Law Firm Milkrounds 20/21

ACGrad2023

Jeremiah25 wrote: »

Does anyone have any experience re interviewing with partners? What should someone expect?

Partners are people too. Just be yourself and relax. Good luck!

azee76

ACGrad2023 wrote: »

Everyone has connections. I'm not special. It's how you use your connections that matters.

Fair enough actually. Isn't that hard to make some sort of connection at the law fairs that I've attended in University. I know someone at Arthur Cox but just barely enough to have their contact information. I wouldn't feel we have the connection on the level that I'd be able to call them up and ask whether I got the traineeship. It's probably not that weird but I personally wouldn't like doing it, especially considering that I'll find out soon enough anyway.

IgoPAP

ACGrad2023 wrote: »

Everyone has connections. I'm not special. It's how you use your connections that matters.

This is patently false. Not everyone has some personal connection with a firm they're applying for. Congratulations anyways.

ACGrad2023

azee76 wrote: »

Fair enough actually. Isn't that hard to make some sort of connection at the law fairs that I've attended in University. I know someone at Arthur Cox but just barely enough to have their contact information. I wouldn't feel we have the connection on the level that I'd be able to call them up and ask whether I got the traineeship. It's probably not that weird but I personally wouldn't like doing it, especially considering that I'll find out soon enough anyway.

That's not someone you should reach out to at this point. But when you got your interview invite you could have sent an email asking how they were and asking if they had any advice for the interview. Then you could have followed up after the interview to thank them and after this they may reach out to you about the outcome.

If a connection is invested in you and your career then they will be worth more. Anyone at partner level can have an impact on hiring trainees if they want to.

ACGrad2023

IgoPAP wrote: »

This is patently false. Not everyone has some personal connection with a firm they're applying for. Congratulations anyways.

You may not have a connection in every firm but everyone can have connections in at least one firm. Even if you started college without any you have had 4 years to build them. All the big firms have internships and some even have programmes just for people from disadvantaged backgrounds. You can meet people in firms by getting involved in your college's lawsoc and flac etc. People who can be very quick to cry neopistim when they don't get an offer but they don't stop and consider how hard some people have worked.

azee76

ACGrad2023 wrote: »

That's not someone you should reach out to at this point. But when you got your interview invite you could have sent an email asking how they were and asking if they had any advice for the interview. Then you could have followed up after the interview to thank them and after this they may reach out to you about the outcome.

The more invested a connection is in in you and your career is going to be worth more. Anyone at partner level can have an impact on hiring trainees if they want to.

I actually did do that. Got great advice actually which helped me get past the group stage. Although I think my situation might be a little different. He basically told me that it's a great achievement to get called for a trainee group interview and even better that I got to the second stage, considering that I'm only in third year of my undergrad. He said I shouldn't really be disappointed if I don't get it as they tend to not give internships to second years or traineeships to third years.

azee76

ACGrad2023 wrote: »

You may not have a connection in every firm but everyone can have connections in at least one firm. Even if you started college without any you have had 4 years to build them. All the big firms have internships and some even have programmes just for people from disadvantaged backgrounds. You can meet people in firms by getting involved in your college's lawsoc and flac etc. People who can be very quick to cry neopistim when they don't get an offer but they don't stop and consider how hard some people have worked.

Can you tell me about the firms that have programmes for disadvantaged backgrounds. I haven't heard of anything of the sort but I think it'd be really useful for me. Thanks.

IgoPAP

azee76 wrote: »

Can you tell me about the firms that have programmes for disadvantaged backgrounds. I haven't heard of anything of the sort but I think it'd be really useful for me. Thanks.

Mention in your application that you're a hear/dare student. It'll help you out. Firms are always looking to improve numbers from disadvantaged backgrounds

azee76

IgoPAP wrote: »

Mention in your application that you're a hear/dare student. It'll help you out.

Oh yeah, I did milk that point for sure. Made it my USP, haha.

ACGrad2023

azee76 wrote: »

I actually did do that. Got great advice actually which helped me get past the group stage. Although I think my situation might be a little different. He basically told me that it's a great achievement to get called for a trainee group interview and even better that I got to the second stage, considering that I'm only in third year of my undergrad. He said I shouldn't really be disappointed if I don't get it as they tend to not give internships to second years or traineeships to third years.

It sounds like you're doing a great job. Some people on here could really learn a thing or two from you. Congratulations on getting so far. If you get an traineeship then reach out and thank him for his help. If you don't get a traineeship and end up doing an internship with AC then invite him for lunch while you're doing your internship.

ACGrad2023

azee76 wrote: »

Can you tell me about the firms that have programmes for disadvantaged backgrounds. I haven't heard of anything of the sort but I think it'd be really useful for me. Thanks.

I'm not disadvantaged so I don't know the exact details. If you ask your college careers service they'll probably be able to help you. The magic circle firms nearly all have diversity programmes so it's a great and easy way to get in the door if you meet their criteria.

Be proud of where you come from and definitely mention it in your application. But remember your more than a disadvantaged student so don't make it your whole personality and application.

jus_me

Has anyone heard from Hayes Solicitors or have they already interviewed

Wonderstruck

DARE isn't really "disadvantaged" in the "class" social mobility sense - you can be definitely well to do and well connected, went to a private school, have every opportunity going and yet be disabled........ disablity is a complex thing obviously!!! but HEAR =/ DARE.

If you're HEAR they're most likely gonna work it out from your points, but not necessarily (i.e. they dont know if it was a third round offer or not, or even those who got the points but was still a HEAR student).

My LC points were way below even the third round offer for my course and back when I applied to I did make interview stage with MC firms. Now I was young and blew it hahhhaa and I much prefer the area of law I am in now, but there is no way they didn't know how I got into my course. I showed them I could do it through having excellent college grades. I know other HEAR students have got their way into big firms!

I think the biggest firms, if you can walk and talk and act a certain way (and have the grades!) are much more likely to take a student from a HEAR background than a small firm.

Why?

1. More spots, so thus even if one assumes theres some level of nepotism (and I think it is more they walk the walk and talk the talk than straight nepotism) there is still loads of room.
2. They want the creme de la creme and they're not gonna risk losing them by not spending a few grand, it shows the value they place on their staff, which I can respect. They will pay for everything too, you aren't self funding anything in a MC firm. Costs add much quicker in a smaller firm - it is fairer even if you're paying in a pound of flesh of your time if you aren't getting out a big loan to train.

Also, Fieldfishers have a scheme for HEAR students or did in the past

And yes of course internships and all that are crucial, preferably paid ones. They help anyone "walk the walk". I think that is an unfortunate barrier for people, to this day I still don't talk in a posh law way

Anyways, yes I think it would be false to say there is no nepotism, I mean family firms literally exist :pac: but unless one plans to marry into a legal dynasty you gotta work with what you actually have or can reasonably get.

IgoPAP

Fair play wonderstruck! I'm from a HEAR and have had internship offers from most of the top 5. I don't know if I should put it down due to HEAR status, but I also have very good grades. Overall it might give you a leg up, but the big firms invest a lot of money into trainees, so you're going to need to prove that you're also very competent to get a position.

ACGrad2023

It'll always be easier if you have Hear/Dare and are competent. No firm in 2020 wants to have intakes that look the same and are from identical backgrounds. It doesn't look good for the firm but hear/dare candidates are limited so they'll take what they can get or so I've been told.

azee76

Has anyone here applied for and obtained a training contract in third year, or heard of someone who has? From what I've seen, everyone else at the interview was in fourth year at least.

Fe1forthefun

ACGrad2023 wrote: »

It'll always be easier if you have Hear/Dare and are competent. No firm in 2020 wants to have intakes that look the same and are from identical backgrounds. It doesn't look good for the firm but hear/dare candidates are limited so they'll take what they can get or so I've been told.

I am not sure if you are self aware enough to realise that you are come across as really rude. Some of the best people in my class were HEAR/DARE students and firms will definitely not recruit them just because of that.

Please also read the room ACgrad.

You clearly got word of your potential offer today, created an account and came here to gloat.

I'd like to think we are a supportive thread and that all advice can be offered in a constructive and non-derogatory way.

LeGal97

azee76 wrote: »

Can you tell me about the firms that have programmes for disadvantaged backgrounds. I haven't heard of anything of the sort but I think it'd be really useful for me. Thanks.

Same.

I am an Access student and have absolutely 0 personal connections that I can utilize. I have tried my best to make connections at law fairs and things but it never got me past a review of my application. For some of us, it takes more than that.

LeGal97

Fe1forthefun wrote: »

I am not sure if you are self aware enough to realise that you are come across as really rude. Some of the best people in my class were HEAR/DARE students and firms will definitely not recruit them just because of that.

Please also read the room ACgrad.

You clearly got word of your potential offer today, created an account and came here to gloat.

I'd like to think we are a supportive thread and that all advice can be offered in a constructive and non-derogatory way.

Absolutely 100% not true, and I am speaking as both a former HEAR student and LSI Access Student. I was told that it won't be taken into consideration when applying for firms. The whole point of it is equal opportunities and not to be treated any differently than anyone else. So why would we be looked upon any differently?

LeGal97

Wonderstruck wrote: »

DARE isn't really "disadvantaged" in the "class" social mobility sense - you can be definitely well to do and well connected, went to a private school, have every opportunity going and yet be disabled........ disablity is a complex thing obviously!!! but HEAR =/ DARE.

If you're HEAR they're most likely gonna work it out from your points, but not necessarily (i.e. they dont know if it was a third round offer or not, or even those who got the points but was still a HEAR student).

My LC points were way below even the third round offer for my course and back when I applied to I did make interview stage with MC firms. Now I was young and blew it hahhhaa and I much prefer the area of law I am in now, but there is no way they didn't know how I got into my course. I showed them I could do it through having excellent college grades. I know other HEAR students have got their way into big firms!

I think the biggest firms, if you can walk and talk and act a certain way (and have the grades!) are much more likely to take a student from a HEAR background than a small firm.

Why?

1. More spots, so thus even if one assumes theres some level of nepotism (and I think it is more they walk the walk and talk the talk than straight nepotism) there is still loads of room.
2. They want the creme de la creme and they're not gonna risk losing them by not spending a few grand, it shows the value they place on their staff, which I can respect. They will pay for everything too, you aren't self funding anything in a MC firm. Costs add much quicker in a smaller firm - it is fairer even if you're paying in a pound of flesh of your time if you aren't getting out a big loan to train.

Also, Fieldfishers have a scheme for HEAR students or did in the past

And yes of course internships and all that are crucial, preferably paid ones. They help anyone "walk the walk". I think that is an unfortunate barrier for people, to this day I still don't talk in a posh law way

Anyways, yes I think it would be false to say there is no nepotism, I mean family firms literally exist :pac: but unless one plans to marry into a legal dynasty you gotta work with what you actually have or can reasonably get.

I applied for Fieldfisher and mentioned this, but I have heard nothing yet!

Fe1forthefun

LeGal97 wrote: »

Absolutely 100% not true, and I am speaking as both a former HEAR student and LSI Access Student. I was told that it won't be taken into consideration when applying for firms. The whole point of it is equal opportunities and not to be treated any differently than anyone else. So why would we be looked upon any differently?

That is exactly what I am saying! I thought AC Grad was implying that DARE/HEAR students walk into training contracts.

ACGrad2023

Fe1forthefun wrote: »

I am not sure if you are self aware enough to realise that you are come across as really rude. Some of the best people in my class were HEAR/DARE students and firms will definitely not recruit them just because of that.

Please also read the room ACgrad.

You clearly got word of your potential offer today, created an account and came here to gloat.

I'd like to think we are a supportive thread and that all advice can be offered in a constructive and non-derogatory way.

I have followed this thread for a number of months. I created an account today to let people know that AC had made their decisions and offers would be out soon. If I wanted to gloat I'd have posted about offers I've gotten from other firms which I didn't work for.

ACGrad2023

azee76 wrote: »

Has anyone here applied for and obtained a training contract in third year, or heard of someone who has? From what I've seen, everyone else at the interview was in fourth year at least.

I've heard of this happening but it's very rare. I don't know anyone who it's happened to personally. People who do internships can get offers in their second year of university. If you got to the individual interview then they are interested in you.

lamacg95

Has anyone with a BW second round interview tomorrow received their interview details yet?

azee76

Can third years apply to the Matheson Trainee Programme? I tried to get through to their graduate recruiter but had no luck.

ACGrad2023

LeGal97 wrote: »

Same.

I am an Access student and have absolutely 0 personal connections that I can utilize. I have tried my best to make connections at law fairs and things but it never got me past a review of my application. For some of us, it takes more than that.

If you can't get past the application review stage then there's something wrong with your application. Either your LC points aren't high enough or your college grades aren't competitive or there's something wrong with your experience etc. Get someone to review your CV and cover letter and see if they notice anything. A 1.1 law degree will get you interviews with most the top firms without any experience or connections.

LeGal97

ACGrad2023 wrote: »

If you can't get past the application review stage then there's something wrong with your application. Either your LC points aren't high enough or your college grades aren't competitive or there's something wrong with your experience etc. Get someone to review your CV and cover letter and see if they notice anything. A 1.1 law degree will get you interviews with most the top firms without any experience or connections.

As I have said on this thread before, I got a 2.1 and 500 points, and I have been told by two recruiters that this ticks the main boxes. I am well aware of what is required and what is needed for interview. I was also a HEAR student. My applications have been reviewed before every submission by a friend with a TC.

My point is for some people it takes a bit of extra effort. I am actively gaining relevant experience to make up for weaker areas and ultimately, I will get a TC.

Thanks for dumbing it down for me anyway. After four years of a law degree, I think I would know the story.

IgoPAP

azee76 wrote: »

Can third years apply to the Matheson Trainee Programme? I tried to get through to their graduate recruiter but had no luck.

I would apply for the intern programme if I were you - on account of you being in 3rd year. And just to be clear - the fact that you're getting to second round interviews already means you have a strong application and it's only a matter of time.

the baby bull elephant

jus_me wrote: »

Has anyone heard from Hayes Solicitors or have they already interviewed

Interviews are early next week. Only heard today.

IgoPAP

ACGrad 2023 - by soon, do you mean in the next couple days? I was told we could be left waiting for another week.

azee76

I really hope soon means on Friday the latest. That's what I was told. Been waiting a week.

Beatriz2020

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

Interviews are early next week. Only heard today.

Congrats! Did they call or email?

ACGrad2023

IgoPAP wrote: »

ACGrad 2023 - by soon, do you mean in the next couple days? I was told we could be left waiting for another week.

The partner I was talking to didn't know the exact date and I wasn't too pushed. I'm sure if you send an email to HR or give them a call they'll be able to tell you.

jus_me

Beatriz2020 wrote: »

Congrats! Did they call or email?

They emailed

Liordi

I just want to say that it's really naive and actually quite insensitive to assume that if a HEAR/DARE student is merely competent they will walk straight into a law firm. I know of several HEAR (and of course non-HEAR) students that have really high points, are averaging firsts in final year, and are still not getting offered training contracts (or even interviews) due to lack of legal experience.

LegalEagle2023

LeGal97 wrote: »

Same.

I am an Access student and have absolutely 0 personal connections that I can utilize. I have tried my best to make connections at law fairs and things but it never got me past a review of my application. For some of us, it takes more than that.

I was the same till I joined the diversity in law group; It’s a really nice community led by trainees who set us up with workshops, events specifically for us and help with applications etc. Reach out by pm if you want any advice, I’m more than happy to help!

I am also a HEAR student and just got a TC offer from a top 5 firm. One piece of advice for applications is that don’t use your disadvantage as an excuse, use it as a strength. We are unique and still desirable irrespective of where we come from or lack of connections within the industry.

LeGal97

LegalEagle2023 wrote: »

I was the same till I joined the diversity in law group; It’s a really nice community led by trainees who set us up with workshops, events specifically for us and help with applications etc. Reach out by pm if you want any advice, I’m more than happy to help!

I am also a HEAR student and just got a TC offer from a top 5 firm. One piece of advice for applications is that don’t use your disadvantage as an excuse, use it as a strength. We are unique and still desirable irrespective of where we come from or lack of connections within the industry.

Thank you for sharing this with me, it definitely makes me feel hopeful! Is this a group that you joined when in Blackhall or is it accessible to anyone?


Thank you, I will take this on board for future applications. I have always tried to view it like that.

ACGrad2023

Liordi wrote: »

I just want to say that it's really naive and actually quite insensitive to assume that if a HEAR/DARE student is merely competent they will walk straight into a law firm. I know of several HEAR (and of course non-HEAR) students that have really high points, are averaging firsts in final year, and are still not getting offered training contracts (or even interviews) due to lack of legal experience.

I'll probably get attacked for this but my experience in college is that anyone with a 1.1 and good LC points will get interviews from top firms without legal experience. People have had 4 years to get legal experience and don't have an excuse for not having it but it's not a requirement to get a traineeship.

IgoPAP

ACGrad2023 wrote: »

I'll probably get attacked for this but my experience in college is that anyone with a 1.1 and good LC points will get interviews from top firms without legal experience. People have had 4 years to get legal experience and don't have an excuse for not having it but it's not a requirement to get a traineeship.

If you're a college student obviously the firms don't expect legal experience. I think that's common sense. They're looking for extra-curriculars/academics. But I disagree in the sense that having internship under your belt as an undergrad is very helpful

LeGal97

ACGrad2023 wrote: »

I'll probably get attacked for this but my experience in college is that anyone with a 1.1 and good LC points will get interviews from top firms without legal experience. People have had 4 years to get legal experience and don't have an excuse for not having it but it's not a requirement to get a traineeship.

I did an internship in the past. I know more than a few people who did legal placement and did get not a TC from it, although the majority did.

Its hard to get relevant experience when you are balancing your degree and working a part-time job to fund your studies. Unpaid experience is just not an option sometimes.

Fe1forthefun

ACGrad2023 wrote: »

I'll probably get attacked for this but my experience in college is that anyone with a 1.1 and good LC points will get interviews from top firms without legal experience. People have had 4 years to get legal experience and don't have an excuse for not having it but it's not a requirement to get a traineeship.

I think most of us here have graduated/ are graduating so this advice is not really relevant.

People have very different college experiences and I don't think that should preclude them from qualifying as a solicitor.

azee76

FFS, I got two scam calls from Mali this morning. Thought it was Arthur Cox both times, haha.

caius97

Just got called for interview with Hayes on 1st December!

IgoPAP

caius97 wrote: »

Just got called for interview with Hayes on 1st December!

Congrats!

IgoPAP

azee76 wrote: »

FFS, I got two scam calls from Mali this morning. Thought it was Arthur Cox both times, haha.

You can't be serious. I got a scam call this morning and the country code was Malian too XD

azee76

IgoPAP wrote: »

You can't be serious. I got a scam call this morning and the country code was Malian too XD

And it had to be at a time when we're actually expecting an important call. XD

caius97

IgoPAP wrote: »

Congrats!

Thank you! If anyone has had any experience interviewing with them pls give me some tips 🙈

AA247

ACGrad2023 wrote: »

I have followed this thread for a number of months. I created an account today to let people know that AC had made their decisions and offers would be out soon. If I wanted to gloat I'd have posted about offers I've gotten from other firms which I didn't work for.

I wasn’t sure which of your posts to comment under but I have to say you are incredibly arrogant and it’s quite rich you giving application and career advice to people when you openly said you were being “looked after”. Arthur Cox will be lucky to have you haha.

azee76

I just got a call from AC and got the TC!!!

IgoPAP

azee76 wrote: »

I just got a call from AC and got the TC!!!

Congrats my man!