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Lidl e-scooter this week

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    #32
    Yellow Dog
    Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭Yellow Dog


    Technocentral wrote: »
    Stay off the paths please.

    Stay off the roads please.


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    #33
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,317 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Jaywalking is also illegal in Ireland. I wouldn't worry about it.

    No it’s not.


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    #34
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    123654789 wrote: »
    It sounds very like another old legal quandary.

    It's legal to buy it, it's legal to own it, and if you're the proprietor of a Lidl, it's legal to sell it.

    It's legal to scoot on it, but...but that dosen't matter, cause, get a load of this; all right, if you get stopped by a cop in Ireland, it's illegal for them to detain you. I mean that's a right the cops in Ireland don't have.

    They can detain you if you don't have a licence.

    There's some really bad advice and awful takes on this thread.


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    #35
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,915 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    123654789 wrote: »
    It sounds very like another old legal quandary.

    It's legal to buy it, it's legal to own it, and if you're the proprietor of a Lidl, it's legal to sell it.

    It's legal to scoot on it, but...but that dosen't matter, cause, get a load of this; all right, if you get stopped by a cop in Ireland, it's illegal for them to detain you. I mean that's a right the cops in Ireland don't have.

    You can use them on private property which is defined as somewhere the public doesn't have access to.


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    #36
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,915 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Mongfinder General wrote: »
    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2019/72/

    This is where we're at in terms of legalisation. The bill lapsed because the government dissolved. The process will be quickly resurrected. There is going to be absolute murder in this country come September when kids go back to school. Unless social distancing is abandoned, public transport will not be an option. That means a huge jump in journeys via private transport. Effective gridlock. Greens will wallop petrol, diesel etc with taxes too.

    There's already a legal way for kids to get to schools by either walking, cycling or using a pedal assisted bicycle which are also much safer as they have bigger wheels. No need to buy an illegal vehicle for them, the exercise will do them good.


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    #37
    Higgins5473
    Registered Users Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Higgins5473


    Peregrine wrote: »
    They can detain you if you don't have a licence.

    There's some really bad advice and awful takes on this thread.

    How can request a licence for a licence that doesn’t exist yet? Not doubting your claim, it’s a question.


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    #38
    ongarite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,213 ✭✭✭ongarite


    Holy ****, take this legal/illegal talk to the commuter forum.

    For the money IMO it's not great.
    13km stated range is probably 10km in real life conditions.
    You can get a Mi 365 for not a huge amount more that will do twice the distance.
    Mi 365 has a huge online maintenance, modding and spare parts community that makes it the e-scooter to own.


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    #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ted1 wrote: »
    No it’s not.

    "On a roadway on which a traffic sign number RPC 001 [pedestrian crossing] has been provided, a pedestrian shall not cross the roadway within 15 metres of the crossing, except by the crossing."

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print
    Peregrine wrote:
    Not comparable. Nobody gets fined for not using a pedestrian crossing while within 15 metres of one or crossing while the light is red. And the penalty is much less.

    And there have been at most a handful of fines given out to thousands of people who use e-scooters. It is directly comparable because neither law is fully enforced.


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    #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Higgins5473 wrote: »
    How can request a licence for a licence that doesn’t exist yet? Not doubting your claim, it’s a question.

    Category A license is required. Not all vehicles have their very own category
    Del2005 wrote: »
    You can use them on private property which is defined as somewhere the public doesn't have access to.

    That's not the definition of a public road or a public place.
    grogi wrote: »
    They aren't technically illegal. Practically illegal thought...

    One can use them provided that insurance and tax are in order. Securing those is close to impossible..

    And you have a license, lights, indicator's, horn or bell, etc.

    Lots needed to make then legit options at the moment
    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    And there have been at most a handful of fines given out to thousands of people who use e-scooters. It is directly comparable because neither law is fully enforced.

    There's been hundreds and you also have the inconveniences and cost of the scooter being seized.


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    #41
    BobCobb
    Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭BobCobb


    123654789 wrote: »
    It sounds very like another old legal quandary.

    It's legal to buy it, it's legal to own it, and if you're the proprietor of a Lidl, it's legal to sell it.

    It's legal to scoot on it, but...but that dosen't matter, cause, get a load of this; all right, if you get stopped by a cop in Ireland, it's illegal for them to detain you. I mean that's a right the cops in Ireland don't have.

    Oh, man, I'm gettin' one, that's all there is to it. I'm ****in' gettin' one.


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    #42
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,637 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    Back to the original topic.

    What's the warranty like on these?

    That might make it attractive over the other options as Lidl are good at honouring warranties.

    10km range is perfect for what I would use it for.


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    #43
    Higgins5473
    Registered Users Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Higgins5473


    mrcheez wrote: »
    Back to the original topic.

    What's the warranty like on these?

    That might make it attractive over the other options as Lidl are good at honouring warranties.

    10km range is perfect for what I would use it for.

    A brief search on adverts told me there is far better value to be had from reputable brands with online reviews. I wouldn’t be in a hurry to buy this.


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    #44
    ibrahimovic
    Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭ibrahimovic


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/13/tv-presenter-emily-hartridge-dies-in-scooter-crash


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    #45
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,882 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Why do people buy these compared to a decent bike?

    -The bike doesnt care about rain or puddles, the scooter could be dead after one soaking.

    -You can pass a decent bike on to your grandkids if you maintain it, they never let you down and if something goes wrong its an easy fix, the battery in these is degrading faster than a mobile phones every charge cycle then its into a skip and you're left with nothing.

    -Even with moderate pedaling the bike is faster with way better range if you'e any way healthy, and it makes you fitter and healthier as you use it.

    -Irish roads are a mess, you need big wheels for stability, tiny scooter wheels can fling you under a car if you hit a drain or pothole.

    -The Guards arent going to seize your bike when they see you on it.

    -Bikes can carry moderate loads of shopping etc.

    -You can leave a bike locked outside while you work or shop and theres a good chance it will be there when you come back, not a hope with one of these.


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    #46
    Higgins5473
    Registered Users Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Higgins5473


    Thargor wrote: »
    Why do people buy these compared to a decent bike?

    -The bike doesnt care about rain or puddles, the scooter could be dead after one soaking.

    -You can pass a decent bike on to your grandkids if you maintain it, they never let you down and if something goes wrong its an easy fix, the battery in these is degrading faster than a mobile phones every charge cycle then its into a skip and you're left with nothing.

    -Even with moderate pedaling the bike is faster with way better range if you'e any way healthy, and it makes you fitter and healthier as you use it.

    -Irish roads are a mess, you need big wheels for stability, tiny scooter wheels can fling you under a car if you hit a drain or pothole.

    -The Guards arent going to seize your bike when they see you on it.

    -Bikes can carry moderate loads of shopping etc.

    -You can leave a bike locked outside while you work or shop and theres a good chance it will be there when you come back, not a hope with one of these.

    For us, a 2 and half mile distance between house and Luas. One phantom bus service which has left our childminder very unhappy with us trying to get back on time after work. We tried the bike on a fairly average bike to work scheme two years ago, before it got robbed it had its wheel jumped on left looking like a pringle. We looked into fold up bikes and they both expensive and not very compact. They piss a lot of Luas passengers off.

    There are good reasons to buy these. I am concerned about safety issues and I’d rather not get something that is currently not legal, which also pisses a lot of people off.


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    #47
    Mongfinder General
    Registered Users Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭Mongfinder General


    Del2005 wrote: »
    There's already a legal way for kids to get to schools by either walking, cycling or using a pedal assisted bicycle which are also much safer as they have bigger wheels. No need to buy an illegal vehicle for them, the exercise will do them good.

    Where did I say that kids would be using scooters? The return to school doesn't just affect school goers on the roads. It affects anybody using the roads at that time.


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    #48
    Turbohymac
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭Turbohymac


    Yes there illegal as there a mechanically propelled vehicle full stop..and in most instances are being used in footpaths so whether gardai enforce or not ..if theres an accident you're in the wrong anyway.. other safety issues probably include children zipping around in them etc.. dangerous item full stop


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    #49
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,915 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Mongfinder General wrote: »
    Where did I say that kids would be using scooters? The return to school doesn't just affect school goers on the roads. It affects anybody using the roads at that time.

    Can adults not cycle or walk?


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    #50
    Higgins5473
    Registered Users Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Higgins5473


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Can adults not cycle or walk?

    I thought his original point was quite clear, it wasn’t about the ethics of car, bike, e scooter, ebike and whatever else usage. It was highlighting that car usage is potentially going to cause an even worse gridlock than it was before come September as our already over capacity public transport system will be both limited in space and have people reluctant to use it.

    I remember when the Luas strikes were on there were an awful lot of people using it to walk and recall a few people saying it was quite pleasant and not all that bad.

    Maybe I’ll tweet Eamon Ryan suggesting it be covered up (with recycled material of course) and used as an urban green way for bikes and scooters only. I’m taking the piss but this would actually be far better in terms of cost saving, safer Covid wise and more beneficial for commuters because the Luas is practically useless at the moment and very empty.


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    #51
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,915 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Higgins5473 wrote: »
    I thought his original point was quite clear, it wasn’t about the ethics of car, bike, e scooter, ebike and whatever else usage. It was highlighting that car usage is potentially going to cause an even worse gridlock than it was before come September as our already over capacity public transport system will be both limited in space and have people reluctant to use it.

    I remember when the Luas strikes were on there were an awful lot of people using it to walk and recall a few people saying it was quite pleasant and not all that bad.

    Maybe I’ll tweet Eamon Ryan suggesting it be covered up (with recycled material of course) and used as an urban green way for bikes and scooters only. I’m taking the piss but this would actually be far better in terms of cost saving, safer Covid wise and more beneficial for commuters because the Luas is practically useless at the moment and very empty.

    The solution to public transport restrictions isn't to use illegal vehicles though. If they change the legislation then these will be a viable option for some people,i still think that a bicycle is a better option, but currently they are not.

    The other issue with these is that people are taking them into their workplace. How many workplaces have suitable fire extinguishers?


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    #52
    eclipsechaser
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭eclipsechaser


    Thargor wrote: »
    Why do people buy these compared to a decent bike?

    I'm a cyclist but the small storage space is a big plus. Not all houses/ apartments have a place for bikes. That's true for workplaces as well. You can ride this to a Luas and hop on with it. You don't have to have a shower after riding it to work (if work has a shower).

    I can think of lots of reasons.


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    #53
    ongarite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,213 ✭✭✭ongarite


    eclipsechaser wrote: »
    I'm a cyclist but the small storage space is a big plus. Not all houses/ apartments have a place for bikes. That's true for workplaces as well. You can ride this to a Luas and hop on with it. You don't have to have a shower after riding it to work (if work has a shower).

    I can think of lots of reasons.

    +1
    In this COVID-19 times, most workplace shower facilities are closed and could be for unknown period.
    Getting to work without the need to shower, clean-up is a big plus.


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    #54
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,637 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    mrcheez wrote: »
    Back to the original topic.

    What's the warranty like on these?

    That might make it attractive over the other options as Lidl are good at honouring warranties.

    10km range is perfect for what I would use it for.
    Higgins5473 wrote: »
    A brief search on adverts told me there is far better value to be had from reputable brands with online reviews. I wouldn’t be in a hurry to buy this.

    Not really the answer I was looking for.

    Anyone know what warranty comes with these?



    Also for the record, I cycle and drive, but sometimes I don't want to have to get my bike out for quick nip up to the shops to grab a bottle of milk, or when popping over to my local pool. The walk takes about 20 mins or about 40 mins for the pool.

    This would be ideal for a quick pop out without having to change my clothes or protect my legs from chain grease etc.

    As for the car, it's a diesel and I prefer to only use it when taking long commutes as constant short spins are bad for a diesel engine.


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    #55
    FrDougal
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭FrDougal


    If a vehicle goes by itself, it's a mechanically propelled vehicle and requires tax, insurance and licence under Irish Law in order to be driven in public. (ie an e-scooter)

    If a vehicle only provides electrical backup to human power, it's legal (ie an e-bike)

    Theoretically, driving an e-scooter in public you could be prosecuted to the extent of driving a car without tax & insurance (and a license if applicable)

    In practice, the Guards will most likely just seize the vehicle unless they turn a blind eye.

    https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/VS_Information_Notes/Two_Three_Wheeled_Vehicles/FAQs%20on%20E%20Bikes%20and%20Pedelecs%20and%20battery%20Scooters.pdf


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    #56
    thenightman
    Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭thenightman


    Here's a roads policing Garda seizing two in Terenure last year:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G12b3kgDwRA

    You'll also note the guard makes a lawful demand for rider to produce his insurance for scooter within 7 days. Seeing as no insurance is available for these scooters, the rider will ultimately be summonsed for no insurance and be fined/penalty pointed for same. Also liable for impound fee + daily storage. I think the scooters are useful, but I wouldn't be running the risk of using them on a public road until they are legislated for. The chance of being fined/pointed at the whim of a Garda having a bad day is too great.


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    #57
    Higgins5473
    Registered Users Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Higgins5473


    Del2005 wrote: »
    The solution to public transport restrictions isn't to use illegal vehicles though. If they change the legislation then these will be a viable option for some people,i still think that a bicycle is a better option, but currently they are not.

    The other issue with these is that people are taking them into their workplace. How many workplaces have suitable fire extinguishers?

    How would an e scooter differ from an electric car or electric bike in terms of a fire hazard? You could even argue phones, tablets and laptops also. All that said a standard CO2 or powdered graphite extinguisher found in every office floor for extinguishing electrical fires would put one of these out in seconds.

    You are fairly intent on emphasising the ‘illegal’ side of all this, it’s a bit much. It was clear from earlier posts that legalising e scooters was in the pipeline and only a matter of time except that an election came and then months of waiting to form a government. While I would be reluctant to use or buy one without clear legal statute in place regarding their usage, it’s hardly crime of the century.


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    #58
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,827 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    I'll stick to the bike as long as my legs still work, thanks. I wouldn't be seen dead on this glorified child's toy.


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    #59
    Higgins5473
    Registered Users Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Higgins5473


    thenightman wrote: »
    Here's a roads policing Garda seizing two in Terenure last year:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G12b3kgDwRA

    You'll also note the guard makes a lawful demand for rider to produce his insurance for scooter within 7 days. Seeing as no insurance is available for these scooters, the rider will ultimately be summonsed for no insurance and be fined/penalty pointed for same. Also liable for impound fee + daily storage. I think the scooters are useful, but I wouldn't be running the risk of using them on a public road until they are legislated for. The chance of being fined/pointed at the whim of a Garda having a bad day is too great.

    Well that’s that decision made then for us until it is legalised. Thanks for posting this video.


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    #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I’m trying to find a reason for justifying buying one of these I think they are a great idea. Bikes require effort these don’t which is a major advantage, easy to fold up, easy to store, stick in the boot of the car etc etc. My commute is far too long to use but having own to shoot into town at lunch and back etc and that sort of thing is very appealing.

    I wouldn’t go for this would think I’d stick to the well known models around the 400 to 500 euro mark.


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    #61
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    Thargor wrote: »
    Why do people buy these compared to a decent bike?

    Because they are smaller. You can throw one into the trunk and use as a last-mile commuting device. Not possible with a bicycle.


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