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TFI Real Time App Update - Shows Live Position and Cancellations

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24

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    #32
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭markpb


    devnull wrote: »
    It's actually made by one of the most respected developers for Journey Planning and Real Time information, the same people who have developed the Journey Planning systems for TFL amongst many, many more..

    They might be good technically but their UI is truly awful. The problem is that Google Maps is very good so most people base their experiences on that. Unfortunately the data going into Google Maps doesn't seem to be correct. It regularly sends me to bus stops when no bus is due. The list of problems with either their website or their mobile apps is endless.


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    #33
    BurnUp78
    Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭BurnUp78


    What's up with 75 buses? Yet again I'm sat at the bus stop and the bus just doesnt appear even though on the TFI app it says due. This is an at least weekly occurrence I've no idea why it happens anyone else have similar experiences? Happens with both the 75 and 75a from tallaght towards dun Laoghaire


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    #34
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    markpb wrote: »
    Unfortunately the data going into Google Maps doesn't seem to be correct. It regularly sends me to bus stops when no bus is due. The list of problems with either their website or their mobile apps is endless.

    That's because Google Maps transit info for Dublin works off scheduled times rather than live times, since the main purpose of Google transit data is for journey planning rather than up to the minute information.


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    #35
    dazberry
    Registered Users Posts: 2,145 ✭✭✭dazberry


    There were 3 123s cancelled in a row today (for whatever reason DB didn't say). Naturally they just didn't appear on the on street displays or the Dublin Bus website but were listed in the TFI app as cancelled.


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    #36
    Mr.Crinklewood
    Registered Users Posts: 12,386 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Crinklewood


    Blue/white bus icons are hurting my head.

    What does the little number beside the white bus icon mean?


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    #37
    sharper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭sharper


    Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »
    What does the little number beside the white bus icon mean?

    As far as I can see so far it means there are multiple buses at that location or stops for multiple routes. The exact position for each stop seems to be sometimes slightly off so in places it a shows a cluster of stops close together when of course they're all in exactly the same place.

    If you tap the icon with the number you should get a list of routes.


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    #38
    smackyB
    Registered Users Posts: 747 ✭✭✭smackyB


    sharper wrote: »
    Hopefully all this is going into their public API, then I can just wait for a third party app developer to add a sensible UI.

    The TFI one looks exactly like what you might expect from some sort of steering committee producing generic requirements and sending them off to an outsourced contractor.

    No sign of this information being made available in their public API. In fact at the moment they don't even have the resources to maintain the public API outside of office hours so they shut it off during evenings and weekends.

    The new app update has changed the data source for live times and locked it down so I can't inspect where the network traffic is going - if anyone with better traffic sniffing skills than me would like to investigate what endpoint it's hitting I would be very interested!

    Everything I've seen so far indicates that TFI want to go down the road of locking down transport data into their own apps with no regard for third party developers - at this rate the days of Next Bus Dublin and other unofficial apps may be numbered.


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    #39
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    devnull wrote: »
    Yesterday I saw a couple of services which were showing that they were early terminating as well as the 7 which I posted a screenshot of, but the acid test for this kind of thing is to see an early terminating vehicle on the streets and then see if that is properly reflected in the app, be interested if it's reflected.



    It seems to update itself without needing to refresh - On both the route diagrams and the live position maps I've seen it change whilst I'm looking at it a few times so there is probably an in-built update interval, I haven't had the time to figure out what it is exactly, but seems less than a minute.

    So I was having a look at this this morning while eating breakfast.

    I checked my stop and then left it and then I went back to it about 10min later and it was still as it was.

    So I don't think it's on autorefresh.


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    #40
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,327 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    BurnUp78 wrote: »
    What's up with 75 buses? Yet again I'm sat at the bus stop and the bus just doesnt appear even though on the TFI app it says due. This is an at least weekly occurrence I've no idea why it happens anyone else have similar experiences? Happens with both the 75 and 75a from tallaght towards dun Laoghaire

    I was waiting for a 75 yesterday, the TFI app said it was 1 minute away and the realtme dot was flashing which I took to indicate that this prediction was based on live data from RTPI. Next Bus Dublin said it was 6 minutes away.

    One minute later, that 75 then disappeared from the TFI listing, presumably because they figured it had now passed me. Four minutes later, as predicted by NBD, it arrived.

    There are usability issues I have with the updated TFI app but they've been pushed into the background by my experience yesterday. I simply won't use it all from now on as I have the paid version of NBD.


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    #41
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    One issue I've noticed is buses appearing ahead of their scheduled time on RTPI for example a few times it's happened me where a bus is due in 4 mins but then appears unexpectedly and remains up on the RTPI even though it has already left.


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    #42
    Qrt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭Qrt


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    One issue I've noticed is buses appearing ahead of their scheduled time on RTPI for example a few times it's happened me where a bus is due in 4 mins but then appears unexpectedly and remains up on the RTPI even though it has already left.

    175? I’ve noticed that a couple of times?


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    #43
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Qrt wrote: »
    175? I’ve noticed that a couple of times?

    No 63 and 75


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    #44
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    That happened me on the 69 this morning!

    Though I dismissed it as the 69 sometimes gets an odd clear run through Inchicore some mornings which would mess with the rtpi.

    I'll keep an eye.


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    #45
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    So I was having a look at this this morning while eating breakfast.

    I checked my stop and then left it and then I went back to it about 10min later and it was still as it was.

    Odd - I've seen it refresh for me in front of my eyes.

    Dublin Bus services seem to be using a different kind of data feed than the other providers at the moment, which is how the DB services are able to show live position of the vehicles on maps and the others are not.

    For DB services this app is far better for me and more accurate and much more info than the old app and DB app (showing cancellations etc) but for Bus Eireann and Go-Ahead services there are still some kinks to iron out from what I have seen in relation to accuracy of data.


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    #46
    Thrashssacre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Thrashssacre


    I’ve had the same thing happen on the 76 been walking towards the stop look at my phone see I still have 5 or so mins then look up and see the bus flying past


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    #47
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    Does the live thing only work for some buses? There hasn't been a single one showing on my route in the three days I've been checking.


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    #48
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Thrashssacre wrote: »
    I’ve had the same thing happen on the 76 been walking towards the stop look at my phone see I still have 5 or so mins then look up and see the bus flying past

    This is a Known issue with Go Ahead routes.


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    #49
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,327 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Thrashssacre wrote: »
    I’ve had the same thing happen on the 76 been walking towards the stop look at my phone see I still have 5 or so mins then look up and see the bus flying past
    devnull wrote: »
    This is a Known issue with Go Ahead routes.

    My experience is that it can happen with a G-A route (in my case the 75) when I'm using the TFI app, it does not happen with the Next Bus Dublin app. See post #40.


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    #50
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    Does the live thing only work for some buses? There hasn't been a single one showing on my route in the three days I've been checking.


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    #51
    Qrt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭Qrt


    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    Does the live thing only work for some buses? There hasn't been a single one showing on my route in the three days I've been checking.

    DB only afaik.


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    #52
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    coylemj wrote: »
    My experience is that it can happen with a G-A route (in my case the 75) when I'm using the TFI app, it does not happen with the Next Bus Dublin app. See post #40.

    I've had problems with most apps and Go-Ahead departures to be fair, I've also seen Next Bus Dublin count down to a departure and no bus appear only for it to turn up a short while later almost like it was running off a timetable.

    There's something not right with Go-Ahead real time info in general I would say because ever since day 1 there has been issues with inaccurate real time information, far more than there was with Dublin Bus. I'd be curious what Go-Ahead are doing different from Dublin Bus.


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    #53
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    Does the live thing only work for some buses? There hasn't been a single one showing on my route in the three days I've been checking.

    Live position on the maps and on the route diagrams only for Dublin Bus at present, real time info should show for Dublin Bus, Go-Ahead and also Bus Eireann where the service supports it. Cancellation information should show for DB and Go-Ahead too.

    What is your route?


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    #54
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    I remember when I first installed their app on an android device back in May the app fell over permanently because location services were turned off when it first ran

    Says it all really.


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    #55
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    devnull wrote: »
    Live position on the maps and on the route diagrams only for Dublin Bus at present, real time info should show for Dublin Bus, Go-Ahead and also Bus Eireann where the service supports it. Cancellation information should show for DB and Go-Ahead too.

    What is your route?

    70/270. Has never shown a live bus on the map.


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    #56
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    devnull wrote: »
    I'd be curious what Go-Ahead are doing different from Dublin Bus.

    That's what I don't understand would think that GAIs fleet have the same AVL system as DB considering they're using the same wayfarers and the same on board announcements etc.


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    #57
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    One issue I've noticed is buses appearing ahead of their scheduled time on RTPI for example a few times it's happened me where a bus is due in 4 mins but then appears unexpectedly and remains up on the RTPI even though it has already left.
    Thrashssacre wrote: »
    I’ve had the same thing happen on the 76 been walking towards the stop look at my phone see I still have 5 or so mins then look up and see the bus flying past
    devnull wrote: »
    This is a Known issue with Go Ahead routes.
    Stephen15 wrote: »
    That's what I don't understand would think that GAIs fleet have the same AVL system as DB considering they're using the same wayfarers and the same on board announcements etc.

    I drive for them and I don't fully understand why this happens (it's obviously a glitch, rather than by design), but if a bus is running early, the displays and the app will default to the scheduled time of arrival, as opposed to the actual time. I get around this by sitting and waiting at the bus stop until I'm no longer running early - which is what we're supposed to do anyway.


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    #58
    harringtonp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭harringtonp


    devnull wrote: »
    I wonder if any third party App developers will be able to get hold of it and reproduce it in a more user friendly package?
    smackyB wrote: »
    The new app update has changed the data source for live times and locked it down

    Everything I've seen so far indicates that TFI want to go down the road of locking down transport data into their own apps with no regard for third party developers - at this rate the days of Next Bus Dublin and other unofficial apps may be numbered.

    From what has been indicated to me, the new GTFS Real time source of data should be made available in about 6 weeks. I'm wondering is it currently available internally and is this what the TFI app is currently using. Or is it using lower level raw data in a more direct fashion.

    https://yourstop.info uses GTFS which is what google maps use. Currently only scheduled information is available in this format for Ireland. Once the GTFS realtime datasets are made available, I would hope they can be plugged in without too much trouble. If you look at Thunderbay or Baltimore, you will get an idea of how it would be used.

    Without knowing much, the impression I get is that the old API could be obsoleted. If this is the case I could look into making the yourstop backend API available to others to also develop front ends against.


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    #59
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    On my route the bus is almost always a stop or two behind on the app compared to where it really is.

    I've found a couple of stops renamed to nearby buildings/side streets instead of the street they are actually on. My local stop has been renamed to the name of a nearby church, I'm absolutely disgusted, I thought we were supposed to be a secular country.

    Also the stops that kept their real names on the Dublin bus website and don't show up if you search for their real name in the TFI app.


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    #60
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    GarIT wrote: »
    On my route the bus is almost always a stop or two behind on the app compared to where it really is.

    There's always going to be a little lag on any system unfortunately and systems will not poll for updates every second, normally live position system poll a vehicle for updates every 30-60 seconds depending on the system, then it'll take a few more seconds to get to your device and the device itself will only refresh at a set interval.

    Every tracker is like this, from trains, to courier delivery live position to pretty much everything. It's just more apparent in DUblin to other places because some of our stops are so close together. In pretty much every EUropean country I have been to and also the UK, it's rare for stops to be close together like here.
    I've found a couple of stops renamed to nearby buildings/side streets instead of the street they are actually on. My local stop has been renamed to the name of a nearby church, I'm absolutely disgusted, I thought we were supposed to be a secular country.

    Also the stops that kept their real names on the Dublin bus website and don't show up if you search for their real name in the TFI app.

    I would argue that giving a road name is fairly generic and giving a landmark is a bit more precise in telling you where to look along that road. Some roads are very very long so it can be hard to know where to start for looking for a stop when you don't have any indicator as to roughly where it might be.


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    #61
    harringtonp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭harringtonp


    GarIT wrote: »
    On my route the bus is almost always a stop or two behind on the app compared to where it really is.

    This is because by the time the app refreshes the latest information, the bus has moved on.

    In YourStop originally just showed bus positions when known, then added an info window showing the time at that position (see image). In the current version give the second count too (when known) for the reason you mention. A bus can move a long way in a minute, particularly if nobody is looking to get off or board at a stop


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