TFI Real Time App Update - Shows Live Position and Cancellations

devnull

Just a note that the TFI Real Time Ireland App has now been updated and now includes new functionality which shows cancelled buses (see here) early terminated buses and variations (see here) as well as showing live positions of vehicles on a map (see here which I know are features many people here have been calling for.

In addition if you look up by route, the route diagram will show you all the vehicles on that route at the moment and where they are by showing a bus down the left hand side of the line diagram (see here)

To see positions of live vehicles on a map
- Select your stop
- Touch the service from the list of services on the departure list
- Hit the options menu on the map above the details for the departure
- Select 'show live vehicle positions'
- Vehicles are denoted as blue pictures of a bus (a white bus in a blue circle is a stop)

In my view the functionality is a major step forward but the usability of the app is still pretty poor and it's odd that showing live position is hidden by default. It's also not so obvious how to use it. Hopefully future releases will make it easier to use and retain the much improved functionality.

n!ghtmancometh

The updated TFI app is so badly designed and user unfriendly I never bothered exploring it and went back to the Dublin Bus app. I wonder if those vehicle positions are actually real time and accurate as opposed to the usual RTPI guestimation.

devnull

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

The updated TFI app is so badly designed and user unfriendly I never bothered exploring it and went back to the Dublin Bus app. I wonder if those vehicle positions are actually real time and accurate as opposed to the usual RTPI guestimation.

From my experience tonight it was correct, it only seems to work for Dublin Bus at the moment though as far as live Position is concerned, that functionality isn't there for Go-Ahead but short terminating vehicles and cancellations are showing up for Go-Ahead and route variations are being handled properly.

Agree that there are user friendliness issues, but the new app really provides many of the things that people have been looking for and have wanted for a long time, so the improved functionality that we all want is now there, it's just needs a better UI in order to make the most of it. In terms of functionality it's far better than the last one but harder to use.

The good news though is that the fact we're seeing live position and cancellations and early terminating being shown in an app, means that the information is there now, it just needs to be made more accessible. I wonder if any third party App developers will be able to get hold of it and reproduce it in a more user friendly package?

Stephen15

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

The updated TFI app is so badly designed and user unfriendly I never bothered exploring it and went back to the Dublin Bus app. I wonder if those vehicle positions are actually real time and accurate as opposed to the usual RTPI guestimation.

The Dublin Bus app is all well and good if all the routes you use are still with DB but is very user unfriendly if you use a mixture of DB and GAI operated services not to mention the Luas and the DART like myself and many others. For most people is very inconvenient to use two apps for what should be a unified bus services.

Don't get me wrong the TFI app is far from perfect but is a more convenient option for people like me. I personally find the app has the same level of accuracy for DB services but is only inaccurate for GAI services however I have noticed the last few times I've used GAI services the app has been more accurate.

The update is quite good telling people that buses have been cancelled or terminating early but is somewhat user unfriendly since the update for example all my favourites got deleted and I had to remark them which the updated version does not make easy to show people how to figure out. I would say certain people working in DB PR must be gritting their teeth at the fact the NTA is now informing people of cancelled buses which wouldn't look good on their part.

BonnieSituation

The bus stop symbol and the live bus symbol are too similar. That will have to be changed.

I'm slowly getting used to the app after 3 days use though.

Some great additions like route maps/diagrams on it.

Saw a cancelled 27 earlier on as well and was well impressed with the functionality.

I'd say it'll take a while for it to morph into the user friendly app we all want.

That will come with time and use.

n!ghtmancometh

Was tracking my morning bus while I was on it and live position is very accurate, so must be being fed actual location data. This is a very useful function, NTA should be shouting about this from the mountaintop once they clean up the apps UI a bit.

magicbastarder

one issue we have had with buses is in relation to variations being swapped in; e.g. a 9 is timetabled and displayed on the RTPI, but the bus that arrives is actually a 9C. i wonder if this app takes this into account?

Qrt

Is the update only on Android atm?

GLaDOS

Looks really impressive. Hopefully the Dublin bus app adopts similar, the TFI app is a pain to use.

BonnieSituation

So one UI thing I noticed this morning:
There's no refresh option on a favourite stop unless you click on the pencil icon. Not a big deal but definitely needs incorporating properly on both screens.

Also "drag down refresh" doesn't work as you would expect it to.

devnull

magicbastarder wrote: »

one issue we have had with buses is in relation to variations being swapped in; e.g. a 9 is timetabled and displayed on the RTPI, but the bus that arrives is actually a 9C. i wonder if this app takes this into account?

Yesterday I saw a couple of services which were showing that they were early terminating as well as the 7 which I posted a screenshot of, but the acid test for this kind of thing is to see an early terminating vehicle on the streets and then see if that is properly reflected in the app, be interested if it's reflected.

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So one UI thing I noticed this morning:
There's no refresh option on a favourite stop unless you click on the pencil icon. Not a big deal but definitely needs incorporating properly on both screens.

It seems to update itself without needing to refresh - On both the route diagrams and the live position maps I've seen it change whilst I'm looking at it a few times so there is probably an in-built update interval, I haven't had the time to figure out what it is exactly, but seems less than a minute.

BonnieSituation

devnull wrote: »

Yesterday I saw a couple of services which were showing that they were early terminating as well as the 7 which I posted a screenshot of, but the acid test for this kind of thing is to see an early terminating vehicle on the streets and then see if that is properly reflected in the app, be interested if it's reflected.





It seems to update itself without needing to refresh - On both the route diagrams and the live position maps I've seen it change whilst I'm looking at it a few times so there is probably an in-built update interval, I haven't had the time to figure out what it is exactly, but seems less than a minute.

I assumed it was tbh. But people are people and it should still have a manual refresh. Especially seeing as the functionality is on the other screen.

loyatemu

are there really 7 bus stops in the same place on the quays:

Stephen15

Also notice that services in the 6 also appear on the updated app albeit only timetabled departures and not real time info

bobbyss

When i tap live position all I see is a map of the stops the bus takes. Useless.

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

Also notice that services in the 6 also appear on the updated app albeit only timetabled departures and not real time info

Didn't notice that before, but that's another good feature.

I also notice that it's also saying for some services "Operates only on school days" or "Term Time Only Departure" and also listing variations for the North which is really very nice.

It's clear the functionality is far more developed in this app than the last one and the methodology used to return results is much more sophisticated. If they can get some improvements to the UI then we'll have an excellent app on our hands.

devnull

bobbyss wrote: »

When i tap live position all I see is a map of the stops the bus takes. Useless.

You need to hit the more menu on the map and select live position.

The live position vehicles are highlighted by a blue bus, whereas the stops are highlighted with a white bus in a blue circle. Note that this functionality currently only works for Dublin Bus services.

If you don't see any buses and only see stops try zooming out, it may be that there are no buses on that route in the area of the map that you are looking at.

sharper

I had a very similar app called "Journey Planner" also from TFI which totally confused me because I couldn't find that specific option.

Is there any way to filter out other routes? Even when I select a particular service it shows me all buses along that same route which makes it impossible to find the one I want.

devnull

sharper wrote: »

I had a very similar app called "Journey Planner" also from TFI which totally confused me because I couldn't find that specific option.

They've contracted out the provision of the Real Time Ireland app to the same company who made the Journey Planner app, hence the similariaties between the two.

Is there any way to filter out other routes? Even when I select a particular service it shows me all buses along that same route which makes it impossible to find the one I want.

Haven't been able to do that either - the DB web app allows you to do that though as does www.rtpi.ie but they are limited in other ways.

BowWow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The bus stop symbol and the live bus symbol are too similar. That will have to be changed.

Totally agree...


Also, my "Favourites" seems to be gone?

coylemj

BowWow wrote: »

Also, my "Favourites" seems to be gone?

+1 they got wiped in the previous update which was pushed out about a week ago. Any new favorites you stored since that update have survived the most recent update.

BowWow

coylemj wrote: »

+1 they got wiped in the previous update which was pushed out about a week ago. Any new favorites you stored since that update have survived the most recent update.

feck! :mad:

jack presley

Is this just on Android as I’m seeing none of these features in the iOS app?

devnull

BowWow wrote: »

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The bus stop symbol and the live bus symbol are too similar. That will have to be changed.

Totally agree...


Also, my "Favourites" seems to be gone?

This app is a new app rather than an update. Will need to set them up again I'm afraid but they will save going forward.

devnull

jack presley wrote: »

Is this just on Android as I’m seeing none of these features in the iOS app?

Seems to be. Don't have an Apple device to hand to check. Maybe it's still going through approval process.

BonnieSituation

Odd destination for the 79A here:

BonnieSituation

Also the 25A was stuck up at previous stop for a bit. I could see it from where I was waiting.

This is a nice touch. Better than saying "due" for an age.

devnull

They've added a fair few commercial operators onto the system now.

They don't show live times and seem to be going off timetables since there is no source of live data for them, but it's still handy to have them there even if it's not a live departure as such.

I've noticed some of the private shuttles are now showing up as well, Eastpoint for one is now on there, it's off indicative times rather than real time (and a note explans this).

I notice there is a filter option showing now too but it's only by mode.

sharper

Hopefully all this is going into their public API, then I can just wait for a third party app developer to add a sensible UI.

The TFI one looks exactly like what you might expect from some sort of steering committee producing generic requirements and sending them off to an outsourced contractor.

devnull

sharper wrote: »

Hopefully all this is going into their public API, then I can just wait for a third party app developer to add a sensible UI.

The TFI one looks exactly like what you might expect from some sort of steering committee producing generic requirements and sending them off to an outsourced contractor.

It's actually made by one of the most respected developers for Journey Planning and Real Time information, the same people who have developed the Journey Planning systems for TFL amongst many, many more..

sharper

devnull wrote: »

It's actually made by one of the most respected developers for Journey Planning and Real Time information, the same people who have developed the Journey Planning systems for TFL amongst many, many more..

The live departure and journey planner both seem ok if you want to get around without really knowing anything about Dublin or the options involved. I find them both cumbersome and unwieldy for my own use cases such as I know what bus I want to get to and where.

I haven't used their other applications so I don't know if the problem is TFI or the developer. I don't have an issue with the features, stability or performance of the application itself just the usability.

Next Bus Dublin is a great example of what a transport application can be when the focus is on users and usability.

markpb

devnull wrote: »

It's actually made by one of the most respected developers for Journey Planning and Real Time information, the same people who have developed the Journey Planning systems for TFL amongst many, many more..

They might be good technically but their UI is truly awful. The problem is that Google Maps is very good so most people base their experiences on that. Unfortunately the data going into Google Maps doesn't seem to be correct. It regularly sends me to bus stops when no bus is due. The list of problems with either their website or their mobile apps is endless.

BurnUp78

What's up with 75 buses? Yet again I'm sat at the bus stop and the bus just doesnt appear even though on the TFI app it says due. This is an at least weekly occurrence I've no idea why it happens anyone else have similar experiences? Happens with both the 75 and 75a from tallaght towards dun Laoghaire

devnull

markpb wrote: »

Unfortunately the data going into Google Maps doesn't seem to be correct. It regularly sends me to bus stops when no bus is due. The list of problems with either their website or their mobile apps is endless.

That's because Google Maps transit info for Dublin works off scheduled times rather than live times, since the main purpose of Google transit data is for journey planning rather than up to the minute information.

dazberry

There were 3 123s cancelled in a row today (for whatever reason DB didn't say). Naturally they just didn't appear on the on street displays or the Dublin Bus website but were listed in the TFI app as cancelled.

Mr.Crinklewood

Blue/white bus icons are hurting my head.

What does the little number beside the white bus icon mean?

sharper

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

What does the little number beside the white bus icon mean?

As far as I can see so far it means there are multiple buses at that location or stops for multiple routes. The exact position for each stop seems to be sometimes slightly off so in places it a shows a cluster of stops close together when of course they're all in exactly the same place.

If you tap the icon with the number you should get a list of routes.

smackyB

sharper wrote: »

Hopefully all this is going into their public API, then I can just wait for a third party app developer to add a sensible UI.

The TFI one looks exactly like what you might expect from some sort of steering committee producing generic requirements and sending them off to an outsourced contractor.

No sign of this information being made available in their public API. In fact at the moment they don't even have the resources to maintain the public API outside of office hours so they shut it off during evenings and weekends.

The new app update has changed the data source for live times and locked it down so I can't inspect where the network traffic is going - if anyone with better traffic sniffing skills than me would like to investigate what endpoint it's hitting I would be very interested!

Everything I've seen so far indicates that TFI want to go down the road of locking down transport data into their own apps with no regard for third party developers - at this rate the days of Next Bus Dublin and other unofficial apps may be numbered.

BonnieSituation

devnull wrote: »

Yesterday I saw a couple of services which were showing that they were early terminating as well as the 7 which I posted a screenshot of, but the acid test for this kind of thing is to see an early terminating vehicle on the streets and then see if that is properly reflected in the app, be interested if it's reflected.



It seems to update itself without needing to refresh - On both the route diagrams and the live position maps I've seen it change whilst I'm looking at it a few times so there is probably an in-built update interval, I haven't had the time to figure out what it is exactly, but seems less than a minute.

So I was having a look at this this morning while eating breakfast.

I checked my stop and then left it and then I went back to it about 10min later and it was still as it was.

So I don't think it's on autorefresh.

coylemj

BurnUp78 wrote: »

What's up with 75 buses? Yet again I'm sat at the bus stop and the bus just doesnt appear even though on the TFI app it says due. This is an at least weekly occurrence I've no idea why it happens anyone else have similar experiences? Happens with both the 75 and 75a from tallaght towards dun Laoghaire

I was waiting for a 75 yesterday, the TFI app said it was 1 minute away and the realtme dot was flashing which I took to indicate that this prediction was based on live data from RTPI. Next Bus Dublin said it was 6 minutes away.

One minute later, that 75 then disappeared from the TFI listing, presumably because they figured it had now passed me. Four minutes later, as predicted by NBD, it arrived.

There are usability issues I have with the updated TFI app but they've been pushed into the background by my experience yesterday. I simply won't use it all from now on as I have the paid version of NBD.

Stephen15

One issue I've noticed is buses appearing ahead of their scheduled time on RTPI for example a few times it's happened me where a bus is due in 4 mins but then appears unexpectedly and remains up on the RTPI even though it has already left.

Qrt

Stephen15 wrote: »

One issue I've noticed is buses appearing ahead of their scheduled time on RTPI for example a few times it's happened me where a bus is due in 4 mins but then appears unexpectedly and remains up on the RTPI even though it has already left.

175? I’ve noticed that a couple of times?

Stephen15

Qrt wrote: »

175? I’ve noticed that a couple of times?

No 63 and 75

BonnieSituation

That happened me on the 69 this morning!

Though I dismissed it as the 69 sometimes gets an odd clear run through Inchicore some mornings which would mess with the rtpi.

I'll keep an eye.

devnull

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So I was having a look at this this morning while eating breakfast.

I checked my stop and then left it and then I went back to it about 10min later and it was still as it was.

Odd - I've seen it refresh for me in front of my eyes.

Dublin Bus services seem to be using a different kind of data feed than the other providers at the moment, which is how the DB services are able to show live position of the vehicles on maps and the others are not.

For DB services this app is far better for me and more accurate and much more info than the old app and DB app (showing cancellations etc) but for Bus Eireann and Go-Ahead services there are still some kinks to iron out from what I have seen in relation to accuracy of data.

Thrashssacre

I’ve had the same thing happen on the 76 been walking towards the stop look at my phone see I still have 5 or so mins then look up and see the bus flying past

OldMrBrennan83

Does the live thing only work for some buses? There hasn't been a single one showing on my route in the three days I've been checking.

devnull

Thrashssacre wrote: »

I’ve had the same thing happen on the 76 been walking towards the stop look at my phone see I still have 5 or so mins then look up and see the bus flying past

This is a Known issue with Go Ahead routes.

coylemj

Thrashssacre wrote: »

I’ve had the same thing happen on the 76 been walking towards the stop look at my phone see I still have 5 or so mins then look up and see the bus flying past

devnull wrote: »

This is a Known issue with Go Ahead routes.

My experience is that it can happen with a G-A route (in my case the 75) when I'm using the TFI app, it does not happen with the Next Bus Dublin app. See post #40.

OldMrBrennan83

Does the live thing only work for some buses? There hasn't been a single one showing on my route in the three days I've been checking.

Qrt

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Does the live thing only work for some buses? There hasn't been a single one showing on my route in the three days I've been checking.

DB only afaik.