Naming and Shaming bad debts = bad form?

eagle eye · 11-05-2008 1:00am

mormank wrote: »

i would have to completely disagree with this im afraid. especially after how certain ppl have been treated on public forums with name calling and abuse leading to lives being taken etc...naming and shaming is something im afraid you will have to put up with if you are a shameless d@@khead about not payin back debts..to say it is reprehensible or whatever is simply overstating it imo, i say public stoning personally.

you have obviously never been jay's position

Yeah well I have, and you are talking nonsense.

kakak1 · 11-05-2008 1:04am

eagle eye wrote: »

Firstly if you had put up a post something like this and not mentioned a name, I would not have been against you.

Its tough when something like this happens but I don't like this outing someone on a forum where there are countless unknowns reading your post and from who knows where.

I do understand that its not nice to be owed money by someone who shows total disrespect for you, I personally know of another individual who has carried on in the same manner as this, luckily I got my money back off him but there are many who have not.

I would also like to add that if you do intend to out someone, you should be prepared to use your own full name, as that would only be fair.

I would personally face the issue head on, i.e. wait until I see him playing in a cash game and call him aside and request my money right there and then, and if he does not deliver, I would inform him that I will be waiting until he cashes out and let him know he will not be leaving without making at least a part payment on what I am owed.

Finally, this post is more explanatory than the other one, and I will take back most of what I posted in the 'heat of the moment' on the original thread.

I hope your financial situation improves also.

Would it not be better to send a request for his money when sending a birthday or Christmas Card.

Eagle Eye cop on, get with it. It is very obvious (and I have no idea who either of these people are) that Jayminator has gone through all the channels to try to get what is rightfully his & is long overdue to him.

I think it is absolutely dispicable that this fellow is still playing poker.

Jayminator is right to name & shame if it gets him his money back. What a cheek he has to owe money & continue to play & ignore Jayminator's requests.

If he is refusing to repay his debts he has to be prepared to accept the consequences.

ianmc38 · 11-05-2008 1:05am

eagle eye wrote: »

Naming and shaming on a public forum is not the way to go about helping someone with a serious addiction. This does not help anyone not the creditor nor debtor. The creditor came on here and got lambasted by a few people, and I'm sure that he is not happy about that. The debtor will undoubtedly hear about this, and who knows how he will take that news.
So tell me now what good has it done?

Well if i was a regular in a cardroom in Ireland and was being tapped up for money by someone, I'd like to know whether or not they're good for it. Given this person is an online high stakes player I'd assume he's good for it. Obviously not. While, it may have not been the ebst course of action to post here, i think it's good that people are made aware of the situation.

One of the biggest hinderances to the treatment of addictions is the person ignoring the problem. Hopefully, this fiasco will help them gather some self-awareness and do something about it.

Anyway, I dont want to get involved in any more of this thread.

eagle eye · 11-05-2008 1:07am

kakak1 wrote: »

Would it not be better to send a request for his money when sending a birthday or Christmas Card.

Eagle Eye cop on, get with it. It is very obvious (and I have no idea who either of these people are) that Jayminator has gone through all the channels to try to get what is rightfully his & is long overdue to him.

I think it is absolutely dispicable that this fellow is still playing poker.

Jayminator is right to name & shame if it gets him his money back. What a cheek he has to owe money & continue to play & ignore Jayminator's requests.

If he is refusing to repay his debts he has to be prepared to accept the consequences.

I'm just wondering if you read my post before quoting it and responding to it.

mormank · 11-05-2008 1:07am

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah well I have, and you are talking nonsense.

its not nonsense my friend...i think each to their own on this one. just because you or one or two other ppl dont think its appropriate doesnt make it gospel. if someone simply will not repay a debt and every other avenue has been exhausted i think he is 'fair game' im afraid. after that who is to say what is the correct route to take.

The Al Lad · 11-05-2008 1:10am

mormank wrote: »

true poker events are one of the debts i speak of. but the other is my old boss in the glod club in limerick. it was far more under handed imo and he took advantage of my naivity at the time and my good nature. asked several times for it back but to of no avail, also more than a monkey!! and twas wages mostly

I didn't know you were an alter boy ???

mormank · 11-05-2008 1:13am

The Al Lad wrote: »

I didn't know you were an alter boy ???

lol. im not. but back when i took my first baby steps into this seedy world of poker and whores i was extremely naive about it all and was taken advantage of and....wait, i do sound like an alter boy!!!

11-05-2008 1:14am

mormank wrote: »

i would have to completely disagree with this im afraid. especially after how certain ppl have been treated on public forums with name calling and abuse leading to lives being taken etc...naming and shaming is something im afraid you will have to put up with if you are a shameless d@@khead about not payin back debts..to say it is reprehensible or whatever is simply overstating it imo, i say public stoning personally.

you have obviously never been jay's position

I can accept your view. I do not think that comparing this to the Brandi thing is comparing like with like though.

IMO it is in poor taste and very bad form to name and shame. Perhaps there are times when it is acceptable but I do not agree that this is one of those times. Just because Jay is in a bad spot does not mean he should resort to this.

You are right I have never been in Jay's situation but I would never have loaned such a serious sum of money to someone I didn't trust completely.

kincsem · 11-05-2008 1:18am

Best to refuse any requests. I twice gave buy-ins to someone, who developed goldfish memory about the first two subs when I refused a third request. They won a four figure sum, but no offer to repay.

Lazare · 11-05-2008 1:21am

I think he's right to name and shame, because I love the drama of it all. I don't know the guy in question personally, so I'm not offended in any way.

If it was me that was named and shamed I'd be pissed, but it's not, so I don't care about the morality of it.

Popcorn threads are what make this forum exciting imo, who cares who gets hurt? So long as it's not me. imo.

The Al Lad · 11-05-2008 1:29am

al10pin · 11-05-2008 1:51am

Jay,

Sorry that you have been caught like this. I am only picking up on the thread now, so I haven't seen who you named but wished I did. There are a couple of notes made like don't lend etc...... all too late for you.

I think for those that are making negative posts I think it would be fair to assume that:

When the money was lent Jay was not aware of the seriousness of the person's debts

If he was a high roller on-line it would have been a fair assumption that the money was going to be given back the next time they saw one another

I would also say that promises were given and broken.

The final straw for Jay is knowing he is still playing cards live and on line with his money. You are absolutely right in naming if the guy. The poker community should be backing you instead of knocking you in the hope that noone else gets caught, and hopefully no poker room allows him play under these certain circumstances.

Jay pm me if you need a dig out

Mark M

jbravado · 11-05-2008 2:16am

Jayminator wrote: »

Sammy your next...Jokin ffs... Anyhow yes I agree it lacks class but what can ya do eh

Jay-your a gent on and off the table-the fact that you actually posted shows how badly your being messed around. I think the money will eventually come back to you. I hope it all works out.

jbravado · 11-05-2008 2:20am

ianmc38 wrote: »

FYP you pikey!

Lol best YOINK ever.Youll have to prize it out of my cold dead hands imo.Tell Pedronis his nice grey t-shirt now lines my dogs basket.

hotspur · 11-05-2008 2:52am

I first became interested in problem gambling via lending various people money through online poker and never getting it back. I appreciate that lending money to people you have never met and don't really know at all is -EV, but what surprised me was not that I almost never got money paid back from these people but that they never intended to pay it back. Some people with gambling problems will move heaven and earth to pay you back (especially if you are likely to lend again), others will just screw you completely even if they have the money.

I too have had to sit there watching a player with $15k in front of him at a table online and yet refuse to even talk to me about paying back money they owe me. It's *so* more frustrating and annoying than a guy who is genuinely broke.

I think Jay's motives were obviously 3 fold -
1) Let people know not to lend to this guy
2) Try to shame him into paying, if only to keep Jay shut and his reputation / credit line with others in good shape
3) Revenge. Calling him out for being a scumbag.

Then it comes down to whether it is acceptable morally / legally / socially to post it.

I think it is morally fine. I think it is not legally fine from boards' perspective to have unsubstantiated accusations of a libelous nature. I also think it is not healthy for the boards community to have members calling out mutual acquaintances like this. I very obviously cannot speak for Dev and co. but I get the feeling that boards simply ought not to be used for negative purposes such as naming and shaming individuals, irrespective of the possible legal implications.

I'm with Jay on this issue, with calling him out in real life to others, but not using boards to do it.

YULETIRED · 11-05-2008 2:59am

The Al Lad wrote: »

Wait until Yuletired see's what you said about him

I realise i look like a jumkie but im actually afriad of drugs since 89.:pac: (i;m drunk atm so cuse spellin)

on a serious note, im saddened that Jay is driven to this. it a crying shame . Things are tightening ecomomically for all, people should not be gambling with other people money/lives....I hope is resolved without further debate.....try not to lambase the poster , in some parts of Dublin the villian would not be given a choice to pay it back... it is indeed a sick and frustrating feeling and does make you consider drastic action, posting on a forum is not such a drastic thing..imo.....Jay has my empathy......

The Al Lad · 11-05-2008 3:03am

YULETIRED wrote: »

I realise i look like a jumkie but im actually afriad of drugs since 89.:pac: (i;m drunk atm so cuse spellin)

Ya I remember the '89 epidemic meself, I was seven, really turned me off drugs that year did

BigCityBanker · 11-05-2008 3:20am

NOBODY has asked for a PM detailing the removed name from Jays original thread.

BigCityBanker · 11-05-2008 3:22am

ianmc38 wrote: »

Jay has every right to let people know this information. I don't know who it is, but he/she is obviously a degenerate gambler and needs help by the sounds of things.

lol, rofl.

The Al Lad · 11-05-2008 3:28am

BigCityBanker wrote: »

NOBODY has asked for a PM detailing the removed name from Jays original thread.

I PM'd Jay....

He told me IT WAS YOU :eek:

ianmc38 · 11-05-2008 3:29am

It was already outed as Reggie

Shortstack · 11-05-2008 4:28am

If it is who I think it is then you will all get paid the next time said person goes on a heater. If he is still playing live/online poker then it is NOT with his own money so how is he supposed to pay people back?

I understand Jay's reason for posting the initial thread and TBH I think that once it was posted it should stay there.

At the moment Jay there is very little chance of you getting any cash back. As I found out recently the amount owed is far too much to expect any return. You should just hope people keep staking him as it is the only chance you have of getting anything back which means the thread you posted has just jeopardised any chance you have of getting your cash back.

FWIW the guy in question is a really sound person who has just got himself in over his head. I have no doubt if he gets the cash to pay evreyone back he will but he owes far too much for it to be a realistic possibility. If he owes you then take it as lost and it will be a nice bonus when he does get it together and you get a nice wad from him. Lending cash is a risky business, if you cannot afford to get stiffed then don't give it out no matter how well you know the person. Lesson well learned here.

Pub07 · 11-05-2008 8:54am

eagle eye wrote: »

Firstly if you had put up a post something like this and not mentioned a name, I would not have been against you.

What would be the point of the thread in Jay's view if he didn't mention a name. Hotspur was spot on when he said Jay's motives were -

1) Let people know not to lend to this guy
2) Try to shame him into paying, if only to keep Jay shut and his reputation / credit line with others in good shape
3) Revenge. Calling him out for being a scumbag.

Its tough when something like this happens but I don't like this outing someone on a forum where there are countless unknowns reading your post and from who knows where.

Why, whats the problem with letting other people know not to get stung by this guy? If he has no problem taking loans and not repaying them there's obviously a very good chance he'll do it again. At least when he's outed some people who could've gotten stung will know better than to lend.

I would personally face the issue head on, i.e. wait until I see him playing in a cash game and call him aside and request my money right there and then, and if he does not deliver, I would inform him that I will be waiting until he cashes out and let him know he will not be leaving without making at least a part payment on what I am owed.

Lol, here you go with the Schwarzenegger stuff again, you can let him know all you like that he "will not be leaving without making at least a part payment on what I am owed", but when he decides that he is precisely what he is gonna do you are fecked.

And I'd say Jay has faced the issue head-on by this stage, as he said he has "demanded the money back personnally on more than 1 occasion and been ignored". So he's down to his last resort, outing the guy on a public forum. Have you got any other options in mind? If you were owed serious cash by someone who was taking the piss by still playing high stakes while refusing to pay you what would you do at this stage after asking for your money back numerous times and being ignored?

lee_arama · 11-05-2008 10:29am

It's to be expected that players owe each other cash all over the poker scene isn't it though?

Everyone goes through highs and lows in this game; one week they're flush, the next back to pasta and oxo cubes.

If a player is flushed and not paying back their debts (or at least making gradual restitution) then there's cause for genuine disgruntlement.

However - if the player is in a trough then what can naming and shaming do other than put them further into a hole?

Being fair I think the depressions that some players go through must be astronomical. A bad beat of epic proportions can drive you to the depths of despair so readily.

Also it depends on the nature of the person involved. A handful of players in The Bank have staked me to cash games in the past, knowing full well that they'll see it back. Of course that might be a week or two coming - but they see it back.

I'll also freely admit I personally owe a player 300 quid but the guy upped and left the country at short notice (as in I got a text one night saying he was at the airport and bye bye...)

This was like 4 years ago, and knowing him he simply looks at it as a long term investment (cos he'll see a bit more than 300 whenever he returns back).

In short; I can't see the benefit of naming any person here for the purposes of 'shaming' him. All that happens is that he and his close friends rally together, and I would think that the namer suddenly finds themselves in a hostile environment. Everyone at the poker table has their secrets - and whether those secrets are voiced or not, you can be sure that everyone knows the stories. But, just because you know the stories doesn't mean you go telling all and sundry on an internet forum.

The poker industry is one built on trust... Let's keep it that way in the future.

Bandara · 11-05-2008 10:46am

lee_arama wrote: »

The poker industry is one built on trust... Let's keep it that way in the future.

A bit like then way the person was lent money in the first place? On the basis of trust that he would pay it back as agreed?

When he breaks that trust repeatedly by blowing off the person he borrowed from and making no attempt to address the debt does he still then deserve to be trusted that he will make good on the debt?

Don't think so.

Mellor · 11-05-2008 11:18am

I'm just glad my name wasn't mentioned

bohsman · 11-05-2008 11:55am

lee_arama wrote: »

The poker industry is one built on trust... Let's keep it that way in the future.

Do you really believe that? And Mormank thought he was naive.

Chucky the tree · 11-05-2008 12:28pm

semibluff · 11-05-2008 12:29pm

fwiw i, as others have mentioned know Jay to be a gent and sound guy - and so id guess that he only posted the initial thread as an absolute last resort.

hope it all turns out good - for all parties involved

Iago · 11-05-2008 12:38pm

no need for that chucky, the longer this forum runs the more ar$ehole posts that go up. no wonder we're losing decent posters hand over fist.

cardshark202 · 11-05-2008 12:59pm

ianmc38 wrote: »

It was already outed as Reggie

Woah, what about some unknowns looking at this. They might believe it! You bastard

RichieLawlor · 11-05-2008 1:08pm

Reggie gets a ridiculously raw deal imo, ive just caught up on these threads and i 'almost' believed it, his name is everywhere:D

Chucky the tree · 11-05-2008 1:48pm

Apoligies, only a joke, didnt think people would get that upset over it.

eagle eye · 11-05-2008 2:09pm

Pub07 wrote: »

What would be the point of the thread in Jay's view if he didn't mention a name. Hotspur was spot on when he said Jay's motives were -

1) Let people know not to lend to this guy
2) Try to shame him into paying, if only to keep Jay shut and his reputation / credit line with others in good shape
3) Revenge. Calling him out for being a scumbag.

Why, whats the problem with letting other people know not to get stung by this guy? If he has no problem taking loans and not repaying them there's obviously a very good chance he'll do it again. At least when he's outed some people who could've gotten stung will know better than to lend.

Lol, here you go with the Schwarzenegger stuff again, you can let him know all you like that he "will not be leaving without making at least a part payment on what I am owed", but when he decides that he is precisely what he is gonna do you are fecked.

And I'd say Jay has faced the issue head-on by this stage, as he said he has "demanded the money back personnally on more than 1 occasion and been ignored". So he's down to his last resort, outing the guy on a public forum. Have you got any other options in mind? If you were owed serious cash by someone who was taking the piss by still playing high stakes while refusing to pay you what would you do at this stage after asking for your money back numerous times and being ignored?

1. Lol, whats this about, I never mentioned violence or hard man tactics, because I know most of you are just little wimps so there'd be no point in threatening violence.

2. I'd say, I presume, which really means that you don't know anything at all.
3. Yeah, just forget about it if it goes this far. I know one thing for certain, if it was me who was the person owing the monies and had a big list, I know who would certainly be on the bottom of the list for repayments now.

I'm bored with this thread now.

Mr.Plough · 11-05-2008 4:39pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Apoligies, only a joke, didnt think people would get that upset over it.

I lol'd

cooker3 · 11-05-2008 5:09pm

Mr.Plough wrote: »

I lol'd

me too. Good gag imo

Simplicity · 11-05-2008 6:44pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Naming and shaming on a public forum is not the way to go about helping someone with a serious addiction. This does not help anyone not the creditor nor debtor. The creditor came on here and got lambasted by a few people, and I'm sure that he is not happy about that. The debtor will undoubtedly hear about this, and who knows how he will take that news.
So tell me now what good has it done?

Jay should have done what most other people do. Write a blog and then link to it. That one seems to be a gray area and avoids any issues with "public forums" tbh.

Hope it gets sorted in your favour Jay. You come across fairly sound via your posts.

dagunman · 11-05-2008 7:17pm

Half the ppl posting on this and the orginal thread dont have a clue about the situation and just wanna get involved. Then there are another host of degen's who are saying its bad form as there bricking it that they will be next to be outed.
Having spoken to Jay about this before and know the whole story I think he resorted to his last option and think his actions were fair enough.

Pub07 · 11-05-2008 7:23pm

eagle eye wrote:

3. Yeah, just forget about it if it goes this far. I know one thing for certain, if it was me who was the person owing the monies and had a big list, I know who would certainly be on the bottom of the list for repayments now.

So much for "having the stones" to get your money back and letting the borrower know that "they won't be leaving without at least making a part repayment on the money owed". In other words, you'd just throw in the towel and the guy who ripped you off is free to do it again and again to other people without consequence - and that's precisely the reason why he'll keep doing it.

eagle eye wrote:

Naming and shaming on a public forum is not the way to go about helping someone with a serious addiction. This does not help anyone not the creditor nor debtor.

I couldn't give two f*cks about 'helping' someone beat a gambling addiction when that person has helped themselves to mine and other peoples money. I'd only be interested in getting my money back, it's up to them to sort themselves out and stop inflicting misery on other people with their problem.
As I said earlier I got stung by a close friend for a decent amount of money so I have strong views on this whole issue. I'm actually back on good terms with this person these days but when I was approached by them for a loan recently, and I was fairly surprised by the cheek of it tbh, I made them aware in no uncertain terms that there was no chance it was happening and I told them exactly why.

The creditor came on here and got lambasted by a few people, and I'm sure that he is not happy about that. The debtor will undoubtedly hear about this, and who knows how he will take that news.
So tell me now what good has it done?

Here's are the advantages of naming and shaming.

Advantages:
1). Other potential lenders are made aware that the borrower is not good for the money and they are unlikely to be repaid. This could/will save upstanding members of the general poker community alot of cash and hardship.

2). When all other avenues of trying to retrieve your money have been thoroughly exhausted, naming and shaming offers one last chance of getting it back if the borrower wants to keep his reputation intact. It's the same as auld ones ringing up Joe Duffy or Gerry Ryan to whinge about some issue they want resolved, it doesn't always work but alot of the time it does and that's why they keep doing it.

3). The borrower learns that there are consequences to their actions and dishonesty. They lose their good name and they don't just get off scot free, riding off into the sunset with other peoples money time after time. I'm a believer in justice - If you f*ck someone over you should not just get away with it.

Disadvantages of naming and shaming:
1). You no longer get to stealborrow money off people that you have no intention of paying back. Oh wait, that only applies to the guy who is taking advantage of other people. Hmmm, I'm finding it hard to think of any disadvantages of letting people know that someone is ripping people off.

eagle eye · 11-05-2008 7:34pm

I did say I was tired of the thread, so stop quoting me, you are wasting your time.
Oh and Pub, I think you should read what you are quoting before you post it, or didn't you notice the smiley at the end of one of the quotes.

Tar.Aldarion · 11-05-2008 10:01pm

Lended money and not pay it back, **** him.
Posting is hardly the worst thing you could do.
As to whether it should be allowed on a forum, that is five guys decision...

Jayminator · 11-05-2008 10:16pm

Deleted User wrote: »

IMO it is in poor taste and very bad form to name and shame. Perhaps there are times when it is acceptable but I do not agree that this is one of those times. Just because Jay is in a bad spot does not mean he should resort to this.

It might be in poor taste to name and shame and believe me I did nt do it lightly. What I posted last night was probably one of the nastiest things I have ever done on someone in my life and I got no thrill from it nor am i proud of the thread. But I had my reasons.......

These reasons were nothing to do with me being in a ''bad spot'' but one of principle. I got seriously fkd around by the guy and maybe just maybe in a sick kinda way he might realise something and tell himself he does have issues to deal with.

fabsoul · 11-05-2008 10:20pm

I think he's right to name and shame, it let people know not to lend to this guy. There still a link to he pokerdb on the forum

Jayminator · 11-05-2008 10:20pm

cardshark202 wrote: »

Woah, what about some unknowns looking at this. They might believe it! You bastard

IT WAS Re...........Woah I cant do that..............No Reggie we all know it was NOT your good self

11-05-2008 10:23pm

Jayminator wrote: »

It might be in poor taste to name and shame and believe me I did nt do it lightly. What I posted last night was probably one of the nastiest things I have ever done on someone in my life and I got no thrill from it nor am i proud of the thread. But I had my reasons.......

These reasons were nothing to do with me being in a ''bad spot'' but one of principle. I got seriously fkd around by the guy and maybe just maybe in a sick kinda way he might realise something and tell himself he does have issues to deal with.

Having read everything I still think that in principle name and shame is wrong but in this instance you may be justified. It's a pretty rough situation. I don't hold it against you Jay, but in general I disagree with it.

Jayminator · 11-05-2008 10:38pm

Shortstack wrote: »

At the moment Jay there is very little chance of you getting any cash back. As I found out recently the amount owed is far too much to expect any return. You should just hope people keep staking him as it is the only chance you have of getting anything back which means the thread you posted has just jeopardised any chance you have of getting your cash back.

Mike your above post is 1 of the reasons I put the thread up. I actually did resign myself to losing the money until I heard he was being bailed out and I still never got a call. (Other people received money back)..

FWIW the guy in question is a really sound person.

I know this. This is why I feel a little sick over the thread and the whole episode but ya know what Mike sound people dont do this sh**te. Sound people with a serious problem will do the dirty on ya..

Jayminator · 11-05-2008 10:44pm

a-k-47 wrote: »

all this over a tenner

lol. Ya just gotta love the humour.. Love it

Jayminator · 11-05-2008 10:54pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I would also like to add that if you do intend to out someone, you should be prepared to use your own full name, as that would only be fair.

People who play with me in Dublin know my full name. Im not hiding my full name. It just never occured to me to post my full name.

I would personally face the issue head on, i.e. wait until I see him playing

Sigh....... Do you seriously not think I tried this.

I hope your financial situation improves also.[/QUOTE]. Thank you. It will. Its just the nature of my business and the time of the year thats all but thanks anyhow.

Trippie · 11-05-2008 11:28pm

i think this thread seems to have two types of replies the first one and more common is from ppl who dont know the situation and are commenting in general. The second seems to be people who have more than a vague idea of what actually is goin on. These posts should be taken in a different light imo and listened to more than all the dross from the other bandwagoners that populate this place these days

Now I guess I can't really go on about not "outing" so to speak the person as someone mentioned to me because of my earlier actions. I do feel however that the circumstances were different than the one I was ranting on about.

This problem clearly has been an ongoing one for this person for quite a while now. There are a lot of factors unknown as to the reasons why there was no repayment. It was mentioned earlier about owing other people and there were rumors about the phone calls going around asking for no more loans to be made. I think that is a good sign as it is clear that someone is looking out for him perhaps too late though

I guess what i am trying to say is that while it is wrong to renage on the repayments( then again we are not even sure if he has renaged on them as of yet, there just might not be the funds available to repay the loan although it appears this hasnt been the case.) a thought should be spared for the person himself as i doubt any of the people on this forum could contemplate the loses that this person in particular suffered over a short period a while back. The strain of this must have affected him quite a lot and perhaps hasnt been thinking straight since.

just my 2c

SpencerJames · 11-05-2008 11:40pm

I'v been reading through this with alot of disbelief. Most of the posters on here don't know the situation that Jay brought up at all. To say that it was an irrational thing for Jay to do and that he should of taken other sublte lines is naive in the extreme. Do you not think that this was a post by a man who had tried everything. A post by a man, who had given the benefit of the doubt too many times and that had been "cool" bout the situation and was now at his last resort?

Since I'v been around the Dublin poker scene which is only the last year I have been appauled by the amount of people borrowing money and lending money. It is one thing for you to have no cash on your person and ask a friend for a few quid to play a cash game after busting out of a tournament etc. But to ask for money and in alot of cases like this one, ask for a substantial amount in order to keep playing is wrong and stinks of degenercy. Now I know alot of people on here have both borrowed and given money to keep playing and would disagree on the basis that the poker world is built on money exchanging hands in good faith. Well that is all well and good but I continually hear that money has not been paid back. This is a problem, a cancer on our poker society and such people should be ostricized in my opinion as they give poker a bad name and let it live up to its seedy underground sterotype that people have struggled to remove. In my opinon Jay could of made a breakthrough here and that more people should be encouraged to feel that they can name people if they think it will help get there money back. Scary thought for all you sick individuals who leech off trusting and good people. You know who you are, railing the big cash games and final tables. " you coming out for a smoke" etc. You should seek help and now be scared because people will no longer keep quiet about this nasty plague on the poker world.

I know Jay and he is a stand up guy, this was his last resort and I know he wouldn't of felt good doing this. It was merely to warn people about the dangers of lending money and to this person especially. Also he thought that it might shame him into repaying the loan and if not maybe he might realsie that he has a problem and seek help. I dont think it was bad form and certainly not a dicision he made lightly.

Naming and Shaming bad debts = bad form?

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