Ulster Bank League 2018-2019 Talk/Gossip/Rumours

The Lost Sheep · 26-07-2018 5:01pm

We may need to edit thread title.
Ulster Bank gone as sponsor and may not be a replacement for this season.
Fixtures to be published tomorrow
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/irfu-seeking-new-all-ireland-league-sponsor-1.3577363

The Lost Sheep · 26-07-2018 9:35pm

Irish Universities have info on their competitions on IRFU website
Dudley Cup, the senior intervarsities competition, is being played on a challenge format this season.
UCD play UCC in Belfield on November 3rd. I think its safe to assume this will also be an AIL game.
http://www.irishrugby.ie/club/irish_universities_rugby.php

D14Rugby · 26-07-2018 10:20pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Irish Universities have info on their competitions on IRFU website
Dudley Cup, the senior intervarsities competition, is being played on a challenge format this season.
UCD play UCC in Belfield on November 3rd. I think its safe to assume this will also be an AIL game.
http://www.irishrugby.ie/club/irish_universities_rugby.php

Dont think so, university competition and AIL competition squads can be different

The Lost Sheep · 26-07-2018 10:23pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

Dont think so, university competition and AIL competition squads can be different

That is dudley cup which is senior universities cup. I know full well the competitions are different. I played in maughan scally competition when in university but never played for the university in a club game.
But the dates line up so very likely is AIL game.

The Lost Sheep · 26-07-2018 10:23pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

Dont think so, university competition and AIL competition squads can be different

That is dudley cup which is senior universities cup. I know full well the competitions are different. I played in maughan scally competition when in university but never played for the university in a club game.
But the dates line up so very likely is AIL game.

Chico Flores · 27-07-2018 5:07pm

Fixtures out today. Seem to be on a club by club basis, not out on Irish Rugby yet.

ArmchairQB · 28-07-2018 8:21am

D14Rugby wrote: »

Dont think so, university competition and AIL competition squads can be different

It will be an AiL weekend

stellenbosch · 28-07-2018 9:45am

ArmchairQB wrote: »

It will be an AiL weekend

UCC v Shannon Sat 3rd Nov

Clontarf v UCD Fri 2nd Nov

Think it will be both UCC / UCD 2nds or 20s !

stellenbosch · 28-07-2018 9:58am

stellenbosch wrote: »

UCC v Shannon Sat 3rd Nov

Clontarf v UCD Fri 2nd Nov

Think it will be both UCC / UCD 2nds or 20s !

Strange the Dudley would not be opening weekend on 8th Oct when UCC actually play UCD!

ArmchairQB · 28-07-2018 3:47pm

stellenbosch wrote: »

Strange the Dudley would not be opening weekend on 8th Oct when UCC actually play UCD!

I am sure they will re-arrange to that date??

Harryclaim · 28-07-2018 4:47pm

Interesting to see Naas RFC man Fionn Higgins is playing for Leicester this week in the premiership 7s, anyone have any more info on his involvement?

irishbucsfan · 28-07-2018 5:18pm

Not sure exactly how that happened but could well be the Murphy connection.

A lot of the time these 7s squads have been filled out quite late in the day, in my experience.

D14Rugby · 28-07-2018 6:49pm

ArmchairQB wrote: »

I am sure they will re-arrange to that date??

They'd hardly have set the date the day before fixtures were announced only to change it.

Likely they won't as UCC or UCD might want to play non uni players in the AIL

Limerick 37.5 · 31-07-2018 2:26pm

http://www.irishrugby.ie/club/allirelandleagueandcup/fixtures.php

The Lost Sheep · 03-08-2018 5:26pm

Only just looked over the fixtures
Happy enough with ours. Any thoughts on 1A/other divisions?

The Lost Sheep · 06-08-2018 10:52pm

David McCann, new Ulster academy member, joining Banbridge
Any more info on transfers?

The Lost Sheep · 07-08-2018 5:17pm

Buccaneers have got new coaches
Peter O’Donnell comes in as Head Coach and he will be assisted by Aidan Wynne with Michael Harding in charge of the club’s Seconds team
O'Donnell joins from Ashbourne where he has been since 2015 and theyve been all ireland junior cup winners twice, won junior league as well. O Donnell has also been an assisstant AIL coach with Naas and Belvedere
Aidan Wynne was with Tullamore last season but played a lot with Buccs before that
Michael Harding joins from Portumna but has AIL playing experience with Nenagh

Goodluck2me · 08-08-2018 11:55pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

Dont think so, university competition and AIL competition squads can be different

They can but UCD never use players outside the university in senior or U20 intervarsities, the MS may have been different but shouldn't have been.

D14Rugby wrote: »

They'd hardly have set the date the day before fixtures were announced only to change it.

Likely they won't as UCC or UCD might want to play non uni players in the AIL

It's defintely acting as a double-header, the winner will play Queens. It's a Ranfurly shield format this year.

stellenbosch · 10-08-2018 11:42am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Buccaneers have got new coaches
Peter O’Donnell comes in as Head Coach and he will be assisted by Aidan Wynne with Michael Harding in charge of the club’s Seconds team
O'Donnell joins from Ashbourne where he has been since 2015 and theyve been all ireland junior cup winners twice, won junior league as well. O Donnell has also been an assisstant AIL coach with Naas and Belvedere
Aidan Wynne was with Tullamore last season but played a lot with Buccs before that
Michael Harding joins from Portumna but has AIL playing experience with Nenagh

So what happenned Shortt??? He had been named as head coach a month ago

The Lost Sheep · 10-08-2018 11:54am

stellenbosch wrote: »

So what happenned Shortt??? He had been named as head coach a month ago

It was more than a month ago but no idea why the change

shaungil · 10-08-2018 2:23pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

It was more than a month ago but no idea why the change

Seems like he was Shortt changed.....

awec · 14-08-2018 9:17am

Is there any truth to the talk that the IRFU are / were keen to change the format of the UBL but are being resisted by the Leinster clubs who don't want the status quo to change?

Apparently the IRFU were looking to create a single, semi-professional All Ireland League, with ~4 teams from each province. No promotion or relegation (due to the semi pro nature). Below this, leagues would revert back to provincial systems.

ArmchairQB · 14-08-2018 9:27am

awec wrote: »

Is there any truth to the talk that the IRFU are / were keen to change the format of the UBL but are being resisted by the Leinster clubs who don't want the status quo to change?

Apparently the IRFU were looking to create a single, semi-professional All Ireland League, with ~4 teams from each province. No promotion or relegation (due to the semi pro nature). Below this, leagues would revert back to provincial systems.

Some truth it was only 2 teams from each province but may be 4 in certain provinces. BUT provinces have no resources to fund this and IRFU have notr explained it plus the notion especially in Leinster that pro, academy and development players will be released to their clubs in greater numbers than ever before is nonsense and especially in a world cup year with November Internationals, 6 Nations Pro 14 & Champion Cup and new anglo welsh academy league commitments I would safely say there will be less players than ever released this season.

Problem as I have been told is that Union have not discussed properly how this would work with either Leinster or the clubs and they seem intent on pushing thru change to suit the agenda of the Pro game but not the club game. The provinces have been given no detail or extra budget to implement any new proposed system so if they are the administrators and have no idea on the workings you can imagine how the clubs feel. Likely Union will force something thru late in September and say take it or leave it as in the new IRFU clubs now have to be invited to play in the league no automatic right unless you geneflect and kiss the ring!

awec · 14-08-2018 9:35am

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Some truth it was only 2 teams from each province but may be 4 in certain provinces. BUT provinces have no resources to fund this and IRFU have notr explained it plus the notion especially in Leinster that pro, academy and development players will be released to their clubs in greater numbers than ever before is nonsense and especially in a world cup year with November Internationals, 6 Nations Pro 14 & Champion Cup and new anglo welsh academy league commitments I would safely say there will be less players than ever released this season.

Problem as I have been told is that Union have not discussed properly how this would work with either Leinster or the clubs and they seem intent on pushing thru change to suit the agenda of the Pro game but not the club game. The provinces have been given no detail or extra budget to implement any new proposed system so if they are the administrators and have no idea on the workings you can imagine how the clubs feel. Likely Union will force something thru late in September and say take it or leave it as in the new IRFU clubs now have to be invited to play in the league no automatic right unless you geneflect and kiss the ring!

But with the B+I cup going away does this not provide a good opportunity for A players to get games? The reasoning is surely to benefit the pro game.

The current structure is top heavy with Leinster and Munster clubs (unsurprising). I expect even the Ulster clubs to be against this change, because no club is going to want to be outside the top league.

And I am not sure ring fencing the league for 2 years is long enough. Promo and relegation will be a bit weird, chances are the club relegated would just lose all their good players to the club promoted and you'd end up just having pretty much the same players just wearing a different kit.

Tarf1234 · 14-08-2018 9:45am

awec wrote: »

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Some truth it was only 2 teams from each province but may be 4 in certain provinces. BUT provinces have no resources to fund this and IRFU have notr explained it plus the notion especially in Leinster that pro, academy and development players will be released to their clubs in greater numbers than ever before is nonsense and especially in a world cup year with November Internationals, 6 Nations Pro 14 & Champion Cup and new anglo welsh academy league commitments I would safely say there will be less players than ever released this season.

Problem as I have been told is that Union have not discussed properly how this would work with either Leinster or the clubs and they seem intent on pushing thru change to suit the agenda of the Pro game but not the club game. The provinces have been given no detail or extra budget to implement any new proposed system so if they are the administrators and have no idea on the workings you can imagine how the clubs feel. Likely Union will force something thru late in September and say take it or leave it as in the new IRFU clubs now have to be invited to play in the league no automatic right unless you geneflect and kiss the ring!

But with the B+I cup going away does this not provide a good opportunity for A players to get games? The reasoning is surely to benefit the pro game.

The current structure is top heavy with Leinster and Munster clubs (unsurprising). I expect even the Ulster clubs to be against this change, because no club is going to want to be outside the top league.

And I am not sure ring fencing the league for 2 years is long enough. Promo and relegation will be a bit weird, chances are the club relegated would just lose all their good players to the club promoted and you'd end up just having pretty much the same players just wearing a different kit.

It's already been replaced by a competition against the Welsh for this year and the Scots expected to join next year. The cynic in me would say the IRFU knew this when they were pushing the notion of players being released more and were just using it to help with the negotiations for the new structure and to give the impression to the wider community that they were listening to clubs..

ArmchairQB · 14-08-2018 9:45am

awec wrote: »

But with the B+I cup going away does this not provide a good opportunity for A players to get games? The reasoning is surely to benefit the pro game.

The current structure is top heavy with Leinster and Munster clubs (unsurprising). I expect even the Ulster clubs to be against this change, because no club is going to want to be outside the top league.

And I am not sure ring fencing the league for 2 years is long enough. Promo and relegation will be a bit weird, chances are the club relegated would just lose all their good players to the club promoted and you'd end up just having pretty much the same players just wearing a different kit.

The BI is being replaced with the Anglo Welsh League which will have 6/7 games from September thru October which will bring us right into November internationals with Leinster loosing alot of players so A team comes into play and beef up squad while internationals are away the Christmas then 6 nations where it will be repeated. An IRFU survey showed that Leinster release less than other provinces to their clubs and this will continue as Leinster concentrate on whats best for thenm not the clubs they are a pro set up with pro demands and wont risk players when short. IRFU have already told provinces that Internationals will be rested more this season than last as they want them in peak shape for World CUp, this will have a knock on effect down to academy players

irishbucsfan · 14-08-2018 9:52am

awec wrote: »

But with the B+I cup going away does this not provide a good opportunity for A players to get games? The reasoning is surely to benefit the pro game.

The current structure is top heavy with Leinster and Munster clubs (unsurprising). I expect even the Ulster clubs to be against this change, because no club is going to want to be outside the top league.

And I am not sure ring fencing the league for 2 years is long enough. Promo and relegation will be a bit weird, chances are the club relegated would just lose all their good players to the club promoted and you'd end up just having pretty much the same players just wearing a different kit.

People are starting to be frozen out which is the first step towards a cultural shift that places high-performance a first class citizen at clubs alongside social stuff. It'll lead to quite a bit of bitching and I'm sure no small amount of rumours, which vary wildly depending on who you listen to.

The AIL needs massive reform if it is to have any chance of being the replacement for the B+I Cup. Some clubs are miles off where they need to be culturally, although I really don't think that applies so much to senior Leinster clubs (I've no personal connection to any of them, I only have anecdotal evidence from rugby people at senior clubs in other provinces). Many clubs will lose out, moreso in Leinster and Munster. I can't imagine they'll go down without a fight. I have no idea if they'll be able to pull that off. It will be interesting to watch in a sort of Game of Thrones way, I've no dog in the fight personally so long as they get something that works for all four provinces.

irishbucsfan · 14-08-2018 9:56am

ArmchairQB wrote: »

The BI is being replaced with the Anglo Welsh League which will have 6/7 games from September thru October which will bring us right into November internationals with Leinster loosing alot of players so A team comes into play and beef up squad while internationals are away the Christmas then 6 nations where it will be repeated. An IRFU survey showed that Leinster release less than other provinces to their clubs and this will continue as Leinster concentrate on whats best for thenm not the clubs they are a pro set up with pro demands and wont risk players when short. IRFU have already told provinces that Internationals will be rested more this season than last as they want them in peak shape for World CUp, this will have a knock on effect down to academy players

A 6 week tournament is not even remotely close to being a replacement for the B+I league.

Leinster are not the only province who don't release players and they're not the only province who struggle to communicate with their clubs about release policies. A constant complaint from coaches across the board. The clubs need to be put on a more equal footing to fix the problem though, it will always be problematic so long as the provinces feel the clubs can't develop the players adequately enough to justify more generous release policies.

ArmchairQB · 14-08-2018 10:06am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

A 6 week tournament is not even remotely close to being a replacement for the B+I league.

Leinster are not the only province who don't release players and they're not the only province who struggle to communicate with their clubs about release policies. A constant complaint from coaches across the board. The clubs need to be put on a more equal footing to fix the problem though, it will always be problematic so long as the provinces feel the clubs can't develop the players adequately enough to justify more generous release policies.

Never said they were the only province that didn't release players just said they were the worst which is on record and distrubuted to senior clubs last week by IRFU also Leinster in fairness are pretty good at communicating when players are being released clubs might not always like the outcome of thos communications but communication is not the problem. How many B&I games were there?

irishbucsfan · 14-08-2018 10:12am

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Never said they were the only province that didn't release players just said they were the worst which is on record and distrubuted to senior clubs last week by IRFU also Leinster in fairness are pretty good at communicating when players are being released clubs might not always like the outcome of thos communications but communication is not the problem. How many B&I games were there?

Communication is a problem for clubs in other provinces for sure. Some of it is unavoidable due to the fact the provinces aren't always sure who they'll need, but some of it can be improved.

It's not the number of games that matters. It's having a consistent benchmark to test developing players against throughout the season. Pretty difficult to develop academy rugby players without any rugby for them to play.

The Lost Sheep · 14-08-2018 11:03am

awec wrote: »

Is there any truth to the talk that the IRFU are / were keen to change the format of the UBL but are being resisted by the Leinster clubs who don't want the status quo to change?

Apparently the IRFU were looking to create a single, semi-professional All Ireland League, with ~4 teams from each province. No promotion or relegation (due to the semi pro nature). Below this, leagues would revert back to provincial systems.

Yes they wouldnt to get more clubs from Connacht/Ulster up and provide more games for contracted players. The IRFU were never going to get a semi pro league with 4 teams from each province. It could only ever be max of 2 from Connacht and maybe even same from Ulster with 4 from big 2. Most senior clubs dont want to revert to a provincial system.

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Some truth it was only 2 teams from each province but may be 4 in certain provinces. BUT provinces have no resources to fund this and IRFU have notr explained it plus the notion especially in Leinster that pro, academy and development players will be released to their clubs in greater numbers than ever before is nonsense and especially in a world cup year with November Internationals, 6 Nations Pro 14 & Champion Cup and new anglo welsh academy league commitments I would safely say there will be less players than ever released this season.

Problem as I have been told is that Union have not discussed properly how this would work with either Leinster or the clubs and they seem intent on pushing thru change to suit the agenda of the Pro game but not the club game. The provinces have been given no detail or extra budget to implement any new proposed system so if they are the administrators and have no idea on the workings you can imagine how the clubs feel. Likely Union will force something thru late in September and say take it or leave it as in the new IRFU clubs now have to be invited to play in the league no automatic right unless you geneflect and kiss the ring!

Provinces and IRFU havent done anything right in this but how much have the clubs done to really address this. The Leinster clubs at least had stories in media protesting this but what else has been done?

awec wrote: »

But with the B+I cup going away does this not provide a good opportunity for A players to get games? The reasoning is surely to benefit the pro game.

The current structure is top heavy with Leinster and Munster clubs (unsurprising). I expect even the Ulster clubs to be against this change, because no club is going to want to be outside the top league.

And I am not sure ring fencing the league for 2 years is long enough. Promo and relegation will be a bit weird, chances are the club relegated would just lose all their good players to the club promoted and you'd end up just having pretty much the same players just wearing a different kit.

B&I Cup going away will see other A games. Top divisions have always been top heavy with Munster and Leinster clubs. Connacht always has had small number of senior clubs and generally been low end division 1/division 2 standard.

Tarf1234 · 14-08-2018 11:10am

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Never said they were the only province that didn't release players just said they were the worst which is on record and distrubuted to senior clubs last week by IRFU also Leinster in fairness are pretty good at communicating when players are being released clubs might not always like the outcome of thos communications but communication is not the problem. How many B&I games were there?

Format will also change next year when the Scots join. No guarantee but I would be hugely surprised if it doesn't end up with players being at least as unavailable as before if not more.

stephen_n · 14-08-2018 11:20am

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Likely Union will force something thru late in September and say take it or leave it as in the new IRFU clubs now have to be invited to play in the league no automatic right unless you geneflect and kiss the ring!

I keep hearing this, but unless something massively changed in how the IRFU is run, then it can’t really happen. The management structure of the IRFU puts the clubs at the top not the bottom. The union is answerable to the clubs, not the other way around.

ArmchairQB · 14-08-2018 12:45pm

stephen_n wrote: »

I keep hearing this, but unless something massively changed in how the IRFU is run, then it can’t really happen. The management structure of the IRFU puts the clubs at the top not the bottom. The union is answerable to the clubs, not the other way around.

It seems as if the senior clubs are taking action against it but IRFU are fighting back. Munster, Leinster & Ulster clubs b in a huge majority are against it and fighting back. BUT union will put a gun to their head and say take it or leave it. Will clubs have the back bone to stick together and refuse if necessary?? That is where it is all heading. Squeaky bum time!

stephen_n · 14-08-2018 1:30pm

ArmchairQB wrote: »

It seems as if the senior clubs are taking action against it but IRFU are fighting back. Munster, Leinster & Ulster clubs b in a huge majority are against it and fighting back. BUT union will put a gun to their head and say take it or leave it. Will clubs have the back bone to stick together and refuse if necessary?? That is where it is all heading. Squeaky bum time!

Not sure that is a good departure. By and large the Union does a great job, but the clubs need to remain at the core of it, not having the tail wag the dog.

irishbucsfan · 14-08-2018 1:35pm

stephen_n wrote: »

Not sure that is a good departure. By and large the Union does a great job, but the clubs need to remain at the core of it, not having the tail wag the dog.

The clubs are not at the core of it in the way you are suggesting. Not for a long time. Most of the legwork is done by professional rugby people directly employed by the IRFU under the guidance of Browne/Nucifora etc, rather than the provincial branches or committees. For example the 2013-2017 strategic plan would have been the "tail wagging the dog" from the very beginning.

stephen_n · 14-08-2018 1:42pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The clubs are not at the core of it in the way you are suggesting. Not for a long time. Most of the legwork is done by professional rugby people directly employed by the IRFU under the guidance of Browne/Nucifora etc, rather than the provincial branches or committees. For example the 2013-2017 strategic plan would have been the "tail wagging the dog" from the very beginning.

Yes the work has always been done by the professionals employed by the union. That was true even before the game itself went professional. But they are employees of the organization, which has always been clubs > branches > union. I know the workings of that are complex, but even through professionalism, there hasn’t really been a case where the employees have told the organization what to do before now. Least wise not that I’m aware of.

irishbucsfan · 14-08-2018 2:02pm

stephen_n wrote: »

Yes the work has always been done by the professionals employed by the union. That was true even before the game itself went professional. But they are employees of the organization, which has always been clubs > branches > union. I know the workings of that are complex, but even through professionalism, there hasn’t really been a case where the employees have told the organization what to do before now. Least wise not that I’m aware of.

The leadership comes from the professional side. Which is exactly as it should be, because they know what they are doing and professional sport has long since moved beyond being something for retirees to attend to part-time.

Ultimately I'm sure Browne, Nucifora etc. need approval from the Irish Rugby committee people to make such sweeping changes, but I'd doubt they'd get much resistance from the top. I'd say if there is any substance to the idea that this will be forced on clubs at short notice, it will come via the guise of the release of the next Strategic Plan (which is due any day now, given the last one was 2013-2017...

), and that will have surely been approved by the professional game board and all other serious committees, while being prepared and compiled by the IRFU.

ArmchairQB · 15-08-2018 11:53am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The leadership comes from the professional side. Which is exactly as it should be, because they know what they are doing.

You would think so wouldn't you But.........

irishbucsfan · 15-08-2018 12:05pm

ArmchairQB wrote: »

You would think so wouldn't you But.........

Well I certainly have many issues with them, but in comparison to some of the people in the amateur game they're in a different league. Although those people are certainly very often strong examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

The Lost Sheep · 17-08-2018 2:06pm

Some competitive games tomorrow.
Connacht league starts. Ballina Sligo. Galwegians Corinthians.

The Lost Sheep · 17-08-2018 2:52pm

Transfers in/out for Ulster clubs on article posted on the Instonians website.
http://www.instonians.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3455:rugby-clubs-preview-of-season-201819-by-george-millar&catid=1:1st-xv&Itemid=14

The Lost Sheep · 18-08-2018 8:24pm

Results of todays Connacht league games
Galwegians 35 Corinthians 18, Ballina 35 Sligo 24

realhorrorshow · 18-08-2018 9:50pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Results of todays Connacht league games
Galwegians 35 Corinthians 18, Ballina 35 Sligo 24

Was at Crowley Park, decent game. JP Cooney is coaching Corinthians.

The Lost Sheep · 18-08-2018 9:51pm

realhorrorshow wrote: »

Was at Crowley Park, decent game. JP Cooney is coaching Corinthians.

Yeah heard that a few weeks ago. Hopefully Corinthians can bounce back and get back up to 2A sooner rather than later

realhorrorshow · 18-08-2018 11:58pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Yeah heard that a few weeks ago. Hopefully Corinthians can bounce back and get back up to 2A sooner rather than later

Absolutely. Not sure what their recruitment has been like, seems like they have a fairly young team. Assume they’ve lost their academy players.

The Lost Sheep · 19-08-2018 12:00am

realhorrorshow wrote: »

Absolutely. Not sure what their recruitment has been like, seems like they have a fairly young team. Assume they’ve lost their academy players.

No reason to lose their academy players. only went from 2A to 2B. There's no restriction on academy players in division 2.

TheBully · 19-08-2018 10:59pm

How do u guys feel Ballina will do this year

The Lost Sheep · 19-08-2018 11:03pm

TheBully wrote: »

How do u guys feel Ballina will do this year

Will do quite well. Have dominated junior rugby in Connacht the past few years and will be comfortable in 2C in mid table.

Chico Flores · 20-08-2018 12:56am

I know there isn't a definitive list, bar the Ulster one above, but is there a way of seeing who has transferred from which clubs etc?

Or just what we can work out from those involved in respective clubs here

Ulster Bank League 2018-2019 Talk/Gossip/Rumours

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