Bdgp

croot · 04-04-2017 12:31pm

dh1985 wrote: »

Do you mind me asking are they AI animals. I ask as I too have had a couple sire changes. To AI bred animals. The funny thing is I don't have a lot of AI bred cows and the of the few that I do have a couple have had sire changes.

I use all AI I've had 5 change so far. 2 the first year and 2 the second year and one last year. 4 were home bred and one was bought in. Two were cows that were over 7 years old and the AI docket had the wrong bull on it. Another one was my own fault. I mixed up bulls on a bull and a heifer and one was an immaculate conception because she is still down as a missing sire. The final one was a heifer I bought that the breeder put down the wrong sire.

tanko · 04-04-2017 12:41pm

If a farmer buys a heifer in the mart because she's a five star animal at that stage, gets her genotyped and it turns out that her sire was wrong making her a two or three star heifer, what happens then?
I've heard of some dairy farmers being economical with the truth about which bulls some limousin heifers are bred off in order to boost their Eurostars.

patsy_mccabe · 04-04-2017 1:03pm

Just got a letter in the door from ICBF. The PB Limousin cow I bought in the mart had the wrong Sire on her Cert.:mad: They changed it from CWI to RHF. This brings her from a 5 Star to a 1 Star on replacement. Feck it anyway.
Her calf is still 5 star though.
To be fair the guy selling her in the mart didn't breed her and didn't announce her star ratings.

croot · 04-04-2017 2:11pm

tanko wrote: »

If a farmer buys a heifer in the mart because she's a five star animal at that stage, gets her genotyped and it turns out that her sire was wrong making her a two or three star heifer, what happens then?
I've heard of some dairy farmers being economical with the truth about which bulls some limousin heifers are bred off in order to boost their Eurostars.

Well that's what happened to me with the one I bought but since she's half dairy she's still listed as 5*. I wrote to the original owner on the card but never heard back and that's it really.

I suppose until the BGDP scheme came in you wouldn't give a damn who the daddy was as long as the heifer was a good one. It may go that way again. I sold two weanling heifers recently one was high 5* and one was a 1*. The 1* looked better in every way and was a much classier animal and sold way better as a result. A lot of lads I've spoken to seem to be completely disillusioned with it.

Bellview · 04-04-2017 2:56pm

patsy_mccabe wrote:

Just got a letter in the door from ICBF. The PB Limousin cow I bought in the mart had the wrong Sire on her Cert. They changed it from CWI to RHF. This brings her from a 5 Star to a 1 Star on replacement. Feck it anyway. Her calf is still 5 star though. To be fair the guy selling her in the mart didn't breed her and didn't announce her star ratings.

Patsy unfortunately icbf could change sire again as I know a pedigree lad that had its cert changed 3 times and the final result was the sire that he originally gave to icbf. Not sure how they got it wrong so often but they did.. hence she could change sire again

Bellview · 04-04-2017 2:57pm

tanko wrote:

If a farmer buys a heifer in the mart because she's a five star animal at that stage, gets her genotyped and it turns out that her sire was wrong making her a two or three star heifer, what happens then? I've heard of some dairy farmers being economical with the truth about which bulls some limousin heifers are bred off in order to boost their Eurostars.

If she's off dairy cow she should remain 5 star even if off a one star bull as milk will be high.

charolais0153 · 04-04-2017 4:50pm

Bellview wrote: »

If she's off dairy cow she should remain 5 star even if off a one star bull as milk will be high.

Not necessarily, have a whitehead heifer off frieisan 2 star

tanko · 04-04-2017 5:25pm

A dairy farmer i know has 100% Holstein cows and a limo stock bull off Rocky, the resulting heifers are mostly two and three star on the maternal index.

tanko · 13-04-2017 11:02pm

Does anyone know for sure whether or not cows born before 2013 will qualify as part of the 20% next year?
I thought they will but was talking to a consultant today who reckons they definitely won't.

croot · 13-04-2017 11:27pm

tanko wrote: »

Does anyone know for sure whether or not cows born before 2013 will qualify as part of the 20% next year?
I thought they will but was talking to a consultant today who reckons they definitely won't.

Originally they didn't but I'm 99% sure they changed it. On the last suckler report they list the amount of eligible females in your herd and all cows even the ones born pre 2013 are included.

Future Farmer · 14-04-2017 9:49am

+1 with Croot

Farrell · 14-04-2017 3:38pm

Future Farmer wrote: »

+1 with Croot

Was at a meeting recently where topic was raised.
It was to change for no age discrimination, but the terms have not been updated so
Over 16 months & born since 2013

tanko · 14-04-2017 4:13pm

croot wrote: »

Originally they didn't but I'm 99% sure they changed it. On the last suckler report they list the amount of eligible females in your herd and all cows even the ones born pre 2013 are included.

Until yesterday i would have agreed with you but now i think you're wrong. I had a look at the terms and conditions for the BDGP scheme on the Department website and it still says that only cows and heifers born in 2013 or later and at least 16 months old in Oct 2018 are eligible to count towards the 20%.

I was sure they changed this so that cows of any age counted but it doesn't look like it now.

croot · 15-04-2017 10:29pm

tanko wrote: »

Until yesterday i would have agreed with you but now i think you're wrong. I had a look at the terms and conditions for the BDGP scheme on the Department website and it still says that only cows and heifers born in 2013 or later and at least 16 months old in Oct 2018 are eligible to count towards the 20%.

I was sure they changed this so that cows of any age counted but it doesn't look like it now.

I think that requirement is for replacements you buy but not for cows already in your herd.

tanko · 19-04-2017 10:26pm

Farrell wrote: »

Was at a meeting recently where topic was raised.
It was to change for no age discrimination, but the terms have not been updated so
Over 16 months & born since 2013

Looks like this is definitely the case whether animals are bought in or homebred.

Farrell · 19-04-2017 11:02pm

tanko wrote: »

Looks like this is definitely the case whether animals are bought in or homebred.

Know some older farmers in the scheme with all 4 & 5 star cows which appear to be ineligible due to age & all calves are sold as weanlings.
How can you tell them that they have to sell their cows & buy younger cows, even though all papers they get do not highlight an issue with the existing stock

tanko · 24-04-2017 12:56pm

croot wrote: »

I think that requirement is for replacements you buy but not for cows already in your herd.

Looks as though you're right.
Apparently cows born before 2013 qualify for the scheme provided they were in your herd before you applied for the scheme, which was early 2015.

Farrell · 24-04-2017 1:00pm

You're quick off the mark
Must have good sources

Sheep breeder · 24-04-2017 4:35pm

You have to have 4 or 5 star either purchased or bred at home, sure the printout that icbf send out tells the percent of stars in the herd to meet the requirements.
Madness to think if you have a 100 per cent 4 and 5 born prior to 2013 that they have to be sold and post 2013 have to be purchased.

Hurling Hereford · 25-04-2017 9:38pm

Farrell wrote: »

You're quick off the mark
Must have good sources

It's all about reading the T & Cs, then ask questions if you are unsure

tanko · 26-04-2017 1:48pm

Hurling Hereford wrote: »

It's all about reading the T & Cs, then ask questions if you are unsure

Not much point reading the T & C's when they keep changing them.
Last week the department said that cows born before 2013 didn't qualify, this week they're saying that they do as long as they were in your herd before the deadline for applications closed in early 2015.

whelan2 · 13-05-2017 10:57am

Tagged ours there this morning. Wasn't too bad. Think the thoughts of doing them is worse than anything

bogman_bass · 17-05-2017 1:51pm

I also go the letter saying I was missing data.

Turns out it was because I had a calf that a neighbours scrub bull sired when he came visiting.

Calved down the cow and got the tag number for the bull. Filled in all my data but got the letter saying it wasn't complete.
Turns out they wanted sire quality/docility/functionality but I have no way of filling in that data because he wasn't in my herd.

Get the feeling I would have been better off putting down "side unknown" rather than hunting down a tag number for the bull

tanko · 17-05-2017 1:55pm

Whatever about his quality and docility as least you can say that his functionality for going through ditches and putting cows in-calf is pretty high.

bogman_bass · 17-05-2017 2:01pm

tanko wrote: »

Whatever about his quality and docility as least you can say that his functionality for going through ditches and putting cows in-calf is pretty high.

Exactly.

They just emailed me back to say that I will probably get a reduction in my payment.
So much for doing the right thing!

whelan2 · 25-05-2017 10:57am

Got a letter today of a reduction in payment due to event recording not being completed- apparently 50% not completed in 2016. I would be 99% sure it was done, tried ringing them but no answer , anyone else get a letter

wiggy123 · 25-05-2017 11:55am

email them asap..icbf

kollegeknight · 25-05-2017 12:05pm

whelan2 wrote: »

Got a letter today of a reduction in payment due to event recording not being completed- apparently 50% not completed in 2016. I would be 99% sure it was done, tried ringing them but no answer , anyone else get a letter

I finally got paid for 2015 and they took €50 off me for incomplete surveys. Couldn't be arsed chasing it. Everything was done on time.

whelan2 · 25-05-2017 12:14pm

wiggy123 wrote: »

email them asap..icbf

The letter is from portlaoise

whelan2 · 25-05-2017 12:19pm

The only thing I can think of is that the later born calves didn't qualify as I couldn't fill in their details until 2017?

wiggy123 · 25-05-2017 12:30pm

I'd ask icbf also Whelan! email both--they do reply

wiggy123 · 25-05-2017 12:31pm

so possibly it was a different year-hense the penalty precentage

Lady Haywire · 25-05-2017 12:47pm

I got the same letter whelan, tried ringing 3 times and no answer. I am 100% sure all is complete unless it was about a calf that died and I couldn't do the 5 month stuff.

wiggy123 · 25-05-2017 3:27pm

think once the calf dies--all else(re data-ahead) does also
are they trying to find ways out of not paying fully to applicants of the scheme

KatyMac · 25-05-2017 3:55pm

I'm hopping mad - please read my response to them as I couldn't get through on the phone: What a waste of time, money and annoyance. I'm fed up with the lot of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr Preston,

I write in response to a letter received dated 23rd May 2017 regarding the BDGP scheme.

I note, with interest, that I have been penalised the sum of €16.63. I would like to most vigorously state that I most certainly do not accept this reduction.

I received a letter dated 8th May stating that I had not completed my survey data. I checked on Agfood and ICBF and there was nothing missing on any of the pages and graphs. I rang DAFM and inquired what was missing and after investigating the lady I was talking to said that it had something to do with a dead calf. This calf was born dead, it never had breath in its body. I registered it properly and had it properly disposed of. How on earth am I supposed to record data about the docility/vitality/functionality of this calf? After being dead for more than a year I don't think it is very functional or vital. The lady I was talking to said that the matter was now sorted and everything was okay. So why have I received this letter? I am being penalised because I did as I was supposed to, I did not dump the dead body of the calf but had it collected by a reputable service. Where is the point of a farmer doing the right thing if this is the result?

Please review this matter and let me have the full payment due for this scheme.

If necessary I will forward a copy of the docket received from Mullvaney dead animal collection service, but if the cattle in the whole country are supposed to be accounted for I cannot imagine this will be necessary.

Yours

capslock88 · 25-05-2017 5:09pm

Im fairly annoyed with this too...same story as all above...got a letter a few weeks ago saying I had incomplete surveys yet when I checked online everything was 100%...rang ICBF a few times and no reply...got the letter today saying I was fined 70e for 11% incomplete surveys..total bs as I had everything filled...and no info on what the surveys we're meant to have left out were about...instead we've to check to ts and cs of the scheme in order appeal...so no idea what I'm after doing wrong...some system...

whelan2 · 25-05-2017 6:03pm

We are being fined over €350. It would be nice if they would answer the phone. Icbf said all was fine a few weeks ago. Most people have enough going on without ringing them numerous times

KatyMac · 25-05-2017 6:31pm

I know I'm only missing a few euro but it's the unfairness of it that just tipped me over - trying hard to have everything done and then they nit-pick without giving us any help or useful advice! Bet I'll have an inspection now once my letter hits your-wan's desk.

patsy_mccabe · 25-05-2017 6:41pm

If you full in online, you can go ctrl alt print screen to capture the screen. Just go paste then in M&S Paint to create a pic for your records.

KatyMac · 25-05-2017 8:42pm

Thank you Patsy, I managed to get a printout and let the powers that be know I have it to send to them if they insist they are right and I'm not!!! As my mother used to say, "my dander is up". The family here are laughing at my polite 'feck off' letter.

Grueller · 25-05-2017 11:51pm

Just in the door here after being out shearing with a friend all evening. Arrived home to find a letter stating that my deduction is €517. My surveys are all done without fail. I do them on icbf online so am only assuming it's an IT issue with data being transferred over. Will be putting a flea in their ear tomorrow morning.

Sheep breeder · 26-05-2017 8:52am

The whole scheme is a joke, are we going to see icbf being fined for late return of genomic tests or for sendiing out paper returns months late to people who ar filling on line. Do they not understand email.
And when it comes to having the required 5 star female are icbf going to take the hit of changing the system so many times and changing stars up and down so much.

sonnybill · 26-05-2017 3:46pm

I sent off my last 4 samples there Monday .. Do icbf usually send out a text saying that all samples have been received and well

Parishlad · 26-05-2017 4:01pm

sonnybill wrote: »

I sent off my last 4 samples there Monday .. Do icbf usually send out a text saying that all samples have been received and well

Just checked phone and yes, you should get a text once all samples are received. Presume it's the Genomic samples that you are talking about?

whelan2 · 26-05-2017 4:03pm

If you check on icbf the graph will be updated when they have the samples

blue5000 · 27-05-2017 12:15pm

capslock88 wrote: »

Im fairly annoyed with this too...same story as all above...got a letter a few weeks ago saying I had incomplete surveys yet when I checked online everything was 100%...rang ICBF a few times and no reply...got the letter today saying I was fined 70e for 11% incomplete surveys..total bs as I had everything filled...and no info on what the surveys we're meant to have left out were about...instead we've to check to ts and cs of the scheme in order appeal...so no idea what I'm after doing wrong...some system...

I think I see the problem now, I just ticked all the boxes docility, calf quality etc whether the calf was dead or alive, got paid for them all. Someone in IT dept has failed to allow for calves born dead not being around at 6 months for the survey to be completed. You young wipper snappers have to learn when to hold and when to fold with these cnuts. It's a tough game with rules changing and goal posts constantly moving.

Limestone Cowboy · 27-05-2017 7:16pm

Got one of those letters too and a 50e fine. Think I had everything filled in aswell, I might have sold a calf under 5 months though if that makes a difference?

whelan2 · 28-05-2017 9:55am

It wouldnt kill them to specify the reason for the deduction in the letter, seeing as how they dont answer the phone

blue5000 · 28-05-2017 10:37am

whelan2 wrote: »

It wouldnt kill them to specify the reason for the deduction in the letter, seeing as how they dont answer the phone

Ya, like a neighbour who was trying to register calves using the book. They used the old book and the old prefix number for the tags. Came back with an error code, wrong tag number, they couldn't figure out what they had done wrong.

Hurling Hereford · 29-05-2017 8:17pm

As a recipient of one of those 'luvley' BDGP letters, just wondering did every farmer who is a participant in the scheme one of the bloody yokes. Then, it's even better crack trying to get through to Portlaois, Ffs

Bdgp

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