DoE testing - The Last Word

defike · 06-03-2012 3:16pm

Just spoke to RSA and they say there is no legal requirement for seat belts to be fitted to rear seats in a motorcaravan.I was stopped by guards myself last year with passengers sitting in forward facing rear seats and he made no issue of the lack of seatbelts.My thinking is poorly fitted seatbelts can be dangerous in a crash.

bluethunder · 06-03-2012 3:44pm

defike wrote: »

Just spoke to RSA and they say there is no legal requirement for seat belts to be fitted to rear seats in a motorcaravan.I was stopped by guards myself last year with passengers sitting in forward facing rear seats and he made no issue of the lack of seatbelts.My thinking is poorly fitted seatbelts can be dangerous in a crash.

More dangerous than no belts at all?

niloc1951 · 06-03-2012 6:53pm

defike wrote: »

Just spoke to RSA and they say there is no legal requirement for seat belts to be fitted to rear seats in a motorcaravan...........................

.

This is a quote from the NSAI website "In the case of a motor-caravan, ambulance, or hearse, at least lap belts are required for rear seating positions.
And,
"In the case of a motor-caravan, ambulance, hearse, mobile crane or other special purpose vehicle, Any seats which are not designated for use when travelling on a road must be clearly identified to users by means of a pictogram or a sign with appropriate text."

However, in my vehicle the seats designated are marked with a pictogram,which I suppose gives the same message.

http://www.nsai.ie/NSAI/files/fe/fed8825a-379f-431e-a07c-20e126f7bd93.pdf

Irishgoatman · 06-03-2012 8:04pm

niloc1951 wrote: »

.

This is a quote from the NSAI website "In the case of a motor-caravan, ambulance, or hearse, at least lap belts are required for rear seating positions.
And,
"In the case of a motor-caravan, ambulance, hearse, mobile crane or other special purpose vehicle, Any seats which are not designated for use when travelling on a road must be clearly identified to users by means of a pictogram or a sign with appropriate text."

However, in my vehicle the seats designated are marked with a pictogram,which I suppose gives the same message.

http://www.nsai.ie/NSAI/files/fe/fed8825a-379f-431e-a07c-20e126f7bd93.pdf

I've just read through the piece that this link goes to!!!.

Firstly, I've no idea who/what NSAI are?.
If you start looking through the piece on this link you will have to go elsewhere as well as it makes references to other rules/regulations.

Me personally, I will be going by the letter and info supplied by the RSA. They don't advise us to look elsewhere for information and the testing stations have received the same as us.

I think you'll find that the latest/recent law re testing supersedes everything else.

This, I think, is just going to muddy the water.

niloc1951 · 06-03-2012 9:32pm

Irishgoatman wrote: »

.................I've no idea who/what NSAI are?............................

the NSAI (National Standards Authority of Ireland) are/will be responsible for among other things the administration of Vehicle Type Approval, which means these are the people who will decide if a motor caravan meets the requirements of ECWVTA (European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval) which has been discussed here in relation to self builds.

Irishgoatman · 06-03-2012 10:57pm

niloc1951 wrote: »

the NSAI (National Standards Authority of Ireland) are/will be responsible for among other things the administration of Vehicle Type Approval, which means these are the people who will decide if a motor caravan meets the requirements of ECWVTA (European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval) which has been discussed here in relation to self builds.

So in other words, anything on their site will only affect vehicles not already registered in this country as campervans/motorhomes.
If I understand you correctly.

Morgan The Moon · 06-03-2012 11:26pm

Hi, Does anybody know how they are testing the parking brake / hand brake on vehicles that have tagg axle Alko chassis.

bluethunder · 07-03-2012 12:23pm

Went to get my CRW this morning in the tax office. Chap at the desk took my money and said 'that's valid for 2 years, even though it says one year on the cert'. My van is 1996 so I thought it had to be tested every year. I asked him was he sure, telling him my van is over 10 years old. He insisted the cert was valid for two years.

Still a lot of confusion around this I reckon. I've emailed motor tax office to clarify, will let you know what I get back.

SonOfPerdition · 07-03-2012 2:50pm

bluethunder wrote: »

FAIL.

4 problems, 2 I can do myself. The screenwash doesn't spray enough, so maybe clean out the pipes etc.

My screenwash doesn't work and my van passed. :rolleyes:

Irishgoatman · 07-03-2012 4:42pm

bluethunder wrote: »

Went to get my CRW this morning in the tax office. Chap at the desk took my money and said 'that's valid for 2 years, even though it says one year on the cert'. My van is 1996 so I thought it had to be tested every year. I asked him was he sure, telling him my van is over 10 years old. He insisted the cert was valid for two years.

Still a lot of confusion around this I reckon. I've emailed motor tax office to clarify, will let you know what I get back.

It is definitely every 2 years for vehicles over 10 years old as stated in the letter we all received.
This is in line with cars.

deadl0ck · 07-03-2012 4:50pm

Irishgoatman wrote: »

It is definitely every 2 years for vehicles over 10 years old as stated in the letter we all received.
This is in line with cars.

OK - now I'm confused

The letter says :
Motor caravans must be tested on the fourth anniversary of first registration and thereafter every two years until the vehicle is ten years old, after which annual testing applies
So that means it's every year if it's over 10, or am I missing something here ??

bluethunder · 07-03-2012 4:52pm

deadl0ck wrote: »

OK - now I'm confused

The letter says :
Motor caravans must be tested on the fourth anniversary of first registration and thereafter every two years until the vehicle is ten years old, after which annual testing applies
So that means it's every year if it's over 10, or am I missing something here ??

That's my reading of it. I think irishgoatman made a mistake up there.

Irishgoatman · 07-03-2012 5:04pm

bluethunder wrote: »

That's my reading of it. I think irishgoatman made a mistake up there.

Yes I did make a mistake. Should have typed, every year. Brains having trouble again.

".... until the vehicle is ten years old" which yours is, it's exactly the same as applies to cars.

bluethunder · 07-03-2012 5:09pm

Exhibit A

Irishgoatman wrote: »

It is definitely every 2 years for vehicles over 10 years old as stated in the letter we all received.
This is in line with cars.

Exhibit B

Irishgoatman wrote: »

No mistake. Read it again.

".... until the vehicle is ten years old" which yours is, "after which", in other words after you have wished it a happy tenth birthday, " annual testing applies", meaning every year.

I rest my face.

Irishgoatman · 07-03-2012 5:15pm

Glad we've sorted that out.
I sometimes think one thing and type another.
As you will see, I did correct myself.

I used to have a wife who was very good at correcting me.
I'm not good at doing it myself.

must take the tablets more often:o.

Pjwal · 08-03-2012 12:02am

Morgan The Moon wrote:

Hi, Does anybody know how they are testing the parking brake / hand brake on vehicles that have tagg axle Alko chassis.

every axle that is fitted with a handbrake, will have the handbrake tested.

Morgan The Moon · 08-03-2012 9:43am

Pjwal wrote: »

every axle that is fitted with a handbrake, will have the handbrake tested.

Hi, That is correct, but the Alko manufacturers have a strict guide line as to the operation and thus testing of the device. I was hoping that someone on here may know how they are physically carrying out the test.

vindiesel · 08-03-2012 3:25pm

Hi,when going for the test do you have to get the underbody washed?My camper seems clean enough underneath but when I booked it in for test they said to get it washed.Anyone else get theirs washed?

bluethunder · 08-03-2012 3:34pm

vindiesel wrote: »

Hi,when going for the test do you have to get the underbody washed?My camper seems clean enough underneath but when I booked it in for test they said to get it washed.Anyone else get theirs washed?

Didn't bother washing mine, was never told to but I did see signs up in the garage saying that you should. I suppose if they warn you to do it then you should if it needs it.

WildWater · 08-03-2012 3:46pm

vindiesel wrote: »

Hi,when going for the test do you have to get the underbody washed?My camper seems clean enough underneath but when I booked it in for test they said to get it washed.Anyone else get theirs washed?

Nope and they didn't ask me to when I booked it in but I checked and it is very clean under there. If its reasonably clean I'd say you will be fine.

Pjwal · 08-03-2012 9:18pm

vindiesel wrote:

Hi,when going for the test do you have to get the underbody washed?My camper seems clean enough underneath but when I booked it in for test they said to get it washed.Anyone else get theirs washed?

No you don't need to wash underneath unless it is so dirty that the tester won't be able to check the components.

Pjwal · 08-03-2012 9:23pm

Morgan The Moon wrote:

Pjwal wrote:

every axle that is fitted with a handbrake, will have the handbrake tested.

Hi, That is correct, but the Alko manufacturers have a strict guide line as to the operation and thus testing of the device. I was hoping that someone on here may know how they are physically carrying out the test.

The axle will be driven onto the rolling road and weighed. If it is under the design gross weight, the rolling road will be started and the brake will be applyed and it's readings will be recorded on the computer. It is the only way a brake test can be done.

niloc1951 · 08-03-2012 10:07pm

Pjwal wrote: »

The axle will be driven onto the rolling road and weighed. If it is under the design gross weight, the rolling road will be started and the brake will be applyed and it's readings will be recorded on the computer. It is the only way a brake test can be done.

Interesting, but the rear brake system on Alko chassis is disc for stopping and 'top hat' for the handbrake.
The handbrake is not strictly speaking a handbrake as found in many vehicles but is in fact a 'parking brake' and it is not supposed to be applied while the vehicle is in motion (I suppose wheels turning on a rolling road would be the same thing) because damage can be caused to its internal mechanism.

Pjwal · 08-03-2012 10:47pm

niloc1951 wrote: »

Interesting, but the rear brake system on Alko chassis is disc for stopping and 'top hat' for the handbrake.
The handbrake is not strictly speaking a handbrake as found in many vehicles but is in fact a 'parking brake' and it is not supposed to be applied while the vehicle is in motion (I suppose wheels turning on a rolling road would be the same thing) because damage can be caused to its internal mechanism.[/QUOT

park brake is what it is frefered to as in the testing manual, and if it is the brake that is ment to hold the vehicle from moving while it is parked,then it must be tested on the rolling road, how ever, nobody wants to be responsable for causing damage to another persons pride and joy, so if you were to inform the tester of your concerns and inform him of alko's instructions, i am sure that once he has obtained enough readings(which are reasonably low for park brake)he will stop the test at that point instead of keeping going for the max readings that be obtained(which would be standard practice).

niloc1951 · 08-03-2012 11:04pm

Pjwal wrote: »

niloc1951 wrote: »

Interesting, but the rear brake system on Alko chassis is disc for stopping and 'top hat' for the handbrake.
The handbrake is not strictly speaking a handbrake as found in many vehicles but is in fact a 'parking brake' and it is not supposed to be applied while the vehicle is in motion (I suppose wheels turning on a rolling road would be the same thing) because damage can be caused to its internal mechanism.[/QUOT

park brake is what it is frefered to as in the testing manual, and if it is the brake that is ment to hold the vehicle from moving while it is parked,then it must be tested on the rolling road, how ever, nobody wants to be responsable for causing damage to another persons pride and joy, so if you were to inform the tester of your concerns and inform him of alko's instructions, i am sure that once he has obtained enough readings(which are reasonably low for park brake)he will stop the test at that point instead of keeping going for the max readings that be obtained(which would be standard practice).

Would it not be possible to start the rolling road after the parking brake has been applied, would this not be a more realistic test of its holding efficiency, after all it is not designed to be used to slow the vehicle or for bringing it to a halt

Pjwal · 08-03-2012 11:21pm

niloc1951 wrote: »

Pjwal wrote: »

Would it not be possible to start the rolling road after the parking brake has been applied, would this not be a more realistic test of its holding efficiency, after all it is not designed to be used to slow the vehicle or for bringing it to a halt

no,fraid not,the axle would just lift out of the rollers and you would have no reading, the rollers only turn at 3km/h. to be honest, many alko axles have been tested for thier max output and no damage has been done, and up until now, campers tested on the heavy lane have had the axles tied down and still no damage so i dont think you need to be as concerned as you are

Macspower · 08-03-2012 11:45pm

passed today.. no problems... needed a few bulbs but the tester fitted them.. all very friendly and easy with Kieran at the VTN in Irish Commercials in Naas.. He was having camper day today with 6 of them booked in.

niloc1951 · 09-03-2012 12:26am

Pjwal wrote: »

........................campers tested on the heavy lane have had the axles tied down and still no damage so i dont think you need to be as concerned as you are

This is strictly contrary to Alko policy which advises that no attachments are to be made without their authorisation to their product. Any such actions can invalidate their warranty and liability for the consequences of chassis failure arising from such action.
AND
The 'tying down' axles of motor caravans of any GVW is also contrary to the test regulations item 37 & 39 Motor Caravan.........brake performance must be calculated using the vehicle weight presented and the axle load simulator need not be used
Refer to Circular RSA VI 02/12

Pjwal · 09-03-2012 12:56am

niloc1951 wrote: »

Pjwal wrote:

........................campers tested on the heavy lane have had the axles tied down and still no damage so i dont think you need to be as concerned as you are

This is strictly contrary to Alko policy which advises that no attachments are to be made without their authorisation to their product. Any such actions can invalidate their warranty and liability for the consequences of chassis failure arising from such action.
AND
The 'tying down' axles of motor caravans of any GVW is also contrary to the test regulations item 37 & 39 [COLOR="Red"]Motor Caravan.........brake performance must be calculated using the vehicle weight presented and the axle load simulator need not be used[/COLOR]
Refer to Circular RSA VI 02/12

the testing of motorhome with a gvw of over 3500kgs is only a regulation sence march 1st. How ever many people have been testing thier campers for the past 2 or years and if they had to be tested on the heavy lane, the brakes were tested against the gvw and not the presented weight and all axles would have been tied down. If you object to the testing process I suggest you contact the rsa in loughrea as they are the only people who can change the system and right now as all rules stand, the park brake must be tested on a rolling road.

Macspower · 09-03-2012 1:27am

I'm sure common sense can prevail here with the testing centre.. I know with my Subaru Impreza when it comes NCT time I ask them not to test it on the rolling road as it only does one axle at a time and it could wind the diff...

there is never a problem and they generally just test the brakes in the yard instead.

I'm sure the VTN centre would same common sense in this situation

Pjwal · 09-03-2012 1:36am

Macspower wrote:

I'm sure common sense can prevail here with the testing centre.. I know with my Subaru Impreza when it comes NCT time I ask them not to test it on the rolling road as it only does one axle at a time and it could wind the diff...

there is never a problem and they generally just test the brakes in the yard instead.

I'm sure the VTN centre would same common sense in this situation

I am afraid that doesn't reall sort the prob either.
The decelarometer test can only be conducted on vehicles which are constant 4 wheel drive. And during that test, the brakes are tested from driving and the effency is calculated by a gauge that is sitting on the floor. So that also goes against alko's recommendations.

Slidey · 09-03-2012 6:26am

The decelerometer can be used on any vehicle, 4x4 or not.

Pjwal · 09-03-2012 9:33am

Slidey wrote:

The decelerometer can be used on any vehicle, 4x4 or not.

No it can't. Only on constant 4 wheel drive vehicles. Check it out with rsa or local council autheriseing office.

spaceHopper · 09-03-2012 12:16pm

Well DOE done, FAILED ! All small things
The chassis number has a typo in the log book, have to go to the tax office
The front head light is not working on high beams, there's a fault could be bulb or bad ground I'll fix it my self, They need to be focused to.
The tip of the exhaust it rusted, can get my Brother in Law to weld it.

Have to go back within 21 days for a visual!

niloc1951 · 09-03-2012 12:16pm

Pjwal wrote: »

....................many people have been testing thier campers for the past 2 or years and if they had to be tested on the heavy lane, the brakes were tested against the gvw and not the presented weight and all axles would have been tied down....................

.....................which is one of the reasons I chose not to have mine tested, apart from the fact that there was no legal requirement to do so.

It's only academic now as 'tying down' is not required for motor caravans even those over 3,500 kg GVW as per Circular RSA VI 02/12.

See the attach file for confirmation of Alko position regarding attachments and the consequence of attaching anything not approved by them to their product, the caution makes no exception even for 'temporary' attachments.

I would suggest that any motor caravan owner who's vehicle has an Alko chassis, is over 3,500kg GVW and subjected it to a road worthiness test pre 01/03/2012 should perhaps have its chassis inspected by a qualified to inspect Alko chassis.

Micky Dolenz · 09-03-2012 2:40pm

spaceHopper wrote: »

Well DOE done, FAILED ! All small things
The chassis number has a typo in the log book, have to go to the tax office
The front head light is not working on high beams, there's a fault could be bulb or bad ground I'll fix it my self, They need to be focused to.
The tip of the exhaust it rusted, can get my Brother in Law to weld it.

Have to go back within 21 days for a visual!

Nice one.

To to clarify, I book it in with a doe centre and not a nct centre?

spaceHopper · 09-03-2012 3:33pm

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

spaceHopper wrote: »

Well DOE done, FAILED ! All small things
The chassis number has a typo in the log book, have to go to the tax office
The front head light is not working on high beams, there's a fault could be bulb or bad ground I'll fix it my self, They need to be focused to.
The tip of the exhaust it rusted, can get my Brother in Law to weld it.

Have to go back within 21 days for a visual!

Nice one.

To to clarify, I book it in with a doe centre and not a nct centre?

Yes you go to any vtn and not nct just Google doe test and your town

Micky Dolenz · 09-03-2012 3:40pm

spaceHopper wrote: »

Yes you go to any vtn and not nct just Google doe test and your town

Thanks. I'll bring it back to the place I got my engineers report last season. They do all our commercial vehicles too, hopefully theyll go handy on the ould lady

Pjwal · 09-03-2012 3:53pm

niloc1951 wrote: »

.....................which is one of the reasons I chose not to have mine tested, apart from the fact that there was no legal requirement to do so.

It's only academic now as 'tying down' is not required for motor caravans even those over 3,500 kg GVW as per Circular RSA VI 02/12.

See the attach file for confirmation of Alko position regarding attachments and the consequence of attaching anything not approved by them to their product, the caution makes no exception even for 'temporary' attachments.

I would suggest that any motor caravan owner who's vehicle has an Alko chassis, is over 3,500kg GVW and subjected it to a road worthiness test pre 01/03/2012 should perhaps have its chassis inspected by a qualified to inspect Alko chassis.

i have never had a problem beliveing what you said, but your question was how/what method was used to test the park brake and i answered that. its not me you need to be argueing with, its the people in charge of makeing the rules as to how the tests are conducted. how ever i brought your concerns to somebody closer to the top then myself and explainedwhat you said was contained in the alko manual, to which he answered that he would get it looked into, but that answers to questions that may require a change from standard practice can be slow, and intil we are told otherwise, to continue testing according to the guidelines already in place. and if you as an owner dont want your vehice tested in this manner, then your vehicle can not be tested until a resolution has been reached.
i recommend that you call the rsa in loughrea, and look for sean breathneach who is the rsa chief engineer, because as of yet, i am the only person who has brought this to thier attention and they need to hear it many times to get them to act.

niloc1951 · 09-03-2012 4:58pm

Pjwal wrote: »

i have never had a problem beliveing what you said, but your question was how/what method was used to test the park brake and i answered that. its not me you need to be argueing with, its the people in charge of makeing the rules as to how the tests are conducted. how ever i brought your concerns to somebody closer to the top then myself and explainedwhat you said was contained in the alko manual, to which he answered that he would get it looked into, but that answers to questions that may require a change from standard practice can be slow, and intil we are told otherwise, to continue testing according to the guidelines already in place. and if you as an owner dont want your vehice tested in this manner, then your vehicle can not be tested until a resolution has been reached.
i recommend that you call the rsa in loughrea, and look for sean breathneach who is the rsa chief engineer, because as of yet, i am the only person who has brought this to thier attention and they need to hear it many times to get them to act.

Please read my post again. Particularly the part referring to Circular RSA VI 02/12 and the direction contained therein and in particular, Testing of Motor Caravans over 3,500 kgs Design Gross Vehicle Weight, items 37 & 39 "Motor Caravan.........brake performance must be calculated using the vehicle weight presented and the axle load simulator need not be used"
My understanding of the plain English is that this 'tying down' is not to be carried out for motor caravans of any weight

Pjwal · 09-03-2012 7:23pm

niloc1951 wrote: »

Pjwal wrote:

i have never had a problem beliveing what you said, but your question was how/what method was used to test the park brake and i answered that. its not me you need to be argueing with, its the people in charge of makeing the rules as to how the tests are conducted. how ever i brought your concerns to somebody closer to the top then myself and explainedwhat you said was contained in the alko manual, to which he answered that he would get it looked into, but that answers to questions that may require a change from standard practice can be slow, and intil we are told otherwise, to continue testing according to the guidelines already in place. and if you as an owner dont want your vehice tested in this manner, then your vehicle can not be tested until a resolution has been reached.
i recommend that you call the rsa in loughrea, and look for sean breathneach who is the rsa chief engineer, because as of yet, i am the only person who has brought this to thier attention and they need to hear it many times to get them to act.

Please read my post again. Particularly the part referring to Circular RSA VI 02/12 and the direction contained therein and in particular, Testing of Motor Caravans over 3,500 kgs Design Gross Vehicle Weight, items 37 & 39 "Motor Caravan.........brake performance must be calculated using the vehicle weight presented and the axle load simulator need not be used"
My understanding of the plain English is that this 'tying down' is not to be carried out for motor caravans of any weight

Please read all my posts again, but slower. You are correct on that point. And I have never clamed otherwise. But that is only the case sence 1st of febuary. Which is only 9 days ago. Previous to this date, campers tested as a hgv had thier brakes tested against thier gvw, for which they had to be tied down. I v tried to helpfull to you, I tried to be helpfull to you and put forward your worries to the people in charge, but I am not going to bother any more as you seem to have a very forcefull opinion and your not willing to accept any information that's different to what you want to hear.

Morgan The Moon · 09-03-2012 9:13pm

niloc1951 wrote: »

Please read my post again. Particularly the part referring to Circular RSA VI 02/12 and the direction contained therein and in particular, Testing of Motor Caravans over 3,500 kgs Design Gross Vehicle Weight, items 37 & 39 "Motor Caravan.........brake performance must be calculated using the vehicle weight presented and the axle load simulator need not be used"
My understanding of the plain English is that this 'tying down' is not to be carried out for motor caravans of any weight

It would appear that my original question has sparked the debate that was desired. Your understanding of the Alko chassis braking system is correct. The other contributor although trying to be informative is missing the point. The RSA are responsible for informing themselves and their agent to carry the Eu regulations as prescribed. Inform themselves contact Alko or any reputable German test centre to learn how to do it properly. I consider there are hundreds of Motorhomes on the Irish roads with Alko chassis, to my knowledge there purports to be at least three Motorhome clubs, where were they when interested parties had a chance to have there say?

Pjwal · 10-03-2012 12:20am

Morgan The Moon wrote:

niloc1951 wrote: »

Please read my post again. Particularly the part referring to Circular RSA VI 02/12 and the direction contained therein and in particular, Testing of Motor Caravans over 3,500 kgs Design Gross Vehicle Weight, items 37 & 39 "Motor Caravan.........brake performance must be calculated using the vehicle weight presented and the axle load simulator need not be used"
My understanding of the plain English is that this 'tying down' is not to be carried out for motor caravans of any weight

It would appear that my original question has sparked the debate that was desired. Your understanding of the Alko chassis braking system is correct. The other contributor although trying to be informative is missing the point. The RSA are responsible for informing themselves and their agent to carry the Eu regulations as prescribed. Inform themselves contact Alko or any reputable German test centre to learn how to do it properly. I consider there are hundreds of Motorhomes on the Irish roads with Alko chassis, to my knowledge there purports to be at least three Motorhome clubs, where were they when interested parties had a chance to have there say?

That is all quite fair, and I do agree that the current system may not suitable for the alko axle which is why I contacted my autheriseing officer in the council and the rsa inspector in charge of our area. But I do believe your original question was how is park currently been tested, and not how should they be tested.
And also your comment about people having thier say with the rsa prior to the testing of campers been introduced makes complete sence. But unfortunatly the rsa don't listen or consult or seek an input from anybody, when ever something new is introduced they rush in and make the rules and after the faults in thier system has been found they end up having to back track and change rule even tho thier original instructions would already have cost some vehicle owners considerable amounts of money, it has happened many times priviously. A number of other questionable problems to do with camper testing are also croping up.I.e. Axle weights on the base vehicle been raised by body builders without autherisation from the vehice manufactors and some body builders removing vehicle plates and fitting there own plate with a chassis no. that doesn't match the actual chassis no. And most of the pre 1994 model fiat ducato base vehicle having thier gvw changed from 2800 kg to 3100kg. But the rsa are slow to listen,

Morgan The Moon · 10-03-2012 9:51pm

Pjwal wrote: »

That is all quite fair, and I do agree that the current system may not suitable for the alko axle which is why I contacted my autheriseing officer in the council and the rsa inspector in charge of our area. But I do believe your original question was how is park currently been tested, and not how should they be tested.
And also your comment about people having thier say with the rsa prior to the testing of campers been introduced makes complete sence. But unfortunatly the rsa don't listen or consult or seek an input from anybody, when ever something new is introduced they rush in and make the rules and after the faults in thier system has been found they end up having to back track and change rule even tho thier original instructions would already have cost some vehicle owners considerable amounts of money, it has happened many times priviously. A number of other questionable problems to do with camper testing are also croping up.I.e. Axle weights on the base vehicle been raised by body builders without autherisation from the vehice manufactors and some body builders removing vehicle plates and fitting there own plate with a chassis no. that doesn't match the actual chassis no. And most of the pre 1994 model fiat ducato base vehicle having thier gvw changed from 2800 kg to 3100kg. But the rsa are slow to listen,

Thanks for your input. Your right my original query was," how is the park brake tested." The input from you and niloc1951 is what I was hoping for. I suspected that the testing of the parking brake would be an issue and thought I would seek others' opinion. If I found that the testing criteria could potentially cause damage to my Motorhome, I would think twice before handing over my keys. I think you would agree, to give the keys to a person who does not know what they are dealing with, is a definite no no. An interesting aspect of the testing regime is the lack of official proven documentation delivered to potential owners that may require their Motorhomes to be tested. I suspect a legal nightmare if anyone is charged of not have a certificate of compliance of this absurdly inept attempt of introducing necessary legislation. Personally I will wait before I hand over my keys!

Pjwal · 10-03-2012 10:58pm

Morgan The Moon wrote:

Pjwal wrote:

That is all quite fair, and I do agree that the current system may not suitable for the alko axle which is why I contacted my autheriseing officer in the council and the rsa inspector in charge of our area. But I do believe your original question was how is park currently been tested, and not how should they be tested.
And also your comment about people having thier say with the rsa prior to the testing of campers been introduced makes complete sence. But unfortunatly the rsa don't listen or consult or seek an input from anybody, when ever something new is introduced they rush in and make the rules and after the faults in thier system has been found they end up having to back track and change rule even tho thier original instructions would already have cost some vehicle owners considerable amounts of money, it has happened many times priviously. A number of other questionable problems to do with camper testing are also croping up.I.e. Axle weights on the base vehicle been raised by body builders without autherisation from the vehice manufactors and some body builders removing vehicle plates and fitting there own plate with a chassis no. that doesn't match the actual chassis no. And most of the pre 1994 model fiat ducato base vehicle having thier gvw changed from 2800 kg to 3100kg. But the rsa are slow to listen,

Thanks for your input. Your right my original query was," how is the park brake tested." The input from you and niloc1951 is what I was hoping for. I suspected that the testing of the parking brake would be an issue and thought I would seek others' opinion. If I found that the testing criteria could potentially cause damage to my Motorhome, I would think twice before handing over my keys. I think you would agree, to give the keys to a person who does not know what they are dealing with, is a definite no no. An interesting aspect of the testing regime is the lack of official proven documentation delivered to potential owners that may require their Motorhomes to be tested. I suspect a legal nightmare if anyone is charged of not have a certificate of compliance of this absurdly inept attempt of introducing necessary legislation. Personally I will wait before I hand over my keys!

Are you going to contact the rsa. What area of the country are you located.

Irishgoatman · 10-03-2012 11:30pm

Morgan The Moon wrote: »

Thanks for your input. Your right my original query was," how is the park brake tested." The input from you and niloc1951 is what I was hoping for. I suspected that the testing of the parking brake would be an issue and thought I would seek others' opinion. If I found that the testing criteria could potentially cause damage to my Motorhome, I would think twice before handing over my keys. I think you would agree, to give the keys to a person who does not know what they are dealing with, is a definite no no. An interesting aspect of the testing regime is the lack of official proven documentation delivered to potential owners that may require their Motorhomes to be tested. I suspect a legal nightmare if anyone is charged of not have a certificate of compliance of this absurdly inept attempt of introducing necessary legislation. Personally I will wait before I hand over my keys!

I can't get into the discussion over brake testing as my campervan is a real lightweight but I'm confused over one of your sentences in the above.

You refer to "....the lack of official proven documentation delivered...."
Are you implying that the testing may not be legal? If so did you not receive a letter from the RSA? I understand from my contact that one was sent out to every owner whose 'van was road taxed in 2011.

Morgan The Moon · 10-03-2012 11:38pm

I'm heading out of Ireland to Turkey on Monday, I will keep an eye on the forum whilst I am travelling. Hopefully answers will develop, I will try and have some dialogue with the RSA by e-mail. However as I commented before, there must be hundreds of Motorhomes in Ireland with Alko chassis, even vehicles under 3500 kgs with Alko braking systems should not have the park brake tested on a "rolling road".

Morgan The Moon · 10-03-2012 11:49pm

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I can't get into the discussion over brake testing as my campervan is a real lightweight but I'm confused over one of your sentences in the above.

You refer to "....the lack of official proven documentation delivered...."
Are you implying that the testing may not be legal? If so did you not receive a letter from the RSA? I understand from my contact that one was sent out to every owner whose 'van was road taxed in 2011.

The legality of the test is arguable if the test does not carry out testing procedures as per the manufactures operating recommendations. Personally I have not received any notification by mail or any other method. By chance I read items on this forum, hence as you can see I joined so as to interject.
My vehicle is taxed and insured. Maybe An Post is at fault or maybe the RSA.
Do you think they have proof of posting!

Martin_D · 11-03-2012 12:01am

Ignorance of the law is no defense. Laws and regulations are enacted all the time and there is no obligation to personally notify everyone - publication in iris oifiguil is the formal general notice

Pjwal · 11-03-2012 12:11am

Morgan The Moon wrote: »

The legality of the test is arguable if the test does not carry out testing procedures as per the manufactures operating recommendations. Personally I have not received any notification by mail or any other method. By chance I read items on this forum, hence as you can see I joined so as to interject.
My vehicle is taxed and insured. Maybe An Post is at fault or maybe the RSA.
Do you think they have proof of posting!

a letter was ment to be sent to the owner of every motorhome registered, they decided that was a cheaper option then media advertising. and all the motorhome awners that i know did recieve them. motorhome testing has been a european law for a few years now,which is why traffic core cops have been looking for it on the road for the last years and that is why quite a few peaple have been doing for the past couple of years, so it is a legal requirement, but as i said previously,and as with other vehice categorys, they dont do enough homework or consultation with people in the know and dive in, and then have to backtrack and make changes afterwards, it also happened with speedlimiters on certain minibusses, and a particular category of wideview mirrors on trucks under 7500kgs gvw, but unfortunatly, thery change the rules after some people have been forced to spend large amounts of money making modifacations, and creating many unnessisary arguments and awkward situations in the test centres.
and you are correct that testing on all vehicles is as per manufacterer specification, but the tester doesnt have the autherisation to test brakes in any way other then by the testers manual unless they are informed of a spacific instruction on paper from the rsa

DoE testing - The Last Word

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