Law Firm Milkrounds 20/21

FE1new · 12-11-2020 10:19am

rightytighty wrote: »

FE1s are infinitely less important than experience. I wrote a long post about my experience with the process in last year’s thread that I’ll try to dig up. Will edit this post with its addition.

*edit*

It seems to really be your preference whether you do a masters or not. I haven’t heard of any firms preferring you to have one.

I actually finally secured a contract this time around after four years of applying and so will share my thoughts on the process in case it is of use to anyone. I had interviews with 6 firms (including 3 big 5) which was up from 2 interviews in general last year and never being called beforehand.

I think most important is to respect how competitive the process is. Firms will give training contracts to people after summer internships following two years of their degree programme so it is in my opinion it is just about the overall strength of your application.

There are loads of initial criteria by which everyone is assessed ie leaving cert, college grades, and personal hobbies/achievements. If you are lacking in some or all of these areas it is best to build yourself up in others. I think what swung it for me was my work experience.

I had just under 500 LC points, a 2.1 from TCD, and some good work experience pre-graduation but my first and second year grades weren’t great. Anyone with a top end leaving and consistent college grades would have beaten me until I strengthened elsewhere.

I held two full time roles after graduating which gave me plenty to talk about on applications. It allowed me to identify practice areas which interested me and to learn about different firms’ activities in those areas. This is an easy way to show you have researched the firm and to explain why you’re a good fit for them.

If I had any advice it would be not to take any rejection personally and to try and use your self-belief to motivate yourself to persist. If you keep gaining experience and plug away with the FE1s eventually your applications will show dedication and resilience and the interviews will come.

I don’t know if this is even helpful but I remember feeling terribly disheartened and wanting to throw the towel in when I had no success last year. I didn’t even want to apply this year. You owe it to yourself and all you’ve done to date to keep at it so don’t give up!!

Thank you so much. Yes it is really disheartening. I have experience working in a firm as a legal secretary and have good grades and 2.1 in college but not so great LC results (low 400s). I think my issue is the applications. Based on the advice I think I need to go and do a lot of work on that as looking at them now they don't sell that experience.

Thank you @rightytighty, @law987, @lgoPAP. I really appreciate all the advice. I was so lost.

IgoPAP · 12-11-2020 11:32am

FE1new wrote: »

Thank you so much. Yes it is really disheartening. I have experience working in a firm as a legal secretary and have good grades and 2.1 in college but not so great LC results (low 400s). I think my issue is the applications. Based on the advice I think I need to go and do a lot of work on that as looking at them now they don't sell that experience.

Thank you @rightytighty, @law987, @lgoPAP. I really appreciate all the advice. I was so lost.

The thing to remember is that the further you are from college the less those grades matter. If you have experience in the legal world that you will stand to you a lot more in the long-run.

LawCandidate · 12-11-2020 11:48am

Have Arthur Cox PFOs been sent out yet??

irishmisile · 12-11-2020 11:52am

LawCandidate wrote: »

Have Arthur Cox PFOs been sent out yet??

Haven’t been sent mine yet from AC

irishmisile · 12-11-2020 12:07pm

The absolute dread and anxiety waiting to hear back from a firm you thought you interviewed well with

the baby bull elephant · 12-11-2020 12:32pm

irishmisile wrote: »

The absolute dread and anxiety waiting to hear back from a firm you thought you interviewed well with

Currently going through this. If I don't get a call today I know for certain I didn't get through. Very frustrating.

Fe119 · 12-11-2020 1:01pm

FE1new wrote: »

Thank you so much. Yes it is really disheartening. I have experience working in a firm as a legal secretary and have good grades and 2.1 in college but not so great LC results (low 400s). I think my issue is the applications. Based on the advice I think I need to go and do a lot of work on that as looking at them now they don't sell that experience.

Thank you @rightytighty, @law987, @lgoPAP. I really appreciate all the advice. I was so lost.

I feel disheartened too. I had a good enough leaving cert at just 500 but literally got just under a 2.1 in my degree in the end which really did not reflect my capabilities at all. I've got a good bit of experience but the applications still make me feel ill.

We'll get there!

IgoPAP · 12-11-2020 4:11pm

Interviews for Arthur Cox out. They said that they received the highest number of applicants this year and 15 percent of candidates are making it to the group interview stage.

the baby bull elephant · 12-11-2020 4:34pm

Has anyone who interviewed with DE heard back yet?

musicmanual123 · 12-11-2020 5:19pm

Has AC sent pfo yet?

law987 · 12-11-2020 5:29pm

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

Has anyone who interviewed with DE heard back yet?

I have 2nd round tomorrow, have you done 2nd round already?

the baby bull elephant · 12-11-2020 5:59pm

law987 wrote: »

I have 2nd round tomorrow, have you done 2nd round already?

No I did the first round last week and haven't heard since. I won't get an email confirming I didn't get it until they finish the second round interviews. Very annoying way of doing it.

lamacg95 · 12-11-2020 6:08pm

Has anyone any idea what the Arthur cox group interviews are like? Abs what the discussion topic is like?

azee76 · 12-11-2020 6:17pm

I applied to the AC internship in March when I was in second year of my undergrad. Passed the group interview but "failed" the individual interview.

I applied recently to the AC traineeship and they've selected me for a group interview.

Fe1forthefun · 12-11-2020 7:12pm

law987 wrote: »

I have 2nd round tomorrow, have you done 2nd round already?

Oh no I am now assuming I didn't get second one! When did you do your first one?

Fe1forthefun · 12-11-2020 7:18pm

Anybody hear from Fieldfisher, Dechert or Hayes?

caius97 · 12-11-2020 7:23pm

Fe1forthefun wrote: »

Anybody hear from Fieldfisher, Dechert or Hayes?

Didn’t apply to Dechert, but haven’t heard from Hayes or field fisher!

caius97 · 12-11-2020 7:25pm

Actually just looked at my confirmation email from Hayes and it says “we will contact you after the 25 October 2019 deadline” did others get the same with the wrong year?

Beatriz2020 · 12-11-2020 7:50pm

caius97 wrote: »

Actually just looked at my confirmation email from Hayes and it says “we will contact you after the 25 October 2019 deadline” did others get the same with the wrong year?

Yes, same for me. I think they just haven’t updated the automatic reply!

Dliodoir2020 · 12-11-2020 8:38pm

musicmanual123 wrote: »

Has AC sent pfo yet?

I haven't received a PFO from them yet. More than likely will be sometime after 4/5 tomorrow (to avoid anyone complaining to them ahahaha). The joys of milkrounds.

IgoPAP · 12-11-2020 8:58pm

Dliodoir2020 wrote: »

I haven't received a PFO from them yet. More than likely will be sometime after 4/5 tomorrow (to avoid anyone complaining to them ahahaha). The joys of milkrounds.

If they want to be really strategic about it they should send it Friday afternoon!

Fe1forthefun · 12-11-2020 9:27pm

What are people's favourite places that they have interviewed at so far?

Just interested to see the vibes of the different firms.

law987 · 12-11-2020 9:27pm

Fe1forthefun wrote: »

Oh no I am now assuming I didn't get second one! When did you do your first one?

Had my first one Monday

Fe1forthefun · 12-11-2020 9:32pm

law987 wrote: »

Had my first one Monday

Thanks Law987. You seem to be getting loads of interviews - well done to you!

Would you mind if I asked whether you got a first in your degree? If you don't feel comfortable answering, that is completely fine! I'm just trying to see what I can build on in any further applications I submit.

law987 · 12-11-2020 9:41pm

Ya I got a 1st, just about! It's getting me interviews all right but after that grades don't matter at all none of them have mentioned it.

I've gotten a fair share of PFOs too

I suppose on your application try have a few things they know will be interesting to talk about at interview, literally any experience even if non law related

jus_me · 12-11-2020 10:46pm

Any word from Hayes guys? Are they a good firm to work with has anyone heard any positives?

IgoPAP · 12-11-2020 11:26pm

jus_me wrote: »

Any word from Hayes guys? Are they a good firm to work with has anyone heard any positives?

Mid-tier firm, good reputation. They've been expanding.

LeGal97 · 13-11-2020 12:07am

Great, I haven't got a PFO from DE at all.... so disheartening! I only applied to Fieldfisher this year but I wont get my hopes up...I'm a 2.1, 500 point L+B grad now and last year it was rejection after rejection so I held back on applying everywhere this year because I knew it would be the same. I really need to get some experience now I think!

Does anyone have words of wisdom for me? I don't want to go to a top 5 firm anyway... but running out of ideas

Fe1forthefun · 13-11-2020 12:13am

LeGal97 wrote: »

Great, I haven't got a PFO from DE at all.... so disheartening! I only applied to Fieldfisher this year but I wont get my hopes up...I'm a 2.1, 500 point L+B grad now and last year it was rejection after rejection so I held back on applying everywhere this year because I knew it would be the same. I really need to get some experience now I think!

Does anyone have words of wisdom for me? I don't want to go to a top 5 firm anyway... but running out of ideas

I have heard of loads of people getting training contract interviews after doing contract work at law firms. I think its all about getting your foot in the door somewhere! Alternatively send your CV to some recruiters and say you are looking for legal work.

Fe1forthefun · 13-11-2020 12:14am

LeGal97 wrote: »

Great, I haven't got a PFO from DE at all.... so disheartening! I only applied to Fieldfisher this year but I wont get my hopes up...I'm a 2.1, 500 point L+B grad now and last year it was rejection after rejection so I held back on applying everywhere this year because I knew it would be the same. I really need to get some experience now I think!

Does anyone have words of wisdom for me? I don't want to go to a top 5 firm anyway... but running out of ideas

Fieldfisher are hiring for a legal secretary- you should go for it! Once the firm meet you and realise you are a good employee, you have a 10000% more of a chance of getting a training contract. Otherwise you are literally just a piece of paper to them.

LeGal97 · 13-11-2020 12:16am

Fe1forthefun wrote: »

I have heard of loads of people getting training contract interviews after doing contract work at law firms. I think its all about getting your foot in the door somewhere! Alternatively send your CV to some recruiters and say you are looking for legal work.

That is a good idea!! I will do that.. after all the PFO's last year for both traineeships and internships (after doing a good internship the year before) I really do not know where I am going wrong. I'm going to email some of the small firms in my county and see does anyone need a hand soon also, anything is better than nothing at this stage!

LeGal97 · 13-11-2020 12:17am

Fe1forthefun wrote: »

Fieldfisher are hiring for a legal secretary- you should go for it! Once the firm meet you and realise you are a good employee, you have a 10000% more of a chance of getting a training contract. Otherwise you are literally just a piece of paper to them.

I did apply for their traineeship so I will 100% look into that. I am not from Dublin is the only thing but I could make it work. Thank you!!

bubbagumss · 13-11-2020 12:19am

January is when they take people on look at each ones website they advertise on their own website in November

IgoPAP · 13-11-2020 12:19am

LeGal97 wrote: »

I did apply for their traineeship so I will 100% look into that. I am not from Dublin is the only thing but I could make it work. Thank you!!

I think you should have someone take a look at your application. If you're getting rejection after rejection with good grades than there is something wrong with how you're filling out your application.

Fe1forthefun · 13-11-2020 12:21am

LeGal97 wrote: »

I did apply for their traineeship so I will 100% look into that. I am not from Dublin is the only thing but I could make it work. Thank you!!

They will probably mostly be WFH at the moment and there are more rental places in Dublin than usual because more people have moved down the country.

They have probably received about 500 training contract applications, but they might only receive 15 or so for the legal secretary. You have much more of a chance of standing out there and inadvertently ending up with a traineeship.

If you get a legal secretary interview DM me because I have a similar role previously and can tell you what they are looking for.

LeGal97 · 13-11-2020 12:24am

IgoPAP wrote: »

I think you should have someone take a look at your application. If you're getting rejection after rejection with good grades than there is something wrong with how you're filling out your application.

I have been.. my best friend always reviews them for me/gives me pointers, he's done his fair share of them. He got AC straight off and the bat, but he got a 1.1 and excellent grades. I even went to the CV clinics in college last year for some of the firms, so I really do not know where I am going wrong.

IgoPAP · 13-11-2020 12:25am

I hope people don't become too disheartened with PFOs. For most people it's really just a battle of attrition and applying to as many as possible and hoping one sticks. The Big 5 might receive around 800 applicants for the TC and they'll take in about 30 every year. It's a very competitive process and not getting an offer doesn't mean your application is poor or that you're not good enough.

LeGal97 · 13-11-2020 12:28am

Fe1forthefun wrote: »

They will probably mostly be WFH at the moment and there are more rental places in Dublin than usual because more people have moved down the country.

They have probably received about 500 training contract applications, but they might only receive 15 or so for the legal secretary. You have much more of a chance of standing out there and inadvertently ending up with a traineeship.

If you get a legal secretary interview DM me because I have a similar role previously and can tell you what they are looking for.

You are so right. I have been keeping an eye on indeed.ie also, and there's a few legal secretary roles going in my vicinity that might be worth checking out and get me in better shape for next year if not.

That is so kind of you, I definitely will take you up on that, thanks so much!

rightytighty · 13-11-2020 3:48am

Just a word of caution on applying for legal sec roles for experience. Firms are usually looking for career legal secs with experience in billing, audio typing etc. It’s more of a functional admin role than the sort of ad hoc/legal support that’s provided by an intern/paralegal/legal assistant (interchangeable words in my view). A CV from an applicant who’s currently undertaking FE1s will tell them you’re looking to get to blackhall ASAP and likely to jump ship in the short to medium term.

I would never discourage applying but I would urge you again not to be discouraged if unsuccessful. Keep an eye out for any of the sort of roles mentioned above primarily!

T.Chunter164 · 13-11-2020 10:19am

IgoPAP wrote: »

I hope people don't become too disheartened with PFOs. For most people it's really just a battle of attrition and applying to as many as possible and hoping one sticks. The Big 5 might receive around 800 applicants for the TC and they'll take in about 30 every year. It's a very competitive process and not getting an offer doesn't mean your application is poor or that you're not good enough.

I interviewed with one of the big five last November and at the drinks reception the night before they said they received over 1,500 applications!

FE1new · 13-11-2020 10:35am

rightytighty wrote: »

Just a word of caution on applying for legal sec roles for experience. Firms are usually looking for career legal secs with experience in billing, audio typing etc. It’s more of a functional admin role than the sort of ad hoc/legal support that’s provided by an intern/paralegal/legal assistant (interchangeable words in my view). A CV from an applicant who’s currently undertaking FE1s will tell them you’re looking to get to blackhall ASAP and likely to jump ship in the short to medium term.

I would never discourage applying but I would urge you again not to be discouraged if unsuccessful. Keep an eye out for any of the sort of roles mentioned above primarily!

I agree with rightytighty here about not getting discouraged if you don't get the role. I am currently a legal secretary and can say that the work is really ad hoc, between billing, drafting documents, prepping briefs it is all legal but yeah those titles mentioned are all interchangeable. The traditional secretary job is long gone and we all seem to be more paralegal roles now.

As for seeing FE1s on your CV. It really depends where you are on your studies, for example I was in my second year of a law degree when I first applied so they knew they would have me at least 3 or 4 more years. Some of the other secretaries were starting FE1s and they had them for 2 years. This is a question though that can be answered well in cover letters or interview, as in you want to get some practice experience before continuing on to Blackwall eventually. So don't be discouraged from applying.

Also apply for junior admin positions many of these are stepping stones and you will be brought up a level in about a year if you impress. If you want any tips on interviews or anything feel free to PM me. Good luck!

caius97 · 13-11-2020 10:47am

Has anyone else interviewed with Philip Lee or has applied?

Jeremiah25 · 13-11-2020 1:26pm

Just received a PFO from DE today.

arubamuuu · 13-11-2020 6:13pm

PFO today from MHC

irishmisile · 13-11-2020 7:13pm

A&L Belfast next round offers out

FE1new · 13-11-2020 9:06pm

Just got the PFO from AC.....oh well better luck next time

IgoPAP · 13-11-2020 9:09pm

Getting kind of freaked out with the Arthur Cox group interview next week - my Internet is completely all over the place. I wish we could do it in person

IgoPAP · 13-11-2020 9:10pm

Everyone seems to have a 2.1 these days. It's the bare minimum expected at this point.

irishmisile · 14-11-2020 1:45am

FE1new wrote: »

Just got the PFO from AC.....oh well better luck next time

Same! But there’s nothing we can do about it right now I keep telling myself. Going to review my application tips and upskill in some areas, tomorrow is another day.

14-11-2020 4:38am

irishmisile wrote: »

Same! But there’s nothing we can do about it right now I keep telling myself. Going to review my application tips and upskill in some areas, tomorrow is another day.

Can I ask what you’re thinking of upskilling in? Got AC PFO too

Law Firm Milkrounds 20/21

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