RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

A lot of botox is produced in Ireland. I would be amazed if people think that’s not tested on animals first. Unfortunately, we’re not at the point of completely replacing animal testing. There are a few medical uses for botox but it’s mostly used cosmetically. China is not the only country that tests cosmetics on animals. I don’t agree with it for non-essential, non-medical products by the way, but it would be naïve to think that it doesn’t happen in Ireland.



Thankfully, you don’t get to decide who posts!

But I do get to report OT posts

Straffan1979

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Erm- what they showed on RTÉ this evening, is illegal in Ireland.

So shut up about you’re dog eating nonsense. .

Why are we talking about the Irish/GB Greyhound Industry in the context of eating dogs in Asia - ask yourself that?

It brought nothing to this programme except sensationalist nonsense that distracted from the illegal behavior highlighted in Ireland- that’s the point I’m making ; it was unnecessary IMO.

That footage has done the rounds on various animal rights channels for years- they’re still eating dogs in Asia. Let’s focus on what we can control and make a real impact on.

‘Oh coursing people are evil monsters’-that’s goin to make an impact alright!

Gen.Zhukov

anewme wrote: »

Well I was pillored and the whole thread was removed right here on boards.ie because I said it was a great day for animal welfare in Ireland that the Puppy Farmer in Carlow was convicted. A moderator said... you must be sick...

It was an even better day that this individual lost his appeal and that conviction was upheld.

I've never seen karma work out so well as in that fcukers case.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Deleted User wrote: »

But I do get to report OT posts

I’m on topic. People have said that Ireland had a poor record for animal welfare. It’s a fair point to make to say that that’s not totally true. In some areas - yes. In others - no.

But trot out the winky smilie, it doesn’t mean that my posts will be actioned.

Always Tired

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Completely and utterly agree. I had written a very similar post about 10 minutes ago and it didn’t get posted for some reason (maybe my mistake). We have an appalling track record in Ireland for animal welfare, far far worse than the UK. Remember the recent jailing of Wexford puppy breeder , carcasses of dogs and horses found on his farm!

I spoke to 3 people this weekend who were saying they were getting dogs . ALL of them were getting brand new puppies. I suggested rescue dogs and it was something they had never considered as they wanted pure bred puppies. Our rescue centres are bursting at the seams .

But that’s another story, let’s concentrate at the moment on the poor innocent greyhounds. I noticed that it was all men who were involved in coursing and greyhound breeding , plus racing , selling and abuse of these dogs.... not women. Do men not have the same feelings as women when it comes to animal welfare?

Some of the most high profile cases of animal cruelty in recent memory involved women. That fat solicitor woman who left her dog, moved out of the house and it starved/dehydrated (there were pics in the paper of it laying near a mop bucket it tried to drink from in desperation. The cat in the bin.

If you actually watch the dog races you can see plainly that half the handlers and employees are women.

I'm male and worked full time at a shelter in the US and while I was vastly outnumbered by the women, that was likely due in part to the fact that it was min wage work and a second/supplementary income. If a man wants to work with animals they tend to become a vet. And many vets do a lot of work with rescues.

Women are more nurturing etc in general and less likely to violently abuse any creature but in the cases of coursing or racing, the men aren't being mean to the animals for kicks.

It's for money. like everything else in this craphole world. That's why they race and course and that's why less men are involved in rescues which are all either unpaid (hardly any in Ireland are not 100% volunteers) or low paid. We're not all unkind but we are all under pressure to be earners, providers etc. Trust me no woman cares how many puppies you saved if you can't provide for the car, mortgage etc.

And if you haven't see the video that was popular on FB a month or so ago about the guy who was mountain biking across europe or asia or somewhere and adopted a homeless kitten from a pile of rubble and took it on the journey with him, you should look it up!

ILoveYourVibes

OP if you stop funding it through tax way way more dogs are going to be killed!

And yes I agree it's shocking.

There is no way to rehome ALL the dogs etc.

It needs to be reduced.

You won't get it banned tho.

Also its not just racing here ..WE EXPORT dogs to everywhere in europe ...so even if you BAN it here they will still breed them..and it will go underground.

Berserker

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But the breeders, racers, abusers, knackers who killed these dogs, drivers who transported them ,the Chinese who boiled them, were all men.

Plenty of women in the knackeries giving out prices when the reporter rang. The person who took the money from the reporter at the first knackery he visited was a woman.

robz150

The suits in the IGB will be hoping something big happens in the news tomorrow so this will blow over and they can still get their bonuses. No doubt an inquiry will be announced, should all be forgotten in a few weeks time.

Maybe they will be brought before the public accounts committee and do what the FAI did.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’m on topic. People have said that Ireland had a poor record for animal welfare. It’s a fair point to make to say that that’s not totally true. In some areas - yes. In others - no.

But trot out the winky smilie, it doesn’t mean that my posts will be actioned.

Well it will be a good test if the piece of sh1te that passes as a valid post in AH still stands here

maggiepip

Straffan1979 wrote: »

Why are we talking about the Irish/GB Greyhound Industry in the context of eating dogs in Asia - ask yourself that?

It brought nothing to this programme except sensationalist nonsense that distracted from the illegal behavior highlighted in Ireland- that’s the point I’m making ; it was unnecessary IMO.

That footage has done the rounds on various animal rights channels for years- they’re still eating dogs in Asia. Let’s focus on what we can control and make a real impact on.

‘Oh coursing people are evil monsters’-that’s goin to make an impact alright!

Because Irish greyhounds are ending up in China, are you saying we can't control that or something?

maggiepip

maggiepip wrote: »

Because Irish greyhounds are ending up in China, are you saying we can't control that or something?

Thanks- my point precisely

Always Tired

Forget about the tax part. The only way to stop this is to make it illegal to bet on. Thats what the entire thing is based on. Prize money for most dog races is low 3 figures. It's so low I often wondered how it's even viable for the dog owners taking into account vet bills, petrol to transport the dogs, etc.

But obvs when you can put them down for a tenner you start to see the picture more clearly. And anyone charging a tenner is definitely shooting them. The chemicals for injection cost a good bit more than a bullet.

If you stop the gambling you stop the racing and the cruelty that goes along with it.

But that will never happen. Gambling is the fastest growing addiction by far in this country.

And anyone who thinks horse racing is just as bad, well it is and it isn't. You only need to look at the dingy, depressing looking venues dog racing is held in and compare it to horse racing tracks to see the difference. But England and Ireland have excellent standards for their facilities in horse racing, other countries not always.

ILoveYourVibes

Give the money to horseracing instead!

ILoveYourVibes

Always Tired wrote: »

Forget about the tax part. The only way to stop this is to make it illegal to bet on. Thats what the entire thing is based on. Prize money for most dog races is low 3 figures. It's so low I often wondered how it's even viable for the dog owners taking into account vet bills, petrol to transport the dogs, etc.

But obvs when you can put them down for a tenner you start to see the picture more clearly. And anyone charging a tenner is definitely shooting them. The chemicals for injection cost a good bit more than a bullet.

If you stop the gambling you stop the racing and the cruelty that goes along with it.

But that will never happen. Gambling is the fastest growing addiction by far in this country.

And anyone who thinks horse racing is just as bad, well it is and it isn't. You only need to look at the dingy, depressing looking venues dog racing is held in and compare it to horse racing tracks to see the difference. But England and Ireland have excellent standards for their facilities in horse racing, other countries not always.

Horse racing is not just as bad. There is a higher standard of care.

It's a different ballgame.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Deleted User wrote: »

Well it will be a good test if the piece of sh1te that passes as a valid post in AH still stands here

What is your problem with my posts? What makes them “shïte”? If they are not up to the standard, I’ll be reprimanded. What is the point of also protesting loudly on thread? I’m not going to stop posting if I still have things to say, unless I’m instructed by a mod to no longer post. Passive-aggressive smilies and insulting my posts don’t intimidate me. Why are you stooping to that? I’d suggest you are in no position to judge the quality of the posts of other users.

ILoveYourVibes

maggiepip wrote: »

Because Irish greyhounds are ending up in China, are you saying we can't control that or something?

Because those dogs are unregistered as it is. So no for some reason we obviously can't.

The Satanist

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Give the money to horseracing instead!

GTFO with that. It isn't "the" money, it's OUR money. And it shouldn't be anywhere near these so- called sports.

ILoveYourVibes

By the way ...the greyhound industry obviously forgot to entertain the bigwigs at RTE then...

There is no way they would be reporting this then!

ILoveYourVibes

The Satanist wrote: »

GTFO with that. It isn't "the" money, it's OUR money. And it shouldn't be anywhere near these so- called sports.

Horse racing is a great humane and noble sport.

It's produced amazing horses that are well cared for ...better than in most other stables imo.

Straffan1979

maggiepip wrote: »

Because Irish greyhounds are ending up in China, are you saying we can't control that or something?

We can control it- and we will control it and we should control it.

why do we need to include that graphic footage of dog markets in Asia ? 20% of people in China eat dogs - there’s nothing the IGB can do about that;

There’s an onus on the national broadcaster to deliver fair and balanced reporting; the vibe I got here was to launch a total broadside on the Irish Greyhound Industry and inflict maximum damage - get the Industry banned and get hare coursing banned at all costs; that’s not balanced reporting.

These are legal sports in the country and should be afforded due process- whether u agree with them or not.

Knackeries r licensed to kill fallen animals in the fashion shown ; should they be killing dogs- absolutely not- horrific; there’s a very small number of these- this will be dealt with swiftly I’d imagine; the vibe seemed to be oh every Greyhound owner in the country visits knackeries;

It’s not balanced or reasoned reporting- there’s an onus to afford the industry that at least

anewme

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

By the way ...the greyhound industry obviously forgot to entertain the bigwigs at RTE then...

There is no way they would be reporting this then!

It needs to be reported to a wider Audience.

Many ppl have known for years what has been happening.

Not sure what is the point of your post.

It was reported.

On Primetime TV.

As it should be.

Always Tired

Well if we breed 16 times more greyhounds than the much larger and more populated UK, then EVERYTHING that happens to the extra animals is relevant, whether they are sent to China or illegal knackeries.

Because we are breeding way, way more than we can humanely house, or even humanely dispose of.

There's nothing unfair or unbalanced about the reporting, pure numbers will tell you it's a complete sh!tshow.

ILoveYourVibes

anewme wrote: »

It needs to be reported to a wider Audience.

Many ppl have known for years what has been happening.

Not sure what is the point of your post.

It was reported.

On Primetime TV.

As it should be.

Yes .I agree..all i am saying is ....it would have been very easy for RTE to be discouraged. That is the way they work. There are a lot of things they are 'discouraged' from reporting. Just letting you know.

strandroad

Straffan1979 wrote: »

Knackeries r licensed to kill fallen animals in the fashion shown ; should they be killing dogs- absolutely not- horrific; there’s a very small number of these- this will be dealt with swiftly I’d imagine; the vibe seemed to be oh every Greyhound owner in the country visits knackeries;

Incredibly naive thinking if 6000 are killed annually. It costs multiples to put them down humanely so they are not.

wiggle16

Straffan1979 wrote: »

why do we need to include that graphic footage of dog markets in Asia ? 20% of people in China eat dogs - there’s nothing the IGB can do about that;

There’s an onus on the national broadcaster to deliver fair and balanced reporting; the vibe I got here was to launch a total broadside on the Irish Greyhound Industry and inflict maximum damage - get the Industry banned and get hare coursing banned at all costs; that’s not balanced reporting.

It's not unbalanced.

The alternative is simply to say "Most of these dogs are exported".

If you don't say where, people don't know and don't know why it's important. So you say China.

If you don't say what happens to them when they get there, people don't know and they don't know why it matters that they go to China. So you say they are exported there as food.

As with any statement of fact, if you are reporting honestly you should provide some evidence, particularly if your statement is something your audience is going to find unbelievable. So you show them footage to back up your assertions.

It's not unbalanced. Many people would not believe it otherwise and it is relevant to the discussion. The excess dogs are NOT rehomed.

maggiepip

Straffan1979 wrote: »

We can control it- and we will control it and we should control it.

why do we need to include that graphic footage of dog markets in Asia ? 20% of people in China eat dogs - there’s nothing the IGB can do about that;

There’s an onus on the national broadcaster to deliver fair and balanced reporting; the vibe I got here was to launch a total broadside on the Irish Greyhound Industry and inflict maximum damage - get the Industry banned and get hare coursing banned at all costs; that’s not balanced reporting.

These are legal sports in the country and should be afforded due process- whether u agree with them or not.

Knackeries r licensed to kill fallen animals in the fashion shown ; should they be killing dogs- absolutely not- horrific; there’s a very small number of these- this will be dealt with swiftly I’d imagine; the vibe seemed to be oh every Greyhound owner in the country visits knackeries;

It’s not balanced or reasoned reporting- there’s an onus to afford the industry that at least

Who says its not reasoned or balanced reporting? You? Don't you think there probably wasn't a hell of a lot of positives to do the balancing.

strandroad

The last post on a greyhound racing forum here is from a month ago. Tumbleweed. Tracks are closing.

Who gets to spend the 16 million and on what?

ILoveYourVibes

strandroad wrote: »

Incredibly naive thinking if 6000 are killed annually. It costs multiples to put them down humanely so they are not.

Just for comparison.

There are 6000 dogs put down annually. That is just racing.

In comparison in total it's 7000 horses roughly slaughtered each year. That's not just horse racing that is in total. It's the semi feral horses you see in Dublin. It's horses we couldn't rescue etc. All horse sports etc. The number went up in 2012 because of the economic collapse. etc.
It's ALL breeds etc.

This is just dogs from the racecourse. It's only greyhounds!

ILoveYourVibes

strandroad wrote: »

The last post on a greyhound racing forum here is from a month ago. Tumbleweed. Tracks are closing.

Who gets to spend the 16 million and on what?

The betting industry mostly.

Lackadaisical

What I don't understand is why the hell it's state subsidised.

ILoveYourVibes

strandroad wrote: »

Incredibly naive thinking if 6000 are killed annually. It costs multiples to put them down humanely so they are not.

It wouldn't really. I mean farmers have to it.

ILoveYourVibes

Lackadaisical wrote: »

What I don't understand is why the hell it's state subsidised.

Its not.

None of that money really goes into the dog side of the industry.

That is WHY you have this issue.

The money goes to the betting industry not the welfare of the dogs.

Trainers don't see that money.

Not even the PUNTERS see that money.

The big betting companies see it.

They claim it creates jobs. And they are probably right.

strandroad

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The betting industry mostly.

How is that?

ILoveYourVibes

strandroad wrote: »

How is that?

The subsidies go to track facilities and staff wages. Meaning the betting industry doesn't have to pay for facilities they would otherwise have to and wages they would otherwise have to.

In most other countries the betting industry has to fund any sport with betting revenues.

This doesn't happen in Ireland.

So again it saves the betting industry HUGE amounts.

Although if you WERE to put the welfare of dogs purely on betting revenues etc it might be worse for dog welfare.

Always Tired

Lackadaisical wrote: »

What I don't understand is why the hell it's state subsidised.

Same reason we don't make Apple pay the billions it owes us in tax. Because it provides jobs, and this country thinks that is the holiest of holy grails.

Our government wouldn't care if 60 thousand dogs were killed, as long as it keeps a hundred lads off the dole, keeps betting companies in huge profits, etd. So they can continue to tax the workers, tax the betting companies profits, and round and round she goes.

ILoveYourVibes

Always Tired wrote: »

Same reason we don't make Apple pay the billions it owes us in tax. Because it provides jobs, and this country thinks that is the holiest of holy grails.

Our government wouldn't care if 60 thousand dogs were killed, as long as it keeps a hundred lads off the dole, keeps betting companies in huge profits, etd. So they can continue to tax the workers, tax the betting companies profits, and round and round she goes.

I think we need to meet in the middle here. People do need to work.

Lackadaisical

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its not.

None of that money really goes into the dog side of the industry.

That is WHY you have this issue.

The money goes to the betting industry not the welfare of the dogs.

Trainers don't see that money.

Not even the PUNTERS see that money.

The big betting companies see it.

They claim it creates jobs. And they are probably right.

In other words, when we forget about the semantics, the industry is state funded.
If it weren’t for those flashy stadia we apparently all paid for, it would be a lot smaller.

ILoveYourVibes

Lackadaisical wrote: »

In other words, when we forget about the semantics, the industry is state funded.
If it weren’t for those flashy stadia we apparently all paid for, it would be a lot smaller.

Yes.

Well ...maybe betting revenue would make up for it. I don't know.

But yes you have the idea.

Also I have to say I am probably biased. My brother worked in the Industry for a bit.

And he is a vegetarian!

He doesn't work there now though.

Its not a great industry.

strandroad

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The subsidies go to track facilities and staff wages. Meaning the betting industry doesn't have to pay for facilities they would otherwise have to and wages they would otherwise have to.

In most other countries the betting industry has to fund any sport with betting revenues.

This doesn't happen in Ireland.

So again it saves the betting industry HUGE amounts.

Although if you WERE to put the welfare of dogs purely on betting revenues etc it might be worse for dog welfare.

Thank you for the explanation but the phrase dog welfare has no application here. This industry relies on the constant destruction of dogs, it's its actual business model. Half of them are killed before they even see the track, hundreds are killed during their races and many more injured (and so also killed). And what happens to the slower ones? And then to the old ones? 12 thousands a year are bred to be killed sooner or later (minus a few hundred rehomed and a handful kept to sire and breed).

Shame on this entire industry and anyone who supports it.

ILoveYourVibes

strandroad wrote: »

Thank you for the explanation but the phrase dog welfare has no application here. This industry relies on the constant destruction of dogs, it's its actual business model. Half of them are killed before they even see the track, hundreds are killed during their races and many more injured (and so also killed). And what happens to the slower ones? And then to the old ones? 12 thousands a year are bred to be killed (minus a few hundred rehomed and a handful kept to sire and breed).

Shame on this entire industry and anyone who supports it.

It depends. Some trainers are scum. Some aren't. And yes for the ones who are scum that is a business model.

They can't have non profitable dogs to feed and care for etc.

I wouldn't say all of them don't care about the dogs . Some try and get their slow dogs rescued. But they tend to be smaller trainers and breeders though.

If they make it to the races they mostly make it ok though. I mean they will be health enough in most cases to be re homed. That is IF they will try to.

But let's be honest ..where do you put 6000 dogs???

THERE ARE NO OTHER DOG SPORTS REALLY IN IRELAND! So they can only be pets. And we just can't re home that many each year.

And dogs don't need to be trained that much and the grow up quick so the turn over is really really fast.

And there is not a lot of money in selling them.

Its a really dirty industry though. Lots of doping. They don't even care they gave 'dog of the year' to a dog that tested positive.

Shame though ...amazing animals ...second faster land animal after the cheetah over short distances.

unreg999

Pythagorean wrote: »

The Chinese actually boiled a greyhound alive in a big cooking pot. Utterly horrific.

I watched a documentary about that... I physically threw up and my heart still hurts... was bawling again the whole way through the programme tonight

They believe that the meat tastes better the more then animal suffers so they torture them, boil them alive, burn them alive with blow torches, kick them to death or skin them alive... all in the name of taste.

It no better than a lot of what happens to the meat that ends up on our plates here by the way but people get a lot more upset when it's dogs or cats

Humans are the worst evil f*ckers to walk this earth

Bannasidhe

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Horse racing is a great humane and noble sport.

It's produced amazing horses that are well cared for ...better than in most other stables imo.

Tell that to the equine rescues who end up trying to save cob foals discarded by the racing industry.
See thoroughbred mares aren't very maternal - so cob mares are used as "wet nurses", this means the cob mare needs to have foaled. That foal is then surplus to requirement.

The horses with the potential to earn money are well cared for - the others are not.

ILoveYourVibes

unreg999 wrote: »

They believe that the meat tastes better the more then animal suffers so they torture them, boil them alive, burn them alive with blow torches, kick them to death or skin them alive... all in the name of taste.

Um. I don't think so. I think you might be naive.

strandroad

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If they make it to the races they mostly make it ok though. I mean they will be health enough in most cases to be re homed.

I find it impossible to believe, if half make it to the track rescues are most definitely not rehoming 6000 greyhounds a year. A couple hundred at best. Then some are kept for breeding. The remaining 5000 are also killed one way or another.

Bannasidhe

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Um. I don't think so. I think you might be naive.

He's not naive.
That is exactly what they believe.

maggiepip

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Um. I don't think so. I think you might be naive.

What do you mean by that comment?

ILoveYourVibes

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Tell that to the equine rescues who end up trying to save cob foals discarded by the racing industry.
See thoroughbred mares aren't very maternal - so cob mares are used as "wet nurses", this means the cob mare needs to have foaled. That foal is then surplus to requirement.

The horses with the potential to earn money are well cared for - the others are not.

I rode in an equine rescue for two years. I also worked in another one for one year.

I don't know WHERE you get the idea there are cob thoroughbred crosses on the race track?? That wouldn't work.

There are cob thoroughbred crosses in eventing and showjumping etc.

But they wouldn't have the speed nor the right reactions. Cobs are coldbloods and very sensitive to downward transitions.Its why the crosses are so good for showjumping because they 'collect' well.

It just wouldn't work on a racetrack though. That isn't to say thoroughbreds cannot be good in eventing and showjumping they obv can.

I don't know where you are getting that information from. But it doesn't make sense.

Also I worked in France at a stable that had a thoroughbred mare in foal and I assure you she was a very good mum. And yes the foal was hopefully to be for the racetrack.

I have never seen a cob breed on a racetrack unless it was like an exhibition novelty race like this.

As you can it just wouldn't work.

I love cobs though :P!

Dante7

Corrupt sport. Dogs get thrown in a river prior to a race to tire them out and also get injected with coke to speed them up. Nonsense sport.

Bannasidhe

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I rode in an equine rescue for two years. I also worked in another one for one year.

I don't know WHERE you get the idea there are cob thoroughbred crosses on the race track?? That wouldn't work.

There are cob thoroughbred crosses in eventing and showjumping etc.

But they wouldn't have the speed nor the right reactions. Cobs are coldbloods and very sensitive to downward transitions.Its why the crosses are so good for showjumping because they 'collect' well.

It just wouldn't work on a racetrack though. That isn't to say thoroughbreds cannot be good in eventing and showjumping they obv can.

I don't know where you are getting that information from. But it doesn't make sense.

Also I worked in France at a stable that had a thoroughbred mare in foal and I assure you she was a very good mum. And yes the foal was hopefully to be for the racetrack.

I have never seen a cob breed on a racetrack unless it was like an exhibition novelty race like this.

As you can it just wouldn't work.

I love cobs though :P!

Did you even read what I said?

I never mentioned cross breeding.
I said cob mares who have foaled are used as wet nurses for thoroughbred foals. The cob foal then becomes surplus to requirements.
They, if they are lucky, end up in rescue where people are desperately trying to feed them to keep them alive. Most aren't that lucky.

ILoveYourVibes

maggiepip wrote: »

What do you mean by that comment?

It seems to me very naive to think that in China people believe if you torture a dog it tastes better.

And since I have known several Chinese people since childhood it just stood out to me.

Eating dog in china is for some a tradition its not as mainstream as people think.