Off Topic Thread 4.0

Neil3030 · 19-06-2019 12:18am

errlloyd wrote: »

Or Platini is playing both sides. Collected his Qatar Money to get France the bid, and collecting his France money to take it away. Genius.

How is that man not in Fianna Fail.

joseywhales · 19-06-2019 6:25pm

****e, Rory Stewart was the best politician I've seen in a while, actually enjoyed his reasoning, maybe he'll be back.

Buer · 19-06-2019 7:44pm

joseywhales wrote:

****e, Rory Stewart was the best politician I've seen in a while, actually enjoyed his reasoning, maybe he'll be back.

I thought he was able to benefit from offering an alternative opinion but he actually had very little to back it up. He had the right idea but no clue how to implement it.

Last night he was atrocious. It's mildly incredible that he could go from 37 votes to 27 despite there being an additional 30 up for grabs after Raab's elimination. That's nuts and just how badly his performance played with the members last night.

BJ won 50% of the vote this evening. It's a done deal. Even with the others clubbing together, they can't beat him. He hasn't had to do a thing to win. He just about managed to get out of his own way last night and that will suffice.

awec · 19-06-2019 8:41pm

no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics no politics

Seriously. No. Politics. How many times do we have to make this point?

Buer · 19-06-2019 8:48pm

Come again?

molloyjh · 19-06-2019 10:55pm

Yeah, that was a little vague. Could you repeat that, but clearer?

19-06-2019 11:04pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah, that was a little vague. Could you repeat that, but clearer?

I think he wants to discuss politics but forgot the comma and the question-mark.

Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no? Politics, no?

Synode · 19-06-2019 11:58pm

No! Politics....

thomond2006 · 20-06-2019 12:15am

Just ban Buer. Sorted.

sydthebeat · 20-06-2019 12:30am

Trump...

Herumppphhh

Buer · 20-06-2019 9:10am

Massive article giving a full rundown of the Kriegel case:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kriegel-murder-trial-the-complete-story-1.3929570

It is, without doubt, the most disturbing and affecting case in Ireland that I can recall in my life. Other murder trials have been more salacious and media friendly but the sheer heartbreak and tragedy of this trial trumps them all.

The article goes into fine detail on the investigation; massive credit to how delicately and carefully AGS handled it to bring it forward for trial. I do have some questions around the conviction of Boy B though. It appears unlikely that AGS could have charged him with anything let alone get a conviction without his own interviews. There's nothing to physically link him to the act of murdering Ana Kriegel. His ever changing story though and eventual admission he was in the house when they attack commenced before fleeing gave AGS enough to go forward, it appears combined with the fact that he was the one who brought Ana there from her house and he claimed a conversation previously took place where Boy A raised the idea of killing Ana.

It's a pretty horrendous scenario but I still feel there's not enough (from what I've read there) to convict Boy B of murder but he certainly aided/facilitated the act I believe. I'd be surprised if he didn't appeal this.

Didn't take long for the names and photos of the two boys to start appearing online either. I believe a poster on this site posted the photo of them on Boards too.

troyzer · 20-06-2019 9:18am

Buer wrote: »

Massive article giving a full rundown of the Kriegel case:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kriegel-murder-trial-the-complete-story-1.3929570

It is, without doubt, the most disturbing and affecting case in Ireland that I can recall in my life. Other murder trials have been more salacious and media friendly but the sheer heartbreak and tragedy of this trial trumps them all.

The article goes into fine detail on the investigation; massive credit to how delicately and carefully AGS handled it to bring it forward for trial. I do have some questions around the conviction of Boy B though. It appears unlikely that AGS could have charged him with anything let alone get a conviction without his own interviews. There's nothing to physically link him to the act of murdering Ana Kriegel. His ever changing story though and eventual admission he was in the house when they attack commenced before fleeing gave AGS enough to go forward, it appears combined with the fact that he was the one who brought Ana there from her house and he claimed a conversation previously took place where Boy A raised the idea of killing Ana.

It's a pretty horrendous scenario but I still feel there's not enough (from what I've read there) to convict Boy B of murder but he certainly aided/facilitated the act I believe. I'd be surprised if he didn't appeal this.

Didn't take long for the names and photos of the two boys to start appearing online either. I believe a poster on this site posted the photo of them on Boards too.

I was surprised Boy B was convicted. Even more surprised that his legal representation allowed him to keep answering questions.

Still. By his own admission he was asked by Boy A if he wanted to kill Ana, then he led her to the house to meet Boy A and watched her be murdered. These are things he said.

His only defense was that Boy A was joking when he said he wanted to kill her, that he didn't know he was going to kill her when being led to a weird abandoned house despite having no relationship with Ana and then ran away when she was being murdered.

If he had kept his mouth shut in interviews it would have been super suspicious but he would have gotten away with it.

thomond2006 · 20-06-2019 9:33am

Revealing their identities achieves nothing positive, I'm surprised there's even a debate around that. It would expose relatives to potential danger.

stephen_n · 20-06-2019 9:36am

Buer wrote: »

Didn't take long for the names and photos of the two boys to start appearing online either. I believe a poster on this site posted the photo of them on Boards too.

This in particular is infuriating, people thinking they are damaging them, when in fact they’re probably going to help any appeals process. The judge was quick enough to get out ahead of it with the bans on Facebook and Twitter, but it still wasn’t enough.

Buer · 20-06-2019 10:04am

stephen_n wrote: »

This in particular is infuriating, people thinking they are damaging them, when in fact they’re probably going to help any appeals process. The judge was quick enough to get out ahead of it with the bans on Facebook and Twitter, but it still wasn’t enough.

I believe Red FM were interviewing a journalist from Dublin Live yesterday who was in the court room during the trial. The journalist was talking about Boy B and accidentally dropped Boy A's name whilst talking. Absolute clanger. From reading an online description, you could hear the journalist was immediatley shaken as he realised what he had just done.

For the record though, the names were never, ever going to stay secret in this day and age. The entire area of Leixlip were completely aware of who the lads were going back to the original arrests.

Mr Tickle · 20-06-2019 10:19am

Buer wrote: »

I believe Red FM were interviewing a journalist from Dublin Live yesterday who was in the court room during the trial. The journalist was talking about Boy B and accidentally dropped Boy A's name whilst talking. Absolute clanger. From reading an online description, you could hear the journalist was immediatley shaken as he realised what he had just done.

For the record though, the names were never, ever going to stay secret in this day and age. The entire area of Leixlip were completely aware of who the lads were going back to the original arrests.

Yeah that was on in the office here. He said it twice fairly quickly before anyone copped what had happened and they shut down the interview.

stephen_n · 20-06-2019 10:43am

Buer wrote: »

I believe Red FM were interviewing a journalist from Dublin Live yesterday who was in the court room during the trial. The journalist was talking about Boy B and accidentally dropped Boy A's name whilst talking. Absolute clanger. From reading an online description, you could hear the journalist was immediatley shaken as he realised what he had just done.

For the record though, the names were never, ever going to stay secret in this day and age. The entire area of Leixlip were completely aware of who the lads were going back to the original arrests.

Yeah I know that it was inevitable, but the people sharing it should really check their motivations. I really don’t believe these two, certainly not boy A, deserve the protection of anonymity. It’s just as thomond says, there’s no good that will come from sharing that information.

On your initial post regarding Boy B, he probably shouldn’t be charged with murder but he was definitely an accessory, just we don’t seem to have a charge for that. He was definitely instrumental in the murder, even if he didn’t physically carry it out.

Squidgy Black · 20-06-2019 11:00am

stephen_n wrote: »

Yeah I know that it was inevitable, but the people sharing it should really check their motivations. I really don’t believe these two, certainly not boy A, deserve the protection of anonymity. It’s just as thomond says, there’s no good that will come from sharing that information.

On your initial post regarding Boy B, he probably shouldn’t be charged with murder but he was definitely an accessory, just we don’t seem to have a charge for that. He was definitely instrumental in the murder, even if he didn’t physically carry it out.

The Bulger case should really be evidence enough of exactly why you don't release the information of young offenders. If anything, sharing their information means they're likely going to get a completely fresh start under a new identity due to the media exposure. Which means little accountability on release for them and everything sealed.

Synode · 20-06-2019 1:48pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

The Bulger case should really be evidence enough of exactly why you don't release the information of young offenders. If anything, sharing their information means they're likely going to get a completely fresh start under a new identity due to the media exposure. Which means little accountability on release for them and everything sealed.

I'd guess fresh starts with new identities was always going to be the case, whether publicly identified or not. There's a lot of people know exactly who they are

stephen_n · 20-06-2019 7:38pm

This is Ireland, how far is a new identity going to get you? They will probably have to leave the country anyway when they get out. This stuff just lands on their families.

joseywhales · 21-06-2019 1:02am

I always find it funny that same personalities that would have bullied a girl like the victim are the ones most likely to lead vigilantism apparently in her cause. Mob mentality disgusts me. Also boy b's solicitor must be the worst solicitor in the country, say nothing for 48 hours has to be your default when you are questioned. I don't believe he thought it would end in murder simply because I can barely believe it ended in murder. They were thirteen, it's mind boggling that a thirteen year old could kill in what likely took minutes and involved a struggle.

Neil3030 · 21-06-2019 2:47am

joseywhales wrote: »

I always find it funny that same personalities that would have bullied a girl like the victim are the ones most likely to lead vigilantism apparently in her cause. Mob mentality disgusts me. Also boy b's solicitor must be the worst solicitor in the country, say nothing for 48 hours has to be your default when you are questioned. I don't believe he thought it would end in murder simply because I can barely believe it ended in murder. They were thirteen, it's mind boggling that a thirteen year old could kill in what likely took minutes and involved a struggle.

This is a fantastic point. The callous, cowardly practice of mob bullying actively contributed to that poor girl's death. And it's a hell of a lot easier to retweet a name or photo, and feel like a hero, than it is to reach out to someone who might be shunned by their peer group, or talk to kids about doing the same, and actually make a difference.

Dave_The_Sheep · 21-06-2019 2:33pm

Happened across this article somewhere and remembered it was discussed here at the time last year, but the (former) resource officer who stayed outside during the time of the Parkland shooting in the school in Florida in February 2018 has been arrested on criminal charges, mainly of child neglect. This is the guy branded the "Coward of Broward" and shamed by his boss and Trump at the time.

Without having read too much into what has happened since that day, I can't help but feel this is a bit messed up. His attorney's description of this as "a thinly veiled attempt at politically motivated retribution against Mr. Peterson" isn't a million miles away from the mark.

Former Former · 21-06-2019 2:50pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

seriously???

have you not seen the absolute cliff-fall decline in church going?
have you not seen the over whelming ass kicking those conservative views have gotten in recent referendums?

there is a serious ground swell, in this country at least, against those conservative views... especially among the older age group that would be considered most conservative.

the church in its current guise is dying a death here in ireland

You omitted the next line of my question which was:

How many posters who are attacking Folau got married in a Catholic church? How many had their kids baptised? How many let their kids learn religion in school?

I'm sure like most people, I went to a massive spate of weddings in my late 20s to mid 30s. The only non-Church wedding I went to was my own. My son is, like 90%+ of kids, in a Catholic primary school. Out of 30 kids in his class, only two don't "learn" religion; my son and a Hindu.

If I asked most of my friends why they got married in a church, why they baptised their kids, why they don't excuse them from religion class, I'd get a range of answers from a bored shrug to "I didn't want to upset my mam" to "the communion will be a nice day out". None of them would say "because of my strong faith in Jesus".

However, by continuing to prop up the church, we're all complicit in keeping intolerance alive. Kudos! I'm genuinely surprised by the number of posters who think that all this stuff isn't part of church teachings any more but it absolutely is.

The mad thing is that, for all the people piling into me about Folau, no-one would be happier if the cushy protection that religion gets was removed in the morning.

As for overwhelming ass-kicking, I dunno. 62-38 was a nice margin for gay marriage but 38% is still a good chunk of people. It was a similar margin in Australia IIRC so Folau isn't that out of step with society. Still don't believe me? Head to Belfast and ask how you go about marrying your gay partner.

The church might be dying a death but we're all doing our best impression of Weekend at Bernie's to keep it going.

Eod100 · 21-06-2019 4:00pm

Think this is going off specific subject. How many people actually have a choice in schools they send their kids to? Not like there's a lot of Educate Together schools and most secondary school have some religious ethos. It's a bit of a catch 22 with having to baptise their kids if they want them to attend the local school. There was always a degree of inconsistency with people attending Mass and the Church's views on divorce, abortion and same sex marriage and this is widening. But like I said think it's going off on a fairly big tangent

zambrotta11 · 21-06-2019 4:09pm

Former Former wrote: »

You omitted the next line of my question which was:

I'm sure like most people, I went to a massive spate of weddings in my late 20s to mid 30s. The only non-Church wedding I went to was my own. My son is, like 90%+ of kids, in a Catholic primary school. Out of 30 kids in his class, only two don't "learn" religion; my son and a Hindu.

If I asked most of my friends why they got married in a church, why they baptised their kids, why they don't excuse them from religion class, I'd get a range of answers from a bored shrug to "I didn't want to upset my mam" to "the communion will be a nice day out". None of them would say "because of my strong faith in Jesus".

However, by continuing to prop up the church, we're all complicit in keeping intolerance alive. Kudos! I'm genuinely surprised by the number of posters who think that all this stuff isn't part of church teachings any more but it absolutely is.

The mad thing is that, for all the people piling into me about Folau, no-one would be happier if the cushy protection that religion gets was removed in the morning.

As for overwhelming ass-kicking, I dunno. 62-38 was a nice margin for gay marriage but 38% is still a good chunk of people. It was a similar margin in Australia IIRC so Folau isn't that out of step with society. Still don't believe me? Head to Belfast and ask how you go about marrying your gay partner.

The church might be dying a death but we're all doing our best impression of Weekend at Bernie's to keep it going.

At least half of people in the north have no problem with gay marriage and the majority in Stormont voted for it to be legalised in 2015 only for the DUP to block the motion.

You can't take the view of the DUP as the view for everyone.

sydthebeat · 21-06-2019 4:54pm

Former Former wrote: »

You omitted the next line of my question which was:

I'm sure like most people, I went to a massive spate of weddings in my late 20s to mid 30s. The only non-Church wedding I went to was my own. My son is, like 90%+ of kids, in a Catholic primary school. Out of 30 kids in his class, only two don't "learn" religion; my son and a Hindu.

If I asked most of my friends why they got married in a church, why they baptised their kids, why they don't excuse them from religion class, I'd get a range of answers from a bored shrug to "I didn't want to upset my mam" to "the communion will be a nice day out". None of them would say "because of my strong faith in Jesus".

However, by continuing to prop up the church, we're all complicit in keeping intolerance alive. Kudos! I'm genuinely surprised by the number of posters who think that all this stuff isn't part of church teachings any more but it absolutely is.

The mad thing is that, for all the people piling into me about Folau, no-one would be happier if the cushy protection that religion gets was removed in the morning.

As for overwhelming ass-kicking, I dunno. 62-38 was a nice margin for gay marriage but 38% is still a good chunk of people. It was a similar margin in Australia IIRC so Folau isn't that out of step with society. Still don't believe me? Head to Belfast and ask how you go about marrying your gay partner.

The church might be dying a death but we're all doing our best impression of Weekend at Bernie's to keep it going.

i honestly dont see any of the above as being a defense of folau and a argument against how he is being treated.

You referred in an email post to

If you think Folau is an absolute c*nt, remember to look in the mirror, or (depending on your age) tell your parents and grandparents that they're c*nts too.

well im sorry but that is complete hogwash.
the bible and the christian church is absolutely full of contradictions, inaccuracies and downright stupidity.

are you saying you either have to accept EVERY aspect of EVERY tenet of the religion in order to be considered christian, or catholic??? thats absolute rubbish. Of course it is reasonable that you can accept certain aspects and disregard others... thats actually the very basis of the religion...

even folau in his fundamentism falls down on loads of aspects in how he lives.

when is the last time that a priest castigated you for wearing clothes made of two materials (Leviticus 19:19) or for trimming your beard (Leviticus 19:27)

there are many many aspects of the religion that the actual mainstays of the religions conveniently choose to ignore..... so dont think that just because a lay person ignores others aspects, that in some way invalidates their right to call themselves catholic.

Folau and his fundamentalist head bangers "choose" to take these tenets of the religion and preach them with vitriol..... so he shouldnt be surprised when he meets significant and proportionate counter actions to this hate speech.. such as not being allowed to work for or represent the ARU.

Neil3030 · 21-06-2019 5:05pm

The current Pope wrote:

If someone is gay and is searching for the Lord and has good will, then who am I to judge him? The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this in a beautiful way, saying…: 'no one should marginalize these people for this, they must be integrated into society.

The current Pope wrote:

When a person (who is gay) arrives before Jesus, Jesus certainly will not say, 'Go away because you are homosexual.

The current Pope wrote:

You know, that does not matter. God made you like this. God loves you like this. The Pope loves you like this and you should love yourself and not worry about what people say.

Israel Folau wrote:

Warning: Drunks. Homosexuals. Adulterers. Liars. Fornicators. Thieves. Atheists. Idolaters. Hell awaits you.

You actually have to admire the kind of talent it takes to make the RCC seem like the good guys.

joseywhales · 21-06-2019 8:06pm

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Happened across this article somewhere and remembered it was discussed here at the time last year, but the (former) resource officer who stayed outside during the time of the Parkland shooting in the school in Florida in February 2018 has been arrested on criminal charges, mainly of child neglect. This is the guy branded the "Coward of Broward" and shamed by his boss and Trump at the time.

Without having read too much into what has happened since that day, I can't help but feel this is a bit messed up. His attorney's description of this as "a thinly veiled attempt at politically motivated retribution against Mr. Peterson" isn't a million miles away from the mark.

Yeah this was remarkable, that the fat rich dude who skipped the draft, never worked a minimum wage job even or played a competitive impact sport would have entered a building with an unknown number of gunmen on his own and engaged any would be attackers. Do you think he could jog 100 metres?

Surely you would always wait for backup in that scenario anyway.

Dave_The_Sheep · 21-06-2019 8:19pm

joseywhales wrote: »

Surely you would always wait for backup in that scenario anyway.

Apparently, part of the criticism (to put it mildly) he's copped is that when (local) backup arrived he ordered them to stay outside. It was only when another police organisation arrived and said **** that and went in that things were brought to a head, seemingly.

thomond2006 · 22-06-2019 8:39pm

Cracker of a Munster final, Cork were incredibly wasteful and ill-disciplined and left that behind them. They left a good number of points go astray by glory hunting for goals.

22-06-2019 8:43pm

joseywhales wrote: »

Yeah this was remarkable, that the fat rich dude who skipped the draft, never worked a minimum wage job even or played a competitive impact sport would have entered a building with an unknown number of gunmen on his own and engaged any would be attackers. Do you think he could jog 100 metres?

Surely you would always wait for backup in that scenario anyway.

Any American law maker not taking personal responsibility for their serious gun problem is either incredibly dim or more likely abusively greedy and incapable of doing the right thing.

The richest country in the world shouldn't have this problem. The mental hurdles they go through to justify it really highlights what money can buy. An entire platform of misinformation manages to keep any kind of gun control off the table despite the fact that everyone would genuinely benefit from it.

America is a write off at this stage. It will be the Rome of our times.

Stheno · 22-06-2019 9:49pm

On the subject of beer (And not politics:pac:) two of my locals in deepest North coubty Dublin sell Birra Moretti

Zzippy · 22-06-2019 10:29pm

Stheno wrote: »

On the subject of beer (And not politics:pac:) two of my locals in deepest North coubty Dublin sell Birra Moretti

Swords has always been a cosmopolitan place. We even had Moosehead beer when I worked in the Cock Tavern back in the 90s. AND we used freshly whipped cream for Irish coffees!

Stheno · 22-06-2019 10:42pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Swords has always been a cosmopolitan place. We even had Moosehead beer when I worked in the Cock Tavern back in the 90s. AND we used freshly whipped cream for Irish coffees!

You worked in the Cock? Upstairs there is my favourite place to watch rugby after the Forty Four.

Staff are fantastic and the food is good!

Buer · 22-06-2019 10:46pm

Stheno wrote: »

You worked in the Cock?

Don't do it, Venjur.

The ban isn't worth it.

22-06-2019 10:51pm

Buer wrote: »

Don't do it, Venjur.

The ban isn't worth it.

Upstairs in Zzippy's cock is a great place to watch a game.

Stheno · 22-06-2019 10:52pm

Buer wrote: »

Don't do it, Venjur.

The ban isn't worth it.

Do it Venjur
Dammit too late

kuang1 · 22-06-2019 11:01pm

Another change of topic...

Anyone out there who's planning to build, about to build, thinking about building, or extending...

After you settle on a builder, please don't blindly accept any price you get for services or materials.
I'm very fortunate. I've a 4 day working week. I have the time and inclination to research and shop around.

It's bordering on mind-boggling how quotes can vary. Few examples:

Fencing (just the materials, not erecting of)... 6 companies in Ireland I found who supplied what I wanted:
Cheapest quote €3,300. Dearest €9,050.
Now that's for the EXACT SAME product and quantity of.
Ended up shipping it in from the UK for €2,500 + €300 shipping.

A tiler that was recommended to me by a pal quoted me €11,000 for what I needed doing.
Has ended up costing me €3,200 in total; met with another tiler who encouraged me to go get the tiles I wanted meself, and that he'd only then have to charge for the labour involved. Tiles & adhesive etc €1200, labour €2,000.

Internal door handles: builders providers quote: €565.
Same stuff on ebay (from UK) : €270. (plus €3.50 parcel motel fee!)

Sockets and switches: via my electrician €1900. Via myself, ebay and the UK: €1200.

I've no problem paying for good quality materials and paying for the good quality service (if required) of installing said materials.
But my good gawd... There are some amount of vultures out there who seem to rely on people being in a rush and who are willing to write a blank check just to get the job finished ASAP...

Saddening.

Just thought I'd share.

Oh and as an after-thought... I should add that the tradesmen I've encountered on my build have been A1. Top class guys. Very accommodating, very easy to communicate with.
Notable exception were the plasterers. Bulls in China shops have more grace. (not every plasterer in the country is of the same ilk I'm sure)
Not only seemed to sh1t all over everything as they worked, but held the whole build to ransom by randomly taking days off on whims, with no notice given.
(I didn't build direct labour btw, builder drafted in guys he knew)
Tried to butter them up by delivering lunch to them a few times, sadly it resulted in no uptake in results.

Question everything. Politely! No need to be a pain in anyone's ass, but make your voice heard.
Be prepared to pay for a job well done, and prepare them for you planning to get what you pay for.

Moving in in 3 weeks.

Stheno · 22-06-2019 11:04pm

That's mental kuang

22-06-2019 11:10pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Any American law maker not taking personal responsibility for their serious gun problem is either incredibly dim or more likely abusively greedy and incapable of doing the right thing.

The richest country in the world shouldn't have this problem. The mental hurdles they go through to justify it really highlights what money can buy. An entire platform of misinformation manages to keep any kind of gun control off the table despite the fact that everyone would genuinely benefit from it.

America is a write off at this stage. It will be the Rome of our times.

You're just jealous of their freedom

Neil3030 · 23-06-2019 12:02am

When I hear of Chinese families making $6.5m donations to get their kids into U.S. universities, I can't help but feel, "America is going to be just fine".

dregin · 23-06-2019 9:23am

kuang1 wrote: »

Another change of topic...

Anyone out there who's planning to build, about to build, thinking about building, or extending...

After you settle on a builder, please don't blindly accept any price you get for services or materials.
I'm very fortunate. I've a 4 day working week. I have the time and inclination to research and shop around.

It's bordering on mind-boggling how quotes can vary. Few examples:

Fencing (just the materials, not erecting of)... 6 companies in Ireland I found who supplied what I wanted:
Cheapest quote €3,300. Dearest €9,050.
Now that's for the EXACT SAME product and quantity of.
Ended up shipping it in from the UK for €2,500 + €300 shipping.

A tiler that was recommended to me by a pal quoted me €11,000 for what I needed doing.
Has ended up costing me €3,200 in total; met with another tiler who encouraged me to go get the tiles I wanted meself, and that he'd only then have to charge for the labour involved. Tiles & adhesive etc €1200, labour €2,000.

Internal door handles: builders providers quote: €565.
Same stuff on ebay (from UK) : €270. (plus €3.50 parcel motel fee!)

Sockets and switches: via my electrician €1900. Via myself, ebay and the UK: €1200.

I've no problem paying for good quality materials and paying for the good quality service (if required) of installing said materials.
But my good gawd... There are some amount of vultures out there who seem to rely on people being in a rush and who are willing to write a blank check just to get the job finished ASAP...

Saddening.

Just thought I'd share.

Oh and as an after-thought... I should add that the tradesmen I've encountered on my build have been A1. Top class guys. Very accommodating, very easy to communicate with.
Notable exception were the plasterers. Bulls in China shops have more grace. (not every plasterer in the country is of the same ilk I'm sure)
Not only seemed to sh1t all over everything as they worked, but held the whole build to ransom by randomly taking days off on whims, with no notice given.
(I didn't build direct labour btw, builder drafted in guys he knew)
Tried to butter them up by delivering lunch to them a few times, sadly it resulted in no uptake in results.

Question everything. Politely! No need to be a pain in anyone's ass, but make your voice heard.
Be prepared to pay for a job well done, and prepare them for you planning to get what you pay for.

Moving in in 3 weeks.

I've only had one quote so far for 30m2 ground floor extension, replastering and rewiring of the whole house and loft extension. 200k. Absolute lunacy.

stephen_n · 23-06-2019 11:22am

Former Former wrote: »

You omitted the next line of my question which was:

I'm sure like most people, I went to a massive spate of weddings in my late 20s to mid 30s. The only non-Church wedding I went to was my own. My son is, like 90%+ of kids, in a Catholic primary school. Out of 30 kids in his class, only two don't "learn" religion; my son and a Hindu.

If I asked most of my friends why they got married in a church, why they baptised their kids, why they don't excuse them from religion class, I'd get a range of answers from a bored shrug to "I didn't want to upset my mam" to "the communion will be a nice day out". None of them would say "because of my strong faith in Jesus".

However, by continuing to prop up the church, we're all complicit in keeping intolerance alive. Kudos! I'm genuinely surprised by the number of posters who think that all this stuff isn't part of church teachings any more but it absolutely is.

The mad thing is that, for all the people piling into me about Folau, no-one would be happier if the cushy protection that religion gets was removed in the morning.

As for overwhelming ass-kicking, I dunno. 62-38 was a nice margin for gay marriage but 38% is still a good chunk of people. It was a similar margin in Australia IIRC so Folau isn't that out of step with society. Still don't believe me? Head to Belfast and ask how you go about marrying your gay partner.

The church might be dying a death but we're all doing our best impression of Weekend at Bernie's to keep it going.

Well the schools part is almost unavoidable and with it comes the need for baptism. More marriages happen outside churches now than in them.

23-06-2019 12:01pm

dregin wrote: »

I've only had one quote so far for 30m2 ground floor extension, replastering and rewiring of the whole house and loft extension. 200k. Absolute lunacy.

Wonder if it's one of those cases of them not really wanting/needing the job. That is absolutely mental.

sydthebeat · 23-06-2019 1:25pm

dregin wrote: »

I've only had one quote so far for 30m2 ground floor extension, replastering and rewiring of the whole house and loft extension. 200k. Absolute lunacy.

We're in a climate currently of very, very sparse trades.... So the guys out there can charge what they want.... Simple supply and demand.

23-06-2019 4:38pm

That's a poor half of football. Not much composure from either team, poor discipline.

Buer · 23-06-2019 5:39pm

Deleted User wrote:

That's a poor half of football. Not much composure from either team, poor discipline.

Exhibition in the second half though. Given the conditions, that was excellent regardless of the opposition. Sticking some of those over the bar wouldn't be a given in an unopposed training exercise.

jr86 · 23-06-2019 5:48pm

Buer wrote: »

Exhibition in the second half though. Given the conditions, that was excellent regardless of the opposition. Sticking some of those over the bar wouldn't be a given in an unopposed training exercise.

Looks like Dublin have Roscommon in super 8s plus two back door teams?

Would be surprised if anyone came within 10 points of Dublin till the final, where maybe Donegal might keep them honest enough for 45 minutes or so.

They'll cruise the All Ireland - outside of themselves I haven't seen a weaker field overall since the 1990s. Meath are arguably a top 8 side in Ireland on form that says it all

Buer · 23-06-2019 6:14pm

jr86 wrote:

They'll cruise the All Ireland - outside of themselves I haven't seen a weaker field overall since the 1990s. Meath are arguably a top 8 side in Ireland on form that says it all

I think it's an unfortunate time where other teams are in a rebuilding phase or trying to introduce new blood. Dublin are just a conveyor belt of talent where they can drip feed lads into championship football over 1-2 seasons before they're starting.

Dublin are in a position where they never have to rebuild. They have a luxury of continually phasing lads out. 6 of the lads who started last year's Leinster final didn't start today and the side is no weaker.

Whilst football overall isn't in a strong place I think it's necessary to acknowledge that this is probably the best team that has ever played the sport.

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