Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

Lord Glentoran · 20-02-2020 3:27pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

Sorry couldn't resist a bit of mischievous "copy and paste" for the day that's in it - RIP Larry Tesler.
Ireland’s Abandoned and Dismantled Railways
Description: This group is about railway lines in Ireland that are now in the history books.

Not for much longer!

westtip · 20-02-2020 7:26pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Not for much longer!

Yep it will be resurected....as a greenway no doubt.

blackwhite · 21-02-2020 2:28am

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Meanwhile in the FB group “Ireland’s Abandoned and Dismantled Railways” the following was posted with a nice selection of pictures. So that’s the assertion of ownership of the trackbed resolved for another long while

https://goo.gl/maps/GEVjA7Su8tNPQfEEA

They asserted ownership of the driveway here then? Impressive

ezstreet5 · 21-02-2020 11:08pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If you want to see what a standard lease looks like, just do a foi for any of the other lines already leased to other county councils. The conditions will be copy and paste across them

Of course I don't want to view that. I was only interested in the question of whether CIE had expended the effort to hash out a draft lease with the local authority over the QMG, which is entirely denied. And that question, because it might be indicative of CIE's viewpoint of whether reactivation of the rail line line was feasible.

I am equally not interested at all in general, one-page letters from CIE stating that revocable leases are possible. These are issued simply not to be an impediment to any planning application which may be submitted, which in this case, is none yet.

jmlfc · 24-02-2020 10:45am

blackwhite wrote: »

https://goo.gl/maps/GEVjA7Su8tNPQfEEA

They asserted ownership of the driveway here then? Impressive

Unbelievable, there's a few like that further north between Leyney and Collooney

intellectual dosser · 24-02-2020 12:22pm

I drove on that stretch of road between Curry and Tubbercurry yesterday, if the railway was ever re-instated it would be very interesting to see how they'd do it.

So many crossings of minor roads and paths, the vicinity to property etc. It may take a complete re-think.

serfboard · 24-02-2020 1:30pm

intellectual dosser wrote: »

So many crossings of minor roads and paths, the vicinity to property etc. It may take a complete re-think.

It's called alignment - and so many of us on here have argued that the existing alignments are not suitable, even if you think the numbers are there for a WRC.

If you look at our Motorways, we built them on new, superior alignments, so it should be no different for the rail service.

As for the existing alignments - they can be used as Greenways.

intellectual dosser · 24-02-2020 1:43pm

serfboard wrote: »

It's called alignment - and so many of us on here have argued that the existing alignments are not suitable, even if you think the numbers are there for a WRC.

If you look at our Motorways, we built them on new, superior alignments, so it should be no different for the rail service.

As for the existing alignments - they can be used as Greenways.

I understand that it may not work for every km of track, but if the existing 'alignment' is used then a rail connection could be put in place at a far lower cost and a fraction of the delivery time.

serfboard · 24-02-2020 2:27pm

intellectual dosser wrote: »

if the existing 'alignment' is used then a rail connection could be put in place at a far lower cost and a fraction of the delivery time.

Fine - if you like your trains trundling along at nineteenth-century speeds, while everyone else flies by in the car @ 120 km/h or the bus @ 100km/h.

And then you'll wonder why no-one is using the train ...

intellectual dosser · 24-02-2020 3:50pm

serfboard wrote: »

Fine - if you like your trains trundling along at nineteenth-century speeds, while everyone else flies by in the car @ 120 km/h or the bus @ 100km/h.

And then you'll wonder why no-one is using the train ...

Its pretty clear that my preference is to put trains back in service in the west, to develop the region and arrest this 'desertification' that has been happening for decades.

I acknowledge the business case isn't a hum dinger, its not. I think an investment would be for a future return, to support future growth rather than being a profitable product on Day 1.

I have to be practical. Thats not going to happen for a brand new greenfield railway line. But the land is there on the WRC, for much of it it hasnt been relatively that long since trains last ran.

I will say this. If greenways are decided as the way forward for this stretch of land, lets get on with it so we can all get some use and enjoyment out of it.

eastwest · 24-02-2020 6:25pm

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Its pretty clear that my preference is to put trains back in service in the west, to develop the region and arrest this 'desertification' that has been happening for decades.

I acknowledge the business case isn't a hum dinger, its not. I think an investment would be for a future return, to support future growth rather than being a profitable product on Day 1.

I have to be practical. Thats not going to happen for a brand new greenfield railway line. But the land is there on the WRC, for much of it it hasnt been relatively that long since trains last ran.

I will say this. If greenways are decided as the way forward for this stretch of land, lets get on with it so we can all get some use and enjoyment out of it.

That's the problem. Once there are two points of view, the government will do nothing. It needs one side to concede that their aspiration is unrealistic, but it is unlikely that the rail lobby will do that.
Stalemate, and money going everywhere else, seems to be the most likely outcome.

serfboard · 24-02-2020 7:04pm

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I acknowledge the business case isn't a hum dinger, its not. I think an investment would be for a future return, to support future growth rather than being a profitable product on Day 1.

I have to be practical. Thats not going to happen for a brand new greenfield railway line. But the land is there on the WRC, for much of it it hasnt been relatively that long since trains last ran.

There's where we disagree. You can spend small amounts of money and do a bad job, or spend a lot of money and do it right.

In the case of the motorway network, we spent a lot of money to do it right.

We should also do that in the case of rail, where the numbers are there to support it, rail being a volume business.

The numbers that are there to support rail development for the West Of Ireland are in double-tracking Athlone to Portarlington.

The numbers were not there to re-develop the section south of Athenry, and they are certainly not there for the section north of Athenry.

Carawaystick · 25-02-2020 1:54am

serfboard wrote: »

In the case of the motorway network, we spent a lot of money to do it right.

I disagree that we spent a lot of money to do it right.
TII/NRA didn't build rest areas/service areas while building the network and then spent loads retrofitting overdesigned, and badly designed service areas; not looking at international best practice.

Eg M8 has no online rest areas
M6 Athlone rest area not needed, as there are several service areas on the N6 at Athone

The petrol pumps are built about 1.5m too close to the buildings for the M1/M4 service areas, making accessing and exiting the parking spaces at the building more awkward than necessary

I could go on, but this entire post is O/T

Lord Glentoran · 25-02-2020 9:11am

Carawaystick wrote: »

I disagree that we spent a lot of money to do it right.
TII/NRA didn't build rest areas/service areas while building the network and then spent loads retrofitting overdesigned, and badly designed service areas; not looking at international best practice.

Eg M8 has no online rest areas
M6 Athlone rest area not needed, as there are several service areas on the N6 at Athone

The petrol pumps are built about 1.5m too close to the buildings for the M1/M4 service areas, making accessing and exiting the parking spaces at the building more awkward than necessary

I could go on, but this entire post is O/T

The policy was simply to build as many Mosherways as possible irrespective of the cost. That’s why inline services were neglected.

Muckyboots · 25-02-2020 10:37am

Closed for wheels on steel at Kiltartan today. Passengers suffering softy tyres and a fold-back tray for a little while. https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/1232022598743154688 Please don't take my "anti-rail" posts seriously.

Greaney · 25-02-2020 11:21am

Muckyboots wrote: »

Closed for wheels on steel at Kiltartan today. Passengers suffering softy tyres and a fold-back tray for a little while. https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/1232022598743154688 Please don't take my "anti-rail" posts seriously.

Indeed, Sligo to Connolly (Dublin) is also flooding.

25-02-2020 11:59am

https://galwaydaily.com/news/bus-transfers-operating-on-all-galway-limerick-rail-services-today/

Bus transfers on all services today between Gort and Athenry because of flooding

The irony here being the emergency bus service being faster and more efficient than the normal service

loyatemu · 25-02-2020 12:19pm

is this the spot where the line was closed for 5 months a couple of years back?

serfboard · 25-02-2020 12:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Bus transfers on all services today between Gort and Athenry because of flooding

Not just today:

IrishRail wrote:

Services between Gort and Athenry are operating as bus transfers until further notice, due to flooding at Kiltartan

This is what you get when you do a half-arsed job and insist that the track must follow the "traditional" alignment.

eastwest · 25-02-2020 12:59pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

The policy was simply to build as many Mosherways as possible irrespective of the cost. That’s why inline services were neglected.

Same madness that gave us the wrc.

Del.Monte · 25-02-2020 2:30pm

24 February 2020
Bus Transfers will operate between Gort and Athenry until further notice Services between Gort and Athenry are operating as bus transfers until further notice, due to flooding at Kiltartan. Iarnród Éireann apologise for any inconvenience caused.

https://www.irishrail.ie/news/service-updates

serfboard · 25-02-2020 2:33pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

24 February 2020
Bus Transfers will operate between Gort and Athenry until further notice

Already posted literally two posts previous ...

easypazz · 25-02-2020 5:17pm

serfboard wrote: »

Not just today:

This is what you get when you do a half-arsed job and insist that the track must follow the "traditional" alignment.

I dont get your whinge in this instance.

The track was still in (infrequent) use and fully in Irish Rail ownership.

A relatively cheap upgrade.

easypazz · 25-02-2020 5:19pm

loyatemu wrote: »

is this the spot where the line was closed for 5 months a couple of years back?

No thats below Ennis, expect that to flood and stay flooded. Unless they have done remedial works.

serfboard · 25-02-2020 6:19pm

easypazz wrote: »

A relatively cheap upgrade.

'Twas indeed, and it has all the signs of it. Apart from being 40 minutes or more slower than the bus, it is currently out of use.

ohographite · 25-02-2020 11:25pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://galwaydaily.com/news/bus-transfers-operating-on-all-galway-limerick-rail-services-today/

Bus transfers on all services today between Gort and Athenry because of flooding

The irony here being the emergency bus service being faster and more efficient than the normal service

The bus will not be faster if it has to stop in Ardrahan and Craughwell.

serfboard · 26-02-2020 11:55am

ohographite wrote: »

The bus will not be faster if it has to stop in Ardrahan and Craughwell.

It will have to stop in Ardrahan and Craughwell to fulfill its service obligations. And the most direct road route between Ardrahan and Craughwell is the R347 - a twisty, godawful road.

dowlingm · 27-02-2020 6:55am

serfboard wrote: »

This is what you get when you do a half-arsed job and insist that the track must follow the "traditional" alignment.

The line could have been elevated at Kiltartan (Same place it flooded right before service recommenced) and done without two level crossings to boot - but then it wouldn’t have been possible to do it for the barebones budget the WRC people extracted from government (and even if they had the line could still close between Ennis and Limerick anyway given that section’s history of closures)

01-03-2020 1:24pm

Irish Rail warns bus transfers between Athenry and Limerick may remain for ‘long time’

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/irish-rail-warns-bus-transfers-between-athenry-and-limerick-may-remain-for-long-time/

Isambard · 01-03-2020 3:31pm

serfboard wrote: »

It will have to stop in Ardrahan and Craughwell to fulfill its service obligations. And the most direct road route between Ardrahan and Craughwell is the R347 - a twisty, godawful road.

maybe it's not a case of "it" but more that one of the replacement buses must call there, but the others , if there are more than one, can go direct. Or send the handful of passengers for those stations off in a taxi or two

Greaney · 01-03-2020 5:45pm

Isambard wrote: »

maybe it's not a case of "it" but more that one of the replacement buses must call there, but the others , if there are more than one, can go direct. Or send the handful of passengers for those stations off in a taxi or two

I'd say they'll need buses. A huge amount of their passangers are students. I known 25+ get off in Athenry for school/college etc. Dunno about third level in Galway but since they slashed the prices for students, numbers shot up and are now stay at home students, choosing to go to Galway or Limerick. Indeed, I know of students who cannot afford accommdation in Galway and are renting in Athenry and getting the train because it's a more affordable option.

Muckyboots · 06-03-2020 10:47am

The UK gov refused £100m (loan) to a company that facilitates vital regional connectivity to and from 56 cities and large towns there. Do we really believe that the Irish government will lump a similar amount to connect three small towns in the west of Ireland?

galwaytt · 06-03-2020 11:27am

serfboard wrote: »

It will have to stop in Ardrahan and Craughwell to fulfill its service obligations. And the most direct road route between Ardrahan and Craughwell is the R347 - a twisty, godawful road.

A bus won't pass the R347 from Craughwell to Ardrahan at this bridge: https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.1679475,-8.7854726,3a,75y,352.7h,83.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_H-IMoH5_ZP7A6oFLW8XnQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0

I've seen buses come as far as it and then having to reverse up and U-turn.

galwaytt · 06-03-2020 11:30am

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

The policy was simply to build as many Mosherways as possible irrespective of the cost. That’s why inline services were neglected.

We need motorways, and we are still not finished needing them. Limerick - Cork is a decade overdue, and the road a safety nightmare.

There is more to Ireland than chucking billions at the area in & around the M50.

donvito99 · 06-03-2020 1:37pm

galwaytt wrote: »

We need motorways, and we are still not finished needing them. Limerick - Cork is a decade overdue, and the road a safety nightmare.

There is more to Ireland than chucking billions at the area in & around the M50.

Aside from the M50, the motorways/DCs approaching the M50 and their junctions, I think its fair to say that the majority of the billions have been "chucked" in places other than Dublin.

06-03-2020 1:44pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

The UK gov refused £100m (loan) to a company that facilitates vital regional connectivity to and from 56 cities and large towns there. Do we really believe that the Irish government will lump a similar amount to connect three small towns in the west of Ireland?

A bit OT but the loan was challenged by other airlines as unfair assistance, so was blocked.

Muckyboots · 06-03-2020 5:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

A bit OT but the loan was challenged by other airlines as unfair assistance, so was blocked.

The loan was objected to by other carriers and was renaged on (like most of Boris's promises to date) and not blocked. It never got to reach that point. I'd imagine bus operators running along the WRC would feel the same about a €100m lump thrown at something that at best would only eat into their public service business.

serfboard · 06-03-2020 7:08pm

galwaytt wrote: »

A bus won't pass the R347 from Craughwell to Ardrahan at this bridge: https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.1679475,-8.7854726,3a,75y,352.7h,83.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_H-IMoH5_ZP7A6oFLW8XnQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0

I've seen buses come as far as it and then having to reverse up and U-turn.

The irony being that the bridge in question is ... the railway bridge!

I wonder what route the bus is taking instead? If anyone on here who advocates for the service actually used it, we could ask them!

end of the road · 06-03-2020 8:11pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

The loan was objected to by other carriers and was renaged on (like most of Boris's promises to date) and not blocked. It never got to reach that point. I'd imagine bus operators running along the WRC would feel the same about a €100m lump thrown at something that at best would only eat into their public service business.

it's not as if they haven't benefited from massive infrastructural investment themselves in the form of the motor ways, so they have little to nothing to be whining about really.

eastwest · 12-03-2020 8:31pm

I see that this weeks Connacht Tribune has the leaks from the rail report.
What took them so long? That info has been doing the rounds for two months at least.
"Review sees no future for rail" it says.
So, tell us something new.

ShaneC1600 · 13-03-2020 9:51pm

eastwest wrote: »

I see that this weeks Connacht Tribune has the leaks from the rail report.
What took them so long? That info has been doing the rounds for two months at least.
"Review sees no future for rail" it says.
So, tell us something new.

I went and got the Connacht Tribune on the back of this post only to find it's just more spoof. Paper doesn't refuse ink I suppose. Some people have way to much time on their hands. I'm surprised the TH didnt print the same crap! At a time when the country is in crisis people actually waste time writing this crap for the papers.

eastwest · 13-03-2020 10:29pm

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

I went and got the Connacht Tribune on the back of this post only to find it's just more spoof. Paper doesn't refuse ink I suppose. Some people have way to much time on their hands. I'm surprised the TH didnt print the same crap! At a time when the country is in crisis people actually waste time writing this crap for the papers.

It just echoes the leaks that have been dripping out of DTTAS for a couple of months, and that are getting more prevalent in the last couple of weeks.
Two things are absolutely certain. Firstly, there isn't a single rumour around the Dail or the Department that contradicts this information. And secondly, if there was any positive news in the report, the west on track politicians in the Dail would be singing it from the rooftops.
There is apparently a push by some people in the Dept to get this report released before the government formation cards fall Sean Canney's way and he manages to shut it down again. I imagine this particular leak is part of that move.

westtip · 19-03-2020 11:26am

Hope all are well, so this is it folks, with the spend currently on CV19 we can all rest assured, no railway, no greenway, no velorail. no more arguments or disagreements. No money, simple as, stay well stay protected and practice safe social distancing, which probably also means the birth rate will drop.

19-03-2020 2:24pm

westtip wrote: »

which probably also means the birth rate will drop.

I was thinking the opposite, it's going to sky rocket because there's f all else to do

Grandeeod · 19-03-2020 10:00pm

westtip wrote: »

Hope all are well, so this is it folks, with the spend currently on CV19 we can all rest assured, no railway, no greenway, no velorail. no more arguments or disagreements. No money, simple as, stay well stay protected and practice safe social distancing, which probably also means the birth rate will drop.

Nice post. A fitting end to the thread because you are absolutely right.

Isambard · 19-03-2020 11:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I was thinking the opposite, it's going to sky rocket because there's f all else to do

not if you have to stay 2 metres apart.....I mean , mine would hardly reach.

eastwest · 20-03-2020 11:22am

Grandeeod wrote: »

Nice post. A fitting end to the thread because you are absolutely right.

But but but but...
They have the LUAS up in Dublin!

Lord Glentoran · 21-03-2020 12:39pm

Quote: DaCor

I was thinking the opposite, it's going to sky rocket because there's f all else to do

Well there’s always the rigging...

eastwest · 21-03-2020 1:04pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Quote: DaCor

I was thinking the opposite, it's going to sky rocket because there's f all else to do

Well there’s always the rigging...

Or the planking, even.

galwaytt · 27-03-2020 10:35am

westtip wrote: »

Hope all are well, so this is it folks, with the spend currently on CV19 we can all rest assured, no railway, no greenway, no velorail. no more arguments or disagreements. No money, simple as, stay well stay protected and practice safe social distancing, which probably also means the birth rate will drop.

Whilst I agree a rail and velo solution are dead in the water, once we're out of CV-19 they'll be looking for 'schemes' left/right/centre to put people on & money into, to reduce the Live Register.

A Greenway would soak up a few bodies for a while.

CV-19 isn't the end of everything: it's a (big) Pause on everything.

Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

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