and very sensitive to downward transitions.Its why the crosses are so good for showjumping because they 'collect' well.

    It just wouldn't work on a racetrack though. That isn't to say thoroughbreds cannot be good in eventing and showjumping they obv can.

    I don't know where you are getting that information from. But it doesn't make sense.

    Also I worked in France at a stable that had a thoroughbred mare in foal and I assure you she was a very good mum. And yes the foal was hopefully to be for the racetrack.

    I have never seen a cob breed on a racetrack unless it was like an exhibition novelty race like this.



    As you can it just wouldn't work.

    I love cobs though :P!


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    #149
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    Corrupt sport. Dogs get thrown in a river prior to a race to tire them out and also get injected with coke to speed them up. Nonsense sport.


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    #150
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    I rode in an equine rescue for two years. I also worked in another one for one year.

    I don't know WHERE you get the idea there are cob thoroughbred crosses on the race track?? That wouldn't work.

    There are cob thoroughbred crosses in eventing and showjumping etc.

    But they wouldn't have the speed nor the right reactions. Cobs are coldbloods and very sensitive to downward transitions.Its why the crosses are so good for showjumping because they 'collect' well.

    It just wouldn't work on a racetrack though. That isn't to say thoroughbreds cannot be good in eventing and showjumping they obv can.

    I don't know where you are getting that information from. But it doesn't make sense.

    Also I worked in France at a stable that had a thoroughbred mare in foal and I assure you she was a very good mum. And yes the foal was hopefully to be for the racetrack.

    I have never seen a cob breed on a racetrack unless it was like an exhibition novelty race like this.



    As you can it just wouldn't work.

    I love cobs though :P!

    Did you even read what I said?

    I never mentioned cross breeding.
    I said cob mares who have foaled are used as wet nurses for thoroughbred foals. The cob foal then becomes surplus to requirements.
    They, if they are lucky, end up in rescue where people are desperately trying to feed them to keep them alive. Most aren't that lucky.


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    #151
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    maggiepip wrote: »
    What do you mean by that comment?


    It seems to me very naive to think that in China people believe if you torture a dog it tastes better.

    And since I have known several Chinese people since childhood it just stood out to me.

    Eating dog in china is for some a tradition its not as mainstream as people think.


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