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Engine seized

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  • 01-06-2020 8:05am
    #1
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭


    So it has been a while since I've had to create a post and I'm glad it has to be on my birthday.
    Had the timing belt kit done a few weeks back and the valve cover gasket replaced alongside new spark plugs the other week.
    Driving home last night and the car crapped itself on the motorway while going for an overtake.
    Literally banged itself to death.
    Engine light, oil light everything came on and it simply died.
    Before it died the engine started knocking like mad.
    Had it towed to the workshop where it was done, and demanded they recheck everything they did as it was too coincidental.
    Waiting now for the diagnosis but the oil was all gone and the coolant at a minimum.
    Safe to say the engine is knackered.
    But they mentioned that the code on the ECU shows that the timing belt sensor isn't working and that's the issue..
    Seems unlikely to me.
    Thoughts?


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    #2
    scannerd
    Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭scannerd


    Well it might or might not be related to work done, but you might never know, If the belt has moved (broke or slipped) the it might have been installed poorly, but it can also be result of other mechanical failure taking the belt out. Not sure what sensor / codes will tell you. You are relying on the honesty of this shop now. how old / how many miles?


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    #3
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    scannerd wrote: »
    Well it might or might not be related to work done, but you might never know, If the belt has moved (broke or slipped) the it might have been installed poorly, but it can also be result of other mechanical failure taking the belt out. Not sure what sensor / codes will tell you. You are relying on the honesty of this shop now. how old / how many miles?

    Belt is still intact, the boxer engine seems pretty straightforward when it comes to being able to see things easily.
    It's 14 years old and with close to 340k on the clock.
    All filters, oil, pulleys etc were changed.
    Then I had the valve cover gasket replaced as it was leaking oil and the spark plugs changed too.
    The latter was only done on Thursday.
    So I'm pretty skeptical that the car suddenly crapped itself.
    2.5 outback


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    #4
    Damienmac
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Damienmac


    With all coolant and oil dropped out of the car, it sounds like there was serious mechanical failure. If not the timing belt snapping/slipping, then it would take something big like the conrod breaking to cause that.

    AFAIK no engine relies on a sensor to time mechanical parts to the point where it would come apart like that with a broken sensor. It just might not run well or start with a bad sensor.


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    #5
    sligopaul
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭sligopaul


    Do some early boxer engines have camshaft issues that can write off the engine


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    #6
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    sligopaul wrote: »
    Do some early boxer engines have camshaft issues that can write off the engine

    Knocking?

    Oil pump gone perhaps, causing a seize.

    Perhaps they didn't use the right oil (unlikely) or perhaps they didn't fill up the water reservoir (unlikely).

    I wouldn't be sure it's timing belt related. Probs more to do with the gasket replacement.

    Then again, going at old cars with spanners is the cause of many secondary failures as the stresses and strains move around due to the maintenance.

    New engine. Or new car. 350k owes you nothing tbh.


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    #7
    antodeco
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,425 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    Someway unrelated, but does insurance cover things like engine failures?


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    #8
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    Damienmac wrote: »
    With all coolant and oil dropped out of the car, it sounds like there was serious mechanical failure. If not the timing belt snapping/slipping, then it would take something big like the conrod breaking to cause that.

    AFAIK no engine relies on a sensor to time mechanical parts to the point where it would come apart like that with a broken sensor. It just might not run well or start with a bad sensor.

    Agreed.

    No oil or water? Where did it go and how?
    Is there holes in the engine?

    Or was it there to begin with, although you would expect oil/water lights to come on if not.


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    #9
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    Update. Engine gone.
    Head is destroyed but they haven't been able to determine why.
    No oil or water under the car when I checked and the exhaust was dry.
    So I'm at a loss as to what has actually happened to a car which showed no signs something was up.
    I still feel they have made a mistake somewhere but no way for me to back that up.
    Such a pity as it was a great car.


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    #10
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Happy birthday bear1!

    Too bad about the car.
    I'd go back to the mechanic, but without proof and considering you have been driving for weeks they'll probably just shrug it off.

    With the age and mileage you'll just have to take it on the chin and look for a new car.


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    #11
    hi5
    Registered Users Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭hi5


    Where did the oil go, it must have gone somewhere?
    Sounds to me like you developed a massive oil leak when driving and that caused the engine to seize/disintegrate.


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    #12
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Was it a diesel subaru by any chance op?
    If it was it's far from uncommon, they've a nasty habit of sh1tting themselves. Camshaft usually the culprit.


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    #13
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    Was it a diesel subaru by any chance op?
    If it was it's far from uncommon, they've a nasty habit of sh1tting themselves. Camshaft usually the culprit.

    No it was a 2.5 petrol.
    Seems that the engine simply failed. But as to the why I couldn't tell you.
    Going to the mechanic at 5 to hear everything and I'll update again.


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    #14
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    EJ25 Turbo's were known to give problems, I am not so sure about the naturally aspirated versions.
    Head Gaskets are a known issue in them, yours possibly failed and blew all the coolant out?
    https://youtu.be/I2ROWnw82L4


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    #15
    CoBo55
    Registered Users Posts: 8,750 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    Was it a diesel subaru by any chance op?
    If it was it's far from uncommon, they've a nasty habit of sh1tting themselves. Camshaft usually the culprit.

    Dmf was the weakest link which started the domino effect.


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    #16
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    EE20 was the diesel engine, 2.0 litre. OP says the engine is a 2.5 which means its most likely the EJ25 Petrol which have known issues with head gaskets.


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    #17
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    EE20 was the diesel engine, 2.0 litre. OP says the engine is a 2.5 which means its most likely the EJ25 Petrol which have known issues with head gaskets.

    Well in the end the bid end failed.
    Pistons went to **** and that was the end of that.
    So the car is now essentially scrap.
    But with literally no warning, it was completely fine the night before after we did a 5 hour trip in it.
    No overheating, no performance issues and was going well.
    What can you do I suppose...
    Already have the next one lined up as I can't be without a car


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    #18
    CoBo55
    Registered Users Posts: 8,750 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    That engine was definitely ran without oil I'd reckon it wasn't filled properly after the service, if it was filled at all.


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    #19
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    CoBo55 wrote: »
    That engine was definitely ran without oil I'd reckon it wasn't filled properly after the service, if it was filled at all.

    God only knows but I'm pretty sure the garage ballsed it up and wants to distance themselves from it.
    I don't have the energy to try and prove the whole thing so I'll just move on at this stage.
    With two kids though you need a car.. hoping this Saturday.


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    #20
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    worth putting a used engine into it, if the rest is good ?

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #21
    greasepalm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,253 ✭✭✭greasepalm


    Still got the sump bung in i assume,5hrs of hard driving on a motorway with high mileage engine that might be burning oil.


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    #22
    CoBo55
    Registered Users Posts: 8,750 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    I think the op has the right attitude, let it go and get something else. If you have family commitments etc you really don't need the hassle of sourcing another engine and all the messing getting it fitted, phone calls, it won't start, the clutch doesn't fit, blah blah blah...


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    #23
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    galwaytt wrote: »
    worth putting a used engine into it, if the rest is good ?

    The price of the engine outweighs the price of the car.
    Unfortunately I couldn't risk (from experience) getting a donor engine from a car I know nothing about and then spending a fortune on getting it running right.
    Things here work a bit differently than in Ireland.
    All going well I'll have the replacement car on Saturday, completely different type of car but I'm like that.


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    #24
    krissovo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭krissovo


    From the symptoms the only reasonable explanation is a slipped timing belt. Think about it, put your foot down for a overtake giving extra power & torque and the belt slipped which then destroyed the head.

    I have had it happen twice, once on a E class with 400k's on the clock and the timing chain stretched and slipped when giving it welly. Only jumped a tooth but the damage was done. The other was a fairly low mileage MG ZR that the belt was fitted poorly and jumped teeth at high rev's so the engine literally exploded.


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    #25
    greasepalm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,253 ✭✭✭greasepalm


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeEQKWJqZ0s


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    #26
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    CoBo55 wrote: »
    , if it was filled at all.

    Well that obviously didnt happen. Cars dont just drive )perfectly fine) for weeks with no oil in them .


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    #27
    CoBo55
    Registered Users Posts: 8,750 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Well that obviously didnt happen. Cars dont just drive )perfectly fine) for weeks with no oil in them .
    If there was only two litres put in and the mechanic was called away for a minute.. can easily happen, anyway it doesn't matter the damage has been done, and imo the op is doing the right thing.


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    #28
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    CoBo55 wrote: »
    If there was only two litres put in and the mechanic was called away for a minute.. can easily happen, .

    That would be this bit, thats why I didnt quote that.
    CoBo55 wrote: »
    l I'd reckon it wasn't filled properly after the service,.


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    #29
    CoBo55
    Registered Users Posts: 8,750 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    That would be this bit, thats why I didnt quote that.
    I don't know what you're at here but I think this thread has come to a natural end.


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    #30
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    CoBo55 wrote: »
    I don't know what you're at here but I think this thread has come to a natural end.

    Just ruling out the obvious , that it didnt run for weeks with no oil. No sense the op pick up something impossible and running with it. Itd weaken his case if he is accusing them of something that clearly didnt happen is all.


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    #31
    selectamatic
    Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    Big end failure isn't unheard of on 2.5sti's so it'd be plausible for a similar failure to happen an n/a outback.

    The lack of any oil under or in the engine is pretty puzzling tbh though. Could it have possibly been burning oil for the last good while? If it was leaking a drop I'm assuming you were having to keep it topped up? this might have hidden any oil burning problems as naturally the leak would be the prime suspect.

    How much driving had been done since the work was done?


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