Journalism and cycling

endagibson · 29-12-2016 1:09pm

Deedsie wrote: »

they give us all a bad name.

So a chap cycling on a footpath in Dublin 2 gives a old woman returning home with her shopping in Sutton Cross a bad name. How does that work?

Chuchote · 29-12-2016 1:39pm

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

But you're doing the exact same thing yourself!

Nope

endagibson · 29-12-2016 3:04pm

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Keegan is a cyclist himself

So what?

It's an absolute giveaway that there's an attack on people who use bicycles coming. It's such a cliche that it's made it to the bicycle bingo card.

If he really didn't mean it, then he needs PR lessons. This is the sentence that he should have started with:

"The lack of mutual respect among all road users is a problem."

Or maybe he just doesn't realise that he's made his own commute more dangerous through his own words.

Chips Lovell · 29-12-2016 3:10pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

When someone is speaking in their official capacity in a public role, it is not unreasonable to expect them to be balanced. So something like "it bugs me when I see cyclists scooting through traffic lights, though I understand that they don't kill people" or similar would have been great.

I don't think it's in any way an unreasonable thing to say in his official capacity. He probably would have also gotten grief if he said he didn't have a problem with law breaking cyclists.

Chuchote wrote: »

Nope

Fair enough. I tried.

endagibson · 29-12-2016 3:23pm

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I don't think it's in any way an unreasonable thing to say in his official capacity. He probably would have also gotten grief if he said he didn't have a problem with law breaking cyclists.

He could try not speaking about it since it is irrelevant to the topic of the article which is congestion in Dublin and the plan for dealing with it. Is it any wonder that the general public can't separate the thought of people using bicycles from RLJers when "friends" like this exist.

If Mr Keegan has such a taste for self flagellation, I suggest that he do it at home.

AndrewJRenko · 29-12-2016 3:46pm

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

When someone is speaking in their official capacity in a public role, it is not unreasonable to expect them to be balanced. So something like "it bugs me when I see cyclists scooting through traffic lights, though I understand that they don't kill people" or similar would have been great.

I don't think it's in any way an unreasonable thing to say in his official capacity. He probably would have also gotten grief if he said he didn't have a problem with law breaking cyclists.

He had many more middle-ground options, other than what he said or the words you're suggesting.

Chips Lovell · 29-12-2016 3:49pm

We'll have to agree to disagree.

endagibson · 29-12-2016 4:08pm

A road rage attacker has been ordered to pay £10,000 compensation to a cyclist he pushed off his bike, fracturing his shoulder and leg.
Michael Gibbins saw red when the cyclist, who was in front of him, went into the middle of the carriageway to cross a narrow bridge in a country lane.
Frustrated Gibbins (52), a self-employed driver, then drove his Mercedes "intimidatingly close" to the cyclist, who was proceeding in a proper manner and had returned to the left side of the road.
Tony Stanford, prosecuting, told Leicester Crown Court: "The defendant lowered the passenger window and shouted something, with animated waving of his hands.
"He pulled up ahead of the cyclist and opened his door as he was passing. A witness said it looked as though the driver was deliberately trying to knock the cyclist over as he passed.
"The defendant then accelerated away and stopped further down the road.
"He got out of his vehicle and ran at the cyclist and either shoulder-barged or pushed him, knocking him off his bike, causing him to fall heavily on the floor."
The defendant stood over him and said he should not have been "mouthing off".

Oh dear. What happened next?

The victim, who was physically fit and active and had 40 years of experience as a cyclist and a keen runner, suffered a fracture of his right shoulder and a broken upper leg, near his hip, which needed an operation.
He was in hospital for more than three weeks and off work for two months.
He is no longer able to pursue his sporting activities, such as cycling 1,200 kilometres a year, and now walks with a limp, because the injured leg has been left shorter than it was.
Mr Stanford said: "It caused him extreme pain for many weeks and he is still undergoing physiotherapy.
"It's going to have long term consequences."

And what about the chap driving the car?

Leicester, admitted inflicting grievous bodily harm, on the afternoon of Sunday, May 8.
He was given a 16 month jail sentence, suspended for two years, with 210 hours of unpaid work.
He was ordered to pay £10,000 to his victim within 12 months, as well as £250 court costs.

Any explanation as to why he did it?

"He's a cyclist himself and that's why he felt able to remonstrate with the cyclist."

Ah. That's all right then. :rolleyes:

Taken from here. HT to @beztweets.

Chuchote · 02-01-2017 4:38pm

Already a thread about this, but the phrasing of the report is interesting:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/government-minister-hospitalised-after-being-hit-by-car-while-cycling-35335733.html

A Government minister is being treated in hospital after being struck by a car while cycling.
Communications Minister Denis Naughten was cycling along side his wife Mary just outside Roscommon town today when he was hit from behind.

Chuchote · 03-01-2017 8:02am

Interview with Transport Minister Shane Ross, about everything except transport

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/daniel-mcconnell/shane-ross-interview-we-needed-to-flex-our-muscles-437422.html

magicbastarder · 03-01-2017 11:46am

i see he's finally taking the bus:
https://twitter.com/Shane_RossTD/status/816220654198407168

https://twitter.com/Shane_RossTD/status/816224443731243008

tomasrojo · 03-01-2017 11:58am

Chuchote wrote: »

Interview with Transport Minister Shane Ross, about everything except transport

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/daniel-mcconnell/shane-ross-interview-we-needed-to-flex-our-muscles-437422.html

“I have never seen any justification or evidence for it,” he says. “They usually say: ‘He is not doing his job.’ Mainly it is because I am involved in other portfolios.

That's ok then. As long as you're interfering in someone else's work while you're not doing your own.

ThisRegard · 03-01-2017 12:55pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i see he's finally taking the bus:
https://twitter.com/Shane_RossTD/status/816220654198407168

https://twitter.com/Shane_RossTD/status/816224443731243008

Off to work around 10am? Well for some, no wonder the bus flew in and was almost empty, let's see how he gets on during the morning rush hour on a wet day, like the rest of the proles.

AndrewJRenko · 03-01-2017 1:44pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i see he's finally taking the bus:
https://twitter.com/Shane_RossTD/status/816220654198407168

https://twitter.com/Shane_RossTD/status/816224443731243008

Remind you of anyone?

https://twitter.com/leedalyire/status/816244403006279680

tomasrojo · 04-01-2017 11:52am

That tweet may be the most transport-related work he's done since he took office last summer.

Carawaystick · 05-01-2017 10:54pm

Chuchote wrote: »

Already a thread about this, but the phrasing of the report is interesting:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/government-minister-hospitalised-after-being-hit-by-car-while-cycling-35335733.html

I wonder if this will give rise to any shake up of cycling safety? Theres 3 reasonably senior fg's who cycle, (Enda & Ciaran Cannon) that I know of

Chuchote · 06-01-2017 6:41am

Not directly cycling-related except that we share the roads with these people, but The Irish Times's lead today is chilling:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/almost-8-000-multiple-ban-drivers-still-behind-wheel-rsa-1.2926993

There are almost 8,000 drivers on Ireland’s roads who have multiple concurrent disqualifications on their licences but continue to flout the law by driving…

The RSA’s research analysis revealing the extent of the problem threw up some startling figures. At the end of 2015, there were on record a total of 41,713 disqualifications applied to 22,674 drivers, suggesting a high level of non-compliance and multiple bans.
The research, which was based on a survey of the National Vehicle and Driver File, a database of the State’s 2.6 million drivers and 2.5 million vehicles, and the RSA’s own administration of driver licences, found that banned drivers are responsible for killing between 11 and 14 other people every year.
Every month, of the 150 summonses, on average, issued by the Garda to drivers without a licence, 30 per cent are to drivers who are already banned…In the 18 months after January 1st, 2015, 700 professional drivers were banned, but more than 100 of them also received fixed-penalty notices, indicating that they continued to drive despite their disqualification.

Chuchote · 06-01-2017 6:49am

Also a sensible letter in The Irish Times today:

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/breaking-the-law-while-driving-1.2926810

The solution to drivers who are either over the alcohol limit, using their mobile phones while driving or driving without insurance? Confiscate their licences and then confiscate their cars.

magicbastarder · 06-01-2017 10:02am

Chuchote wrote: »

Not directly cycling-related except that we share the roads with these people, but The Irish Times's lead today is chilling:

i read recently that the garda traffic corps is operating at just over half the headcount they had at the peak. couple this this a lack of any decent technology (whose fault that is is left for another debate) and it's not surprising that people flout the law.

sure they don't even use technology like registered post to send out speeding fines summonses.

Pinch Flat · 06-01-2017 10:35am

Chuchote wrote: »

Also a sensible letter in The Irish Times today:

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/breaking-the-law-while-driving-1.2926810

I'd say confiscate their cars first - cut out the risk at source. Driving without a licence means nothing and the chances of being caught are fairly slim.

endagibson · 06-01-2017 10:40am

magicbastarder wrote: »

i read recently that the garda traffic corps is operating at just over half the headcount they had at the peak. couple this this a lack of any decent technology (whose fault that is is left for another debate) and it's not surprising that people flout the law.

sure they don't even use technology like registered post to send out speeding fines summonses.

If we know who they are and where they live, could regular Gardai not call out to their houses and drive their car to the nearest scrapyard?

Job done, no?

magicbastarder · 06-01-2017 10:46am

actually, i think it was that the failure to pay fine notification was not sent out by registered post, rather than the summons.

in longford recently, something like 15 of 17 people showed up in court and swore blind they did not receive the letter and the judge had no option to take their word for it, while muttering about a stink of perjury in the courtroom.

Chuchote · 06-01-2017 10:56am

They wouldn't have to confiscate the car permanently, just to impound it until the end of the ban. In fact, it would cut to the chase (as it were, umm) if any ban resulted in the car in question being impounded.

tomasrojo · 06-01-2017 11:38am

I imagine impounding hundreds or thousands of cars for months or even years is pretty pricey. Not that it shouldn't be done; I'm just not sure the authorities are prepared to pay for it.

magicbastarder · 06-01-2017 11:42am

i've been saying for years that earning three penalty points should result in the car being impounded for three days, and the fine dropped. much more effective and equal than the current solution.

one objection i have heard to this is 'what if the person driving the car wasn't the owner?' - well, tough, don't lend your car to someone you can't trust.

Weepsie · 06-01-2017 12:50pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

actually, i think it was that the failure to pay fine notification was not sent out by registered post, rather than the summons.

in longford recently, something like 15 of 17 people showed up in court and swore blind they did not receive the letter and the judge had no option to take their word for it, while muttering about a stink of perjury in the courtroom.

That doesn't wash with utilities companies so it shouldn't in a court. If they claim it, the judge should then be allowed to say you are now being informed of your offence, fine and penalty points and they should have 1 month to pay the original + an extra fee.

magicbastarder · 06-01-2017 1:19pm

i got it wrong; it wasn't longford:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/judge-says-courtroom-stinking-of-perjury-after-drivers-walk-away-1.2909249

CramCycle · 06-01-2017 1:21pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i got it wrong; it wasn't longford:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/judge-says-courtroom-stinking-of-perjury-after-drivers-walk-away-1.2909249

Bad judges are not just from Longford, but you are right. He could easily have just got them all to raise their hands asking is that what happened to you. They all say yes and he just says, here is a months notice now. Job done.

magicbastarder · 06-01-2017 1:26pm

that's only if the law allows that. IANAL, etc. etc.

endagibson · 06-01-2017 1:34pm

It's not just the law I expect, but the payment method. The original fine mechanism won't work once the 40 days or whatever initially allowed has passed. There would need to be a way for the court to reactivate it.

CramCycle · 06-01-2017 1:43pm

endagibson wrote: »

It's not just the law I expect, but the payment method. The original fine mechanism won't work once the 40 days or whatever initially allowed has passed. There would need to be a way for the court to reactivate it.

Throw the original fine out, ask them to plead on the offence, and then fine them in court?

Weepsie · 06-01-2017 1:50pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

that's only if the law allows that. IANAL, etc. etc.

It mustnt allow it, otherwise I imagine it's what would happen and judges don't like their time being wasted.

If only there where people who could change the law.

magicbastarder · 06-01-2017 2:39pm

the stupid thing is that this doesn't even need a change in the law. all it needs is the notice to be sent out in registered post.

buffalo · 06-01-2017 3:05pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i got it wrong; it wasn't longford:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/judge-says-courtroom-stinking-of-perjury-after-drivers-walk-away-1.2909249

And it's not a problem that's going away:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/judge-reluctantly-dismisses-majority-of-42-speeding-cases-1.2927721

Some 42 prosecutions before Killarney District Court for speeding offences detected by speed camera vans resulted in just eight convictions. ...others were dismissed because the drivers swore they never got the notices - which are sent by ordinary post - and only discovered they had been detected for speeding when the summonses arrived by registered post.

average_runner · 06-01-2017 3:46pm

Gardai chasing these things up is a waste of resources. There is bigger issues that the gardai need to focus on at the moment.

Maybe allow a third party do it.

magicbastarder · 06-01-2017 4:01pm

why would that be cheaper?
surely the third party would run into the same issues if they didn't use registered post too?

endagibson · 06-01-2017 4:07pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

why would that be cheaper?
surely the third party would run into the same issues if they didn't use registered post too?

Are these notices not already being sent by a third party? In which case, they just need to start using registered post.

Chuchote · 06-01-2017 4:50pm

Wouldn't the simplest thing be to have a card licence that had to be displayed in the front windscreen, and when this was scanned by any toll camera, banned drivers would be flagged up automatically?

magicbastarder · 06-01-2017 4:53pm

one problem would be making them visible from a camera that operates at a toll, as these can deal with car reg plates travelling at speed, but driving licences would be too small to read.
plus, it's probably questionable co-opting non-police resources like that, let alone what to do with the info.

ThisRegard · 06-01-2017 4:59pm

Chuchote wrote: »

Wouldn't the simplest thing be to have a card licence that had to be displayed in the front windscreen, and when this was scanned by any toll camera, banned drivers would be flagged up automatically?

I think you're too trusting of such people to believe that they'll leave their own licence up if they were to drive under such a scheme.

Chuchote · 06-01-2017 5:02pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

I think you're too trusting of such people to believe that they'll leave their own licence up if they were to drive under such a scheme.

Crooks gotta crook, but surely a stonking penalty for driving with a false licence, or allowing your licence to be so used…

magicbastarder · 06-01-2017 11:03pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Bad judges are not just from Longford, but you are right. He could easily have just got them all to raise their hands asking is that what happened to you. They all say yes and he just says, here is a months notice now. Job done.

well, the same judge seems to have had enough:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/nothing-as-appalling-as-a-liar-driver-committed-perjury-judge-1.2928295

tomasrojo · 06-01-2017 11:53pm

Trump makes it look easy, but brazen lying is quite a skill (or a gift of temperament), and Mr. Sutton hasn't acquired it yet.

Mr Sutton said he did not receive a notice for tax either.

Judge Durcan intervened to remind him he was under oath, and that not telling the truth would be committing perjury. He said: “Do you want to reconsider the replies you have already given.”

Mr Sutton said: “I was mistaken about the tax. I remember paying the tax.”

Chuchote · 11-01-2017 5:47pm

Broadsheet.ie (dunno if that counts as 'journalism') on the council meeting discussing how cyclists are outnumbering drivers on Ellis Quay:

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/01/11/cyclists-outnumber-motorists-1269-to-1131/#comments

Cllr Christy Burke (independent) said the overall plan was a “great proposal”, but only after he outlined how he is opposed to many practical elements of the plan. He said he was against the removal of car parking spaces along the quays, and he was against both the reallocation a traffic lane and removal of trees at Bachelors Walk.

(snip)

Cllr Burke also asked how many car parking spaces would be lost and how would the council be “compensating the motorists” and the “city’s coffers”.

While lightly banging his hand off the table, Cllr Burke said: “A lot of money is going into cycle routes… but cyclists must learn to obey and respect the rules of the road… they must wear their high-vis, they must have front and rear lights…” and stop at red lights.

Hilaire!

buffalo · 11-01-2017 6:03pm

Chuchote wrote: »

Broadsheet.ie (dunno if that counts as 'journalism') on the council meeting discussing how cyclists are outnumbering drivers on Ellis Quay:

Hilaire!

You can go straight to the source: http://irishcycle.com/2017/01/11/cars-off-quays-proposal-for-liffey-cycle-route-not-arrived-at-lightly/

magicbastarder · 11-01-2017 6:13pm

christy burke is a stone cold madman.

Rokta · 11-01-2017 9:21pm

What is the fetish with High Viz clothing in this country?

The are useless and will never be as good as a decent set of lights. Every night I see cyclists with no lights but wearing this useless neon jackets/vests? I used to own one of this jackets myself and even in bright day light random white vans, buses and cars tried to kill me at least once a week in a roundabout.

endagibson · 11-01-2017 10:00pm

Rokta wrote: »

What is the fetish with High Viz clothing in this country?

It's the defacto uniform for going outside in Ireland these days. No matter the age, location or activity.

ThisRegard · 11-01-2017 10:43pm

In fairness they have their use, they're just not the invincibility cloak that repels cars that some believe.

Chuchote · 11-01-2017 10:44pm

I'm expecting the national flag to be changed for fluorescent green, reflective white and fluorescent orange any day now.

Journalism and cycling

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