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Bad kids from good parents

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124

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    #92
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,016 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Do you think anyone would get away with beating a kid to death today? The abusers didn't cover it up. They just did it, quite openly and nothing was done about it.
    Why should criminals be safe and decent people not be safe which is what you seem to want?

    So you actually WANT to put them into environments where they're susceptible to hurt and abuse.

    Defintieyl done here now.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #93
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    The abusers didn't cover it up. They just did it, quite openly and nothing was done about it.

    Nothing was covered up? So what do you call bodies in unmarked graves?

    http://www.irishsalem.com/religious-congregations/christian-brothers/expupilsclaim-childrenkilled-14nov98.php

    Its still being covered up.

    So what you want, is what you refer to as "decent people" protected from 8/9 year olds by having them removed from their homes for "criminal propensity"?

    I wouldn't call anyone who would want to see that happen a decent person.


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    #94
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I remember being at a school reunion when I was in my 30s.
    I was talking to the principle for ages at one point.
    He said to me he could always pick the lads who were going to turn out to be scumbags.
    And he said he was always right except for once.
    I asked him what was that and he says. I though you were going to spend your life in jail.


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    #95
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Nothing was covered up? So what do you call bodies in unmarked graves?

    http://www.irishsalem.com/religious-congregations/christian-brothers/expupilsclaim-childrenkilled-14nov98.php

    Its still being covered up.

    So what you want, is what you refer to as "decent people" protected from 8/9 year olds by having them removed from their homes for "criminal propensity"?

    I wouldn't call anyone who would want to see that happen a decent person.
    The Christian Brothers were getting headage payments. If boys were going missing, it was known about. Nobody in authority was too bothered about it.


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    #96
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    I think some people just dont really know what goes on in the world today :)

    I have first-hand experience of it, and teenagers do choose who to hang around with, by 15/ 16ish this person subtly dropped some of the friends and chose to make different friends. The whole story is too long to explain.

    I know there are several factors involved but choosing who you want to hang around is a very big factor and it's not about being lead astray.


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    #97
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mariaalice wrote: »
    I have first-hand experience of it, and teenagers do choose who to hang around with, by 15/ 16ish this person subtly dropped some of the friends and chose to make different friends. The whole story is too long to explain.

    I know there are several factors involved but choosing who you want to hang around is a very big factor and it's not about being lead astray.

    You are forgetting some important words.
    'In my experience'
    'Can be'
    'Possibly/not always'
    'My experience does not mean it is the same way for all kids'


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    #98
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You are forgetting some important words.
    'In my experience'
    'Can be'
    'Possibly/not always'
    'My experience does not mean it is the same way for all kids'

    All right so it's only in one case that the teen chose who to hang around with, all the reset are passive have no agency, and were lured in by a pipe piper-type character.


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    #99
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mariaalice wrote: »
    All right so it's only in one case that the teen chose who to hang around with, all the reset are passive have no agency, and were lured in by a pipe piper-type character.


    Some kids can make choices in their best interests. There are a myriad of reasons why they can do so.

    Some kids can't make a choice in their best interests. There are a myriad of reasons why they can't do so.


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    #100
    Beatty69
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭Beatty69


    keano_afc wrote: »
    Lack of attention and role models is the problem.

    I worked with some kids from rough areas of Dublin a few years back. We took them away for a week and emphasised that for this week, they'd be the subject of our focus and our attention. We cooked for them, spent time with them and encouraged them by doing team based activities where they had to work together.

    At the start of the week, they were hard work. So much in-fighting, and unwillingness to behave. By the end of the week, they were different kids, to the point where they were upset that they had to go back to their families. All they needed was someone to focus on them and give them attention. We could hardly believe the difference.

    The problem is most of these kids are in families where they're just seen as an inconvenience. They're a product of their surroundings. I believe all kids are capable of behaving like decent individuals, but it takes work. Sadly, a lot of parents just cant be bothered.

    It's quite easy to focus on kids when that's all you have to do. Parents nowadays usually both have to work full-time just to afford the mortgage/rent.

    Of course kids benefit from 24/7 attention but in the real world that's not possible.


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    #101
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    mariaalice wrote: »
    I have first-hand experience of it, and teenagers do choose who to hang around with, by 15/ 16ish this person subtly dropped some of the friends and chose to make different friends. The whole story is too long to explain.

    I know there are several factors involved but choosing who you want to hang around is a very big factor and it's not about being lead astray.


    Would you agree that there many more kids around than that one, and that some do choose wisely and some dont?


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    #102
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    Would you agree that there many more kids around than that one, and that some do choose wisely and some dont?

    Of course, but it's not about choosing wisely teens dost see themselves like that nor do they think of being good a good kid, or bad kid, that is an adult perspective looking back. Also, there is a big difference between stupidity and actual criminal behaviour.


    How did your parents not know where you were and who your friends were when you were a teen?


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    #103
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Of course, but it's not about choosing wisely teens dost see themselves like that nor do they think of being good a good kid, or bad kid, that is an adult perspective looking back. Also, there is a big difference between stupidity and actual criminal behaviour.


    How did your parents not know where you were and who your friends were when you were a teen?


    Is that a serious question?


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    #104
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Yup, a family member would have been considered a "bad child" and I know their mother heavily got the blame for it. However, she had 3 older children. All of whom were remarkably well behaved and did remarkably well at school. The last child was extremely sick as a baby and spent most of their behaviour developmental age in hospital, going through treatment that most adults struggle with. The mother read a massive amount of books, did courses, and almost obsessively tried finding a way that worked for the child. She did, but when she tried to approach the school with it, they shut her down. They weren't interested. It was a bad child and that was that. She spent ages trying to get the school on board (because a lot of issues were coming from there) and they were having none of it. The kid was eventually moved to another school with a more open system, and it probably saved his life. If they had moved their earlier, the kid probably wouldn't even have the slight developmental delays they do now. Yet the old school, and parents of the old school, still heavily judge the mother.


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    #105
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Of course, but it's not about choosing wisely teens dost see themselves like that nor do they think of being good a good kid, or bad kid, that is an adult perspective looking back. Also, there is a big difference between stupidity and actual criminal behaviour.


    How did your parents not know where you were and who your friends were when you were a teen?

    I thought your argument was that teens can choose and therefore can choose whether to have a healthy peer group or not.


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    #106
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    Is that a serious question?

    Yes, a good portation of parenting teens is about knowing who their friends are and knowing where they are, certainly up to the age of 16 so.

    The situation I know of the teen in question was followed and found by a parent on more than one occasion now interestingly nothing was really said when they were caught being in a situation that they should not have been in, but the message was clear.


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    #107
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Yes, a good portation of parenting teens is about knowing who their friends are and knowing where they are, certainly up to the age of 16 so.

    The situation I know of the teen in question was followed and found by a parent on more than one occasion now interestingly nothing was really said when they were caught being in a situation that they should not have been in, but the message was clear.


    I think you have led a very sheltered life.
    Either that or you were never a teenager :)


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    #108
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    I think you have led a very sheltered life.
    Either that or you were never a teenager :)

    A lot of people lead sheltered lives and then become do-gooders. What abouut the poor little criminal thug going to jail? He might get a slap on his bum.


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    #109
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    I think you have led a very sheltered life.
    Either that or you were never a teenager :)

    Of course, I tried to hide things from my parents as a teen.

    The situation with the teen their father had been a debt collector in a former life so no fool, a two-pronged approach was taken one involved talking to the teen, combined with the teen been told out straight they would not get the better of the parent, the teen was told one day by the father..my will is stronger than your and you won't best me over this.

    As an adult one Christmas, they came across some of the former friends being thrown out of the pub at this stage aged mid-twenties, and the response from the now-adult teen was wasters.


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    #110
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Of course, I tried to hide things from my parents as a teen.

    The situation with the teen their father had been a debt collector in a former life so no fool, a two-pronged approach was taken one involved talking to the teen, combined with the teen been told out straight they would not get the better of the parent, the teen was told one day by the father..my will is stronger than your and you won't best me over this.

    As an adult one Christmas, they came across some of the former friends being thrown out of the pub at this stage aged mid-twenties, and the response from the now-adult teen was wasters.


    So all good for teens who have debt collector fathers who can scare them into getting in line so. :)


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    #111
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    I am also completely amazed that any adult with a child does not realise what is involved in parenting teenagers the hard work involved and there is no let-up from it either.


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    #112
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    So all good for teens who have debt collector fathers who can scare them into getting in line so. :)

    There might have been a bit of that, they have a great relationship with their father as an adult :)

    I would say they got fed up with the friends more than anything else.


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    #113
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    So all good for teens who have debt collector fathers who can scare them into getting in line so. :)

    Also read https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rorys-Story-Unexpected-Journey-Self-Belief/dp/0717189953

    and watch https://www.rte.ie/tv/programmes/1076971-raised-by-the-village/


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    #114
    Jequ0n
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    mariaalice wrote: »
    As an adult one Christmas, they came across some of the former friends being thrown out of the pub at this stage aged mid-twenties, and the response from the now-adult teen was wasters.

    Shocking behaviour. You can’t sink lower than being thrown out of a pub. Pity they didn’t use a cattle prod on them


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    #115
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Jequ0n wrote: »
    Shocking behaviour. You can’t sink lower than being thrown out of a pub. Pity they didn’t use a cattle prod on them

    I don't get that who are they?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMr2QRsW0HU


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    #116
    Jequ0n
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    mariaalice wrote: »
    I don't get that who are they?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMr2QRsW0HU

    Welcome to my world, I never understand what you are talking about.


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    #117
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    hezarkani wrote: »

    What about good parents who still have kids that end up like ****s? Have you ever heard of a story like that?
    Yep. And i am not talking about over parenting or over controlling etc trying to raise the perfect child.

    1. You can't control your child's environment and what other influences or traumas they are exposed to. If your kid goes to school you really don't know what goes on 5 hrs of their day. You can try to be tuned in and ask questions but you can't.

    2. It's not that 'wrong doing' is in built. But certain challenges can be such as depression, addictive personalities etc etc these can present challenges on the road to success. While they are not excuses for wrong doing. They can present reasons as to why children make bad choices.

    3. There is a HUGE different between a difficult child and a bad kid or person. A difficult child takes up time in class. Requires attention. But they don't mean to be bad. If they get that LABEL though and are misunderstood ...it can mean bad things. Many of the kids i was told were bold or bad from like 5 to 10 as a kid ..looking back ..were really just hyper.

    4. Its pessimistic to suggest there can be something fundamentally against the grain in someone from a young age. But it can be true. We don't know if its trauma (which can happen even if you have good parents) or something else. But this doesn't mean that we can't give these kids to the tools to make better decisions.

    OK so a kid attacks someone. Or worse. Or an adult does.

    Evil is making a decision to do something wrong. Its not a personality type. EVERYONE can take that decision. And everyone even the most traumatized anti social mind can make the decision to do the right thing.

    I think a lot of parents have children ...(not only bad children also) who have problems that are not related to their parenting. Maybe they were bullied at school..maybe they were abused by another family member. Maybe they were held up at gunpoint. Maybe they fell in with a wrong person.

    Or maybe ...they simply made the wrong decision ..or even a couple of wrong decisions.

    Making the decision to do something wrong is all it takes.


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    #118
    I see sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭I see sheep


    I've met a lot of 'middle class' kids whose parents are sound decent hardworking people with well paying jobs.
    A lot of these kids are insufferable snobs, and I'd say deep down the parents are embarrased by these kids.


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    #119
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    I see sheep wrote: »
    I've met a lot of 'middle class' kids whose parents are sound decent hardworking people with well paying jobs.
    A lot of these kids are insufferable snobs, and I'd say deep down the parents are embarrased by these kids.

    Being an Insufferable snob is not a criminal offence it's just stupidity.


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    #120
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Being an Insufferable snob is not a criminal offence it's just stupidity.


    And probably picked up from the people they are hanging around with.


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    #121
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    And probably picked up from the people they are hanging around with.

    True, but it's not going to hurt anyone whereas other behaviors do.


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