2020/21 NBA season + Olympics

Sweet.Science · 13-01-2021 12:21pm

ButtersSuki wrote: »

He's an embarrassment to himself the way he's let himself go. I've watched a few of his workout videos, he certainly puts in the effort when he wants to - this is just a complete FU to Houston.

Thats exactly what it is. He is forcing their hand. I dont even know how he could put on that much weight intentionally . He must be eating in bed instead of sleeping

Coneygree · 13-01-2021 12:37pm

Harden's weight gain is bizarre. I might be going daft but I was sure when he played a few weeks ago he wasn't as nearly as fat as he is now.

Kyrie is almost a parody of himself with his weirdness. There's hard evidence he was out celebrating his sister's birthday. Nash must be going daft. And even though Durant is close to Kyrie he must be upset too. He didn't go through a hard rehab to get back to a level near Warriors KD for Kyrie to mess around.

buyer95 · 13-01-2021 4:54pm

ButtersSuki wrote: »

He's an embarrassment to himself the way he's let himself go. I've watched a few of his workout videos, he certainly puts in the effort when he wants to - this is just a complete FU to Houston.

A complete FU is right. Here are some quotes from post game last night.

"We're just not good enough - chemistry, talent-wise, just everything." "I love this city. I literally have done everything that I can," said Harden. "I mean, this situation is crazy. It's something that I don't think can be fixed."

We're not even close, honestly, to that team - obviously the defending champions - and all the other elite teams out there," he told a news conference. "I mean, you can tell the difference in these last two games.

I'd have a few thoughts on those quotes. Firstly way to go throwing your teamates under the bus as being not talented enough, secondly the chemistry issue starts and ends with him. He is the best player and the team leader.

He's right they are not close to the Lakers. But they are a hell of a lot better than what they have shown against them in the last two games. Lack of effort is as much to blame as talent disparity. The Rockets can certainly hang with the Lakers in a regular season game, if Harden is engaged. Also it is worth noting that Harden has done everything he could in years past to put Houston over the top, and they have come close. None more so than when they should have made the NBA Finals in 18 after going 3-2 ahead in the conference finals against the Warriors. That was a serious team and would most likely have won that game 7 if CP3 didn't go down. Those are great memories for Rockets fans. It's awful to see it end like this. But I think it's fair to say that James took one look at this roster and decided he can't win with them. He is obviously pushing on in age too, so that has played into it also I'm sure.

All of this means one thing. The situation is now at breaking point, and is becoming damaging to Houston. They can hold Harden and try and get a better deal, but the longer this goes on the harder it will be for Silas to have any chance at turning the culture around. It's not even about winning, if Harden goes and they get back picks and young guys then obviously a big rebuild will be on the cards. But bad habits are hard to break, and Silas will find it very difficult unless he gets him out ASAP

pjohnson · 13-01-2021 7:59pm

Seems Harden is out ASAP.

Going by Twitter Brooklyn have put everyone (except KD) and 3 picks on the table to get him.

Philly offering Simmons.

Harden wants Philly but Brooklyns offer more appealing. His comments seem to have accelarated everything dramatically.

buyer95 · 13-01-2021 8:58pm

Yeah the death knell has definitely sounded on his time in Houston.
Per Woj
"The Rockets are planning to keep Harden away until a trade is done --- with front office weighing best final offers from Brooklyn and Philadelphia, sources tell @ramonashelburne and me. Process is moving quickly now."

buyer95 · 13-01-2021 10:22pm

And it's done. Harden to the Nets. Full trade details

Brooklyn - James Harden

Houston - Caris LeVert, Dante Exum, Rodions Kurcus, 4 1st Round Picks, 4 Pick Swaps

Cleveland - Jarret Allen, Taurean Prince

WOW. ðŸ€¯ðŸ€¯ðŸ€¯

(via @wojespn)

Top Dog · 13-01-2021 10:23pm

Looks like he's gone - https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30706097/sources-houston-rockets-trade-james-harden-brooklyn-nets

Morrison J · 13-01-2021 10:24pm

Oladipo going to Houston too, Lavert to Indiana

pjohnson · 13-01-2021 10:26pm

buyer95 wrote: »

And it's done. Harden to the Nets. Full trade details

Brooklyn - James Harden

Houston - Caris LeVert, Dante Exum, Rodions Kurcus, 4 1st Round Picks, 4 Pick Swaps

Cleveland - Jarret Allen, Taurean Prince

WOW. ðŸ€¯ðŸ€¯ðŸ€¯

(via @wojespn)

Oladipo is involved.

LuckyGent88 · 13-01-2021 10:28pm

Ah go all out and trade Kyrie to Washington for Westbrook. I want an OKC reunion !!!!

Coneygree · 13-01-2021 10:31pm

What on earth is going on. Nets will be looking to put up 200 pts a night while conceding 190 a night.

Morrison J · 13-01-2021 10:32pm

Surprised the Sixers let it come to this and weren't willing to top it especially with Morey pulling the strings.

I get it's a big if with that many diva's who demand the ball on one team but if they gel that Nets offense is scary. What team is guarding Durant, Kyrie and Harden with Joe Harris sitting in the corner.

K.O.Kiki · 13-01-2021 10:33pm

2020: "Man, what a crazy season."
2021: "Hold my beard."

buyer95 · 13-01-2021 10:35pm

Morrison J wrote: »

Surprised the Sixers let it come to this and weren't willing to top it especially with Morey pulling the strings.

I get it's a big if with that many diva's who demand the ball on one team but if they gel that Nets offense is scary. What team is guarding Durant, Kyrie and Harden with Joe Harris sitting in the corner.

Yeah but will they be able to stop anybody? They will be a lot of fun, but not convinced there is enough defence their to stop Lakers. Time will tell, and I'm certainly excited to see how it works out.

Coneygree · 13-01-2021 10:37pm

Nets will have to have Deandre Jordan playing 30mins a night, Jesus bloody wept.

I guess Houston will flip Oladipo for picks when they can. Decent rebuild tbh.

Morrison J · 13-01-2021 10:42pm

buyer95 wrote: »

Yeah but will they be able to stop anybody? They will be a lot of fun, but not convinced there is enough defence their to stop Lakers. Time will tell, and I'm certainly excited to see how it works out.

Yeah that's the big question. Don't see how they matchup well to stop Davis either.

Coneygree · 13-01-2021 10:43pm

Although I think Simmons is highly disrespected and didn't deserve to end up in Houston, I wanted to see Harden at Philly badly.

Morrison J · 13-01-2021 10:51pm

Coneygree wrote: »

I guess Houston will flip Oladipo for picks when they can. Decent rebuild tbh.

Contract expires in the summer though. Nice trade for the Pacers tbf.

Morrison J · 13-01-2021 10:53pm

Coneygree wrote: »

Although I think Simmons is highly disrespected and didn't deserve to end up in Houston, I wanted to see Harden at Philly badly.

Very surprised that move didn't happen to be honest. If I'm the Rockets I'd much prefer Simmons as a piece than those draft picks that prob won't amount to much. Wonder if the Rockets just didn't want to deal Harden back to Morey.

Wouldn't be surprised to see the Sixers move for Beal now. They definitely need to make a move.

Coneygree · 13-01-2021 11:02pm

Brooklyn went from a crazy deep bench to a shocking one. No Dinwiddie, Lavert or Allen. Whatever about the Clippers going all in for Paul George, the Nets really are.

Corvo · 13-01-2021 11:07pm

They better hope this works

nerd69 · 13-01-2021 11:15pm

I mean it's a better team than the deron pp kg team for sure but I'd have thought brooklyn of all teams would be cautious giving out picks like that. Are these ones protected at least

ButtersSuki · 13-01-2021 11:51pm

Very strange trade IMO. I think Houston undersold and ultimately the Nets gave too much away (not to Houston though). I’m too tired to comment fully on it now, I will in the morning when I’ve had time to digest it.

pjohnson · 14-01-2021 12:53am

Breakdown team by team here

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/01/rockets-to-trade-james-harden-to-nets.html?fv-home=true&post-id=200736

Carcharodon · 14-01-2021 7:28am

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Very strange trade IMO. I think Houston undersold and ultimately the Nets gave too much away (not to Houston though). I’m too tired to comment fully on it now, I will in the morning when I’ve had time to digest it.

Yea, it’s peculiar but I find most of these big trades these days are hard to judge because of so many moving parts and giving value to assets, picks etc.

On the face of it for me, Harden isn’t a great sell now, he looks out of shape, his attitude stinks, he is no doubt a great scorer and player but he has never got over the line.
Not getting over the line is fine and creating a super team like Warriors or Lakers works but great talent doesn’t guarantee great success, the players have to buy into the system to gain success.
Will Harden buy into this ?
Will Kyrie stay anyway reliable for the season, his issues really can’t be downplayed.
And while Nets have gained a superstar, they have weakened the entire team, especially a player like Allen, it’s always a risky move to put all your eggs in one basket, I personally think it’s not a great move for the Nets but who knows.

I am not a fan of how Harden kept Houston hostage, he hasn’t done enough to warrant that type of behavior.
I ve watched a lot of Harden getting punked by the Warriors over the past few years, maying having Durant now will change that.

The biggest loser is Steve Nash, trying to manage the egos on this team.

tyivpc5qjx0f2b · 14-01-2021 9:10am

I think the Rockets very clearly won this trade. I can't imagine a situation where someone can conclude otherwise.
I understand the historical instances of superstar for pieces scenario but strong case to be made that recent examples have been more favourable to the teams who received pieces.

Nevertheless, Hardens situation is more unique as he tanked his historical value through petulance and poor conditioning while also reducing his current market value further through limiting his trade destinations.
Although he didn't have a trade veto, other potential suitors -assume Kings for argument- arent willing to remortgage in light of his behaviour/play.
When Cousins is calling you out for your behaviour, you know there are some serious issues.

On pure talent alone perhaps a case can be made for the Rockets having lost but

Oladipo (looks fantastic again, high value expiring contract)
Exum
Kurucs
four unprotected first-round picks (Brooklyn 2022, 2024 and 2026, Milwaukee 2022), and four unprotected first-round pick swaps (2021, 2023, 2025, 2027)

For

Harden
2nd round pick

That's a fantastic haul for a disenfranchised unfit 31 year old with limited destinations.
The reason Philly didn't match this trade is because Morey is shrewd enough to know the Rockets got too much.

Not quite the same but some potential Garnett, Pierce & Allen deja vu going on here.

2smiggy · 14-01-2021 9:17am

what will Irving and Harden do trying to play together ? Find it a very strange trade. On paper looks like too ass-holes brought onto the same team, and giving a decent bit of their future away (again)

pjohnson · 14-01-2021 10:01am

Brooklyn need defence, afaik they have 2 roster spots open so surely they will look for defensive players to fill those spots.

Sweet.Science · 14-01-2021 10:40am

pjohnson wrote: »

Brooklyn need defence, afaik they have 2 roster spots open so surely they will look for defensive players to fill those spots.

I think they have 3. Brown is a good defender but will need help . They have extra cap space as Dinwiddie is gone for the year . If they can manage to get a couple of hustlers in they will take a lot of beaten . However who knows what Kyrie will do

The league needed this though .

Also , people are now sleeping on the Pacers .

tyivpc5qjx0f2b · 14-01-2021 11:02am

Sweet.Science wrote: »

I think they have 3. Brown is a good defender but will need help . They have extra cap space as Dinwiddie is gone for the year . If they can manage to get a couple of hustlers in they will take a lot of beaten . However who knows what Kyrie will do

The league needed this though .

Also , people are now sleeping on the Pacers .

Extra cap space is little value if you have zero assets to trade in order to acquire expiring contracts.
They'll largely be resigned to buyouts and have a host of teams to compete with there.

In terms of their beating, imo this trade isn't just poor long term, I question the short term value.

You add a disengaged unfit high usage scorer who's prowess is most evident in the regular season.
The Nets have two of the leagues best scorers over the past 10 years, fire power is not what they're light on.
If the goal is to be an unbelievable scoring team in the regular season, then mission -potentially- accomplished.

Evident things they have to contend with:

Poor defensive backcourt
Harden effort/fitness
KD injury history
Kyrie ongoing issues
Rookie head coach
Zero trade assets
Covid on a very top heavy roster

They're just the obvious ones.

I think they'll struggle to get to the conference finals.

The Heat, Celtics, Sixers & Bucks have the beating of them come playoff time.

2020/21 NBA season + Olympics

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