Captain Marvel (2019)

Slydice · 17-05-2019 10:18pm

post-credits online:

Kermit.de.frog · 20-05-2019 2:34am

Brie Larson seems to rub people up the wrong way.

Apparently she is not liked generally among the other MCU cast either. Interview clips would appear to back this up!

Be surprised if they get the reported 7 movies with her involvement.

She just seems an unlikeable person.

And having an unlikeable person play a character that needs to establish a fan base quickly seems like not a winning formula.

Movie itself is fine and keeps up the high standard of MCU movies.

Fysh · 20-05-2019 8:05am

Given the playground level of gossip around Larson and the MCU, it would precisely as believable if I said "Kermit.de.frog seems to rub people up the wrong way and threads seem to back that up", etc etc. For my money, at least.

No idea where this "she's a bitch" narrative came from, but given she's a great actor I couldn't care less. It seems unlikely to me that this narrative is entirely unrelated to the spate of "a woman said something, and now all our d*cks have fallen off" reactionary nonsense that followed the Captain Marvel film itself.

20-05-2019 8:49am

Fysh wrote: »

Given the playground level of gossip around Larson and the MCU, it would precisely as believable if I said "Kermit.de.frog seems to rub people up the wrong way and threads seem to back that up", etc etc. For my money, at least.

No idea where this "she's a bitch" narrative came from, but given she's a great actor I couldn't care less. It seems unlikely to me that this narrative is entirely unrelated to the spate of "a woman said something, and now all our d*cks have fallen off" reactionary nonsense that followed the Captain Marvel film itself.

Not in that film, don't know if it was her/direction/script but hated that version of Danvers

pixelburp · 20-05-2019 10:46am

Fysh wrote: »

Given the playground level of gossip around Larson and the MCU, it would precisely as believable if I said "Kermit.de.frog seems to rub people up the wrong way and threads seem to back that up", etc etc. For my money, at least.

No idea where this "she's a bitch" narrative came from, but given she's a great actor I couldn't care less. It seems unlikely to me that this narrative is entirely unrelated to the spate of "a woman said something, and now all our d*cks have fallen off" reactionary nonsense that followed the Captain Marvel film itself.

I have sketchy info as I've only seen her comments in passing, and some of that is snark from RedLetterMedia lol, but I think the backlash against Larsen is that she has come off as clumsily self-righteous, in the manner of your Clooney or Matt Damon fadó fadó.

She has ... I dunno, 'whitesplained' racial discrimination to a black interviewer, and made big speeches that films such as A Wrinkle in Time bombed because critics are all white men (as RLM points out, these same white men championed progressive films such as Moonlight or Tangerine), and I think even tried to reframe a clumsy chatting up in a bar as #metoo adjacent (this is where my own knowledge wobbles, so open to clarification. Seemed like more Aziz Ansari than Weinstein).

Obviously none of that speaks to her relationship with costars, but broadly speaking It seems like she made herself look overly earnest but a bit tone deaf, a quintessential Hollywood or Californian liberal stereotype in the eyes of some. I'd say her heart is in the right place but seems like jumps in with two feet compared with her contemporaries. The Guardians cast did far more, with less words, when they stood up for James Gunn.

Doctor DooM · 20-05-2019 11:20am

pixelburp wrote: »

I have sketchy info as I've only seen her comments in passing, and some of that is snark from RedLetterMedia lol, but I think the backlash against Larsen is that she has come off as clumsily self-righteous, in the manner of your Clooney or Matt Damon fadó fadó.

She has ... I dunno, 'whitesplained' racial discrimination to a black interviewer, and made big speeches that films such as A Wrinkle in Time bombed because critics are all white men (as RLM points out, these same white men championed progressive films such as Moonlight or Tangerine), and I think even tried to reframe a clumsy chatting up in a bar as #metoo adjacent (this is where my own knowledge wobbles, so open to clarification. Seemed like more Aziz Ansari than Weinstein).

Obviously none of that speaks to her relationship with costars, but broadly speaking It seems like she made herself look overly earnest but a bit tone deaf, a quintessential Hollywood or Californian liberal stereotype in the eyes of some. I'd say her heart is in the right place but seems like jumps in with two feet compared with her contemporaries. The Guardians cast did far more, with less words, when they stood up for James Gunn.

Overly earnest and slightly eye-rolly is exactly where I'd put it. This being the internet of 2019 though, a loud minority seems determined that battle lines should be drawn over it.

Kermit.de.frog · 20-05-2019 11:50am

Aside from the injection of her politics she just seems miscast here.

To me she does not fit the character. Her performance at best is stale and uninterested. She seems to have the same "angry mum" look throughout the whole movie.

She just isn't that good here.

Maybe it will improve. Doubt it.

Compare her character to Black Widow/SJ who was brilliantly cast. Point made?

Larson and Captain Marvel are nowhere near as interesting.

Sad Professor · 20-05-2019 11:54am

I haven't seen Captain Marvel yet, but I thought she was terrible in Endgame. I was surprised as I always found her a good actress. Am I right in saying she shot her part in Endgame first? Maybe that partially accounts for it.

Lithium93_ · 20-05-2019 12:14pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

I haven't seen Captain Marvel yet, but I thought she was terrible in Endgame. I was surprised as I always found her a good actress. Am I right in saying she shot her part in Endgame first? Maybe that partially accounts for it.

You are correct, she shot her scenes in Endgame first before the script for Captain Marvel was done, and a quick google search says as much.

https://ie.ign.com/articles/2019/04/07/brie-larson-filmed-avengers-endgame-before-captain-marvel

https://www.accessonline.com/articles/brie-larson-filmed-avengers-endgame-before-she-knew-she-was-captain-marvel

From the accessonline article

I flew to Atlanta to start shooting, had no idea what I was doing, and I arrived and they gave me a piece of paper…that had a full page of dialogue and action but all of it was redacted except for my one line

bucketybuck · 20-05-2019 12:18pm

It was the after-credits scene from Infinity war that she shot before the Captain Marevel film, not her scenes from Endgame. Hence the "one line".

Lithium93_ · 20-05-2019 12:21pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

It was the after-credits scene from Infinity war that she shot before the Captain Marevel film, not her scenes from Endgame. Hence the "one line".

Well either way she was literally thrown into the deep end.

Calhoun · 20-05-2019 2:59pm

She was also the odd one out in end game, every other active hero took part in the majority of the film and her contribution was short.

I understand why they had to do it due to the power dynamic but it didn't help her character development.

dingdong1234567 · 20-05-2019 4:52pm

Fysh wrote: »

Given the playground level of gossip around Larson and the MCU, it would precisely as believable if I said "Kermit.de.frog seems to rub people up the wrong way and threads seem to back that up", etc etc. For my money, at least.

No idea where this "she's a bitch" narrative came from, but given she's a great actor I couldn't care less. It seems unlikely to me that this narrative is entirely unrelated to the spate of "a woman said something, and now all our d*cks have fallen off" reactionary nonsense that followed the Captain Marvel film itself.

Common sense! Spot on.

Lithium93_ · 20-05-2019 4:54pm

Calhoun wrote: »

She was also the odd one out in end game, every other active hero took part in the majority of the film and her contribution was short.

I understand why they had to do it due to the power dynamic but it didn't help her character development.

Wouldn't have been much of a film if Captain Marvel did it all by herself. Though a handy secret weapon to have when **** started going sideways in the rubble of Avengers HQ.

Kermit.de.frog · 20-05-2019 4:55pm

Agree. Also how can you have compelling character development with a character who basically only gets stronger and has no weaknesses??

She is so flawless all she has to do is show up and....roll credits.

Exciting eh?

Lithium93_ · 20-05-2019 5:00pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Agree. Also how can you have compelling character development with a character who basically only gets stronger and has no weaknesses??

She is so flawless all she has to do is show up and....roll credits.

Exciting eh?

Same could be said for Hulk, madder he gets, the stronger he gets.

Though we haven't really seen that much bar being manipulated by Scarlet Witch in Age Of Ultron - But he got an arc across the films, and not just the mindless rampaging secret weapon in the back pocket.

Baggly · 20-05-2019 5:05pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Agree. Also how can you have compelling character development with a character who basically only gets stronger and has no weaknesses??

She is so flawless all she has to do is show up and....roll credits.

Exciting eh?

Do what they do in the comics (CW2). Make her the villain.

Calhoun · 20-05-2019 5:06pm

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Wouldn't have been much of a film if Captain Marvel did it all by herself. Though a handy secret weapon to have when **** started going sideways in the rubble of Avengers HQ.

I know but that is fundamentally why she seems off in the film, the only way for her to have played a part is if they could de-power her or something not by much but enough to bring her in line with the others.

I don't know who will be the lead in the MCU going forward but unless they flesh her story out more i find it hard to think it will be her. If i was to pick a female lead i would want to see more of it would be Scarlet Witch.

Kermit.de.frog · 20-05-2019 5:14pm

Lithium93_ wrote: »

and not just the mindless rampaging secret weapon in the back pocket.

I don't like what they did with Hulk myself. He is supposed to be uncontrollable rage.

Instead, and I don't want to get in to it really, but the poison had to be put in there eventually because we can't be having such uncontrolled masculinity these days.

Now Hulk has to care and be careful who he breaks up and be thoughtful and considerate...

Not the characteristics that made Hulk popular. You have Banner for that.

I'm sure some don't mind but can't see Hulk fans being that impressed.

Baggly · 20-05-2019 5:19pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I don't like what they did with Hulk myself. He is supposed to be uncontrollable rage.

Instead, and I don't want to get in to it really, but the poison had to be put in there eventually because we can't be having such uncontrolled masculinity these days.

Now Hulk has to care and be careful who he breaks up and be thoughtful and considerate...

Not the characteristics that made Hulk popular. You have Banner for that.

I'm sure some don't mind but can't see Hulk fans being that impressed.

Prof. Hulk first appeared in the comics in 1991. Its a well established part of the character that he retains the Hulks strength and Banners intellect. I dont know why modern gender politics have to come into it.

Mitch Connor · 20-05-2019 5:24pm

Pter wrote: »

Prof. Hulk first appeared in the comics in 1991. Its a well established part of the character that he retains the Hulks strength and Banners intellect. I dont know why modern gender politics have to come into it.

Because some people want to see everything as an attack and don't care about the reality of the situation.

Toxic masculinity. FFS.

Calhoun · 20-05-2019 5:34pm

Pter wrote: »

Prof. Hulk first appeared in the comics in 1991. Its a well established part of the character that he retains the Hulks strength and Banners intellect. I dont know why modern gender politics have to come into it.

I loved professor hulk and as said by Ruffalo himself, they intentionally developed him through Infinity and Endgame in lieu of a film of his own.

I am also perplexed what is has to do with social justice politics. I felt it was handled very well and really great character development for Banner.

pixelburp · 20-05-2019 5:35pm

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Overly earnest and slightly eye-rolly is exactly where I'd put it. This being the internet of 2019 though, a loud minority seems determined that battle lines should be drawn over it.

Oh invariably it became a battleground, but feels like Larsen can sit alongside Serena Williams as folk whose actions just made things worse. Good intentioned maybe, but picked the wrong target, executed horribly & ultimately fed the beast against "dem liberals" cos the argument was so weak (critics are racist, the umpire was sexist)

But yeah, absolutely none of this speaks to her colleagues onset hating working with Larsen.

Kermit.de.frog · 20-05-2019 5:37pm

Pter wrote: »

I dont know why modern gender politics have to come into it.

Two words. Brie and Larson. They must have known what they were getting in the gender politics department when they cast her as Captain Marvel no less to be fair.

Her own bizarre statements really kicked all that off.

It wasn't irrate fans.

pixelburp · 20-05-2019 5:40pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I don't like what they did with Hulk myself. He is supposed to be uncontrollable rage.

Instead, and I don't want to get in to it really, but the poison had to be put in there eventually because we can't be having such uncontrolled masculinity these days.

Now Hulk has to care and be careful who he breaks up and be thoughtful and considerate...

Not the characteristics that made Hulk popular. You have Banner for that.

I'm sure some don't mind but can't see Hulk fans being that impressed.

Professor Hulk is an established character in the comics and has been tackled a few times, quite popularly too - in fact Endgame was the first film to get Hulk and Banner right. It's a fairly obvious plot arc for a characters whose ENTIRE POINT is the duality of his existence. Maybe even a ... wait for it, Jekyll and Hyde persona perhaps?

Nothing to do with politics, take a breath.

Baggly · 20-05-2019 5:40pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

Two words. Brie and Larson. They must have known what they were getting in the gender politics department when they cast her as Captain Marvel no less to be fair.

So hulk is guilty by association?

Kermit.de.frog · 20-05-2019 5:48pm

Pter wrote: »

So hulk is guilty by association?

Not at first. I don't recall people complaining.

And I personally couldn't care less as I have never been a big Hulk fan.

But when the person who is annointed apparently (though we'll see how long it lasts) to take it all forward as the lead makes the kind of statements she does then naturally it makes people retrospectively consider whether there is an agenda.

She is the one digging although it wouldn't surprise me at all if in private she has gotten a little wrap on the knuckles by the studio to be a bit more measured in her statements.

Baggly · 20-05-2019 5:50pm

I think you are making false equivalences and filling in the gaps to suit your viewpoint but that's your right. I just disagree with you tying the Prof hulk character to gender politics.

pixelburp · 20-05-2019 5:51pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Not at first. I don't recall people complaining.

And I personally couldn't care less as I have never been a big Hulk fan.

And if you were, you would have known that Professor Hulk was an interesting spin on the character who has informed many iterations since 1991. That actual fans were over the moon when he appeared. But no, let's blather about agendas some more, that's always fun.

Lithium93_ · 20-05-2019 5:53pm

I enjoyed the Professor Hulk reveal in Endgame, even though I've no knowledge of the comics, but put 2+2 together eventually.

johnny_ultimate · 20-05-2019 5:59pm

Brie Larson is an immensely talented actress, and her past work is more impressive than a lot of the MCU regulars (although Unicorn Store shows she mightn’t be quite as confident behind the camera yet

). I cannot speak for her personality, and certainly not going to judge her one way or the other based on gossip. Would certainly agree she’s made a few naive or cringey public remarks.

But there is a problem in the US with prominent, influential women being dismissed as ‘unlikeable’. You see it a lot with Elizabeth Warren, for example. There does tend to be something of a gender imbalance when it comes to this. I mean, Ruffalo, Evans and Cheadle are all consistently outspoken - sometimes awkwardly so, and usually in that same ‘Hollywood liberal’ way (although Ruffalo seems more firmly aligned to the left). But definitely haven’t seen them come under as much scrutiny as Larson. Add to that the usual raging sexists on YouTube and the like doing their best to distort the conversation - lending an undercurrent of bad faith to many of these debates. I’ve seen at least one YouTube channel with seemingly dozens of videos attacking Larson or this film to the point of creepy derangement.

Again, I’m not in a position to verify any of the rumours or speculation about Larson - it’s any of our guesses what she’s like in person. Captain Marvel isn’t her finest hour as an actress, mostly down to the material. But she has faced far more backlash and scrutiny than any MCU cast members before her under flimsy pretexts. That’s more a general observation about the general online conversation than anything here, I hasten to add.

Kermit.de.frog · 20-05-2019 6:11pm

pixelburp wrote: »

And if you were, you would have known that Professor Hulk was an interesting spin on the character who has informed many iterations since 1991. That actual fans were over the moon when he appeared. But no, let's blather about agendas some more, that's always fun.

It's your right to disagree.

Again when you parachute a new character in and that actress makes the statements she makes about "white men" even if you fundamentally disagree about agendas you must acknowledge it is at best a foolish thing to do.

pixelburp · 20-05-2019 6:19pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's your right to disagree.

Again when you parachute a new character in and that actress makes the statements she makes about "white men" even if you fundamentally disagree about agendas you must acknowledge it is at best a foolish thing to do.

It's not a new character. The blurring lines between Hulk and Banner were there in Ragnorok (hell arguably since 2012 and the fantastic "I'm always angry" admission), and like I said has existed since 91 as a very beloved character most fans were hoping would appear. Getting whalloped by Thanos was obviously a path towards the two sides finally finding some commonality.

Up until then Hulk was a brainless battering ram, or agent of chaos for contrived infighting (see Age of Ultron). Talk to a fan of Hulk and they'll say "there's more to him than a raging Jeckyll knock off." Nothing was parachuted, Hulk was vastly underwritten.

You obviously have some bee in your bonnet about Larsen but conflating that with a boilerplate character is borderline conspiracy theory. And just incorrect.

20-05-2019 6:23pm

this was ok, larsen is good, the feminism doesnt spoil it

they struggled badly with how to handle her powers in endgame but thats the nature of it

Calhoun · 20-05-2019 6:24pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Brie Larson is an immensely talented actress, and her past work is more impressive than a lot of the MCU regulars (although Unicorn Store shows she mightn’t be quite as confident behind the camera yet ). I cannot speak for her personality, and certainly not going to judge her one way or the other based on gossip. Would certainly agree she’s made a few naive or cringey public remarks.

But there is a problem in the US with prominent, influential women being dismissed as ‘unlikeable’. You see it a lot with Elizabeth Warren, for example. There does tend to be something of a gender imbalance when it comes to this. I mean, Ruffalo, Evans and Cheadle are all consistently outspoken - sometimes awkwardly so, and usually in that same ‘Hollywood liberal’ way (although Ruffalo seems more firmly aligned to the left). But definitely haven’t seen them come under as much scrutiny as Larson. Add to that the usual raging sexists on YouTube and the like doing their best to distort the conversation - lending an undercurrent of bad faith to many of these debates. I’ve seen at least one YouTube channel with seemingly dozens of videos attacking Larson or this film to the point of creepy derangement.

Again, I’m not in a position to verify any of the rumours or speculation about Larson - it’s any of our guesses what she’s like in person. Captain Marvel isn’t her finest hour as an actress, mostly down to the material. But she has faced far more backlash and scrutiny than any MCU cast members before her under flimsy pretexts. That’s more a general observation about the general online conversation than anything here, I hasten to add.

I would say a big problem is how the American left, right and center (if it exists interact). Its a constant back and forth between both sides, i think Larson is getting it because of the publicity that the press put around the film in general and the pedestal Marvel was put on.

After that it was easier for both sides of the political argument to start point scoring based on her arguments ect.

I also think that a key factor of why she has come up against so much crap is the year that it is. The political divide in america seems to have polarized allot since the beginning of the MCU and today.

batgoat · 20-05-2019 6:25pm

pixelburp wrote: »

It's not a new character. The blurring lines between Hulk and Banner were there in Ragnorok (hell arguably since 2012 and the fantastic "I'm always angry" admission), and like I said has existed since 91 as a very beloved character most fans were hoping would appear. Getting whalloped by Thanos was obviously a path towards the two sides finally finding some commonality.

Up until then Hulk was a brainless battering ram, or agent of chaos for contrived infighting (see Age of Ultron). Talk to a fan of Hulk and they'll say "there's more to him than a raging Jeckyll knock off." Nothing was parachuted, Hulk was vastly underwritten.

You obviously have some bee in your bonnet about Larsen but conflating that with a boilerplate character is borderline conspiracy theory. And just incorrect.

If you haven't tried The Immortal Hulk yet, I'd recommend it. Plays to the horror element of the character, it's superb.

batgoat · 20-05-2019 6:25pm

pixelburp wrote: »

It's not a new character. The blurring lines between Hulk and Banner were there in Ragnorok (hell arguably since 2012 and the fantastic "I'm always angry" admission), and like I said has existed since 91 as a very beloved character most fans were hoping would appear. Getting whalloped by Thanos was obviously a path towards the two sides finally finding some commonality.

Up until then Hulk was a brainless battering ram, or agent of chaos for contrived infighting (see Age of Ultron). Talk to a fan of Hulk and they'll say "there's more to him than a raging Jeckyll knock off." Nothing was parachuted, Hulk was vastly underwritten.

You obviously have some bee in your bonnet about Larsen but conflating that with a boilerplate character is borderline conspiracy theory. And just incorrect.

If you haven't tried The Immortal Hulk yet, I'd recommend it. Plays to the horror element of the character, it's superb.

Kermit.de.frog · 20-05-2019 6:32pm

pixelburp wrote: »

It's not a new character.

I meant Captain Marvel as the new character in MCU.

Think you need to re read the post as you missed the point. It was Larson herself who stirred things up with her own statements.

It wasn't the fans or deranged people in their bedrooms.

As to being "unlikeable", obviously we only have some interviews to go on. It could be all nonsense and they get on great. Let's be real though the one with Cheadle didn't look good at all...

In terms of her portrayal in CM though leaving aside all the other stuff I didn't think she pulled it off well. I mean she was ok I guess if ok is what counts for good here. Meh.

Stop moaning ffs · 22-05-2019 7:09pm

I really enjoyed this film. And I can remember it. I’ve seen most of the mcu films and they’re great but for the most part weirdly forgettable, some of them.

This one stood out though. Maybe cos it isn’t the usual marvel cookie cutter conveyer belt thing?

Reading the thread it seems I’m mostly alone with this thinking. But horses for courses.

justinbellford · 24-05-2019 10:07pm

I Finally caught it a day or two before Endgame.

It is up there in terms of forgettable MCU movies, but is not a bad movie. Probably a 6 or 7/10 for me.

Loved Goose, though!

silverharp · 25-05-2019 8:31am

oh lordi

https://twitter.com/Androlphegax/status/1132138780255768578

android1 · 25-05-2019 8:50am

I'm guessing that's based on the T2 scene. What a load of dung.

Sad Professor · 25-05-2019 9:12am

That must have been done in reshoots in response to online complaints about Larson not smiling in the trailer. It's too on the nose not to have been. At least they had the sense not to use it. Or maybe it was done just to advertise the Blu-ray and for its meme potential.

pixelburp · 25-05-2019 10:35am

The Don?

Yikes for that alone I can see why they dropped it. All the subtly of a punch to the face. No idea if the "you should smile more" comment is known among Irish women, think it's more a noted commonality of accidental chauvinism stateside anyway.

Funny, I had thought the theatrical cut of that scene always felt wrong, as the biker was a douche but barely warranted his bike being stolen. At least here it feels more justified, as clumsy as the scene is.

Farawayhome · 25-05-2019 10:48am

What's wrong with that scene?

Calhoun · 25-05-2019 2:35pm

silverharp wrote: »

oh lordi

https://twitter.com/Androlphegax/status/1132138780255768578

Comment showing below it is hilarious lol.

https://twitter.com/MadLutian/status/1132139839544074240

Is Larson supposed to be the new lead for the MCU? they are going to have a bad time if so.

Varik · 25-05-2019 2:52pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

That must have been done in reshoots in response to online complaints about Larson not smiling in the trailer. It's too on the nose not to have been. At least they had the sense not to use it. Or maybe it was done just to advertise the Blu-ray and for its meme potential.

Scene they used wasn't much better

Acosta · 25-05-2019 4:47pm

https://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-captain-marvel/

The red letter media review is pretty much on the money.

Fairly forgettable movie and Larson was bland in the role.

the_syco · 27-05-2019 7:52pm

The bit after the credits was nice.

flazio · 27-05-2019 8:29pm

A cat coughing is nice?

Captain Marvel (2019)

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