Bad kids from good parents

eviltwin

I come from a family where one sibling ended up in prison and the other three turned out fine. We all had the same upbringing. My parents were good in the sense we had food, were disciplined harshly, good grades were non negotiable but there was abuse and I see that as the turning point in my siblings life. The rest of us also caused harmed but only to ourselves. So you just don’t know. There is a lot more to raising a good person than people on here would have you think.

BlaktainPicard

seamus wrote: »

There are cases like that of course. There are people born with congenital neurological issues, or issues that are acquired during childhood. They've found a very strong correlation, for example, in people who've committed multiple murders and are prone to violent crime; they've often suffered some level of serious brain injury as a child.

But they're few and far between.

The kind of stuff we're seeing in Malahide, is several levels above "bad parenting", it's a complete lack of parenting at all, the kids have been lacking any form of role model or personal support since they could walk. As a result they end up latching onto eachother and developing a complete lack of empathy or consideration for the rest of society.

Fining or locking up "bad parents", as many often cite is the way forward, would have precisely fvck all effect. All you'd end up doing is turning a bad, but loving parent, into a completely absent one.

It's a social failure, and one that needs to be overhauled both by intervening at a much younger age and being more supportive rather than punitive of these kids when they first land in the criminal justice system.

What happened in Malahide ?

Anyway , I would have agreed with the notion that good parents cant possibly produce bad kids, but i did go to school with a lad that was a right knacker, now his brothers and sisters were grand and subsequently i met his parents and they were lovely people, so i don't know, you have the occasional case I guess.

I have 2 boys that are hyper, and it's tough, I do worry how they will turn out.

knucklehead6

hezarkani wrote: »

What about good parents who still have kids that end up like ****s? Have you ever heard of a story like that?

I know Boy A’s father. Really decent bloke.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

BlaktainPicard wrote: »

What happened in Malahide ?

Anyway , I would have agreed with the notion that good parents cant possibly produce bad kids, but i did go to school with a lad that was a right knacker, now his brothers and sisters were grand and subsequently i met his parents and they were lovely people, so i don't know, you have the occasional case I guess.

I have 2 boys that are hyper, and it's tough, I do worry how they will turn out.

Therein lies the inconcistency: if one of them turns out bad and the other fine, should you be considered a bad parent or the "ocassional case"?

It's the "bad parents" excuse that's lame and the result of half-assed lazy thinking.

biko

Some kids just wants to see the world burn.

eviltwin

Even really terrible parenting can produce a decent person.

fryup

Don't know about the parents but the son they had turned out to be a right Ol'Bollix

mariaalice

Also thinking it is bad parenting by any adult who is a parent is a kind of, self-protecting charm, they can blame others and think their parenting is a shield that will protect their children.

Hangdogroad

knucklehead6 wrote: »

I know Boy A’s father. Really decent bloke.

Cant say the same for Boy Bs oul fella.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/bunch-of-scumbags-father-of-boy-b-loudly-condemns-verdict-1.3929674

Jequ0n

mariaalice wrote: »

Also thinking it is bad parenting by any adult who is a parent is a kind of, self-protecting charm, they can blame others and think their parenting is a shield that will protect their children.

Sorry but what does this even mean?

McGinniesta

A neighbour of our's son was recently convicted of murder.

mariaalice

Jequ0n wrote: »

Sorry but what does this even mean?

Blaming others, it's the parent's fault is a way of saying it will never happen to them, it's often related to being a bit smug as well.

A difficult concept to explain often.

Jequ0n

mariaalice wrote: »

Blaming others, it's the parent's fault is a way of saying it will never happen to them, it's often related to being a bit smug as well.

A difficult concept to explain often.

Surely any parent can be accused of being at fault for their offspring’s misdemeanours?
I’m sure there are people here who have a more rounded view of cause and effect so I will reserve judgement. Because I’m just so nice

I have seen so many parents and siblings absolutely destroyed because of things one of the kids did.
It's not their fault, and they feel shame and guilt and it's terrible for them.

Claw Hammer

When Artane was open there was none of that kind of malarkey at the station going on. If parents couldn't mind their kids, the kids were taken to Artane. You could leave your bicycle unlocked in O Connell street and return for it and get it hours later.

My father was in Artane.

The reason he was sent there was not for any crime, but because his mother was widowed and the priest thought she had too many children. Not that she couldn't look after him.

We don't want another Artane.

Claw Hammer

Deleted User wrote: »

My father was in Artane.

The reason he was sent there was not for any crime, but because his mother was widowed and the priest thought she had too many children. Not that she couldn't look after him.

We don't want another Artane.

There is no point in taking something away if nothing is put in its place.

Claw Hammer

Claw Hammer wrote: »

There is no point in taking something away if nothing is put in its place.

A place like Artane is not the answer.

JimmyVik

When I was a teenager I hung around with some bad people.
I did beat people up and commit some crimes with them. The more you get away with it the more normal you think it is.
If I had been caught it would have probably left me to go down that road for the rest of my life.
Fortunately I never got caught.
Then you come to a point where you eother realize its not cool, or you think its still cool. Thats your turning point for where you go as an adult.
Eventually in my 20s I grew out of such behavior and stopped hanging around with people who were toxic and started hanging around with good people. I havent been in a jot of trouble since and have been a good upstanding member of society.
So what led me there? Simple. They people who I hung out with in my formative years were the people I learned to behave from.
When I was a teenager and was getting kudos for hanging out with the cool guys, I followed them. So happened where I grew up the cool guys were also bad guys and from bad families.
So years later, looking back I can see the people who didnt hang with us, or who even broke off from that crowd before I did, have all done really well for themselves.
Those who stayed in that mode are all either dead, wasters, drug addicts or criminals now.

Watch who your kids are hanging around with when you are not there when they are teenagers. If you let them in, thats who will shape your kids, not you.

PS. I have one friend now who was bullied in school. He has sent his two boys to train to fight from a young age so they could fight back.
Now, both of them at 16 and 17, it turns out are the school bullies now. Im told by someone I know close to the situation, that those twos training has made everyone afraid of them and they now realize it and are taking advantage of it and are running their own little clique of pr1cks. This person thinks these two lads are the next scumbag heavies of the area.
So they were taught to be tough, with good intesions, and it backfired.

Claw Hammer

Deleted User wrote: »

A place like Artane is not the answer.

It was better than nothing1

Claw Hammer

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It was better than nothing1

No it wasn't.

Are you aware of the scale of abuse that occurred in that place? Boys, buried in unmarked graves that were beaten to death?

My father died over 35 years ago, and he revealed a few details to us of what went on there before any of the clerical abuse scandals ever came to light.

A place like Artane should never exist again.

seamus

Claw Hammer wrote: »

When Artane was open there was none of that kind of malarkey at the station going on. If parents couldn't mind their kids, the kids were taken to Artane. You could leave your bicycle unlocked in O Connell street and return for it and get it hours later.

Rose-tinted glasses.

Bicycle theft was actually one of the most prolific crimes that Gardai dealt with in the early years of the Republic.

The whole notion that countries under conservative and more penal regimes have less crime, or had less crime in the past, is actually complete crap put forward by people who yearn for the "rare aul times".

Yes in the days of Artane, you could leave your front door unlocked. And thousands got burgled.

Phoenix32

I don't think good parents can raise bad kids. But you can be a nice person and still not be a very good parent and it can cause issues later on. These things aren't black and white. I don't think a bad childhood excuses bad behaviour in adulthood but it certainly explains it and gives us a reason why the person turned out the way that they did. Not too many people with a normal upbringing go on to murder, just saying.

mariaalice

JimmyVik wrote: »

When I was a teenager I hung around with some bad people.
I did beat people up and commit some crimes with them. The more you get away with it the more normal you think it is.
If I had been caught it would have probably left me to go down that road for the rest of my life.
Fortunately I never got caught.
Then you come to a point where you eother realize its not cool, or you think its still cool. Thats your turning point for where you go as an adult.
Eventually in my 20s I grew out of such behavior and stopped hanging around with people who were toxic and started hanging around with good people. I havent been in a jot of trouble since and have been a good upstanding member of society.
So what led me there? Simple. They people who I hung out with in my formative years were the people I learned to behave from.
When I was a teenager and was getting kudos for hanging out with the cool guys, I followed them. So happened where I grew up the cool guys were also bad guys and from bad families.
So years later, looking back I can see the people who didnt hang with us, or who even broke off from that crowd before I did, have all done really well for themselves.
Those who stayed in that mode are all either dead, wasters, drug addicts or criminals now.

Watch who your kids are hanging around with when you are not there when they are teenagers. If you let them in, thats who will shape your kids, not you.

PS. I have one friend now who was bullied in school. He has sent his two boys to train to fight from a young age so they could fight back.
Now, both of them at 16 and 17, it turns out are the school bullies now. Im told by someone I know close to the situation, that those twos training has made everyone afraid of them and they now realize it and are taking advantage of it and are running their own little clique of pr1cks. This person thinks these two lads are the next scumbag heavies of the area.
So they were taught to be tough, with good intesions, and it backfired.

You haven't mentioned your parents in all this.

Second, people choose who to hang around with why make that choice and not the other choice.

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

You haven't mentioned your parents in all this.

Second, people choose who to hang around with why make that choice and not the other choice.

I think that is a very simplistic view. The teenage years are fraught with emotional landmines and longing for acceptance. It is a period of our lives where fitting in is paramount.

Jequ0n

mariaalice wrote: »

You haven't mentioned your parents in all this.

Second, people choose who to hang around with why make that choice and not the other choice.

Why make the choice not to chose punctuation?

mariaalice

Deleted User wrote: »

I think that is a very simplistic view. The teenage years are fraught with emotional landmines and longing for acceptance. It is a period of our lives where fitting in is paramount.

Yes of course, but fitting in can mean joining the scouts or being involved in sport or music or any number of avenues.

There is a difference between doing stupid things as a teenager which we all did versus doing criminal things as a teenager.

mariaalice

Jequ0n wrote: »

Why make the choice not to chose punctuation?

So your point is to make a point about grammar?

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

Yes of course, but fitting in can mean joining the scouts or being involved in sport or music or any number of avenues.

There is a difference between doing stupid things as a teenager which we all did versus doing criminal things as a teenager.

Joining the scouts? You think a kid who lives in chaos and wants to belong yet doesn't have many options for healthy peer groups can join the scouts?

Or a kid who does have those options but doesn't feel like they do. They look up to the local hard boys and feel a sense of acceptance from them that they don't receive at home.

Or a kid who is too damned scared to walk away.

Jequ0n

mariaalice wrote: »

Yes of course, but fitting in can mean joining the scouts or being involved in sport or music or any number of avenues.

There is a difference between doing stupid things as a teenager which we all did versus doing criminal things as a teenager.

Because it’s more fun, more thrilling and gives you more peer admiration even if you don’t like it.

Regarding your question: yes please break up your sentences with punctuation, they are at times difficult to read