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DB fare increase

24567

Comments

  • #32
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Yes but you must still go to a shop or luas or train station machine to load the top up.

    Sort of pointless really.

    There is no excuse not to have credit as of auto top up and one can also add rambler tickets.

    It will soon change where one can travel on all modes of transport in 90 minutes for the one fare.

    Example.... Get bus and then dart and luas all within 90 minutes and it costs no extra each change.

    Can you not do it via the app? I was under the impression that you could (never had to top it up). If you have to do it that way then it's going in the bin.


  • #33
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Gael23 wrote: »
    Dublin Bus are increasing their fares from Dec 1st. A trip that was €2,85 is now €3.

    Is the price of public transport in Dublin now so high that it’s cheaper to drive?

    It wasn't just Dublin bus. I think every PSO provider has upped their fares.


  • #34
    Lucas Stocky Hoe
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Lucas Stocky Hoe


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    Can a Leap Card be topped up online?

    I think it needs to be presented to a machine to be topped up, because it happens via NFC.

    As mentioned I use my phone, you can top up the card in 30s.


  • #35
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Is the eventual plan to have just one flat fare?

    If that is the case, everyone will use the validator. The only interraction with driver will be cash payers, and those purchasing a ticket for a companion on the FTP.

    Yes but it has to be done gradually because operators such as Dublin Bus and Irish Rail are dependent on farebox revenue to fund their operations so they don't want to take on a big revenue risk at once so it's being done gradually.

    From today there is a flat fare for children for the first time and the top two adult fares have took a step closer to being merged.


  • #36
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,996 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    devnull wrote: »
    Yes but it has to be done gradually because operators such as Dublin Bus and Irish Rail are dependent on farebox revenue to fund their operations so they don't want to take on a big revenue risk at once so it's being done gradually.

    From today there is a flat fare for children for the first time and the top two adult fares have took a step closer to being merged.

    The problem remains though, that there might still be a "low fare" for short journeys. That will mean continuing interraction with the driver.

    Flat fare is the way to go, no matter how short or long your journey is within the relevant zone/stage system.

    In reality, the majority of those who need to take the bus for short journeys due to mobility issues etc. will have FTP anyway.


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  • #37
    antodeco
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,585 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    May be a silly question, but if you see the validator on the right, aren't you charged the maximum rate as oppose to just the journey cost? (I'll be travelling DB from the new year!)


  • #38
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    antodeco wrote: »
    May be a silly question, but if you see the validator on the right, aren't you charged the maximum rate as oppose to just the journey cost? (I'll be travelling DB from the new year!)

    Maximum Leap Rate


  • #39
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    antodeco wrote: »
    May be a silly question, but if you see the validator on the right, aren't you charged the maximum rate as oppose to just the journey cost? (I'll be travelling DB from the new year!)

    A set fare is on it depending on the service type, such as standard, airlink, xrpesso... (Not by route).

    As I'm getting 6 buses a day, it doesn't matter to me the individual cost of a small journey, I'm going to hit the daily and weekly cap anyway, so I just use that validator.


  • #40
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    I've 10 years no claims, no penalty points and car not too expensive. Insurance cost me 500 euro this year or basically a 10 er a week. That's before the cost of maintenance, tax ( about 200 euro a year or 2 euro a week) or depreciation or petrol

    Hang on. One can get you anywhere you need to go at any time, in your own space and comfort! Motor tax at e200 is nothing ...


  • #41
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    antodeco wrote: »
    May be a silly question, but if you see the validator on the right, aren't you charged the maximum rate as oppose to just the journey cost? (I'll be travelling DB from the new year!)
    Yes, but if you are going to hit the daily / weekly cap anyway, it won't matter to you.


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  • #42
    vrusinov
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭vrusinov


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    The problem remains though, that there might still be a "low fare" for short journeys. That will mean continuing interraction with the driver.

    If there is only two fares there can be simply two validators, no need to interact with a driver.


  • #43
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    vrusinov wrote: »
    If there is only two fares there can be simply two validators, no need to interact with a driver.

    That's an awful lot of equipment to maintain and update.


  • #44
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    You can use the android app to update your leap card. It requires NFC on your phone.

    It's also possible to set up auto-top-up, so that you never have to worry about it again.


  • #45
    caviardreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    CatInABox wrote: »
    You can use the android app to update your leap card. It requires NFC on your phone.

    It's also possible to set up auto-top-up, so that you never have to worry about it again.

    +1 Auto top up is unreal - just set it up and forget about it!


  • #46
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    devnull wrote: »
    Yes but it has to be done gradually because operators such as Dublin Bus and Irish Rail are dependent on farebox revenue to fund their operations so they don't want to take on a big revenue risk at once so it's being done gradually.

    From today there is a flat fare for children for the first time and the top two adult fares have took a step closer to being merged.

    That makes me wonder a with DB keeping all their revenue it would make me assume the revenue from the likes of DB Rambler etc. What I wonder is are the NTA conceding a loss by allowing them be accepted on GAI services. Don't get me wrong I think it's the right thing to be done but still makes me wonder all the same.

    What they should do in the short run is bring in a bus hopper fare similar to London with a view to extending it out to DART, Luas and Commuter Rail in the long run. I think it's bad that Travel 90 never migrated to Leap and was replaced by a Leap 90 discount which means you can get the second bus, train or tram for €1 obivously it's a good move but I think if stayed on the buses you should get the second free like with Travel 90 but have it an extra Euro for Luas, DART or Commuter Rail.


  • #47
    Kh1993
    Closed Accounts Posts: 443 ✭✭Kh1993


    Tbf to OP, in that even though by mentioning the cash fare it’s completely missed the point, the most popular fare (Leap 2.15) has been increased yet again. 2.05 to 2.25 in what? A year?

    It’s all well and good mentioning the 90 min discount and future 90 min fare, but at the end of the day it’s still another increase for the Leap Card user. Which doesn’t exactly incentivise public transport usage. Then again, it’s the NTA we are dealing with.


  • #48
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Kh1993 wrote: »
    Tbf to OP, in that even though by mentioning the cash fare it’s completely missed the point, the most popular fare (Leap 2.15) has been increased yet again. 2.05 to 2.25 in what? A year?

    It’s all well and good mentioning the 90 min discount and future 90 min fare, but at the end of the day it’s still another increase for the Leap Card user. Which doesn’t exactly incentivise public transport usage. Then again, it’s the NTA we are dealing with.

    It's not the most popular Leap fare I would say the €2.50 right hand validator fare is either just as popular if not more popular than the €2.25 fare. The majority of people travelling into the city centre from an area of beyond 13 stages as the €2.25 fare only really covers the inner suburbs unless people are underpaying.

    There's a bit of false information being thrown around here. Firstly it isin't neessecarily a fare increase but changes to fares with some going up and some going down. Also many are saying that there's been little improvement to justify it. There has been improvements a number of routes have been getting increases in frequency such as the 4, 14, 15, 16 and 27 new routes have been introduced or will be introduced in the coming months such as 40e, 66e, 155 and the 175.

    Many of the routes which have transferred to Go-Ahead have got frequency increases too especially at weekends also all these routes which have transferred were mostly operated by older vehicles but now have been replaced by either brand new vehicles or newer vehicles. I know Go-Ahead haven't been perfect so far but they are a new operator so it could take time for them to get properly up and running. Also 24 hour service should be introduced in the new year. So yes there are improvements.


  • #49
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Kh1993 wrote: »
    Tbf to OP, in that even though by mentioning the cash fare it’s completely missed the point, the most popular fare (Leap 2.15) has been increased yet again. 2.05 to 2.25 in what? A year?

    If we want to move to a flat fare, it's a fact of life that some fares will have to go down and others will have to go up. In general the fare system is becoming less complicated and the most expensive fares on Dublin City bus services have gone down, both for Children and Adults this year. That's more money back in the pockets of people who were forking out the most.
    It’s all well and good mentioning the 90 min discount and future 90 min fare, but at the end of the day it’s still another increase for the Leap Card user. Which doesn’t exactly incentivise public transport usage.

    It's an increase for one type of Leap Card users, those who use daily, weekly, single mode and multi-mode caps are not hit by this change, those paying the higher child fate now pay less, those paying the maximum Leap fare also pay less, so lets not dress it up as something that everyone who uses LEAP is taking a hit on.
    Then again, it’s the NTA we are dealing with.

    You do know that in past years when Dublin Bus made proposals to the NTA, rather than the NTA deciding themselves, Dublin Bus frequently wanted to hike fares to higher prices than the NTA would allow?


  • #50
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    devnull wrote: »
    If we want to move to a flat fare, it's a fact of life that some fares will have to go down and others will have to go up. In general the fare system is becoming less complicated and the most expensive fares on Dublin City bus services have gone down, both for Children and Adults this year. That's more money back in the pockets of people who were forking out the most.



    It's an increase for one type of Leap Card users, those who use daily, weekly, single mode and multi-mode caps are not hit by this change, those paying the higher child fate now pay less, those paying the maximum Leap fare also pay less, so lets not dress it up as something that everyone who uses LEAP is taking a hit on.



    You do know that in past years when Dublin Bus made proposals to the NTA, rather than the NTA deciding themselves, Dublin Bus frequently wanted to hike fares to higher prices than the NTA would allow?

    They looked for increases but always had products such as ramblers and travel 90 tickets.

    One could save quite a bit using these.


  • #51
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    They looked for increases but always had products such as ramblers and travel 90 tickets.

    One could save quite a bit using these.

    The trouble with Travel 90 was you physically had to buy a ticket, rather than it happening automatically and it was no use to anyone who used more than just the bus, so for someone who at the time didn't live near a DB ticket agent and has pretty much always had to use two modes, it wasn't very useful since a train + bus or LUAS + Bus was always quicker and/or more reliable.

    It depends what your usage pattern is though, but I've found capping and Leap 90 to be far more useful and save me more money than Travel 90 did, but understand there will be other people where Travel 90 might have suited them better.


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  • #52
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    devnull wrote: »
    The trouble with Travel 90 was you physically had to buy a ticket, rather than it happening automatically and it was no use to anyone who used more than just the bus, so for someone who at the time didn't live near a DB ticket agent and has pretty much almost always have used two modes, it wasn't very useful.

    It depends what your usage pattern is though, but I've found capping and Leap 90 to be far more useful and save me more money than Travel 90 did, but understand there will be other people where Travel 90 might have suited them better.

    There were feeder tickets and ramblers to suit bus and train also.


  • #53
    vrusinov
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭vrusinov


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    That's an awful lot of equipment to maintain and update.

    There are two validators now - on the right side and driver's. If cash fares are cancelled, the complicated unit from driver's side can be replaced with another simple validator for short-term fare.


  • #54
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    devnull wrote: »
    The trouble with Travel 90 was you physically had to buy a ticket, rather than it happening automatically and it was no use to anyone who used more than just the bus, so for someone who at the time didn't live near a DB ticket agent and has pretty much always had to use two modes, it wasn't very useful since a train + bus or LUAS + Bus was always quicker and/or more reliable.

    It depends what your usage pattern is though, but I've found capping and Leap 90 to be far more useful and save me more money than Travel 90 did, but understand there will be other people where Travel 90 might have suited them better.

    You could have bought a carnet of 10 or 20 of them if you were using them on a regular basis and didn't want to constantly have to go to the shop to buy them but I'd agree that Leap is a handy system than the travel 90. I do think though that they should have made the second bus free on Leap within 90 mins and only have the €1 charge apply to Luas, DART and commuter rail.


  • #55
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    There were feeder tickets and ramblers to suit bus and train also.

    Again, feeder tickets were not advertised at all, required knowledge that they existed, which even myself as a clued up transport user didn't know about, whereas capping like Leap 90, is automatic which is far more convenient.


  • #56
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    vrusinov wrote: »
    There are two validators now - on the right side and driver's. If cash fares are cancelled, the complicated unit from driver's side can be replaced with another simple validator for short-term fare.

    And welcome a huge amount of fare evasion when people use the cheaper validator when they are taking long trips?


  • #57
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    devnull wrote: »
    Again, feeder tickets were not advertised at all, required knowledge that they existed, which even myself as a clued up transport user didn't know about, whereas capping like Leap 90, is automatic which is far more convenient.

    I'm just stating there were products available that saved people money.

    The travel 90 across all will be great.


  • #58
    Qrt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭Qrt


    I'm almost certain that the NTA mentioned somewhere that it was "a flat fare or tag on/tag off system" so if they're not doing the flat fare, I can only assume its the latter...


  • #59
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    devnull wrote: »
    And welcome a huge amount of fare evasion when people use the cheaper validator when they are taking long trips?

    Fair point but people do can do it already by lying to the driver a second validator would just make it a lot more convenient for people to override as it's just a simple tap and no lies required. However the issues could be sorted if they hired a lot more dedicated revenue protection officers meaning that they aren't just relying on drivers.

    They should have two validators and a flat fare in my opinion one by the doors as is currently and another by the driver. Having two validators would help speed up boarding times. Better still would be a number of validators located throughout the bus away from the driver so people could scan their leap cards and hopefully contactless while the bus is in motion.


  • #60
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Qrt wrote: »
    I'm almost certain that the NTA mentioned somewhere that it was "a flat fare or tag on/tag off system" so if they're not doing the flat fare, I can only assume its the latter...

    I think they'll go for the flat fare option while keeping the €1.50 stages 1-3 fare option with driver interaction. These fare increases/decreases are to try and make the €2.60 and €2.15 fares meet in the middle. So a flat fare would likely be around the €2.40 mark.


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  • #61
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    They should have two validators and a foat fare in my opinion one by the doors as is currently and another by the driver. Having two validators would help speed up boarding times.

    It seems that the NTA are heading for a system where there is a short distance fare as well as a 90 minute transfer ticket and honestly, there are some ways that you can implement this with Leap, thanks to the features built into the Leap system, without encouraging fare evasion as well as gaining some of the benefits of a flat fare.

    For short journeys, you could simply deduct the flat transfer fare on tag on, say of £2.50 and if a passengers gets off after a short period and tags off, refund the difference between the short hop fare and the transfer fare, and mark the fare as completed so it can no longer be used for any transfers.

    This will allow you to have the benefit of removing driver interaction on boarding which is the biggest problem with dwell times, as well as guarding against most types of fare evasion. Not a perfect system, but it could be done without any investment in extra equipment and additional training.


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