Immigration Controls

Stop moaning ffs · 18-06-2019 9:17pm

There is no european army.
Can we please stop with that nonsense?
Please?

RobbingBandit · 18-06-2019 9:23pm

Need to see extensive throughout background checks done, the recent gangland victim from Iran was here on political asylum yet he was able to engage in alleged criminal activity while here.

greenfield21 · 18-06-2019 9:26pm

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

Those numbers are 3 years old

Ireland has had a huge influx from India since then. Not to mention Brazil and other SA countries.

Where is the latest numbers on immigration. Why do I think they will show little change on the previous figures. They must be all here illegally or as students and don't show up on the system.

Timberrrrrrrr · 18-06-2019 9:30pm

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Need to see extensive throughout background checks done, the recent gangland victim from Iran was here on political asylum yet he was able to engage in alleged criminal activity while here.

What if he had no previous criminal record?

Australia has extensive checks but it doesn't stop criminals getting in.

theguzman · 18-06-2019 9:54pm

I think most people don't have a problem with Immigration per say, it is the type of people we are admitting, when your religion is totally incompatible with modernity you should be kept out, when your ethos is to be lazy and draw social welfare you should be kept out.

Irish Citizenship should only be for Irish people and us Native Irish given proffered status for Public Employment, if you are an immigrant you or your children should never be allowed become Irish citizens and if you commit a felony type offence you should be deported even if living here the last 20+ 30 years I don't care. We should follow the UAE approach, not the George Soros destroy Western Civilisation model.

These people should be treated as the outsiders they are and let them live pay taxes and obey our rules, they should not be allowed engage in politics or have any say in how this country is run or operated. They bring great diversity but should obey our rules and way of life. No-one can argue with this as no-one wants criminality. Rape gangs terrorised Northern England is this something we should allow because it is of their religion and culture?

As things currently stand Irish people. culture and way of life will be completely lost and destroyed within two generations and the Ireland of my childhood will be completely destroyed by the time I enter my eighties if I live long enough.

Stop moaning ffs · 18-06-2019 10:02pm

theguzman wrote: »

I think most people don't have a problem with Immigration per say, it is the type of people we are admitting, when your religion is totally incompatible with modernity you should be kept out, when your ethos is to be lazy and draw social welfare you should be kept out.

Irish Citizenship should only be for Irish people and us Native Irish given proffered status for Public Employment, if you are an immigrant you or your children should never be allowed become Irish citizens and if you commit a felony type offence you should be deported even if living here the last 20+ 30 years I don't care. We should follow the UAE approach, not the George Soros destroy Western Civilisation model.

These people should be treated as the outsiders they are and let them live pay taxes and obey our rules, they should not be allowed engage in politics or have any say in how this country is run or operated. They bring great diversity but should obey our rules and way of life. No-one can argue with this as no-one wants criminality. Rape gangs terrorised Northern England is this something we should allow because it is of their religion and culture?

As things currently stand Irish people. culture and way of life will be completely lost and destroyed within two generations and the Ireland of my childhood will be completely destroyed by the time I enter my eighties if I live long enough.

Haven’t heard of any rape gangs or attacks on people by Muslims here on anyone. Not even any arrests.

Irish culture would you go away? We’re a british colony. Hello premiership love island and X factor. Irish people for the scary part which of the younger demographic have no idea what their culture is at all. British in all but name.

So 140,000 irish people emigrated in 5 short years. Those countries should be made aware they’re coming to work for scab wages, take locals jobs and generally act the maggot. To the embarrassment of us all.
Go way with your backwards pig ignorant racist bull and consider our own infecting the world before you criticise anyone that has come here

theguzman · 18-06-2019 10:19pm

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Haven’t heard of any rape gangs or attacks on people by Muslims here on anyone. Not even any arrests.

Irish culture would you go away? We’re a british colony. Hello premiership love island and X factor. Irish people for the scary part which of the younger demographic have no idea what their culture is at all. British in all but name.

So 140,000 irish people emigrated in 5 short years. Those countries should be made aware they’re coming to work for scab wages, take locals jobs and generally act the maggot. To the embarrassment of us all.
Go way with your backwards pig ignorant racist bull and consider our own infecting the world before you criticise anyone that has come here

Irish people are ethnically different to the Anglo Saxon English. We are not British, our forefathers put their lives on the line to ensure of this. Irish people emigrated because Fianna Fail wrecked the country, they went abroad and worked damn hard, some have returned, others have made new lives. They didn't go around raping or going on suicide terrorist missions, nor did they look for free welfare handouts in Australia, the US (lol) or Canada etc. People like you call me a racist are the problem too blinded to the leftwing agenda to form any other opinion only try and virtue signal and call anyone who disagrees a racist. Thankfully all over Europe people are waking up to the lies and thrash of the leftist approach and the Right-wing are gaining ground and the far right growing also.

If Ireland had a referendum asking us to limit Immigration then it would pass by a 90% landslide, if we had a referendum asking should we tolerate or stop a religion who condones rape, pedophilia and the murder of non believers then I would go so far as to say it would pass by 95%

johnnyskeleton · 18-06-2019 10:38pm

Mod note:

Topic is immigration controls, not religion.

ancapailldorcha · 18-06-2019 10:40pm

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Mod note:

Topic is immigration controls, not religion.

Post deleted.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 18-06-2019 10:55pm

theguzman wrote: »

If Ireland had a referendum asking us to limit Immigration then it would pass by a 90% landslide, if we had a referendum asking should we tolerate or stop a religion who condones rape, pedophilia and the murder of non believers then I would go so far as to say it would pass by 95%

Any pole or data to back up that 90%? We already have means/measure to limit immigration (including from the EU); doesn’t mean it’d be enforced (as it wasn’t in the UK).

Stop moaning ffs · 18-06-2019 10:56pm

SNIP. Do not question mod warnings on thread please.

Stephen15 · 18-06-2019 11:18pm

It was actually a left wing viewpoint to be anti immigration until the left were hijacked by a bunch of liberal college students and champagne socialists. Think about it many immigrants from poorer countries are willing to accept low paid jobs with bad terms and conditions in order to send money home to their families or save to go home.

How can Irish workers with rent/mortgage to pay and a family to feed compete with immigrant workers who are sharing a house and splitting the rent with other immigrants and spending very little in order to save or send money back home where low wages here are worth a lot more back home. This means that the Irish are better off on the dole than working.

Many immigrants also don't have much of a family or social life here so they are willing as much hours as they possibly can. This makes immigrants far more attractive to employers than native Irish so mass immigration actually suits big business. What's even more disgraceful is unions are willing to stand idly by and let this race to the bottom happen and in fact actually encourage it to add insult to injury by promoting diversity in the workplace and other nonsense like that. Instead of standing up for their Irish long serving members.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 18-06-2019 11:34pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

It was actually a left wing viewpoint to be anti immigration until the left were hijacked by a bunch of liberal college students and champagne socialists. Think about it many immigrants from poorer countries are willing to accept low paid jobs with bad terms and conditions in order to send money home to their families or save to go home.

How can Irish workers with rent/mortgage to pay and a family to feed compete with immigrant workers who are sharing a house and splitting the rent with other immigrants and spending very little in order to save or send money back home where low wages here are worth a lot more back home. This means that the Irish are better off on the dole than working.

Many immigrants also don't have much of a family or social life here so they are willing as much hours as they possibly can. This makes immigrants far more attractive to employers than native Irish so mass immigration actually suits big business. What's even more disgraceful is unions are willing to stand idly by and let this race to the bottom happen and in fact actually encourage it to add insult to injury by promoting diversity in the workplace and other nonsense like that. Instead of standing up for their Irish long serving members.

Facts? Figures? A plethora of examples to back up all of this?

Stephen15 · 18-06-2019 11:40pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Facts? Figures? A plethora of examples to back up all of this?

Ask yourself the question how can an immigrant with a minimum wage job afford to pay the rent in Dublin when people with jobs on higher wages have to commute from the likes of Gorey, Portlaoise, Drogheda etc.

Remember this story? My guess is a large number of the tenants were immigrants.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/exclusive-undercover-probe-exposes-property-firm-overcrowding-houses-with-up-to-70-people-house-could-have-burned-to-the-ground-35291528.html

j8wk2feszrnpao · 19-06-2019 12:11am

Stephen15 wrote: »

Ask yourself the question ....

I asked you questions, but you gave an example of exploitation of immigrants. So the issue is an Irish Landlord, an Irish Website, and Dublin City Council all failing in their duty to ensure exploitation of individuals (no matter their nationality) doesn’t occur. Seen a similar issue highlighted by Channel 4 sometime back.

So don’t really get what this has to do with your issue? Did Irish people miss out on being exploited? Is that it? Were these low paid workers, who could only afford to live in such conditions, taking the opportunity away from a Irish person?
Surely the piece highlights our own issues with ensuring current standards/laws are met?

BobbyBobberson · 19-06-2019 12:13am

People always tend me to be somewhere in the middle when it comes to immigration. No one wants mass immigration and no is stupid enough to think to close the borders completely, problem being is that the argument usually gets hijacked by either side of the political spectrum.

In terms of population density, I think Ireland is about the 12th least densely populated with countries higher on the list including nordic countries which has some unforgiving landscape. It is all about perspective when it comes to density. The UK is three times more dp then us and many think that it has too much of an urban existence however I read recently that more land is exposed when the tide recedes than is built on in the UK.

We need immigration, barring some excessive pro natalist policy, to sustain jobs and look after the elderly in the future. You can replace some workers to a certain extent with robots but robots do not pay tax (though B Gates did moot this idea recently). Fact remains is that we need immigrants to fill the jobs others do not want to do. Hospitality is full of hard working migrants who will be hard to replace. The EU has allowed us to have access to workers to fill jobs but just as easily they can get up and leave. Look at fruit farms in the UK, they have not even changed their immigration policy and are struggling to get produce picked. Migration causes demand and thus more jobs. We ourselves are a country with strong emigrant history, in fact today only New Zealand has a larger live emigrant number in terms of % of total population.

On the other side, I can see the reasoning on people in relation to people causing a serious offence here.If you commit a serious crime and are imprisoned, should you be a burden on the state? Then the counter argument is, do we take all jailed irish abroad? Rent and housing increases are impacted by immigration but not to the extent to be fully responsible for the increases. Govt policy could do a lot more to ease the burden, I see Berlin have announced a five year freeze on rents. Perhaps if this govt actually built more homes then we would not have such an issue.

As I said, it lies somewhere in the middle and I am sure that in todays reasoned and balanced political climate that we can all sort this out :pac::pac:

Stephen15 · 19-06-2019 12:44am

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I asked you questions, but you gave an example of exploitation of immigrants. So the issue is an Irish Landlord, an Irish Website, and Dublin City Council all failing in their duty to ensure exploitation of individuals (no matter their nationality) doesn’t occur. Seen a similar issue highlighted by Channel 4 sometime back.

So don’t really get what this has to do with your issue? Did Irish people miss out on being exploited? Is that it? Were these low paid workers, who could only afford to live in such conditions, taking the opportunity away from a Irish person?
Surely the piece highlights our own issues with ensuring current standards/laws are met?

You seem like your not understanding my point. Irish people won't put up with that kind of crap and have no need to. Immigrants from the third world are willing to put with these kind of conditions as they are used to it in their own countries.

This leads to the fact that Irish people can't compete with immigrants when it comes to jobs and housing in their own country as immigrants are willing to put up with sh1tty conditions but Irish want a decent standard of living for themselves and their families and means that Irish people are missing out on improving their lot.

Many Irish won't work low wage jobs as they realise they are better off on the dole while immigrants will as they are probably not going to be here for a very long and many don't have family here to support and are sending money home or saving to go home. The money are making here even though it is low by our standards is worth quite a lot in the third world.

Immigration suits business think about it if you owned a business would you rather employ an immigrant who is fully flexible for low wages or an Irish person who will only work 8 hours a day 5 days a week for a decent wage.

mandrake04 · 19-06-2019 4:20am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

What if he had no previous criminal record?

Australia has extensive checks but it doesn't stop criminals getting in.

Australia only checks criminal record for Permanent immigration as you need Police Certificates of all countries you previously lived more than 6 months, if you are on Holiday or a temporary work visa it’s a self declaration definitely not extensive.

Also only a custodial sentence of over 12 months is the threshold for rejection, so a former criminal that only served 11 months in custody wouldn’t be straight forward but wouldn’t necessarily be a outright ban.

mandrake04 · 19-06-2019 4:27am

theguzman wrote: »

As things currently stand Irish people. culture and way of life will be completely lost and destroyed within two generations and the Ireland of my childhood will be completely destroyed by the time I enter my eighties if I live long enough.

That’s just the way of the world, things change when I was a kid in 80s and early 90s we spent our time playing Gaelic football and summers at Gaeltacht. Kids these days just want to play PlayStation or spend time on their smart phone.

mandrake04 · 19-06-2019 4:31am

theguzman wrote: »

Irish people are ethnically different to the Anglo Saxon English. We are not British, our forefathers put their lives on the line to ensure of this.

I agree and disagree, maybe not British but even within the 26 counties a fair population would have Saxon blood running through their veins especially in the Pale.

AngryHippie · 19-06-2019 5:47am

sonic85 wrote: »

Can't believe someone in this thread has insinuated another poster should commit suicide if they aren't happy with their contribution to the planet and not one person has called them out on it. What the actual fcuk. Unbelievable.

That is not exactly what was written. Somebody suggested they might consider that as an option.

Agreed it is poor form that it wasn't called out though.
The mere fact that the poster is engaging in intellectual discourse over the problem would suggest that they wouldn't benefit society by removing themselves from it (They aren't the problem). [to be cold about it]

That said, I agree with the opinion that there are too many people on our planet and that it poses an existential crisis. Education and birth control need to be high priorities for every administration in order to mitigate this looming population crisis and avoid ecological collapse, relying on the traditional 4 horsemen will result in an uncontrollable adjustment of the apocalyptic variety.

I think the crux of the matter is though, the "economic growth" mantra that keeps getting trotted out as some sort of governmental KPI, this only exists with a growing population....there is a fundamental mis-match between what we demand of our politicians and economy and what we need as a society and species.

Sustainability and growth as we know them do not co-exist on a continuous timeline.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 19-06-2019 7:47am

Stephen15 wrote: »

You seem like your not understanding my point.

No, I understand you perfectly. Still waiting for those facts/figures thought.

Stephen15 wrote: »

Immigrants from the third world are willing to put with these kind of conditions as they are used to it in their own countries.

This leads to the fact that Irish people can't compete with immigrants when it comes to jobs and housing in their own country as immigrants are willing to put up with sh1tty conditions but Irish want a decent standard of living for themselves and their families and means that Irish people are missing out on improving their lot.

You are missing the point. The issue from your link is Irish businesses exploiting people, and the Irish state not protecting them.
By the way, you do know that just because they are immigrants, they aren't all here for low paid jobs and sh1tty conditions? Been to any Irish hospital lately?

j8wk2feszrnpao · 19-06-2019 8:00am

AngryHippie wrote: »

That is not exactly what was written. Somebody suggested they might consider that as an option.

Just to be clear, I didn't want that person to consider it an option (I did say "I hope not").

In a topic about immigration (not the World's population), the poster stated there was no benefits to an increased population in Ireland (when there is), that our economic system it is mostly VERY bad (without backing it up), that London has nothing to offer (when it does), that they are happy with Ireland's population (which in on the increase, even without immigration) but not the rest of the World, and believes that people (I'm assuming they include themselves) are not a positive thing for the planet. I don't see that as intellectual discourse (I'd imagine others may disagree).

Cal4567 · 19-06-2019 8:06am

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Facts? Figures? A plethora of examples to back up all of this?

They have a point. If you just go back to the Left pre 1980s, it was a recognised concern. In fact in the UK, part of the Left who were more Brexit inclined still use this as an example, that the influx of low skilled immigrants does no favours to the existing low skilled indidgenous workforce. That idea does not sit comfortably with the middle class SJWs who now seem to control left wing politics.

Yurt2 · 19-06-2019 8:28am

Cal4567 wrote: »

They have a point. If you just go back to the Left pre 1980s, it was a recognised concern. In fact in the UK, part of the Left who were more Brexit inclined still use this as an example, that the influx of low skilled immigrants does no favours to the existing low skilled indidgenous workforce. That idea does not sit comfortably with the middle class SJWs who now seem to control left wing politics.

Immigration of the sort we see in Ireland or the UK does indeed increase headline GDP by a percentage point or so a year - on that most economists agree. What they also agree on is that the gains get captured by the wealthy via rents, via cheaper labour, more 'flexible' and casualised labour. Good for business, but not necessarily good for society as a whole. Particularly if you're from lower income strata, you're in increased competition for housing, access to schools, healthcare and above all, the value of your labour has been undercut.

We're in a weird situation now where the contemporary left gives a kind of backhanded endorsement to a type of global capitalism that seeks to undermine the economic stability of the working classes.

I posted in another thread, when you see the likes of IBEC cheerleading for more non-EU immigration, you scratch your head and wonder if it's the interests of the Philipino cleaner / Brazilian food-service worker they're thinking of or their members' profit margins.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 19-06-2019 9:06am

Cal4567 wrote: »

They have a point. If you just go back to the Left pre 1980s, it was a recognised concern. In fact in the UK, part of the Left who were more Brexit inclined still use this as an example, that the influx of low skilled immigrants does no favours to the existing low skilled indidgenous workforce. That idea does not sit comfortably with the middle class SJWs who now seem to control left wing politics.

I'm only asking they back up their point with actual facts and figures.
Broadly stating that immigrants are only in low skilled jobs, living in horrible conditions, is a rant rather than a valid contribution.
Preventing the exploitation of workers is something we can already control, but don't.

ancapailldorcha · 19-06-2019 9:57am

Mod: If you make a claim, it's not unreasonable for other posters to ask for evidence. Soapboxing is not allowed in this forum.

Case in point:

Stephen15 wrote: »

Ask yourself the question how can an immigrant with a minimum wage job afford to pay the rent in Dublin when people with jobs on higher wages have to commute from the likes of Gorey, Portlaoise, Drogheda etc.

Remember this story? My guess is a large number of the tenants were immigrants.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/exclusive-undercover-probe-exposes-property-firm-overcrowding-houses-with-up-to-70-people-house-could-have-burned-to-the-ground-35291528.html

A Shropshire Lad · 19-06-2019 9:58am

Yurt! wrote: »

I posted in another thread, when you see the likes of IBEC cheerleading for more non-EU immigration, you scratch your head and wonder if it's the interests of the Philipino cleaner / Brazilian food-service worker they're thinking of or their members' profit margins.

I think business will always think about the profit margin. Even the high skilled IT workers arriving from India are being exploited to some degree in that they tend to be on less money than say an Irish person with the same skillset. But the offer of a working visa and a chance to gain experience in a western country is of great value to them also.

Stephen15 · 19-06-2019 10:53am

munstermagic11 wrote: »

You are missing the point. The issue from your link is Irish businesses exploiting people, and the Irish state not protecting them.
By the way, you do know that just because they are immigrants, they aren't all here for low paid jobs and sh1tty conditions? Been to any Irish hospital lately?

And they wouldn't be exploited by Irish businesses if they werent allowed into the country in the first place. Problem solved. I'm not denying they are exploited all I am saying is that Irish people are suffering as a result of their willingness to be exploited. It took an Irish person to highlight immigrants being exploited going to show that a certain amount of immigrants are willing to put up with exploitation.

I know perfectly well not all immigrants are here for low paid jobs. That's why I want an Australian style points system for people wishing to move here which would identify skills shortages and allow immigrants live and work here only if they have the nessecary skills.

It is happening in hospitals look a the situation with nurses. Irish nurses won't put with the awful pay and conditions emigrate to the likes of Dubai, Australia, the UK and Canada but Asian nurses will. If for example Asian nurses weren't hired the HSE and the govt. know that they would have pay Irish nurses more and improve their conditions.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 19-06-2019 10:57am

Stephen15 wrote: »

And they wouldn't be exploited by Irish businesses if they werent allowed into the country in the first place. Problem solved.

Yeah, it's their fault.
If immigrant nurses/doctors weren't hired, we'd be in huge trouble. But again, it's their fault.
Discussion over.

Stephen15 · 19-06-2019 12:31pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Yeah, it's their fault.
If immigrant nurses/doctors weren't hired, we'd be in huge trouble. But again, it's their fault.
Discussion over.

As I said Australian style points system. If there's a shortage of doctors then we can allow only doctors in but not unskilled workers which are the vast majority of immigrants coming in. It's not their fault it's our fault for letting a race to the bottom happen through immigration.

It's our fault for making wages so low that the medical professions that we train here in Ireland through your taxpayers money we pay so badly feel they have to leave the country. Also don't you think that healthcare workers from outside of Ireland are leaving their own countries facing a shortage of healthcare workers.

mandrake04 · 19-06-2019 12:33pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Yeah, it's their fault.
If immigrant nurses/doctors weren't hired, we'd be in huge trouble. But again, it's their fault.
Discussion over.

Well you be in even worse shambles than currently.

I work in health industry in Australia myself, load of Irish doctors over here now one was telling me he moved about 4-5 years ago and when he left Dublin he was replaced by an Indian doctor who has ironically now moved to the same Australian hospital as himself.

is_that_so · 19-06-2019 12:38pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

As I said Australian style points system. If there's a shortage of doctors then we can allow only doctors in but not unskilled workers which are the vast majority of immigrants coming in. It's not their fault it's our fault for letting a race to the bottom happen through immigration.

It's our fault for making wages so low that the medical professions that we train here in Ireland through your taxpayers money we pay so badly feel they have to leave the country. Also don't you think that healthcare workers from outside of Ireland are leaving their own countries facing a shortage of healthcare workers.

There is a global shortage of healthcare professionals and some countries have better inducements. The likes of the UK offer more and closeness to home, Australia and Canada a new lifestyle and the money is in the Middle East.

And there is a check on what comes in via the medical fields through international language exams, IELTS in particular and an occupational one called OET.

mandrake04 · 19-06-2019 12:44pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

As I said Australian style points system. If there's a shortage of doctors then we can allow only doctors in but not unskilled workers which are the vast majority of immigrants coming in. It's not their fault it's our fault for letting a race to the bottom happen through immigration.

It's our fault for making wages so low that the medical professions that we train here in Ireland through your taxpayers money we pay so badly feel they have to leave the country. Also don't you think that healthcare workers from outside of Ireland are leaving their own countries facing a shortage of healthcare workers.

To be fair it’s not just the wages, it’s the conditions and the technology. The smart Doctors these days don’t want to be working back in the 90s or early ‘000s they want to work in 2019. Lot of Irish doctors working for example in Australia will be working on cutting edge techniques, they return home in 10 years and pick up Consultants-Director jobs they still be 10-15 years ahead of their old colleagues.

enricoh · 19-06-2019 1:18pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Yeah, it's their fault.
If immigrant nurses/doctors weren't hired, we'd be in huge trouble. But again, it's their fault.
Discussion over.

Yeah, they're all doctors n engineers coming over! 21% presenting as homeless are non eu, plus 12% eu. So 1in 3 on homeless list is non irish. What percentage is non irish in last census 15%ish iirc.
So foreigners are twice as likely to be a drain on the state as paddies. Yay, lets take another 500,000 in so!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.rte.ie/amp/1039821/&ved=2ahUKEwjfyJD6wfXiAhXqQEEAHbuTBZ4QFjAAegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw3DS8gy2sdVScNO_BnqClaQ&ampcf=1

Third of families presenting as homeless are foreign nationals whose rights are ‘unclear’

j8wk2feszrnpao · 19-06-2019 2:03pm

enricoh wrote: »

Yeah, they're all doctors n engineers coming over! 21% presenting as homeless are non eu, plus 12% eu. So 1in 3 on homeless list is non irish. What percentage is non irish in last census 15%ish iirc.
So foreigners are twice as likely to be a drain on the state as paddies. Yay, lets take another 500,000 in so!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.rte.ie/amp/1039821/&ved=2ahUKEwjfyJD6wfXiAhXqQEEAHbuTBZ4QFjAAegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw3DS8gy2sdVScNO_BnqClaQ&ampcf=1

Third of families presenting as homeless are foreign nationals whose rights are ‘unclear’

Never said any of that, but hey, it's make stuff up time.

ancapailldorcha · 19-06-2019 2:18pm

enricoh wrote: »

Yeah, they're all doctors n engineers coming over!

No more sarcasm please.

Jimmy Garlic · 19-06-2019 2:31pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Well, Irish people are generally free to go to most countries to work so we can't have it both ways...

Try going to Australia, Canada, New Zealand , America etc without a visa and see how you get on.

Stephen15 · 19-06-2019 2:56pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Never said any of that, but hey, it's make stuff up time.

A shortage of skilled labour is often used by proponents of open borders making out that all immigrants coming in are highly skilled which I cannot accept as being the truth. For example I highly doubt all the immigrants in DP are doctors, engineers, scientists, lawyers etc. I also highly doubt that Ahmed working the night shift at the local Circle K garage has a degree either.

mandrake04 · 19-06-2019 3:04pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

I also highly doubt that Ahmed working the night shift at the local Circle K garage has a degree either.

To be fair Ahmed could be an international student.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 19-06-2019 3:09pm

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Try going to Australia, Canada, New Zealand , America etc without a visa and see how you get on.

Are you suggesting America doesn't have an issue with illegal immigrants? Pretty sure Donald may disagree with you.

2ndcoming · 19-06-2019 3:10pm

As this is under the [Irish Economy] banner immigration has been shown, time and time again, to be a positive thing, economically.

We have an ageing populace who will become more and more of a burden on the state the more time passes. Immigrants are shown to be net contributors overall. Higher population means more people earning / spending / paying taxes and this drives the economy.

Skilled / unskilled, it doesn't really matter, all are needed.

A bigger problem is the continuation of emigration of young, skilled Irish nationals. While there will always be a number of young people who want to fly the coop, it is fair to say this number is remaining too high in Ireland and it is also fair to say that the centre-right neoliberal policies of our current government contribute to this rather than helping stop it.

These parties are buoyed by a generation who won the lottery of inflation, buying houses in the 70s and 80s and seeing their value grow like a mushroom cloud in the decades since, with 2008-15 looking like a minor blip at this stage. Lucky them, but of course this means that future generations starting out in that hyperinflated market are far more likely to feck off somewhere else rather than shackle themselves with a lifetime mortgage on a property they don't even really like for the sake of it when they can be paid more to do the same job with a better lifestyle somewhere else.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 19-06-2019 3:15pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

A shortage of skilled labour is often used by proponents of open borders making out that all immigrants coming in are highly skilled which I cannot accept as being the truth. For example I highly doubt all the immigrants in DP are doctors, engineers, scientists, lawyers etc.

Is there anyone making that claim?

Stephen15 wrote: »

I also highly doubt that Ahmed working the night shift at the local Circle K garage has a degree either.

You know a guy called Ahmed working that shift, or they are all Ahmed to you (like we were referred to as Paddy/Mick)?
BTW, I worked as a basic line operator back in about '03. Plenty had degrees. The job doesn't has to define your qualification.

Eric Cartman · 19-06-2019 7:51pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Is there anyone making that claim?

You know a guy called Ahmed working that shift, or they are all Ahmed to you (like we were referred to as Paddy/Mick)?
BTW, I worked as a basic line operator back in about '03. Plenty had degrees. The job doesn't has to define your qualification.

every immigration thread, every post about restricting immigration and you always get a handful of users replying 'but what about the doctors/nurses/engineers etc... There are some that believe if 1 doctor comes in that its worth taking 100 on the dole , there are others who genuinely believe the majority are skilled and ready to contribute. Both of which are just tidbits of lunacy.

4068ac1elhodqr · 19-06-2019 8:17pm

2ndcoming wrote: »

We have an ageing populace who will become more and more of a burden on the state the more time passes. Immigrants are shown to be net contributors overall. Higher population means more people earning / spending / paying taxes and this drives the economy.

Skilled / unskilled, it doesn't really matter*, all are needed.

Highly Incorrect.

An estimated 30-50% of all current roles will be lost by the 2030's.

....And any new roles being created will require (very) high levels of education, experience and literacy.

So it *really matters* all the more who's coming (quality), and also in and in what quantity (housing and social services can't cope already)

Not to mention other factors such as global over-population (esp. in the basket case that is sub-sahara Africa).
Not to mention potential future global conflicts, mass civil disturbances and growing non-ec illegal/economic migration.
Not to mention further (expensive) EU expansion (W.Balkans) and matters related to the Barca Agreement.
Not to mention likely corporate tax harmonisation doing away with the 12.5% and Dutch sandwiches.
Not to mention the mass wealth shift to China from the West (towards India also).

Stephen15 · 19-06-2019 8:30pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

every immigration thread, every post about restricting immigration and you always get a handful of users replying 'but what about the doctors/nurses/engineers etc... There are some that believe if 1 doctor comes in that its worth taking 100 on the dole , there are others who genuinely believe the majority are skilled and ready to contribute. Both of which are just tidbits of lunacy.

It's one of the trojan horses used by proponents of open borders and mass immigration

rossie1977 · 19-06-2019 8:32pm

Very unlikely there is wealth shift to India in next ten years. I was just there in March and the levels of poverty, pollution etc alone would take far more than a decade to address

Difference between rate of progress in Indian cities and Chinese cities is like night and day

2ndcoming · 19-06-2019 8:35pm

Kristian Easy Meteorology wrote: »

Highly Incorrect.

An estimated 30-50% of all current roles will be lost by the 2030's.

....And any new roles being created will require (very) high levels of education, experience and literacy.

So it *really matters* all the more who's coming (quality), and also in and in what quantity (housing and social services can't cope already)

Not to mention other factors such as global over-population (esp. in the basket case that is sub-sahara Africa).
Not to mention potential future global conflicts, mass civil disturbances and growing non-ec illegal/economic migration.
Not to mention further (expensive) EU expansion (W.Balkans) and matters related to the Barca Agreement.
Not to mention likely corporate tax harmonisation doing away with the 12.5% and Dutch sandwiches.
Not to mention the mass wealth shift to China from the West (towards India also).

Highly incorrect.

Housing is only an issue because we allow it to be. You sound extremely entitled. Why would anyone skilled (quality) want to come to a country where they will pay more (housing) for less (services) while earning less (wages)? To serve you? Why would they want to when you clearly view them as some kind of horror we need to protect ourselves from?

People are people. Get over yourself.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 19-06-2019 8:40pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

every immigration thread, every post about restricting immigration and you always get a handful of users replying 'but what about the doctors/nurses/engineers etc...

Yes, because there are extremists that just shout about "bloody immigrants" with no appreciation about the value that many of them provide.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

There are some that believe if 1 doctor comes in that its worth taking 100 on the dole , there are others who genuinely believe the majority are skilled and ready to contribute. Both of which are just tidbits of lunacy.

Yet nobody here has stated that, along with nobody stating open borders or mass immigration. But I guess some people only see what they want to see.

4068ac1elhodqr · 19-06-2019 8:40pm

rossie1977 wrote: »

Very unlikely there is wealth shift to India in next ten years. I was just there in March and the levels of poverty, pollution etc alone would take far more than a decade to address
Difference between rate of progress in Indian cities and Chinese cities is like night and day

By 2030, India (then $46.3 trillion) will overtake USA GDP (PPP), and will overtake China for population. It will experience rapid urbanisation and high levels of economic growth.

The UK won't even be in the top10. Then by 2060 Chinas GDP will be twice the US (or equal to USA & Europe combined).

Immigration Controls

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