This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

Calahonda52 · 19-02-2017 11:29am

kceire wrote: »

Peoples opinion on this car?

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/14621302
NISSAN LEAF 6.6 kw Tekna

Guys, how do you arm yourself for an EV purchase, especially a private sale.
I don't. We'd a talk on buying cars as I've bought and sold more cars than I've had hot dinners, but never an EV

This one jusmped put at me considering 6.6 version, price, 3 charge cables included, I assume it's the home charger (32 amp) then the granny and public cables?

Thanks.

My guess wall charger is untethered.
High mileage, at 47km, half way into the 100k km warranty.
No mention of maintained service record which will invalidate the warranty

Gumbo · 19-02-2017 12:36pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

My guess wall charger is untethered.
High mileage, at 47km, half way into the 100k km warranty.
No mention of maintained service record which will invalidate the warranty

Wall charger - he is passing on the new unit that will come with his 30kw car.
I would have thought 47k km was Louise mileage for a 4 year old car, but my 02 jeep has 220k I'm on her and I only do about 10k km per year.

He said over the phone that all the Nissan service etc were done so I'm hoping it's just an oversight on the ad.

I'm in 2 minds tbh, I'd have to move quick for this particular one as he's buying another and has been offered a trade in price.

Calahonda52 · 19-02-2017 12:44pm

kceire wrote: »

1: Wall charger - he is passing on the new unit that will come with his 30kw car.
2: I would have thought 47k km was Louise mileage for a 4 year old car, but my 02 jeep has 220k I'm on her and I only do about 10k km per year.

3: He said over the phone that all the Nissan service etc were done so I'm hoping it's just an oversight on the ad.

I'm in 2 minds tbh, I'd have to move quick for this particular one as he's buying another and has been offered a trade in price.

1: don't follow: if he is buying new the free install is a 16kW wall charger.
My point was you said 3 cables, I was wondering if the charger was untethered, if so two cables only
2:low on an ice but the Nissan W is 8 years 100,000 km

3: Caveat emptor:D

Good luck.

Gumbo · 19-02-2017 1:22pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

1: don't follow: if he is buying new the free install is a 16kW wall charger.
My point was you said 3 cables, I was wondering if the charger was untethered, if so two cables only
2:low on an ice but the Nissan W is 8 years 100,000 km

3: Caveat emptor:D

Good luck.

1. Agree. Ad says 3 cables but there's a bit of wriggle room there if you don't take the wall mount from him. For buying purposes, assume the 2 I suppose. I have a bit of reading up to do on this whole tethered/untethered business

2. Fair point. But I believe Nissan will not entertain a battery claim unless the battery bars drop to 8 within the warranty period?

3. Deffo. I've bought enough and sold enough over the years so well clued up on this end of the market

Calahonda52 · 19-02-2017 1:28pm

kceire wrote: »

1. Agree. Ad says 3 cables but there's a bit of wriggle room there if you don't take the wall mount from him. For buying purposes, assume the 2 I suppose. I have a bit of reading up to do on this whole tethered/untethered business

2. Fair point. But I believe Nissan will not entertain a battery claim unless the battery bars drop to 8 within the warranty period?

3. Deffo. I've bought enough and sold enough over the years so well clued up on this end of the market

1: 32 A charger, cable for public charger and granny cable...= 2 IMO
https://evonestop.co.uk/customise-your-product/
for T vs Un-T

2: don't know but would not like to start half way there:D

3: self-bought my last car in '83...:)

Calahonda52 · 19-02-2017 1:48pm

Am waiting for dealer to call me back but the battery lease was buried in the small print, only spotted it now.

Thanks

slave1 · 19-02-2017 1:53pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Am waiting for dealer to call me back but the battery lease was buried in the small print, only spotted it now.

Thanks

That be a no-no, simple answer, sure more knoweldgable to follow, why would the lease company let you take the car out of the country.
No no no

Calahonda52 · 19-02-2017 1:59pm

slave1 wrote: »

That be a no-no, simple answer, sure more knoweldgable to follow, why would the lease company let you take the car out of the country.
No no no

Thanks
Its a cash sale for the car with battery lease so just asking:D

Gumbo · 19-02-2017 4:28pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

1: 32 A charger, cable for public charger and granny cable...= 2 IMO
https://evonestop.co.uk/customise-your-product/
for T vs Un-T

2: don't know but would not like to start half way there:D

3: self-bought my last car in '83...:)

I'll research the cables. The home charger will be no use to me until I do my build from the other forum

anyway so I can get a 32A I still are then.

This car currently has a full 12 bars as seen in one of the pics and being a 24kw version I assume a 5 year warranty so that's up next year anyway.

Gumbo · 19-02-2017 4:29pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Am waiting for dealer to call me back but the battery lease was buried in the small print, only spotted it now.

Thanks

Watched a U.K. you tube video warning people not to buy any car with battery on flex as it's £80 per month for life!

isnottheword · 19-02-2017 6:25pm

kceire wrote: »

Watched a U.K. you tube video warning people not to buy any car with. Artery on flex as it's £80 per month for life!

There was a certain sense to battery rental a couple of years back - when the integrity/durability of EV batteries was in doubt. However, now that we have determined a certain level of confidence in battery tech, rental is a very bad model and should be done away with.

There are Fluence's selling for next to nothing because of Renaults stubbornness in terms of rental. Battery rental makes less and less sense as the car ages and it sheds value. The Fluence may not have been a success and it may have very limited range and charging ability but there are plenty out there that it would suit - but only with outright purchase.

I use this as an example - as this will become an issue with all battery rental cars as they age - be that the Zoe or the Leaf, etc. Surely they have to draw a halt to it at some stage?

20-02-2017 1:36pm

Just note about the battery warranty. 100k is plenty on the Leaf 1.5 as the only way the battery on those will degrade to less than 70 percent is if there is a total loss of some cells within the pack due to a manufacturing defect and 100k is plenty of time to catch it.

It seems that if you baby the battery by charging regularly to 80 percent or by not using the car enough, the capacity will be temporarily lost but once you give it a proper long run with multiple fast (rapid) charges the batteries on 141+ reg cars will be restored back to nearly new percentage. Once you have done 5000-8000 charges (which will mean that a car with a range of 100 km per charge could have traveled up to 500000 km) some weaker battery modules may begin to appear but even in that stage (and this may not actually even happen) the capacity of the battery will still be in 80's. At thattime it will be the best to let a third party company to identify and replace the weak modules and restore the capacity back to the 90's.

So in case of the white leaf in question the remaining 53k/2 years will be plenty of time to discover a manufacturing error.

20-02-2017 1:43pm

kceire wrote: »

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Am waiting for dealer to call me back but the battery lease was buried in the small print, only spotted it now.

Thanks

Watched a U.K. you tube video warning people not to buy any car with battery on flex as it's £80 per month for life!

Since last year, in case of Nissan, it has been possible to buy out the rented battery for the fraction of the new battery cost. When exporting from UK this will need to be completed anyway. A typical cost seem to be around £2/3000.

20-02-2017 1:55pm

The battery capacity is never lost, the BMS sometimes doesn't know , possibly due to little usage, how much % is in the car and I think is just guessing based on total pack voltage and internal resistance which people believe is shown as HX on Leafspy.

When a full, or close to 100-0 and back to 100% ( with no end timer set to fully balance the cells ) charge is done it can get a much better idea based on the lowest and highest voltage.

It's hard to know what nissan changed for the current gen 24 Kwh battery, it's probably a combination of things,

Better cycle life, better heat resistance and the rate of current it can charge and discharge called the "C" rate these alone can have a dramatic effect on battery life. And not leaving it fully charged all day every day helps reduce stress on the battery.

Looking at the battery report from Nissan they monitor user usage such as the amount of fast charging, time spent at a high charge and the amount of times the car is charged above 80% along with aggressive driving and braking.

The more capacity the battery has will also mean a lot less stress on it so you should always go for the largest battery you can afford which will also help detach yourself from the public charging network.

I would not say the average motorist in Ireland need to worry about fast charging a 24 Kwh current Gen Leaf but I would not charge a hot battery , one that's above 7 Temp bars regularly if possible.

slave1 · 20-02-2017 2:11pm

I followed up with the garage on the £14k Acentas I mentioned in post #84, sold on Saturday, they had two for sale and both were Acenta +'s so had the 6.6kW charger.
Nice to track the prices....

Calahonda52 · 20-02-2017 2:24pm

slave1 wrote: »

I followed up with the garage on the £14k Acentas I mentioned in post #84, sold on Saturday, they had two for sale and both were Acenta +'s so had the 6.6kW charger.
Nice to track the prices....

Yep, the stuff is shifting okay, I was tracking a few also: all sold

isnottheword · 20-02-2017 6:11pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Yep, the stuff is shifting okay, I was tracking a few also: all sold

Either less ex-PCP cars being made available or demand is up - as I continue to keep an eye on Leaf sales in the UK - still nothing in the same price range as I paid back in July last year.

I wonder if there are certain periods of the year where better deals can be expected....or is it just that demand is up? I bought on the higher sterling rate - which you would expect would have resulted in subsequent purchases being more affordable - but not working out that way....

20-02-2017 10:24pm

Is a car like this http://www.usedcarsni.com/2013-Nissan-LEAF-E-80kw-Acenta-Flex-160005173 a good buy?

isnottheword · 20-02-2017 10:25pm

11214 wrote: »

Is a car like this http://www.usedcarsni.com/2013-Nissan-LEAF-E-80kw-Acenta-Flex-160005173 a good buy?

It's a Flex (Nissan speak for battery rental) - so no.

unkel · 20-02-2017 10:27pm

11214 wrote: »

Is a car like this http://www.usedcarsni.com/2013-Nissan-LEAF-E-80kw-Acenta-Flex-160005173 a good buy?

Nope. Flex means battery lease. The car would be bricked if you brought it over here!

20-02-2017 10:45pm

Thanks guys, had my first spin in an EV today, blew my mind tbh.

Gumbo · 20-02-2017 11:00pm

11214 wrote: »

Is a car like this http://www.usedcarsni.com/2013-Nissan-LEAF-E-80kw-Acenta-Flex-160005173 a good buy?

All the flex models are priced cheap like this, even across the water because of the battery rental. £80 per month iirc.

What one did you drive today?

20-02-2017 11:22pm

kceire wrote: »

All the flex models are priced cheap like this, even across the water because of the battery rental. £80 per month iirc.

What one did you drive today?

It was a fluence, I really liked it but the range is to small.
I'd really like a Leaf but I only have 11k to spend.

n97 mini · 20-02-2017 11:35pm

11214 wrote: »

It was a fluence, I really liked it but the range is to small.
I'd really like a Leaf but I only have 11k to spend.

Fluence is a disaster.

Gumbo · 20-02-2017 11:44pm

11214 wrote: »

It was a fluence, I really liked it but the range is to small.
I'd really like a Leaf but I only have 11k to spend.

n97 mini wrote: »

Fluence is a disaster.

We have 2 fluences in work.
Grand cars, but the let down is the range alright. Be lucky to 60km from a full charge from my experience.

unkel · 20-02-2017 11:49pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Fluence is a disaster.

If it hadn't got battery lease, it would be fine for a lot of people who only ever do short trips / school runs. A 2012 Fluence for about €4k would be a nice second family car.

21-02-2017 12:00am

n97 mini wrote: »

Fluence is a disaster.

Other than one trip I make a week I would have jumped on it.

unkel · 21-02-2017 12:47am

How much was the seller looking for? And you know it's something like €1,000 per year to rent the battery?

oinkely · 21-02-2017 11:19am

11214 wrote: »

It was a fluence, I really liked it but the range is to small.
I'd really like a Leaf but I only have 11k to spend.

You should be able to pick up a very tasty leaf for 11k.

Gumbo · 21-02-2017 1:38pm

just to keep you guys up to date on sales etc, I went to view a Tekna in Ken Lawford Motors yesterday, was advertised over the weekend, and it sold yesterday just after I left.

Quick turn around on the cars in my experience from looking at them.

650Ginge · 24-02-2017 5:11pm

kceire wrote: »

just to keep you guys up to date on sales etc, I went to view a Tekna in Ken Lawford Motors yesterday, was advertised over the weekend, and it sold yesterday just after I left.

Quick turn around on the cars in my experience from looking at them.

Could you tell us the price, year and mileage?

Apologies if I missed it.

Gumbo · 24-02-2017 5:25pm

650Ginge wrote: »

Could you tell us the price, year and mileage?

Apologies if I missed it.

132 SVE
Black
UK car brought in my Ken Lawford Motors
25k miles IIRC
Looked in good nick
3.3kw
Advertised for 13,450, sold for 12,500

Soarer · 24-02-2017 5:26pm

Year?

Gumbo · 24-02-2017 5:33pm

Soarer wrote: »

Year?

I thought the 132 gave it away

Starscream25 · 24-02-2017 8:11pm

A good few leafs, leaves?, just gone up on done deal, there will be an auction in the next few days if anyone is interested, will be interesting to see what they go for. I'm having no luck selling on the fiesta, can't pull the trigger until then. Feel like I'm missing out on all this cheap and clean commuting

goz83 · 24-02-2017 8:37pm

Starscream25 wrote: »

A good few leafs, leaves?, just gone up on done deal, there will be an auction in the next few days if anyone is interested, will be interesting to see what they go for. I'm having no luck selling on the fiesta, can't pull the trigger until then. Feel like I'm missing out on all this cheap and clean commuting

what auction?

isnottheword · 24-02-2017 8:41pm

goz83 wrote: »

what auction?

It looks like Wilsons from perviewing donedeal...

Starscream25 · 24-02-2017 8:42pm

goz83 wrote: »

what auction?

Wilsons auctions independent dealers.

Hoping to get a 141 acenta, but will more than likely be looking across the border, not too sure will my 11k euro get me that when the time comes

isnottheword · 24-02-2017 8:51pm

Starscream25 wrote: »

Wilsons auctions independent dealers.

Hoping to get a 141 acenta, but will more than likely be looking across the border, not too sure will my 11k euro get me that when the time comes

Set your sights further afield and across the water. You've a much bigger pool to choose from on the other island - and its cheap to bring back - cheap ryanair over and take Liverpool -Dublin back for €70 midweek. Better chance of snagging a better deal (too many people already going to NI driving prices up) and of getting the spec that you want this way (even for the whole of the UK, it's a small pool of cars you're looking at - around 300 on autotrader).

TitianGerm · 24-02-2017 8:58pm

I just stumbled on this thread and I'm intrigued.

I'm looking to change my car and have about €12000 + my car (worth between €1500-€2000 on trade) to spend.

I've being looking at the Lexus CT200H Hybrid and to be honest never even considered a fully electric vehicle.

My typical days driving would be 6-8 ten minute journeys across a busy town. On top of that I would have about a 50 km journey three evenings a week. You could also throw in a 100km round trip every other week for work.

We have a Focus diesel in the house as well so any longer journeys we could obviously use this.

What are people's thoughts?

Gumbo · 24-02-2017 9:00pm

Starscream25 wrote: »

A good few leafs, leaves?, just gone up on done deal, there will be an auction in the next few days if anyone is interested, will be interesting to see what they go for. I'm having no luck selling on the fiesta, can't pull the trigger until then. Feel like I'm missing out on all this cheap and clean commuting

Wilson's had a 141/2 SVE on Tuesday night. It sold, but I don't know what for.

isnottheword · 24-02-2017 9:05pm

emmetkenny wrote: »

What are people's thoughts?

It's more important what conclusion you come to. You are likely to get enthusiasm for the idea here - given that many of us are driving EV's. What you set out looks very do-able. However, you need to be aware of the limitations, ups n downs of going this route.

What would your motivation be? i.e. save the planet or save € ?

Are you in rented accommodation or your own property? Can a chargepoint be installed?

It's very do-able - but you need to know what you're getting into - and at what point you should opt in i.e. what price-point/vehicle, etc.

Read back through older posts in this section. If specific queries arise, then ask away.

TitianGerm · 24-02-2017 9:16pm

isnottheword wrote: »

It's more important what conclusion you come to. You are likely to get enthusiasm for the idea here - given that many of us are driving EV's. What you set out looks very do-able. However, you need to be aware of the limitations, ups n downs of going this route.

What would your motivation be? i.e. save the planet or save € ?

Are you in rented accommodation or your own property? Can a chargepoint be installed?

It's very do-able - but you need to know what you're getting into - and at what point you should opt in i.e. what price-point/vehicle, etc.

Read back through older posts in this section. If specific queries arise, then ask away.

I was looking at a diesel Passat and am just unsure I need the diesel with the amount of short stop start journeys out weighing my longer journeys. If I need to travel to Dublin etc (I'm in Wexford) we can take the Focus so the range isn't a massive deal, I do know the Leaf should be fine to make Dublin as well.

All I want is something comfortable that will be easy to run and not cause to many problems. My fear with the diesel is a massive repair bill if a DPF/ERG goes etc.

I own my own house and there are plenty of ESB charge points around my local town.

listermint · 24-02-2017 9:19pm

emmetkenny wrote: »

I was looking at a diesel Passat and am just unsure I need the diesel with the amount of short stop start journeys out weighing my longer journeys. If I need to travel to Dublin etc (I'm in Wexford) we can take the Focus so the range isn't a massive deal, I do know the Leaf should be fine to make Dublin as well.

All I want is something comfortable that will be easy to run and not cause to many problems. My fear with the diesel is a massive repair bill if a DPF/ERG goes etc.

I own my own house and there are plenty of ESB charge points around my local town.

Seems a no brainer tbh.

isnottheword · 24-02-2017 9:27pm

listermint wrote: »

Seems a no brainer tbh.

My reaction also BUT he has to know exactly what he's getting in to.

Emmet: read back through the various threads on this forum. As you read, you'll understand a bit better of what's challenging about EV driving in Ireland and what you need to be aware of going into it. Examples off the top of my head - range anxiety, infrastructure anxiety (public chargers can often be offline), reporting integrity relative to the public infrastructure (worse than a charger being faulty, ecars don't react in real time (or even delayed time!) to reports of faulty chargers.
The range that the manufacturer claims can NOT be achieved - it's not real world.
Charging points may work perfectly well - but they may be blocked by people in petrol/diesel cars parking there.

Those are some examples - there are others.

listermint · 24-02-2017 9:28pm

isnottheword wrote: »

My reaction also BUT he has to know exactly what he's getting in to.

Emmet: read back through the various threads on this forum. As you read, you'll understand a bit better of what's challenging about EV driving in Ireland and what you need to be aware of going into it. Examples off the top of my head - range anxiety, infrastructure anxiety (public chargers can often be offline), reporting integrity relative to the public infrastructure (worse than a charger being faulty, ecars don't react in real time (or even delayed time!) to reports of faulty chargers.
The range that the manufacturer claims can NOT be achieved - it's not real world.
Charging points may work perfectly well - but they may be blocked by people in petrol/diesel cars parking there.

Those are some examples - there are others.

Not being funny but I think their posts so far actually covered all that.....

isnottheword · 24-02-2017 9:31pm

listermint wrote: »

Not being funny but I think their posts so far actually covered all that.....

Not being funny either but he did start out with this;
"I just stumbled on this thread and I'm intrigued."

I know when I started shopping for an EV, I hadn't a clue until I learnt from folks here and elsewhere. These things are boring to us - but are new to him. He needs to know them in order to make an informed buying decision.

TitianGerm · 24-02-2017 9:34pm

Thanks for the info guys. I'll follow the forum and have a read of a few of the older/bigger threads. The only other thread I've read in here was the one of the review in the Irish Independent recently.

To me it just seems a decent option to consider at this stage given the amount of short journeys I'm doing.

TitianGerm · 24-02-2017 9:38pm

isnottheword wrote: »

Not being funny either but he did start out with this;
"I just stumbled on this thread and I'm intrigued."

I know when I started shopping for an EV, I hadn't a clue until I learnt from folks here and elsewhere. These things are boring to us - but are new to him. He needs to know them in order to make an informed buying decision.

To follow the bolded bit I actually spotted the thread title on the home page and I just thought that maybe an EV might suit me. It's something I hadn't considered and the closet I had got to an EV was a Lexus hybrid

(PS this is how I got addicted to Philips Hue)

KCross · 24-02-2017 9:43pm

emmetkenny wrote: »

Thanks for the info guys. I'll follow the forum and have a read of a few of the older/bigger threads. The only other thread I've read in here was the one of the review in the Irish Independent recently.

To me it just seems a decent option to consider at this stage given the amount of short journeys I'm doing.

As suggested, have a read but I'd also suggest you start a new thread with your questions otherwise you will be reading a very long time trying to find all the answers. Put your circumstances in the OP... Daily mileage, budget, type of driving, reasons for EV etc

The mod is working on some stickies which should make it easier but for now open a new thread.

This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

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