The Offseason 2019

LuckyLloyd · 01-07-2019 7:16am

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I think they likely see it as a low risk, buy low move with a view to flipping him in the future after Klay returns. Or if he works out really well Steph’s replacement in time?

He could be trade able, but the sign and trade does mean he’s getting his max rate.

Hitch2222 · 01-07-2019 7:17am

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I think they likely see it as a low risk, buy low move with a view to flipping him in the future after Klay returns. Or if he works out really well Steph’s replacement in time?

Fantastic move by him too. I love it tbh, more for him than GSW for his development, Steph can help take him t8 another level

LuckyLloyd · 01-07-2019 7:20am

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Golden State is trading Andre Iguodala to the Memphis Grizzlies, league source tells ESPN. Warriors are sending a 2024 protected first-round pick in the 2024 (protected 1-4), 2025 (protected 1) and 2026 unprotected.

Maybe those picks won’t end up being high selections but that was expensive.

Iggy also a huge loss to them in terms of team function in the playoffs

LuckyLloyd · 01-07-2019 7:24am

Sixers:

Simmons / Richardson / Harris / Horford / Embiid

Well now

ButtersSuki · 01-07-2019 8:34am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He could be trade able, but the sign and trade does mean he’s getting his max rate.

He’s getting today’s max. Look at how things have risen even from the crazy 2016 summer to now, by the time he’s eligible for next contract his current one could look like a value contract - it’s all relative. Another crude way of looking at it is I’d rather be giving a guy aged 23 a max than a guy aged 30.

I think it’s a good return for GS (esp. considering the alternative was zero) but as Hitch alluded to a potentially great move for Russell.

2smiggy · 01-07-2019 9:17am

looking at the long term , but what do ye think of 76ers @ 10/1 at the moment ?

Could spend €1000 worse over the course of a year ....

ButtersSuki · 01-07-2019 9:28am

2smiggy wrote: »

looking at the long term , but what do ye think of 76ers @ 10/1 at the moment ?

Could spend €1000 worse over the course of a year ....

10/1 is value “fo sho” but I’m not sure I’d be putting €1k on it. They were VERY close this year, and if Embiid stays healthy who knows? Lots of risk built into it, but I like the additions. You could do a lot worse. It’s a 3/4 horse race in the East and they are there or thereabouts, they could have won it all this year and will be in the mix next year.

Hitch2222 · 01-07-2019 9:41am

2smiggy wrote: »

looking at the long term , but what do ye think of 76ers @ 10/1 at the moment ?

Could spend €1000 worse over the course of a year ....

Based on everything such as complimentary skillsets, current NBA, areas of team weakness and inability to beat him.
Is there a better pick up and subsequent combo than Embiid and Horford. I can't think of a frontcourt pairing in the past 10 years maybe even longer that's more complimentary to one another and the trajectory of the NBA in their own epoch.
They could be a scary combo.

76ers look decent but for me it comes down to two factors one internal and another external.

Internally, how do they round out the roster with no cap space and limited market for shooters. LBJ will convince a chunk of the decent vet min guys to join him so the market will be very thin.

Externally what does the new king do, if Kawhi leaves it basically means you only have to beat the Bucks, cuts your competition to get to the finals in half. If he stays then it's not as enticing.

I'd take 10s if I was convinced Kawhi leaves but if you're unsure I'd lean towards the odds being a relatively fair price.

titan18 · 01-07-2019 10:35am

Hitch2222 wrote: »

Based on everything such as complimentary skillsets, current NBA, areas of team weakness and inability to beat him.
Is there a better pick up and subsequent combo than Embiid and Horford. I can't think of a frontcourt pairing in the past 10 years maybe even longer that's more complimentary to one another and the trajectory of the NBA in their own epoch.
They could be a scary combo.

76ers look decent but for me it comes down to two factors one internal and another external.

Internally, how do they round out the roster with no cap space and limited market for shooters. LBJ will convince a chunk of the decent vet min guys to join him so the market will be very thin.

Externally what does the new king do, if Kawhi leaves it basically means you only have to beat the Bucks, cuts your competition to get to the finals in half. If he stays then it's not as enticing.

I'd take 10s if I was convinced Kawhi leaves but if you're unsure I'd lean towards the odds being a relatively fair price.

I'd still think Celtics are going to be strong. Locker room should be a bit better without Kyrie and whilst Horford is a loss, you've still got Kemba, Brown, Tatum and Hayward as starters.

If Raptors lose Kawhi, I can't see them competing for the conference. Probably be 4th or 5th seed.

Hitch2222 · 01-07-2019 11:36am

titan18 wrote: »

I'd still think Celtics are going to be strong. Locker room should be a bit better without Kyrie and whilst Horford is a loss, you've still got Kemba, Brown, Tatum and Hayward as starters.

If Raptors lose Kawhi, I can't see them competing for the conference. Probably be 4th or 5th seed.

Yeah I tend to agree on reflection. I thought Kemba was expensive but his shortcomings are not particularly when compared to Kyrie.

Kyrie is a slightly better shooter, defender and overall better player but look what Stevens got from IT so perhaps the additional camaraderie plus Hayward with an off season and the Kyrie->Kemba gap won't be as evident as on most other teams.

Certainly softened on Kemba being a bad investment.

K.O.Kiki · 01-07-2019 11:54am

Derrick Rose to the Pistons for 2 years/$15 million.

Really expected him to get a little more after his decent showing last year.

2smiggy · 01-07-2019 1:51pm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Derrick Rose to the Pistons for 2 years/$15 million.

Really expected him to get a little more after his decent showing last year.

i'd have thought he would be worth more, I suppose the history of injuries are a factor

Carcharodon · 01-07-2019 5:39pm

Hitch2222 wrote: »

What's the idea of the Russell trade a year from now though.
Steph, Klay & Russell all to start together?

I wonder given Russell is off the board now, does that mean that the Lakers fancy their chances at Kawhi.

Horford, Harris & Josh Richardson is a better combo than Harris & Butler. Pity about JJ but that's a decent return.

I think the Warriors needed to make that move in order to make the playoffs next year and I think Russel is on an upward trajectory so if they should get good value if they decide to trade him down the road.
It really sucks to see Iggy go but the Warriors needed to re tool, they looked a bit old and tired in the playoffs, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Livingston go also

The KD thing is a peculiar one, I get why a team wouldn’t want to take the risk on him but you can also see the massive upside of having him on your team. It’s just that the Nets really haven’t got better, even Kyrie is a bit of a risk in my opinion, he was a disaster last year, obviously this will be a different scenario but the I could see all this blow up in their face. Jordan is also being thrown in their as if it’s a big 3 but I think he is well past his sell by date.
I don’t think the Knicks passed on KD, more like he passed on that **** show.

Philly should be a legit contender next year

SharpshooterTom · 01-07-2019 6:23pm

Aren't we all just waiting to see if Kawhi heads to the Lakers or not?

If he doesn't, then we have at least half a dozen genuine contenders next season.

If he does then we have another superteam and the Lakers will just be akin to Mercedes in F1.

Kawhi staying at Toronto would mean a lot for the league.

K.O.Kiki · 01-07-2019 6:24pm

"Kawhi has been dealt to the Lakers!"

(6 hours later)

"The Kawhi trade has been vetoed for basketball reasons".

Carcharodon · 01-07-2019 6:28pm

Also, iggy released a new book last week and had a few bad things to say about the Warriors apparently, how they misdiagnosed one of his injuries or something along those lines. Wouldn’t be surprised he got chopped after that knowing how cut throat the NBA can be.
I think KD is choosing a lower quality team for various reasons we may never know, playing with friends, new York market, new challenge, fued with Draymond, who knows, doesn’t make basketball sense to me

Angliru · 01-07-2019 7:11pm

If I had to guess Iggy knew he was gone before he said that stuff.

Hitch2222 · 01-07-2019 7:14pm

Blazers going all in anyway. They picked up Whiteside only earns 27m, touted as a defensive monster but team better defensively when he sits

Angliru · 01-07-2019 7:18pm

Kanter to the Celtics. 10m, 2 years. Great deal.

Hitch2222 · 01-07-2019 8:05pm

Poor Butters gonna have an aneurysm when he sees the 14m per year that the Rockets are giving Rivers for the next 2 years.

Mavs pick up Seth too. Lakers need Kawhi, this FA class is getting thin.

LuckyLloyd · 01-07-2019 8:08pm

Hitch2222 wrote: »

Blazers going all in anyway. They picked up Whiteside only earns 27m, touted as a defensive monster but team better defensively when he sits

His individual defensive metrics *are* massive. Highest defensive rating per 100 possessions in the league last year, and a DPBM of 3.0.

Definitely overpaid and definitely hasn’t lived up to his potential.

Carcharodon · 01-07-2019 9:42pm

Warriors retiring Durant’s jersey, I get it but jeez seems a bit ott. I would have equal if not more admiration for what Iggy did here, doesn’t really matter I know but a little weird

Hitch2222 · 01-07-2019 10:10pm

Carcharodon wrote: »

Warriors retiring Durant’s jersey, I get it but jeez seems a bit ott. I would have equal if not more admiration for what Iggy did here, doesn’t really matter I know but a little weird

GTFO retiring his jersey, come on, I'm all for progress in all facets of the game but that's ridiculous stuff.
3 seasons with a franchise and his jersey is retired.

It's all smoke and mirrors stuff but I mean even as a player would you not be a little embarrassed taking that.

Angliru · 01-07-2019 10:47pm

Meh Kawhi is almost certainly getting a jersey retirement from Toronto even if he leaves for the Lakers now. Granted Kawhi was a complete game changer and it was such an iconic season for the franchise but I still think Durant deserves it tbh. 3 years, 3 finals, 2 titles and 2 Finals MVPs. Pretty sick tbh.

Hitch2222 · 01-07-2019 10:55pm

Angliru wrote: »

Meh Kawhi is almost certainly getting a jersey retirement from Toronto even if he leaves for the Lakers now. Granted Kawhi was a complete game changer and it was such an iconic season for the franchise but I still think Durant deserves it tbh. 3 years, 3 finals, 2 titles and 2 Finals MVPs. Pretty sick tbh.

That's fine but Nick Collison got his retired by OKC. Jersey retirement imo is more about servitude than substance in many ways.
Udonis Haslem may get his retired by the Heat for example.
I just think jersey retirement is more about longevity, ethos, community those more intangibles than skills. Obviously that's great too but 3 years just doesn't seem requisite, I suspect it's the shortest period of time bar maybe some time of ceremonial thing for any player to have his jersey retired.

Blinky Plebum · 01-07-2019 11:05pm

Jersey retirements in American sports are a load of nonsense and so common that the supposedly great gesture isn't all that great a gesture so people shouldn't read anything into anymore it's a complete load of nonsense at this stage.

Inter Milan retired Javier Zanetti and Giacinto Fachetti's jerseys, AC Milan retired Paolo Maldini and Franco Baresi's jerseys. Realistically retiring a jersey should be a massive honour and if your going to do it in any sport you should have the status at a team like the 4 players I've just mentioned.

The currency of retiring jerseys in American sports has been completely devalued over the years.

leggo · 02-07-2019 12:01am

Curry is the only one of this Warriors dynasty who should be a cert for that, if it’s going to mean anything. I’d put Klay and Draymond ahead of Durant FFS, they’d all won a ring for them before he even got there!

I dunno...I might feel differently if I was a fan because the Warriors’ dominance could wash over you at times during their run, but it seems to me Durant only kinda muddied things. They had their Toronto-style Finals win and beat the regular season win record without him. He helped make them unstoppable in the playoffs, sure, but they also lacked a real true match and his move alone contributed towards that by creating an imbalance within the league. And his presence also left them top heavy where they’d once been well-rounded and even able to cope with Curry’s injuries, which when he went down hurt led to their ultimate downfall. It’s a super weird thing for them to do the more you think about it tbh.

K.O.Kiki · 02-07-2019 12:38am

*FALSE ALARM*

Carcharodon · 02-07-2019 1:06am

It was all over the news here in the bay, I’ve just read the quote from Lacob
“As long as iam co-chairman of this team, no player will wear the no 35 for the Warriors again”
Not exactly saying they will be hanging it from the rafters, journalism at its finest.

Osmosis Jones · 02-07-2019 1:34am

On the Whiteside trade for Portland: he's a case of an overpaid player, not a bad player. What he's getting paid doesn't matter for Portland anyway because they traded matching salaries in Harkless and Leonard back to Miami, and all 3 are on expiring contracts regardless. Harkless is a bit of a loss but they've retained Hood and brought in Bazemore so the SF spot should be safe, Whiteside as a massive upgrade over Meyers Leonard and allows them to not rush Nurkic back from his broken leg.

ButtersSuki · 02-07-2019 8:32am

Hitch2222 wrote: »

Poor Butters gonna have an aneurysm when he sees the 14m per year that the Rockets are giving Rivers for the next 2 years.

Mavs pick up Seth too. Lakers need Kawhi, this FA class is getting thin.

Not at all, it’s their money and they can do what they want with it - a waste IMO but I don’t like Houston so fire away! Only way I’d react to that is if Boston paid for him.....and while an overpay at least it’s not the crazy money he’s been on for the last few years.

ButtersSuki · 02-07-2019 8:35am

What were Dallas doing re the Butler trade? Must be something going on somewhere - from not taking Dragic for free (when he’s buds with Luca), to what appears to be just acting the maggot with a view to scuppering the trade? Something’s up.

kmart6 · 02-07-2019 9:08am

Thought it was that Miami were never offering Dragic to Dallas in the first place?

ButtersSuki · 02-07-2019 9:22am

kmart6 wrote: »

Thought it was that Miami were never offering Dragic to Dallas in the first place?

First report was they offered Dragic, then that changed to Olynk and Jones Jr, now nothing. I like Dragic btw, a lot. Could do a very decent job for someone.....

Carcharodon · 02-07-2019 4:38pm

Klay Thompson posted a clip from Wolf of Wall Street, “Iam not leaving” Warrior for life, it would be phenomenal if he retired here

Osmosis Jones · 02-07-2019 5:08pm

I'm so confused by Jimmy Butler btw, forces his way out of Minnesota to join a contender, gets offered the max by that contender and decides to leave for a team in an even worse position than Minnesota.

LuckyLloyd · 02-07-2019 6:31pm

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

I'm so confused by Jimmy Butler btw, forces his way out of Minnesota to join a contender, gets offered the max by that contender and decides to leave for a team in an even worse position than Minnesota.

Gets to be the man and live in South Beach
Jimmy says he’s about dat ring, his actions say different

Carcharodon · 02-07-2019 6:54pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Gets to be the man and live in South Beach
Jimmy says he’s about dat ring, his actions say different

Yep, South beach is party central, not to jump to any conclusions but if he likes to party and hang out with beautiful women then he is home

Hitch2222 · 02-07-2019 7:33pm

Carcharodon wrote: »

Klay Thompson posted a clip from Wolf of Wall Street, “Iam not leaving” Warrior for life, it would be phenomenal if he retired here

It would be cool for him and Steph to stay but if Klay comes back to 100% which it seems reasonably possible with an ACL, I feel like there's a little bit of disappointment if he never moves to see how good he would be as a teams No1

ButtersSuki · 02-07-2019 7:40pm

Carcharodon wrote: »

Yep, South beach is party central, not to jump to any conclusions but if he likes to party and hang out with beautiful women then he is home

Joe House came out with a laugh out loud comment on the Simmons Pod re. Jimmy’s reasons for wanting to be in South Beach. It involves alliteration with the letter P and relates to the above in bold.:pac:

Also on Pods, Woj sounded absolutely shattered on his. At times he was struggling to find his train of thought and just rambling. Prob. put in some crazy hour’s last week. Ryen Rusillo was his guest, but he was in serious mode - not the jokey guy you get on his own or when he’s with Simmons. I like his analysis either way, but prefer the funnier version.

ButtersSuki · 02-07-2019 7:43pm

More seriously on Butler, he’s best friends with Wade (they were on holiday together when Butler found out he was traded to Minny) so you have to imagine Wade had a big influence on that decision. But I don’t want to hear “I’m all about winning” if that’s the career move you make.

Carcharodon · 02-07-2019 9:39pm

Hitch2222 wrote: »

It would be cool for him and Steph to stay but if Klay comes back to 100% which it seems reasonably possible with an ACL, I feel like there's a little bit of disappointment if he never moves to see how good he would be as a teams No1

Yea but I think we kind of know of how good he is, 3 Rings, 5 all stars. The beauty of Klay for me is that he doesn’t need to be thought of as a #1, he just wants to be part of a team and be happy. He has consistently said he never wants to leave, he realizes he has it pretty good and the grass is not always greener on the other side.
I could see him at the Lakers at some point down the road but he has never wavered on how he wants to stay in the bay
I think he is pretty comfortable in his own skin with little ego
Compare that to KD, he can be very sensitive and needs that confirmation off people

Carcharodon · 02-07-2019 10:13pm

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Joe House came out with a laugh out loud comment on the Simmons Pod re. Jimmy’s reasons for wanting to be in South Beach. It involves alliteration with the letter P and relates to the above in bold.:pac:

Also on Pods, Woj sounded absolutely shattered on his. At times he was struggling to find his train of thought and just rambling. Prob. put in some crazy hour’s last week. Ryen Rusillo was his guest, but he was in serious mode - not the jokey guy you get on his own or when he’s with Simmons. I like his analysis either way, but prefer the funnier version.

Haven’t listened to the latest Woj pod yet but he was all over this free agency and trades

Angliru · 03-07-2019 12:00am

MPJ fully cleared to take part in summer league. Huge news considering the drop foot diagnosis recently but I've seen some training footage a while ago and he looked fresh. The likelihood of him being over his injuries is slim but I'm so excited just to see him take part at a decent level. If he somehow can get back to a top level and avoid injury he and the Nuggets are going to be a problem. Rooting so hard for him.

Osmosis Jones · 03-07-2019 1:36am

Angliru wrote: »

MPJ fully cleared to take part in summer league. Huge news considering the drop foot diagnosis recently but I've seen some training footage a while ago and he looked fresh. The likelihood of him being over his injuries is slim but I'm so excited just to see him take part at a decent level. If he somehow can get back to a top level and avoid injury he and the Nuggets are going to be a problem. Rooting so hard for him.

All he really has to do is be better than Will Barton and I think most Nuggets fans will be happy enough

Hitch2222 · 03-07-2019 9:06am

If the Lakers don't get Kawhi, I really like the Jazz as a contender.

Gobert/Mitchell/Bogdanovic/Conley
/Favours/Green/Mundiay/Ingles/Exum/Davis.

That must be the deepest roster in the NBA

LuckyLloyd · 03-07-2019 9:19am

Hitch2222 wrote: »

If the Lakers don't get Kawhi, I really like the Jazz as a contender.

Gobert/Mitchell/Bogdanovic/Conley/Favours/Green/Mundiay/Ingles/Exum/Davis.

That must be the deepest roster in the NBA

It’s deep, they’ll be great to watch and they’ll probably get their highest seeding yet. But I don’t think they have championship tools. They would really struggle to defend the likes of Harden or Kawhi with that lineup for example.

Hitch2222 · 03-07-2019 9:36am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It’s deep, they’ll be great to watch and they’ll probably get their highest seeding yet. But I don’t think they have championship tools. They would really struggle to defend the likes of Harden or Kawhi with that lineup for example.

I just want to see Exum healthy, I thought he had a very high ceiling, incredibly unlikely thus far.

ButtersSuki · 03-07-2019 10:56am

Hitch2222 wrote: »

If the Lakers don't get Kawhi, I really like the Jazz as a contender.

Gobert/Mitchell/Bogdanovic/Conley
/Favours/Green/Mundiay/Ingles/Exum/Davis.

That must be the deepest roster in the NBA

They’re stacked alright, but assuming Leonard doesn’t go to to the Clippers the West will be a shootout next year. If Leonard stays in Toronto you could argue they’re deeper, and it will prob create a situation where 10 or so teams could be in with a decent shot of winning it next year - a huge change in recent NBA form. It’d almost be like the NFL in that regard. A couple of people mentioned them on pods over the last few days as sleepers. The West next year could just be a lottery though.

I hope he doesn’t go to the Lakers as I feel the league would be far more entertaining if he went elsewhere, but if it happens, it happens.

I’ve talked myself into Philly as favourites over the last few days - depending of course on a clean bill of health and Leonard not going to the Lakers. They’re going to be huge, and a defensive machine. The pickups have definitely improved them.

leggo · 03-07-2019 11:14am

See the thing with the Lakers is their setup is like an ultra version of what GSW had built, and they have the same risks inherent, perhaps moreso. LeBron is ageing and Anthony Davis hasn't had many injury-free seasons...and stuff can just happen. If the Lakers get Kawhi, of course they'll be clear favourites, but they'll also be completely reliant on staying healthy in a situation that isn't necessarily built for doing so. We've literally just witnessed the consequences when that doesn't happen. And, if anything, the Warriors had even more depth than them in that at least they could stay somewhat competitive with just Curry and Green on the court. If one of LeBron, Davis or Kawhi goes down at the wrong moment, the Lakers are vulnerable, because they're just as big a loss as they are an asset on the court.

Plus when has life ever gone completely smoothly for the Lakers? They're a reality show, even at their recent peak with Kobe and Shaq you had two stars who hated each other. There's gonna be drama along the way.

The Offseason 2019

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