Naming and Shaming bad debts = bad form?

Tribezz · 10-05-2008 10:55pm

eggie wrote: »

If you lend someone money in good grace, morality and personal judgement normally dictates repayment, obviously this is not the case.

The fact of the matter is, if repayment is not forthcoming then the amount credited is the cost of getting that person out of your life so that you will not incur future costs of same. The price you pay is dependent upon your initial judgement of character.

You missed the step where personal judgement should dicate YOU DONOT LEND GAMBLERS(sorry poker players) MONEY!!:rolleyes:

Jayminator · 10-05-2008 10:59pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Well all I can say is that I personally retrieved moneys owed to me from a crack addict when I lived in the US, and I did not have to tell everybody about it either.

This is not a joke btw. And clearly I didn't know he was a junkie when I gave him the money.

I personally believe that those who do not have the stones to get their money back are the ones who get stung.
They go around talking behind peoples backs but not to their face as they would lead to you believe they did.

In answer to your comments in the locked thread Mr Eagle Eye. Fistly you dont know me nor do I know you, However I believe myself to be a throughly decent human being who would not post such a thread before I had not exhausted other avenues. You are entitled to your opinion about me and the thread I posted but to be honest I dont really care what your thoughts are of me.

The person in question does indeed have gambling issues and for that he needs help. The gambling issue I can understand and if the person came to me and said he was broke etc etc etc it would never have gone this far. My post serves 2 purposes, Firstly to shame the guy into possibly admitting he has a serious problem and secondly to ensure no other person lends him money ever again. There have been phone calls made around Dublin by someone asking people not to lend him money anymore.

I am also going through a difficult time financially (In business not poker) at the moment and I am not embarrassed to say it so I need this money repaid plain and simple. However when you have been made an eejit of on more than 1 occasion and have demanded the money back personnally on more than 1 occasion and been ignored then I resorted to the public thread.

A lot of this sh**te goes on in card rooms all over Dublin and I bet there are plenty of posters on this forum who are owed money and whom now believe they will never get that money back from whomever they lent it to. As I said in my post I still do have people in poker who I would help out if they were stuck but not to the extent or the amount that I lent this person. It was much more than a ''monkey'' by the way.

I previously resigned myself to the money being lost to a complete gambling degenerate and decided to put it down to experience but when I hear the guy is still playing live and online regularly and ignoring my requests I decided fk that I want the money back.

People who know me well through poker will know that this was indeed a last resort and I will not apologise for my thread as I will also treat Mr XYZ with the same contempt as he has treated my good nature. My generousity was taken advantage of in this case and I do not like nor will I tolerate eing made an idiot of.

And to end this post Mr Eagle I dont really want your respect as I ve never ever met you and well done on your confrontation with your cack addict. You are my hero

Ollieboy · 10-05-2008 11:00pm

the best lend I ever gave was to a ex, it was for 500 to help her pay her credit card at the time, I never heard from her again, cheapest way to get rid of someone I reckon....lol

ollyk1 · 10-05-2008 11:04pm

Obviously this is a dangerous area for boards however given what I'd heard (only a few months ago so it may not be generally known by everyone as it was a surprise to me) then it seems Jay is on a long list.

Please remember its not slander if its true. lol at all this talk of owing a monkey or whatever and it being bad form to publicily out someone when you are owed serious cash. We're not talking about staking some busto online degens to play some 10 dollar tournie here.

I personally would never lend anyone in poker serious cash as a lot of people have serious financial problems that you just don't know about. The fact they are asking for cash at all is the first bad signal in my book.

Jayminator · 10-05-2008 11:18pm

NickyOD wrote: »

The problem is there are always two sides to every story and it often becomes a grey area as to who who owes who what and how much and what went on in the past before this loan was given.

If you're gona' name and shame the guy when he is just flat broke and has no way to pay then it's bad form, but if he's clearly capable of paying and doesn't then I guess it's okay.

Nicky,
if I believed him to be flat broke then I dont open my mouth. However when I hear he is being bailed out by someone and I still dont get repaid then fk em. When I hear he is still playing online and live and I still dont get repaid then fk em too. And when I hear he is still out boozing it up with his buddies fk em again

There are no 2 sides to this story. Story is I lent out money and demanded it back in the nicest way I could and was given bulls**t excuses.

Goodluck2me · 10-05-2008 11:20pm

nicnicnic wrote: »

does Joe owe you money to Ollie

Was it just when you went bald that you got bitter, or was it something you grew up with?

mormank wrote: »

well i am owed money from two different ppl for over 18 months now. i did not lend them the money. instead it was wages that i was owed that i never got. both still play regularly and are very well known galway players that still play on the circuit but just refuse to give me what im owed cos im very rarely in galway.

what do i do here??

Ring Poker events?

Ollieboy wrote: »

Not money, but defo some decent hands, terrible dealer and no loyalty to people from his own county...

I'll have you know I give Nicky O D and Padraig P very good cards in the day, none of this ex-pat rubbish, you barely have the accent, at least Padraig is famous.

Goodluck2me · 10-05-2008 11:22pm

To be serious though, its never an easy situation to be a lender, you are put under pressure to give it in the first place, and then made feel a ar$ehole for asking it back.
Shying away from lending is generally the best way, I remember someone asked me to take money off my credit card in the casino one night, could'nt believe the cheek.
Fair enough helping out friends in close time, but lending to someone to play is generally a bad idea, and best to stay away from.

nicnicnic · 10-05-2008 11:27pm

goodluck2me wrote: »

Was it just when you went bald that you got bitter, or was it something you grew up with?

thats just great you welch on a bet, start a tread about it and then abuse me because of a genetic defect and question my development as a person; man what a insect you really are

Jayminator · 10-05-2008 11:28pm

jbravado wrote: »

I have written off money in the past but I would never out them, I sympathise with WANTING to but think it lacks a little class. I owe a few people loots at the moment (its in the post) and if they really were stuck for it I would ensure I got the loots from somewhere. As a rule if I have to ask for money back I wouldnt lend to that person again.

Sammy your next...Jokin ffs... Anyhow yes I agree it lacks class but what can ya do eh

LuckyLloyd · 10-05-2008 11:41pm

This post has been deleted.

The Al Lad · 10-05-2008 11:47pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Well all I can say is that I personally retrieved moneys owed to me from a crack addict when I lived in the US, and I did not have to tell everybody about it either.

This is not a joke btw. And clearly I didn't know he was a junkie when I gave him the money.

I personally believe that those who do not have the stones to get their money back are the ones who get stung.
They go around talking behind peoples backs but not to their face as they would lead to you believe they did.

Wait until Yuletired see's what you said about him

eagle eye · 10-05-2008 11:59pm

The Al Lad wrote: »

Wait until Yuletired see's what you said about him

I really thought it was cryptic enough for nobody to notice.:D

Ollieboy · 11-05-2008 12:11am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yes there are always two sides to each story, but I must say that I am finding Jay's side as put forth in this thread to be very convincing.

Jeez I hope your never put up for jury duty, heard one story and thats it, Guilty going home to play poker or watch telly.

I dont know where people are coming from with 2 sides to each story, you lend money to a friend, not a *** stranger, which I think ??? is besides the poker friendship. Was Jay wrong to lend, well yes he knows that now, was he right to ask for it back, yes. Is the person wrong to refuse to give it back, of course he his. Dont know how there's to sides, lend, get back, its really simple.

eagle eye · 11-05-2008 12:17am

Jayminator wrote: »

In answer to your comments in the locked thread Mr Eagle Eye. Fistly you dont know me nor do I know you, However I believe myself to be a throughly decent human being who would not post such a thread before I had not exhausted other avenues. You are entitled to your opinion about me and the thread I posted but to be honest I dont really care what your thoughts are of me.

The person in question does indeed have gambling issues and for that he needs help. The gambling issue I can understand and if the person came to me and said he was broke etc etc etc it would never have gone this far. My post serves 2 purposes, Firstly to shame the guy into possibly admitting he has a serious problem and secondly to ensure no other person lends him money ever again. There have been phone calls made around Dublin by someone asking people not to lend him money anymore.

I am also going through a difficult time financially (In business not poker) at the moment and I am not embarrassed to say it so I need this money repaid plain and simple. However when you have been made an eejit of on more than 1 occasion and have demanded the money back personnally on more than 1 occasion and been ignored then I resorted to the public thread.

A lot of this sh**te goes on in card rooms all over Dublin and I bet there are plenty of posters on this forum who are owed money and whom now believe they will never get that money back from whomever they lent it to. As I said in my post I still do have people in poker who I would help out if they were stuck but not to the extent or the amount that I lent this person. It was much more than a ''monkey'' by the way.

I previously resigned myself to the money being lost to a complete gambling degenerate and decided to put it down to experience but when I hear the guy is still playing live and online regularly and ignoring my requests I decided fk that I want the money back.

People who know me well through poker will know that this was indeed a last resort and I will not apologise for my thread as I will also treat Mr XYZ with the same contempt as he has treated my good nature. My generousity was taken advantage of in this case and I do not like nor will I tolerate eing made an idiot of.

And to end this post Mr Eagle I dont really want your respect as I ve never ever met you and well done on your confrontation with your cack addict. You are my hero

Firstly if you had put up a post something like this and not mentioned a name, I would not have been against you.

Its tough when something like this happens but I don't like this outing someone on a forum where there are countless unknowns reading your post and from who knows where.

I do understand that its not nice to be owed money by someone who shows total disrespect for you, I personally know of another individual who has carried on in the same manner as this, luckily I got my money back off him but there are many who have not.

I would also like to add that if you do intend to out someone, you should be prepared to use your own full name, as that would only be fair.

I would personally face the issue head on, i.e. wait until I see him playing in a cash game and call him aside and request my money right there and then, and if he does not deliver, I would inform him that I will be waiting until he cashes out and let him know he will not be leaving without making at least a part payment on what I am owed.

Finally, this post is more explanatory than the other one, and I will take back most of what I posted in the 'heat of the moment' on the original thread.

I hope your financial situation improves also.

ianmc38 · 11-05-2008 12:31am

Jay has every right to let people know this information. I don't know who it is, but he/she is obviously a degenerate gambler and needs help by the sounds of things.

11-05-2008 12:47am

If you choose to lend money to someone then that is a private arrangement between the two of you. Yes, you may be put in an awkward spot when someone asks you but if you have not got the strength of character to refuse them then you must accept the risks inherently involved in lending money to people where you have no legal recourse to get the money returned to you.

Using a public forum for a name and shame is frankly reprehensible. No matter how annoyed you may be at his failure to repay you, you would be better served by confronting him in public than using this method.

I am not saying you do not deserve your money back. I hope you do get it back, but surely there was a better way of going about it than this?

tipp86 · 11-05-2008 12:51am

Really think hes right in naming and shaming but do it by mouth he should have known it was never going to be allowed for here.

mormank · 11-05-2008 12:53am

goodluck2me wrote: »

Was it just when you went bald that you got bitter, or was it something you grew up with?

Ring Poker events?

I'll have you know I give Nicky O D and Padraig P very good cards in the day, none of this ex-pat rubbish, you barely have the accent, at least Padraig is famous.

true poker events are one of the debts i speak of. but the other is my old boss in the glod club in limerick. it was far more under handed imo and he took advantage of my naivity at the time and my good nature. asked several times for it back but to of no avail, also more than a monkey!! and twas wages mostly

eagle eye · 11-05-2008 12:55am

ianmc38 wrote: »

Jay has every right to let people know this information. I don't know who it is, but he/she is obviously a degenerate gambler and needs help by the sounds of things.

Naming and shaming on a public forum is not the way to go about helping someone with a serious addiction. This does not help anyone not the creditor nor debtor. The creditor came on here and got lambasted by a few people, and I'm sure that he is not happy about that. The debtor will undoubtedly hear about this, and who knows how he will take that news.
So tell me now what good has it done?

mormank · 11-05-2008 12:58am

Deleted User wrote: »

If you choose to lend money to someone then that is a private arrangement between the two of you. Yes, you may be put in an awkward spot when someone asks you but if you have not got the strength of character to refuse them then you must accept the risks inherently involved in lending money to people where you have no legal recourse to get the money returned to you.

Using a public forum for a name and shame is frankly reprehensible. No matter how annoyed you may be at his failure to repay you, you would be better served by confronting him in public than using this method.

I am not saying you do not deserve your money back. I hope you do get it back, but surely there was a better way of going about it than this?

i would have to completely disagree with this im afraid. especially after how certain ppl have been treated on public forums with name calling and abuse leading to lives being taken etc...naming and shaming is something im afraid you will have to put up with if you are a shameless d@@khead about not payin back debts..to say it is reprehensible or whatever is simply overstating it imo, i say public stoning personally.

you have obviously never been jay's position

eagle eye · 11-05-2008 1:00am

mormank wrote: »

i would have to completely disagree with this im afraid. especially after how certain ppl have been treated on public forums with name calling and abuse leading to lives being taken etc...naming and shaming is something im afraid you will have to put up with if you are a shameless d@@khead about not payin back debts..to say it is reprehensible or whatever is simply overstating it imo, i say public stoning personally.

you have obviously never been jay's position

Yeah well I have, and you are talking nonsense.

kakak1 · 11-05-2008 1:04am

eagle eye wrote: »

Firstly if you had put up a post something like this and not mentioned a name, I would not have been against you.

Its tough when something like this happens but I don't like this outing someone on a forum where there are countless unknowns reading your post and from who knows where.

I do understand that its not nice to be owed money by someone who shows total disrespect for you, I personally know of another individual who has carried on in the same manner as this, luckily I got my money back off him but there are many who have not.

I would also like to add that if you do intend to out someone, you should be prepared to use your own full name, as that would only be fair.

I would personally face the issue head on, i.e. wait until I see him playing in a cash game and call him aside and request my money right there and then, and if he does not deliver, I would inform him that I will be waiting until he cashes out and let him know he will not be leaving without making at least a part payment on what I am owed.

Finally, this post is more explanatory than the other one, and I will take back most of what I posted in the 'heat of the moment' on the original thread.

I hope your financial situation improves also.

Would it not be better to send a request for his money when sending a birthday or Christmas Card.

Eagle Eye cop on, get with it. It is very obvious (and I have no idea who either of these people are) that Jayminator has gone through all the channels to try to get what is rightfully his & is long overdue to him.

I think it is absolutely dispicable that this fellow is still playing poker.

Jayminator is right to name & shame if it gets him his money back. What a cheek he has to owe money & continue to play & ignore Jayminator's requests.

If he is refusing to repay his debts he has to be prepared to accept the consequences.

ianmc38 · 11-05-2008 1:05am

eagle eye wrote: »

Naming and shaming on a public forum is not the way to go about helping someone with a serious addiction. This does not help anyone not the creditor nor debtor. The creditor came on here and got lambasted by a few people, and I'm sure that he is not happy about that. The debtor will undoubtedly hear about this, and who knows how he will take that news.
So tell me now what good has it done?

Well if i was a regular in a cardroom in Ireland and was being tapped up for money by someone, I'd like to know whether or not they're good for it. Given this person is an online high stakes player I'd assume he's good for it. Obviously not. While, it may have not been the ebst course of action to post here, i think it's good that people are made aware of the situation.

One of the biggest hinderances to the treatment of addictions is the person ignoring the problem. Hopefully, this fiasco will help them gather some self-awareness and do something about it.

Anyway, I dont want to get involved in any more of this thread.

eagle eye · 11-05-2008 1:07am

kakak1 wrote: »

Would it not be better to send a request for his money when sending a birthday or Christmas Card.

Eagle Eye cop on, get with it. It is very obvious (and I have no idea who either of these people are) that Jayminator has gone through all the channels to try to get what is rightfully his & is long overdue to him.

I think it is absolutely dispicable that this fellow is still playing poker.

Jayminator is right to name & shame if it gets him his money back. What a cheek he has to owe money & continue to play & ignore Jayminator's requests.

If he is refusing to repay his debts he has to be prepared to accept the consequences.

I'm just wondering if you read my post before quoting it and responding to it.

mormank · 11-05-2008 1:07am

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah well I have, and you are talking nonsense.

its not nonsense my friend...i think each to their own on this one. just because you or one or two other ppl dont think its appropriate doesnt make it gospel. if someone simply will not repay a debt and every other avenue has been exhausted i think he is 'fair game' im afraid. after that who is to say what is the correct route to take.

The Al Lad · 11-05-2008 1:10am

mormank wrote: »

true poker events are one of the debts i speak of. but the other is my old boss in the glod club in limerick. it was far more under handed imo and he took advantage of my naivity at the time and my good nature. asked several times for it back but to of no avail, also more than a monkey!! and twas wages mostly

I didn't know you were an alter boy ???

mormank · 11-05-2008 1:13am

The Al Lad wrote: »

I didn't know you were an alter boy ???

lol. im not. but back when i took my first baby steps into this seedy world of poker and whores i was extremely naive about it all and was taken advantage of and....wait, i do sound like an alter boy!!!

11-05-2008 1:14am

mormank wrote: »

i would have to completely disagree with this im afraid. especially after how certain ppl have been treated on public forums with name calling and abuse leading to lives being taken etc...naming and shaming is something im afraid you will have to put up with if you are a shameless d@@khead about not payin back debts..to say it is reprehensible or whatever is simply overstating it imo, i say public stoning personally.

you have obviously never been jay's position

I can accept your view. I do not think that comparing this to the Brandi thing is comparing like with like though.

IMO it is in poor taste and very bad form to name and shame. Perhaps there are times when it is acceptable but I do not agree that this is one of those times. Just because Jay is in a bad spot does not mean he should resort to this.

You are right I have never been in Jay's situation but I would never have loaned such a serious sum of money to someone I didn't trust completely.

kincsem · 11-05-2008 1:18am

Best to refuse any requests. I twice gave buy-ins to someone, who developed goldfish memory about the first two subs when I refused a third request. They won a four figure sum, but no offer to repay.

Lazare · 11-05-2008 1:21am

I think he's right to name and shame, because I love the drama of it all. I don't know the guy in question personally, so I'm not offended in any way.

If it was me that was named and shamed I'd be pissed, but it's not, so I don't care about the morality of it.

Popcorn threads are what make this forum exciting imo, who cares who gets hurt? So long as it's not me. imo.

Naming and Shaming bad debts = bad form?

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