Royal Canal on a Road Bike

Fighting Tao · 04-02-2019 6:47pm

Mercian Pro wrote: »

The Dublin Cycling Campaign has posted on FB that work has (finally) started on the Sheriff Street to North Strand section or Phase 2 as Dublin City Council call it.

I meant to post here earlier. It started a couple of weeks ago. It’s whwre the locals light their bonfires so I expect patches of tarmac to be burned midsummer and at Halloween.

Mercian Pro · 14-02-2019 4:54pm

Mercian Pro wrote: »

I have just messaged Waterways Ireland about and will update here if and when I hear from them. It would be crazy for them to have to tender the last short bit separately when they now have a similar contract in place.

Waterways Ireland got back to me to say that the section from Deey Bridge to Maynooth will be upgraded "in the near future" but not as part of the current contract.

Mercian Pro · 17-02-2019 9:30pm

An "emerging preferred route" has been identified by the consultants working on the 12th lock to the Kildare border section. This is to go on display in the Civic Offices in Blanchardstown from 25 February until 22 March. The project team will be present on 5 March to answer questions and explain the scheme. Submissions can be made up to 22 March.

Should be worth a visit for anyone interested in cycling or walking this section. How they propose to deal with the Deep Sinking will be particularly interesting. No mention yet as to whether all the info will be available on-line as well.

wildlifeboy · 20-02-2019 3:41pm

when are they doing coolmine to porterstown?

Mercian Pro · 20-02-2019 4:28pm

wildlifeboy wrote: »

when are they doing coolmine to porterstown?

That's part of the section from the 12th Lock to near Leixlip that is going on public display in five days time. The drawings are already available at https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/royal-canal-urban-greenway-public-engagement?fbclid=IwAR3zDdF4TibO-5HwGoE6Y26rvvu1OLw8De4XT8B8IjW-TATZV1_23qWh9WI

The last word I think on timing was design work to continue through 2019 with planning permission in 2020 followed presumably by construction later that year.

cdaly_ · 20-02-2019 5:04pm

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Should be worth a visit for anyone interested in cycling or walking this section. How they propose to deal with the Deep Sinking will be particularly interesting. No mention yet as to whether all the info will be available on-line as well.

Looks like the Deep Sinking is left alone with the greenway diverting north of the canal west of Castleknock station and reconnecting with the existing track on the north side east of Clonsilla. Probably the best thing to do as to construct anything rideable on the south bank would disrupt it significantly.

Mercian Pro · 20-02-2019 6:41pm

cdaly_ wrote: »

Looks like the Deep Sinking is left alone with the greenway diverting north of the canal west of Castleknock station and reconnecting with the existing track on the north side east of Clonsilla. Probably the best thing to do as to construct anything rideable on the south bank would disrupt it significantly.

Yes, a 2012 report by Atkins proposed a cantilevered path on the south bank but there were a lot of problems with it. Another of their options was a diversion through housing estates! The new proposal makes a lot more sense and will hopefully be adopted.

wildlifeboy · 22-02-2019 11:53am

i am very happy with that proposal, it'll be brilliant

wildlifeboy · 22-02-2019 12:37pm

theyre going behind delwood and roselawn when the other side between coolmine and castleknock is pretty fine, very strange.

schemingbohemia · 22-02-2019 2:05pm

wildlifeboy wrote: »

theyre going behind delwood and roselawn when the other side between coolmine and castleknock is pretty fine, very strange.

From the drawings the towpath on the south side isn't wide enough (4m) and the hill beside it (between the towpath and railway line) seems to present engineering difficulties in building it wider so it seems sensible to go on the north side.

wildlifeboy · 22-02-2019 3:19pm

my delwood friends arent happy about it

Mercian Pro · 23-02-2019 12:56pm

wildlifeboy wrote: »

my delwood friends arent happy about it

All the more reason for cyclists to make submissions supporting it. It doesn't take much in Ireland for politicians to oppose something once there's a hint of local opposition. Cyclists in Fingal should let their Councillors (and would-be Councillors) know that they support this and other investments in cycling when they come looking for votes later in the year.

magicbastarder · 05-03-2019 2:25pm

wildlifeboy wrote: »

my delwood friends arent happy about it

there's a public information session about it today, my father is heading along.
i had assumed it'd be on the castleknock side of the canal, but apparently not, which makes a bit more sense.
some of our old neighbours won't be madly happy, and my mother was saying there are rumours their cul de sac will be used for access for construction traffic, but i bet there's a lot of fog of war and some rumours will hopefully be cleared up or quashed.

she was saying there's broad support for it in the area though.

Mercian Pro · 05-03-2019 3:23pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

there's a meeting about it today, my father is heading along.
.....she was saying there's broad support for it in the area though.

If there is broad support, it certainly wasn't evident at the information session in Blanchardstown this morning. I'd say I was probably the only one supporting the proposals out of the 30+ people there. Overlooking of back gardens, increased crime and vandalism, noise, dirt and disruption during construction and "why can't it go on the south bank?" The only Councillor present seemed happy to stir things up no doubt with an eye on potential votes in the local elections.

Even if this scheme gets the go ahead, it will still probably be the last section of the 147km Greenway to be completed. Unless the local opposition is countered, it could end up being two Greenways - Dublin to Castleknock and Porterstown to Cloondara! Make your views known at https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/royal-canal-urban-greenway-public-engagement

magicbastarder · 05-03-2019 3:33pm

Mercian Pro wrote: »

If there is broad support, it certainly wasn't evident at the information session in Blanchardstown this morning.

i suspect nay-sayers are more likely to attend these things than supporters.

plus, i know from some neighbour's experience that it's more difficult for supporters to say to a nay-sayer that they disagree politely, than the converse.

from what i understand, a lot of the gardens along the canal there have what i think is called a 'garden lease' for land that's not theirs, but i strongly suspect many will consider those gardens to be rightfully theirs.

magicbastarder · 05-03-2019 11:09pm

from talking to my folks again, it seems that the objections (well, the ones they thought to mention or have heard) boil largely down to permeability. the plan would be that any cul de sac along that stretch would have pedestrian access at the end to get onto the greenway. so that introduces the following concerns:
- parking; delwood green is within a 5 minute walk of coolmine railway station and already has to deal with a lot of park and ride parking (why would you pay ~€5 a day to park in the station car park when you can park a 5 minute walk away); but this would make it easier to park in other parts of the estate and walk to the station.
- (inevitably), crime - miscreants could evade the rozzers by escaping onto the greenway. there were several laneways closed in the estate many years ago due to 'antisocial' behaviour, so you're going to inevitably get the 'we're all going to be burgled' response.
- disruption from the construction phase; doesn't seem to be that big a concern, to be fair.
- the houses on delwood green which back onto the canal have been used to having nothing behind them except the canal since the 70s, and will now have a decent amount of traffic passing by. those residents will undoubtedly have objections.

i suspect there's going to be a 'why do all the cul de sacs need access onto the greenway' question raised, and i suspect the obvious answer would be so that no one cul de sac can claim to be taking the brunt of it.

my mother certainly seems positive about it, she likes the idea of being able to walk along the canal for about half her walk to mass.

Mercian Pro · 06-03-2019 4:45pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

from talking to my folks again, it seems that the objections (well, the ones they thought to mention or have heard) boil largely down to permeability. the plan would be that any cul de sac along that stretch would have pedestrian access at the end to get onto the greenway ......
i suspect there's going to be a 'why do all the cul de sacs need access onto the greenway' question raised, and i suspect the obvious answer would be so that no one cul de sac can claim to be taking the brunt of it.

This sounds very like what happened at the section currently under construction between Sheriff Street and the North Strand. Residents on the some of the streets nearby objected to proposed links onto the Greenway. DCC agreed to omit the links for now but to review it again after a year or two of use. Were this to happen at Delwood, the main losers would be residents like your mother who want to use the Greenway. There is probably an argument too that increased permeability will lead to increased surveillance and less antisocial behaviour but I didn't feel like raising that yesterday with the locals &#55358;&#56597;

On the issue of parking by users of the station, the best solution as we found in Drumcondra, is permit parking.

magicbastarder · 06-03-2019 5:13pm

i suspect the very concept of permit parking has not made it out to fingal yet, and i can imagine the howls of outrage from the residents - the 'do i need permission to park outside my own house?' ones (this is not to say i have sympathy for such a reaction).

the main problem is that those like my parents who would be broadly welcoming are maybe not going to stand up in front of neighbours who would claim to be more directly affected, and support it, when it could result in a worsening in neighbourly relations. i've seen similar where i live, where there was a kinda neighbourhood committee formed to object to metro north. i avoided the meetings like a hot snot, i think the metro is sorely needed.

Effects · 06-03-2019 8:36pm

Most of the houses affected seem to have driveways as well so parking permits might affect them differently than the likes of Drumcondra, where it's mainly on street parking.

Red Soup · 16-03-2019 12:47pm

mloc123 wrote: »

Not looking good, they have closed the canal from Intel back towards Confey but no sign of anything in the other direction

Any updates on this? Is it still closed? Planning on cycling Dublin to Mullingar at the start of April

mloc123 · 16-03-2019 1:15pm

Red Soup wrote: »

Any updates on this? Is it still closed? Planning on cycling Dublin to Mullingar at the start of April

Have not been over that way in a few weeks. Will check this weekend.

Gerry · 16-03-2019 3:35pm

It was closed off last Tuesday when I went for a royal canal commute and I see the under construction from the train every other day, it's nowhere near finished.

devonp · 16-03-2019 6:36pm

Louisa bridge to Confey still open, not sure about Confey heading east (dont walk the dog that far...)
from Intel to LB is only a short hop on the road

mloc123 · 16-03-2019 10:16pm

mloc123 wrote: »

Have not been over that way in a few weeks. Will check this weekend.

Checked today, they have a base layer down but nowhere near being finished for the end of March date they advertised.

Mercian Pro · 20-03-2019 10:39pm

Mercian Pro wrote: »

All the more reason for cyclists to make submissions supporting it. It doesn't take much in Ireland for politicians to oppose something once there's a hint of local opposition. Cyclists in Fingal should let their Councillors (and would-be Councillors) know that they support this and other investments in cycling when they come looking for votes later in the year.

Last day for submissions is Friday next, 22nd March. The Fingal website is at https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/royal-canal-urban-greenway-public-engagement

magicbastarder · 20-03-2019 10:48pm

from what i've heard from my folks, there's a lot of 'we like the idea but it should be the other side of the canal' sentiment.
which is stupid, the main benefit of having it on the 'non railway' side of the canal is accessibility. if you put it on the railway side, apart from the engineering issues with the slope of the land and the possible issues with the future electrification work on the railway line, you basically trap it between the canal and the rail line, so entering at castleknock station means you'd see the next exit at coolmine.

one of the main benefits of having it on the north side of the canal is that people will be able to use it in a far more casual manner.

tnegun · 20-03-2019 10:55pm

Can someone give me an idiots guide how to submit a submission supporting this?

KevRossi · 21-03-2019 12:31am

tnegun wrote: »

Can someone give me an idiots guide how to submit a submission supporting this?

You can have a read here, some interesting points of view developing. https://irishcycle.com/2019/03/19/public-urged-to-support-royal-canal-greenway-proposals-as-opposition-mounts-in-dublin-15/?fbclid=IwAR2FMIPAXDtmLJeAogX4_VIA6olbzsiQs8RuandISohSGPgIoMwhH-PcFnw

Then go to this portal https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/royal-canal-urban-greenway-public-engagement

Register here if not previously registered https://consult.fingal.ie/en/register_role

Finally Log in and write your piece here, it should take you to the section on the Canal Greenway https://consult.fingal.ie/en/user/login?destination=node/add/civiq-comments%3Fc%3D10458

You can write it in a Word doc or similar and copy and paste it in there if you wish, but make sure you register first.

Mercian Pro · 21-03-2019 10:48am

magicbastarder wrote: »

from what i've heard from my folks, there's a lot of 'we like the idea but it should be the other side of the canal' sentiment.
which is stupid, the main benefit of having it on the 'non railway' side of the canal is accessibility. if you put it on the railway side, apart from the engineering issues with the slope of the land and the possible issues with the future electrification work on the railway line, you basically trap it between the canal and the rail line, so entering at castleknock station means you'd see the next exit at coolmine.

one of the main benefits of having it on the north side of the canal is that people will be able to use it in a far more casual manner.

Good point mb. Looking at the maps, planning applications and satellite images, the residents on the south side of Delwood Park have extended their original gardens from 11m to 25m by encroaching on CIE/OPW public land over the years. The reason they didn't extend further down to the canal bank is the steep slope. The new route will either have to go on the sloped wooded section or the 22 residents may end up returning parts of their extended gardens to public use. Probably a good reason for launching a determined campaign against the plans!

magicbastarder · 21-03-2019 10:53am

i'm not 100% sure on this, but i think some of the people who have extended their gardens in the cul-de-sacs - the houses at the very end - have a 'garden lease' from the ESB (this is what was related to me, cannot verify the info is accurate) so if true, could not claim adverse possession.

Hurrache · 21-03-2019 11:23am

magicbastarder wrote: »

from what i've heard from my folks, there's a lot of 'we like the idea but it should be the other side of the canal' sentiment.
which is stupid, the main benefit of having it on the 'non railway' side of the canal is accessibility. if you put it on the railway side, apart from the engineering issues with the slope of the land and the possible issues with the future electrification work on the railway line, you basically trap it between the canal and the rail line, so entering at castleknock station means you'd see the next exit at coolmine.

one of the main benefits of having it on the north side of the canal is that people will be able to use it in a far more casual manner.

There's a big thread about it in the Dublin 15 forum, it's facing a fair bit of opposition.

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm not 100% sure on this, but i think some of the people who have extended their gardens in the cul-de-sacs - the houses at the very end - have a 'garden lease' from the ESB (this is what was related to me, cannot verify the info is accurate) so if true, could not claim adverse possession.

There's some claims that it was Waterways Ireland that gave them a 99 year lease.

Mercian Pro · 21-03-2019 3:33pm

Hurrache wrote: »

There's some claims that it was Waterways Ireland that gave them a 99 year lease.

Waterways Ireland wouldn't have existed when the gardens were extended. CIE and OPW were notorious for not challenging encroachment on disused railways and canal towpaths. I also heard a quote from a local that the Council had sold the land to the residents!

magicbastarder · 26-03-2019 9:27am

i know one or two people on boards commute from D15 into the city centre - just wondering what the reasons for not using what is usable on the canal to get to the city centre?
i haven't seen him in a couple of months, but i've a friend who lives near the carpenter and works in the IFSC, and cycles via the park and the quays; if the canal was cyclable all the way he'd be able to get to work with 90%+ of his route being on the canal. just wondering why someone in his position wouldn't currently hit the canal at the humpback bridge and head in from there?

munsterbear · 26-03-2019 9:58am

Maybe same reason plenty of cyclists prefer to chance the M50/M4 interchange with cars flying from one lane to another instead of using the cycle lane/bridge over M50 and then old Lucan Road which even bypasses two lights

Hurrache · 26-03-2019 11:47am

magicbastarder wrote: »

i know one or two people on boards commute from D15 into the city centre - just wondering what the reasons for not using what is usable on the canal to get to the city centre?

My issue is a matter of timing, when I did commute a lot of the work from Ashtown onwards hadn't been completed or even started, so for me it was better to do it via the park and then onto the Grand Canal via Kilmainham.

If I still had my old office I'd be taking the canal as far as possible into the IFSC, but coincidentally my new location is in the opposite direction on the canal in Kildare, so if I was to cycle there the canal would still be the ideal route.

buffalo · 26-03-2019 12:02pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i know one or two people on boards commute from D15 into the city centre - just wondering what the reasons for not using what is usable on the canal to get to the city centre?

I used to come in from D15 inside the M50. For me it was a matter of time - the canal is pleasant (and safe from motor vehicles), but not fast.

The commute was only 8km though, so even at the 20kph I'd do on the canal, it was less than 30mins cycling. Between kissing gates, blind corners and narrow paths on a shared facility, it was tough or stupid to go much faster than that a lot of the time.

If I was doing a 15km commute, I don't think I'd tolerate a 20kph restriction. Now it's 45min, whereas on the road I could probably do 30kph and keep the duration to 30min.

Everyone's trade-off of safety vs pleasantness vs time will be different of course.

Hurrache · 26-03-2019 12:05pm

I share buffalo's points re speed. My commute was a tad over 20km, and I would use it as a training session so I'd do it hard and fast where I could. So there's the trade off of speed. Having said that, once you get close to the city in the mornings there's no much opportunity for a bit of speed anymore anyway.

cjt156 · 28-03-2019 3:34pm

Important Update:

There are butterflies on the Canal Bank between Deey Bridge and Maynooth.

That is all.

Gerry · 28-03-2019 7:59pm

Eh?

cjt156 · 29-03-2019 9:43am

Need I repeat? I think I made it abundantly clear...

Effects · 29-03-2019 11:54am

cjt156 wrote: »

Need I repeat? I think I made it abundantly clear...

You didn't make yourself that clear. I'm sure they have flown away since you posted so nothing to worry about.

KevRossi · 30-03-2019 9:24pm

Did Ballynacarrigy to Maynooth today.

Excellent as far as Furey's Pub, working on the section from there to Kilmore Bridge still being worked on (1.75 KM).

Kilmore bridge to Blackwater Aqueduct is new and open, gravel/sand surface.

East of Enfield the drama begins.... There's a new sign saying 'Kilcock 10 Km' on the northside of the canal at Cloncurry Bridge, as well as a brand new, perfectly smooth surfaced road. After 2.5 Km, it abruptly stops here, no way of going forward, so you have to turn around and go back.

Ferran's Lock going east is closed, no warning about that on the main road, so from Enfield it's the N4 to Kilcock.

From Ferran's Lock, you can see work along this stretch here through the red gate that they have started. But there is nothing done from the other end.

According to the website both stretches will be finished in May June of this year.

https://www.waterwaysireland.org/royalcanalstatus

cdaly_ · 01-04-2019 10:57am

KevRossi wrote: »

East of Enfield the drama begins.... There's a new sign saying 'Kilcock 10 Km' on the northside of the canal at Cloncurry Bridge, as well as a brand new, perfectly smooth surfaced road. After 2.5 Km, it abruptly stops here, no way of going forward, so you have to turn around and go back.

Last time I rode that (last september) the towpath was on the south side of the canal from the last bridge all the way to Ferran's Lock.

Ferran's Lock going east is closed, no warning about that on the main road, so from Enfield it's the N4 to Kilcock.

From Ferran's Lock, you can see work along this stretch here through the red gate that they have started. But there is nothing done from the other end.

Then it goes north side of the canal at Ferran's Lock.

KevRossi · 02-04-2019 8:18pm

cdaly_ wrote: »

Last time I rode that (last september) the towpath was on the south side of the canal from the last bridge all the way to Ferran's Lock.

Then it goes north side of the canal at Ferran's Lock.

Towpath is still there and the old brown sign is up there as well on the south side.

This is definitely on the north side, I was surprised to see it too. I cycled the whole canal last year, there was no work done so I presumed it would be on the south where they own the land.

buffalo · 03-04-2019 3:03pm

This popped up on twitter earlier:

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vargoo · 03-04-2019 6:59pm

By end of June it should all be green, Dublin to Longford?

mloc123 · 03-04-2019 7:15pm

vargoo wrote: »

By end of June it should all be green, Dublin to Longford?

Not quite. From Leixlip (Confey) to Mullingar should be fully complete (maybe with 700m not completed at Intel/Carton)

magicbastarder · 03-04-2019 7:19pm

The work between castleknock and coolmine certainly won't have even started by June.

devonp · 03-04-2019 7:59pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

The work between castleknock and coolmine certainly won't have even started by June.

Ahhh leave it alone.... don't sanitise the Deep Sinking

Gerry · 03-04-2019 8:03pm

The route at the deep sinking seems to be planned for the other side of the canal. Would hope they'd leave it alone.

Royal Canal on a Road Bike

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