DB fare increase

Gael23

Dublin Bus are increasing their fares from Dec 1st. A trip that was €2,85 is now €3.

Is the price of public transport in Dublin now so high that it’s cheaper to drive?

LeinsterDub

Gael23 wrote: »

Dublin Bus are increasing their fares from Dec 1st. A trip that was €2,85 is now €3.

Is the price of public transport in Dublin now so high that it’s cheaper to drive?

Get a leap card

Allinall

Gael23 wrote: »

Dublin Bus are increasing their fares from Dec 1st. A trip that was €2,85 is now €3.

Is the price of public transport in Dublin now so high that it’s cheaper to drive?

Leap

n!ghtmancometh

Get a Leap card, or if you commute by bus for work get a taxsaver ticket through your employer. If people insist on paying cash they deserve to be stung with high fares, as it slows down boarding tremendously.

Stephen15

Gael23 wrote: »

Dublin Bus are increasing their fares from Dec 1st. A trip that was €2,85 is now €3.

Is the price of public transport in Dublin now so high that it’s cheaper to drive?

It's only €2.50 or €2.25 with a leap card. Cash fare is penalised and rightly so as Leap Cards are more efficient and speed up the boarding process. I strongly recommend getting as hopefully the cash option will be removed from buses in the next year or two.

Gael23

Even with a Leap card it’s €4.50 a day or €22 for a working week now.

Wildly Boaring

Gael23 wrote: »

Even with a Leap card it’s €4.50 a day or €22 for a working week now.

Try driving a car for less.
Never mind parking it.

Stephen15

Gael23 wrote: »

Even with a Leap card it’s €4.50 a day or €22 for a working week now.

Then look into Taxsaver. At the end of the day public transport costs are quite high here in Ireland compared to other European countries but then again so is everthing.

LeinsterDub

Gael23 wrote: »

Even with a Leap card it’s €4.50 a day or €22 for a working week now.

I've 10 years no claims, no penalty points and car not too expensive. Insurance cost me 500 euro this year or basically a 10 er a week. That's before the cost of maintenance, tax ( about 200 euro a year or 2 euro a week) or depreciation or petrol

prinzeugen

Stephen15 wrote: »

It's only €2.50 or €2.25 with a leap card. Cash fare is penalised and rightly so as Leap Cards are more efficient and speed up the boarding process. I strongly recommend getting as hopefully the cash option will be removed from buses in the next year or two.

I have to disagree. It does not cost Dublin Bus €0.50 to count and lodge 3 or 4 coins in a bank. (Its done in bulk).

Also Leap takes longer than cash. Both buying and boarding. I never go into my local Spar on Fridays after 5 or on Mondays before 10 am. Why? Because there is a massive line of people waiting to top up leap cards. And it takes ages. Nothing quick about it.

Boarding it takes less than 7 seconds for cash and around 15 for Leap that involves the driver. Time it yourselves.

Also having a leap card does not suit everyone. I also believe that under EU law, its illegal to charge more for using a certain type of payment.

Qrt

prinzeugen wrote: »

I have to disagree. It does not cost Dublin Bus €0.50 to count and lodge 3 or 4 coins in a bank. (Its done in bulk).

Also Leap takes longer than cash. Both buying and boarding. I never go into my local Spar on Fridays after 5 or on Mondays before 10 am. Why? Because there is a massive line of people waiting to top up leap cards. And it takes ages. Nothing quick about it.

Boarding it takes less than 7 seconds for cash and around 15 for Leap that involves the driver. Time it yourselves.

Also having a leap card does not suit everyone. I also believe that under EU law, its illegal to charge more for using a certain type of payment.

This post gave me various illnesses. Use auto-top-up, most people use the right hand validator, and if it’s illegal to charge with different payment types then every transport system in the EU must be breaking it.

People using cash on buses need to be fired out of a cannon and off this island.

Victor

LeinsterDub wrote: »

tax ( about 200 euro a year or 2 euro a week)

€200 euro a year is €3.84 euro a week.

prinzeugen

prinzeugen wrote: »

I have to disagree. It does not cost Dublin Bus €0.50 to count and lodge 3 or 4 coins in a bank. (Its done in bulk).

Also Leap takes longer than cash. Both buying and boarding. I never go into my local Spar on Fridays after 5 or on Mondays before 10 am. Why? Because there is a massive line of people waiting to top up leap cards. And it takes ages. Nothing quick about it.

Boarding it takes less than 7 seconds for cash and around 15 for Leap that involves the driver. Time it yourselves.

Also having a leap card does not suit everyone. I also believe that under EU law, its illegal to charge more for using a certain type of payment.

my god

have you a vested interest youd like to declare because this is mostly nonsense tbh

StreetLight

Dublin Bus haven't increased the fares. Transport For Ireland have, which also affects Go Ahead.

uptherebels

[Deleted User] wrote: »

my god

have you a vested interest youd like to declare because this is mostly nonsense tbh

In cork it's the same. It takes alot longer for the machine to read cards than it does for me to hand a driver coins and he pushes a button.

OldMrBrennan83

The leap machines are very slow by tech standards in fairness. If they were actually worried about boarding spend then that would be a good port of call too.

LeinsterDub

Victor wrote: »

€200 euro a year is €3.84 euro a week.

Woops shouldn't have attempted maths at 1 in the morning and a couple of cans

CatInABox

My experience is only with Dublin Bus, but interacting with the driver is far slower than using the card machine on the right. I've regularly seen five or so people pass me by when I'm dealing with the driver, and I'm using a Leap card myself. Can't see coins being any faster, particularly waiting around for the little change receipt afterwards.

Thankfully this is all changing now, the cash receipts are gone (or are going soon), and in the next few years, the NTA are going to introduce the new ticket machines with new payment options (i.e. pay by contactless). That'll also coincide with the removal of cash as an option, so dwell times will be decreased massively.

Mrs OBumble

uptherebels wrote: »

In cork it's the same. It takes alot longer for the machine to read cards than it does for me to hand a driver coins and he pushes a button.

Same in Galway; Leap is chrapet but a lot slower than cash.

And outside Dublin we don't have right side validators.

Stephen15

prinzeugen wrote: »

I have to disagree. It does not cost Dublin Bus €0.50 to count and lodge 3 or 4 coins in a bank. (Its done in bulk).

Also Leap takes longer than cash. Both buying and boarding. I never go into my local Spar on Fridays after 5 or on Mondays before 10 am. Why? Because there is a massive line of people waiting to top up leap cards. And it takes ages. Nothing quick about it.

Boarding it takes less than 7 seconds for cash and around 15 for Leap that involves the driver. Time it yourselves.

Also having a leap card does not suit everyone. I also believe that under EU law, its illegal to charge more for using a certain type of payment.

I agree that the Leap system is slow that's because of the outdated and extremely slow wayfarer ticket machines which need to be replaced. I think a flat fare on Leap Cards, the introduction of contactless payements and faster validators would massively make dwell times fall.

As boarding being faster using cash that maybe for yourself as you might always have the fair ready but in my expierence many people who pay cash don't have the exact fare ready in their hand and start rooting around their purse or wallet for coins. Also many people paying cash underpay as the drivers machine has no way of counting the coins being paid.

Stephen15

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Same in Galway; Leap is chrapet but a lot slower than cash.

And outside Dublin we don't have right side validators.

Yes but Galway has a fraction of the passengers that Dublin has.

_Kaiser_

StreetLight wrote: »

Dublin Bus haven't increased the fares. Transport For Ireland have, which also affects Go Ahead.

The average punter won't know or care about TFI's role in the process.. All they'll see is the price is gone up again.

Leap is the obvious option but even that's not cheap compared to what the same services cost 5 or 10 years ago. Comparing it to the costs of running a car is even more ridiculous.

There's 2 issues here...

Public transport isn't cheap regardless of payment method and continues to increase for little if any improvement.

The cost of living in this country is so high in general that we've become desensitised to these regular price hikes for essential services. Instead it's accepted as inevitable.

Mongfinder General

I’ve sympathy for most people who have to use Dublin bus. Buses are packed from 7-10 and 4-7 every day. It’s obnoxious. And then there’s having to subsidize the scroungers who don’t pay a fare (not OAPs). If you can find another way like cycling, then do it.

TheQuietFella

Can a Leap Card be topped up online?

OldMrBrennan83

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Can a Leap Card be topped up online?

You can do via the app on your phone. Not sure if there's a website.

punisher5112

CatInABox wrote: »

My experience is only with Dublin Bus, but interacting with the driver is far slower than using the card machine on the right. I've regularly seen five or so people pass me by when I'm dealing with the driver, and I'm using a Leap card myself. Can't see coins being any faster, particularly waiting around for the little change receipt afterwards.

Thankfully this is all changing now, the cash receipts are gone (or are going soon), and in the next few years, the NTA are going to introduce the new ticket machines with new payment options (i.e. pay by contactless). That'll also coincide with the removal of cash as an option, so dwell times will be decreased massively.

Change tickets are no more.

The machine takes an age to read the LEAP card.

If people have ramblers loaded it also stores the used up ones so there can be 5 products on the one card which slows it up even more.

Next time watch when students use the smart card reader at the door and count how long it takes for a beep.

Tfi increases the fares as stated previously.

Go Ahead also have the increase and since they started their 1st route the change tickets were withdrawn.

New machines are needed badly as it's pretty 2000 tech and not fit for purpose.

There should only be a reader like in London beside the driver where everyone must scan as they walk on as so many sneak on it unreal.

i use dublin bus every day and its grand. busy at peak times but ....its public transport in a city?

dunno how anyone could call it expensive tbh.

cheaper alternatives: walking, cycling and eh that's it

comparison to anything else hardly relevant.

punisher5112

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Can a Leap Card be topped up online?

Yes but you must still go to a shop or luas or train station machine to load the top up.

Sort of pointless really.

There is no excuse not to have credit as of auto top up and one can also add rambler tickets.

It will soon change where one can travel on all modes of transport in 90 minutes for the one fare.

Example.... Get bus and then dart and luas all within 90 minutes and it costs no extra each change.

Spanish Eyes

Is the eventual plan to have just one flat fare?

If that is the case, everyone will use the validator. The only interraction with driver will be cash payers, and those purchasing a ticket for a companion on the FTP.

What do you reckon the flat fare would be? I'm guessing 2.50. Those going on short journeys should not be catered for with a cheaper fare. All or nothing I say!

Dravokivich

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Can a Leap Card be topped up online?

You can purchase online, but it has no way to receive the top up without being used. And can take some time for the top up to be available. Your much better off using mobile phone if it's able to use the app. After that, I tend to use ticket machines at luas and Irish rail. As I can see what I'm doing with it.

howiya

Patww79 wrote: »

You can do via the app on your phone. Not sure if there's a website.

There is a website but you have to wait 24 hours and then go to a shop/luas stop to collect your credit.

App is for android phones only

I happen to walk past luas stops most days so thats where I top up mine

OldMrBrennan83

punisher5112 wrote: »

Yes but you must still go to a shop or luas or train station machine to load the top up.

Sort of pointless really.

There is no excuse not to have credit as of auto top up and one can also add rambler tickets.

It will soon change where one can travel on all modes of transport in 90 minutes for the one fare.

Example.... Get bus and then dart and luas all within 90 minutes and it costs no extra each change.

Can you not do it via the app? I was under the impression that you could (never had to top it up). If you have to do it that way then it's going in the bin.

Dravokivich

Gael23 wrote: »

Dublin Bus are increasing their fares from Dec 1st. A trip that was €2,85 is now €3.

Is the price of public transport in Dublin now so high that it’s cheaper to drive?

It wasn't just Dublin bus. I think every PSO provider has upped their fares.

TheQuietFella

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Can a Leap Card be topped up online?

I think it needs to be presented to a machine to be topped up, because it happens via NFC.

As mentioned I use my phone, you can top up the card in 30s.

devnull

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Is the eventual plan to have just one flat fare?

If that is the case, everyone will use the validator. The only interraction with driver will be cash payers, and those purchasing a ticket for a companion on the FTP.

Yes but it has to be done gradually because operators such as Dublin Bus and Irish Rail are dependent on farebox revenue to fund their operations so they don't want to take on a big revenue risk at once so it's being done gradually.

From today there is a flat fare for children for the first time and the top two adult fares have took a step closer to being merged.

Spanish Eyes

devnull wrote: »

Yes but it has to be done gradually because operators such as Dublin Bus and Irish Rail are dependent on farebox revenue to fund their operations so they don't want to take on a big revenue risk at once so it's being done gradually.

From today there is a flat fare for children for the first time and the top two adult fares have took a step closer to being merged.

The problem remains though, that there might still be a "low fare" for short journeys. That will mean continuing interraction with the driver.

Flat fare is the way to go, no matter how short or long your journey is within the relevant zone/stage system.

In reality, the majority of those who need to take the bus for short journeys due to mobility issues etc. will have FTP anyway.

antodeco

May be a silly question, but if you see the validator on the right, aren't you charged the maximum rate as oppose to just the journey cost? (I'll be travelling DB from the new year!)

devnull

antodeco wrote: »

May be a silly question, but if you see the validator on the right, aren't you charged the maximum rate as oppose to just the journey cost? (I'll be travelling DB from the new year!)

Maximum Leap Rate

Dravokivich

antodeco wrote: »

May be a silly question, but if you see the validator on the right, aren't you charged the maximum rate as oppose to just the journey cost? (I'll be travelling DB from the new year!)

A set fare is on it depending on the service type, such as standard, airlink, xrpesso... (Not by route).

As I'm getting 6 buses a day, it doesn't matter to me the individual cost of a small journey, I'm going to hit the daily and weekly cap anyway, so I just use that validator.

Idbatterim

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I've 10 years no claims, no penalty points and car not too expensive. Insurance cost me 500 euro this year or basically a 10 er a week. That's before the cost of maintenance, tax ( about 200 euro a year or 2 euro a week) or depreciation or petrol

Hang on. One can get you anywhere you need to go at any time, in your own space and comfort! Motor tax at e200 is nothing ...

Victor

antodeco wrote: »

May be a silly question, but if you see the validator on the right, aren't you charged the maximum rate as oppose to just the journey cost? (I'll be travelling DB from the new year!)

Yes, but if you are going to hit the daily / weekly cap anyway, it won't matter to you.

vrusinov

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The problem remains though, that there might still be a "low fare" for short journeys. That will mean continuing interraction with the driver.

If there is only two fares there can be simply two validators, no need to interact with a driver.

Dravokivich

vrusinov wrote: »

If there is only two fares there can be simply two validators, no need to interact with a driver.

That's an awful lot of equipment to maintain and update.

CatInABox

You can use the android app to update your leap card. It requires NFC on your phone.

It's also possible to set up auto-top-up, so that you never have to worry about it again.

caviardreams

CatInABox wrote: »

You can use the android app to update your leap card. It requires NFC on your phone.

It's also possible to set up auto-top-up, so that you never have to worry about it again.

+1 Auto top up is unreal - just set it up and forget about it!

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

Yes but it has to be done gradually because operators such as Dublin Bus and Irish Rail are dependent on farebox revenue to fund their operations so they don't want to take on a big revenue risk at once so it's being done gradually.

From today there is a flat fare for children for the first time and the top two adult fares have took a step closer to being merged.

That makes me wonder a with DB keeping all their revenue it would make me assume the revenue from the likes of DB Rambler etc. What I wonder is are the NTA conceding a loss by allowing them be accepted on GAI services. Don't get me wrong I think it's the right thing to be done but still makes me wonder all the same.

What they should do in the short run is bring in a bus hopper fare similar to London with a view to extending it out to DART, Luas and Commuter Rail in the long run. I think it's bad that Travel 90 never migrated to Leap and was replaced by a Leap 90 discount which means you can get the second bus, train or tram for €1 obivously it's a good move but I think if stayed on the buses you should get the second free like with Travel 90 but have it an extra Euro for Luas, DART or Commuter Rail.

Kh1993

Tbf to OP, in that even though by mentioning the cash fare it’s completely missed the point, the most popular fare (Leap 2.15) has been increased yet again. 2.05 to 2.25 in what? A year?

It’s all well and good mentioning the 90 min discount and future 90 min fare, but at the end of the day it’s still another increase for the Leap Card user. Which doesn’t exactly incentivise public transport usage. Then again, it’s the NTA we are dealing with.

Stephen15

Kh1993 wrote: »

Tbf to OP, in that even though by mentioning the cash fare it’s completely missed the point, the most popular fare (Leap 2.15) has been increased yet again. 2.05 to 2.25 in what? A year?

It’s all well and good mentioning the 90 min discount and future 90 min fare, but at the end of the day it’s still another increase for the Leap Card user. Which doesn’t exactly incentivise public transport usage. Then again, it’s the NTA we are dealing with.

It's not the most popular Leap fare I would say the €2.50 right hand validator fare is either just as popular if not more popular than the €2.25 fare. The majority of people travelling into the city centre from an area of beyond 13 stages as the €2.25 fare only really covers the inner suburbs unless people are underpaying.

There's a bit of false information being thrown around here. Firstly it isin't neessecarily a fare increase but changes to fares with some going up and some going down. Also many are saying that there's been little improvement to justify it. There has been improvements a number of routes have been getting increases in frequency such as the 4, 14, 15, 16 and 27 new routes have been introduced or will be introduced in the coming months such as 40e, 66e, 155 and the 175.

Many of the routes which have transferred to Go-Ahead have got frequency increases too especially at weekends also all these routes which have transferred were mostly operated by older vehicles but now have been replaced by either brand new vehicles or newer vehicles. I know Go-Ahead haven't been perfect so far but they are a new operator so it could take time for them to get properly up and running. Also 24 hour service should be introduced in the new year. So yes there are improvements.

devnull

Kh1993 wrote: »

Tbf to OP, in that even though by mentioning the cash fare it’s completely missed the point, the most popular fare (Leap 2.15) has been increased yet again. 2.05 to 2.25 in what? A year?

If we want to move to a flat fare, it's a fact of life that some fares will have to go down and others will have to go up. In general the fare system is becoming less complicated and the most expensive fares on Dublin City bus services have gone down, both for Children and Adults this year. That's more money back in the pockets of people who were forking out the most.

It’s all well and good mentioning the 90 min discount and future 90 min fare, but at the end of the day it’s still another increase for the Leap Card user. Which doesn’t exactly incentivise public transport usage.

It's an increase for one type of Leap Card users, those who use daily, weekly, single mode and multi-mode caps are not hit by this change, those paying the higher child fate now pay less, those paying the maximum Leap fare also pay less, so lets not dress it up as something that everyone who uses LEAP is taking a hit on.

Then again, it’s the NTA we are dealing with.

You do know that in past years when Dublin Bus made proposals to the NTA, rather than the NTA deciding themselves, Dublin Bus frequently wanted to hike fares to higher prices than the NTA would allow?

punisher5112

devnull wrote: »

If we want to move to a flat fare, it's a fact of life that some fares will have to go down and others will have to go up. In general the fare system is becoming less complicated and the most expensive fares on Dublin City bus services have gone down, both for Children and Adults this year. That's more money back in the pockets of people who were forking out the most.



It's an increase for one type of Leap Card users, those who use daily, weekly, single mode and multi-mode caps are not hit by this change, those paying the higher child fate now pay less, those paying the maximum Leap fare also pay less, so lets not dress it up as something that everyone who uses LEAP is taking a hit on.



You do know that in past years when Dublin Bus made proposals to the NTA, rather than the NTA deciding themselves, Dublin Bus frequently wanted to hike fares to higher prices than the NTA would allow?

They looked for increases but always had products such as ramblers and travel 90 tickets.

One could save quite a bit using these.

devnull

punisher5112 wrote: »

They looked for increases but always had products such as ramblers and travel 90 tickets.

One could save quite a bit using these.

The trouble with Travel 90 was you physically had to buy a ticket, rather than it happening automatically and it was no use to anyone who used more than just the bus, so for someone who at the time didn't live near a DB ticket agent and has pretty much always had to use two modes, it wasn't very useful since a train + bus or LUAS + Bus was always quicker and/or more reliable.

It depends what your usage pattern is though, but I've found capping and Leap 90 to be far more useful and save me more money than Travel 90 did, but understand there will be other people where Travel 90 might have suited them better.