Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

Greaney · 20-02-2020 10:36AM

Muckyboots wrote: »

CIE Property own the line and they have already agreed in principle and in writing on a lease to a local authority should they decide to use it for a greenway.

So there's no lease!

You could argue there's an agreement in principal and in writing that the WRC will open.... but that wouldn't wash with the Quietman greenway campaign.

20-02-2020 10:54AM

Greaney wrote: »

So there's no lease!

You can argue there's an agreement in principal and in writing that the WRC will open.... but that doesn't wash with the Quietman greenway campaign.

Scratching my head at this one. You ok?

Muckyboots · 20-02-2020 11:48AM

Originally Posted by ezstreet5
Ah, I see. A conditional agreement to discuss a future agreement which would be in the form of a lease or license. It's akin to an agreement to "Let's talk later," and I wouldn't attribute a lot of weight to it. I suppose it's better than agreeing to disagree. Which is what we should do.

Muckyboots wrote: »

Now you are parsing something you haven't yet seen but yes, it's irrelevant *without a will to proceed. Agreed.

*On that note. https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/county-council-to-seek-funding-for-quiet-man-greenway-feasibility-study/

westtip · 20-02-2020 12:13PM

Muckyboots wrote: »

Originally Posted by ezstreet5
Ah, I see. A conditional agreement to discuss a future agreement which would be in the form of a lease or license. It's akin to an agreement to "Let's talk later," and I wouldn't attribute a lot of weight to it. I suppose it's better than agreeing to disagree. Which is what we should do.

*On that note. https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/county-council-to-seek-funding-for-quiet-man-greenway-feasibility-study/

They should read this one too the more recent move by the council to seek seed funding for the project, interesting thing about the most recent council meeting was an attempt to block the application for this funding on the grounds the rail report is not availabe....it is of course it is just being held back. They will try to kick the can forever to prevent anything happening, read how one cllr tried to stop it on these grounds.

Sligo eye · 20-02-2020 12:35PM

A policy is different to a lease. There is NO lease to anyone from CIE regarding Athenry to Claremorris.

westtip · 20-02-2020 12:51PM

Sligo eye wrote: »

A policy is different to a lease. There is NO lease to anyone from CIE regarding Athenry to Claremorris.

Did anyone say there was yet? There will be in due course.

Muckyboots · 20-02-2020 12:59PM

Sligo eye wrote: »

A policy is different to a lease. There is NO lease to anyone from CIE regarding Athenry to Claremorris.

It's not a policy - it's a statement of fact. You may need some mindfulness exercises in acceptance. The Quiet Man Greenway is firmly on the table for consideration. Now we wait.....or lobby furiously behind the scenes.

Lord Glentoran · 20-02-2020 01:44PM

Meanwhile in the FB group “Ireland’s Abandoned and Dismantled Railways” the following was posted with a nice selection of pictures. So that’s the assertion of ownership of the trackbed resolved for another long while

Vegetation clearance work on the Claremorris to Collooney railway (Burma road) is ongoing with the road rail machine about one mile south of the former Charlestown station today 18/02/2020.
See photos for captions.

20-02-2020 02:49PM

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Meanwhile in the FB group “Ireland’s Abandoned and Dismantled Railways” the following was posted with a nice selection of pictures. So that’s the assertion of ownership of the trackbed resolved for another long while

Yup saw those, shows how nice it will be to cycle and walk the route

Muckyboots · 20-02-2020 02:54PM

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Meanwhile in the FB group “Ireland’s Abandoned and Dismantled Railways” the following was posted with a nice selection of pictures. So that’s the assertion of ownership of the trackbed resolved for another long while

Sorry couldn't resist a bit of mischievous "copy and paste" for the day that's in it - RIP Larry Tesler.
Ireland’s Abandoned and Dismantled Railways
Description: This group is about railway lines in Ireland that are now in the history books.

Lord Glentoran · 20-02-2020 03:27PM

Muckyboots wrote: »

Sorry couldn't resist a bit of mischievous "copy and paste" for the day that's in it - RIP Larry Tesler.
Ireland’s Abandoned and Dismantled Railways
Description: This group is about railway lines in Ireland that are now in the history books.

Not for much longer!

westtip · 20-02-2020 07:26PM

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Not for much longer!

Yep it will be resurected....as a greenway no doubt.

blackwhite · 21-02-2020 02:28AM

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Meanwhile in the FB group “Ireland’s Abandoned and Dismantled Railways” the following was posted with a nice selection of pictures. So that’s the assertion of ownership of the trackbed resolved for another long while

https://goo.gl/maps/GEVjA7Su8tNPQfEEA

They asserted ownership of the driveway here then? Impressive

ezstreet5 · 21-02-2020 11:08PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If you want to see what a standard lease looks like, just do a foi for any of the other lines already leased to other county councils. The conditions will be copy and paste across them

Of course I don't want to view that. I was only interested in the question of whether CIE had expended the effort to hash out a draft lease with the local authority over the QMG, which is entirely denied. And that question, because it might be indicative of CIE's viewpoint of whether reactivation of the rail line line was feasible.

I am equally not interested at all in general, one-page letters from CIE stating that revocable leases are possible. These are issued simply not to be an impediment to any planning application which may be submitted, which in this case, is none yet.

jmlfc · 24-02-2020 10:45AM

blackwhite wrote: »

https://goo.gl/maps/GEVjA7Su8tNPQfEEA

They asserted ownership of the driveway here then? Impressive

Unbelievable, there's a few like that further north between Leyney and Collooney

intellectual dosser · 24-02-2020 12:22PM

I drove on that stretch of road between Curry and Tubbercurry yesterday, if the railway was ever re-instated it would be very interesting to see how they'd do it.

So many crossings of minor roads and paths, the vicinity to property etc. It may take a complete re-think.

serfboard · 24-02-2020 01:30PM

intellectual dosser wrote: »

So many crossings of minor roads and paths, the vicinity to property etc. It may take a complete re-think.

It's called alignment - and so many of us on here have argued that the existing alignments are not suitable, even if you think the numbers are there for a WRC.

If you look at our Motorways, we built them on new, superior alignments, so it should be no different for the rail service.

As for the existing alignments - they can be used as Greenways.

intellectual dosser · 24-02-2020 01:43PM

serfboard wrote: »

It's called alignment - and so many of us on here have argued that the existing alignments are not suitable, even if you think the numbers are there for a WRC.

If you look at our Motorways, we built them on new, superior alignments, so it should be no different for the rail service.

As for the existing alignments - they can be used as Greenways.

I understand that it may not work for every km of track, but if the existing 'alignment' is used then a rail connection could be put in place at a far lower cost and a fraction of the delivery time.

serfboard · 24-02-2020 02:27PM

intellectual dosser wrote: »

if the existing 'alignment' is used then a rail connection could be put in place at a far lower cost and a fraction of the delivery time.

Fine - if you like your trains trundling along at nineteenth-century speeds, while everyone else flies by in the car @ 120 km/h or the bus @ 100km/h.

And then you'll wonder why no-one is using the train ...

intellectual dosser · 24-02-2020 03:50PM

serfboard wrote: »

Fine - if you like your trains trundling along at nineteenth-century speeds, while everyone else flies by in the car @ 120 km/h or the bus @ 100km/h.

And then you'll wonder why no-one is using the train ...

Its pretty clear that my preference is to put trains back in service in the west, to develop the region and arrest this 'desertification' that has been happening for decades.

I acknowledge the business case isn't a hum dinger, its not. I think an investment would be for a future return, to support future growth rather than being a profitable product on Day 1.

I have to be practical. Thats not going to happen for a brand new greenfield railway line. But the land is there on the WRC, for much of it it hasnt been relatively that long since trains last ran.

I will say this. If greenways are decided as the way forward for this stretch of land, lets get on with it so we can all get some use and enjoyment out of it.

eastwest · 24-02-2020 06:25PM

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Its pretty clear that my preference is to put trains back in service in the west, to develop the region and arrest this 'desertification' that has been happening for decades.

I acknowledge the business case isn't a hum dinger, its not. I think an investment would be for a future return, to support future growth rather than being a profitable product on Day 1.

I have to be practical. Thats not going to happen for a brand new greenfield railway line. But the land is there on the WRC, for much of it it hasnt been relatively that long since trains last ran.

I will say this. If greenways are decided as the way forward for this stretch of land, lets get on with it so we can all get some use and enjoyment out of it.

That's the problem. Once there are two points of view, the government will do nothing. It needs one side to concede that their aspiration is unrealistic, but it is unlikely that the rail lobby will do that.
Stalemate, and money going everywhere else, seems to be the most likely outcome.

serfboard · 24-02-2020 07:04PM

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I acknowledge the business case isn't a hum dinger, its not. I think an investment would be for a future return, to support future growth rather than being a profitable product on Day 1.

I have to be practical. Thats not going to happen for a brand new greenfield railway line. But the land is there on the WRC, for much of it it hasnt been relatively that long since trains last ran.

There's where we disagree. You can spend small amounts of money and do a bad job, or spend a lot of money and do it right.

In the case of the motorway network, we spent a lot of money to do it right.

We should also do that in the case of rail, where the numbers are there to support it, rail being a volume business.

The numbers that are there to support rail development for the West Of Ireland are in double-tracking Athlone to Portarlington.

The numbers were not there to re-develop the section south of Athenry, and they are certainly not there for the section north of Athenry.

Carawaystick · 25-02-2020 01:54AM

serfboard wrote: »

In the case of the motorway network, we spent a lot of money to do it right.

I disagree that we spent a lot of money to do it right.
TII/NRA didn't build rest areas/service areas while building the network and then spent loads retrofitting overdesigned, and badly designed service areas; not looking at international best practice.

Eg M8 has no online rest areas
M6 Athlone rest area not needed, as there are several service areas on the N6 at Athone

The petrol pumps are built about 1.5m too close to the buildings for the M1/M4 service areas, making accessing and exiting the parking spaces at the building more awkward than necessary

I could go on, but this entire post is O/T

Lord Glentoran · 25-02-2020 09:11AM

Carawaystick wrote: »

I disagree that we spent a lot of money to do it right.
TII/NRA didn't build rest areas/service areas while building the network and then spent loads retrofitting overdesigned, and badly designed service areas; not looking at international best practice.

Eg M8 has no online rest areas
M6 Athlone rest area not needed, as there are several service areas on the N6 at Athone

The petrol pumps are built about 1.5m too close to the buildings for the M1/M4 service areas, making accessing and exiting the parking spaces at the building more awkward than necessary

I could go on, but this entire post is O/T

The policy was simply to build as many Mosherways as possible irrespective of the cost. That’s why inline services were neglected.

Muckyboots · 25-02-2020 10:37AM

Closed for wheels on steel at Kiltartan today. Passengers suffering softy tyres and a fold-back tray for a little while. https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/1232022598743154688 Please don't take my "anti-rail" posts seriously.

Greaney · 25-02-2020 11:21AM

Muckyboots wrote: »

Closed for wheels on steel at Kiltartan today. Passengers suffering softy tyres and a fold-back tray for a little while. https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/1232022598743154688 Please don't take my "anti-rail" posts seriously.

Indeed, Sligo to Connolly (Dublin) is also flooding.

25-02-2020 11:59AM

https://galwaydaily.com/news/bus-transfers-operating-on-all-galway-limerick-rail-services-today/

Bus transfers on all services today between Gort and Athenry because of flooding

The irony here being the emergency bus service being faster and more efficient than the normal service

loyatemu · 25-02-2020 12:19PM

is this the spot where the line was closed for 5 months a couple of years back?

serfboard · 25-02-2020 12:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Bus transfers on all services today between Gort and Athenry because of flooding

Not just today:

IrishRail wrote:

Services between Gort and Athenry are operating as bus transfers until further notice, due to flooding at Kiltartan

This is what you get when you do a half-arsed job and insist that the track must follow the "traditional" alignment.

eastwest · 25-02-2020 12:59PM

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

The policy was simply to build as many Mosherways as possible irrespective of the cost. That’s why inline services were neglected.

Same madness that gave us the wrc.

Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

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