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Seen & Found

1…1415171920

Comments

  • #802
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Wow P, you have a real winner there. :) The bulb of percussion couldn't be any more obvious if it tried. And the general forming and the retouch too. It could nearly be a Mousterian point. What are its dimensions P?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • #803
    pueblo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 728 ✭✭✭pueblo


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Wow P, you have a real winner there. :) The bulb of percussion couldn't be any more obvious if it tried. And the general forming and the retouch too. It could nearly be a Mousterian point. What are its dimensions P?

    Thanks Wibbs.

    It's 56mm long x 27mm wide.

    Regarding the material I am not sure it's flint, I know it's hard to tell from a poor quality photo, but could it be something else?

    It is a very fine grained material of a predominately grey colour with a brown tinge.

    Interestingly I have been reading 'New materials, traditional practices: a Mesolithic silicified dolomite toolkit from Lough Allen, Ireland' by Killian Driscoll and the material seems very close to his description of Silicified Dolomite which can look very different depending on weathering etc.

    If not Mousterian could it be Clactonian??

    Another couple of slightly better photos..


  • #804
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Defo not Clactonian :D Lovely piece though. Looks water rolled to me? I'd hazard a guess at neolithic?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • #805
    pueblo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 728 ✭✭✭pueblo


    Another one, this is a beautiful wine/oxblood coloured fine grained flint like material.

    Could it be red jasper? is it a core?

    Thanks


  • #806
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    pueblo wrote: »
    Another one, this is a beautiful wine/oxblood coloured fine grained flint like material.

    Could it be red jasper? is it a core?

    Thanks
    Definitely not a core and unlikely to be cultural. Could be jasper though.


  • #807
    Ms2011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Ms2011


    Any idea if this is a reproduction?
    Found in the shed of our new (200 year old) house.

    Granite Head .jpg


  • #808
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    That's very cool, whatever it is, or whatever age it is.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • #809
    Ms2011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Ms2011


    I've had age guesses of 20 years old to 1000 years old.
    I'm skeptical that they are as old as 1000 years old and just happened to be lying in a random shed but I am curious as to their origins.
    They have been keeping my plants company in my rockery but if they are something important I might need to take better care of them!!


  • #810
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 77,020 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    Could it be another "Genuine Modì"? :p


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  • #811
    Ms2011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Ms2011


    New Home wrote: »
    Could it be another "Genuine Modì"? :p


    I wouldn't be surprised, these things are so often copied!!!


  • #812
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    Ms2011 wrote: »
    Any idea if this is a reproduction?
    Found in the shed of our new (200 year old) house.

    Granite Head .jpg

    Definitely not a thousand years old but beautifully carved and it should be put somewhere safe for now. I would be inclined to run it by the National Museum and follow their recommendations for further action.


  • #813
    Ms2011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Ms2011


    slowburner wrote: »
    Ms2011 wrote: »
    Any idea if this is a reproduction?
    Found in the shed of our new (200 year old) house.

    Granite Head .jpg

    Definitely not a thousand years old but beautifully carved and it should be put somewhere safe for now. I would be inclined to run it by the National Museum and follow their recommendations for further action.

    I have emailed them along with a local museum but I won't hold my breath waiting for them to get back to me, they're not known for their speed in that regard!!!


  • #814
    Ms2011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Ms2011


    Some have said the head might be the face of Crom Dubh stolen from a wall on 1993, anyone know much about this??


  • #815
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    Ms2011 wrote: »
    Some have said the head might be the face of Crom Dubh stolen from a wall on 1993, anyone know much about this??
    It ain’t that either!


  • #816
    Ms2011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Ms2011


    slowburner wrote: »
    Ms2011 wrote: »
    Some have said the head might be the face of Crom Dubh stolen from a wall on 1993, anyone know much about this??
    It ain’t that either!

    Well at least I don't have stolen property!!


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  • #817
    Esel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,498 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Saw a lovely one of these on sale in the Fairyhouse market for €50 about 20 years ago from a traveller's stall. It looked genuine.

    Not your ornery onager



  • #818
    Dr Strange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    Looks a bit like the head in this article. Note: they only used the image as a general one to show the head of NMI with an exhibit. Nothing in my he article about the exhibit itself.

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/laundry-legacy-artistic-response-to-magdalenes-37939894.html


  • #819
    Ms2011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Ms2011


    County museum has been out to inspect the heads. They seemed interested in them, took pics, measurments etc.
    I think the next step is for them to get in touch with the National Museum to see if they want to inspect them.


  • #820
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 77,020 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    Cool! :)


  • #821
    Kamili
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭Kamili


    Ms2011 wrote: »
    County museum has been out to inspect the heads. They seemed interested in them, took pics, measurments etc.
    I think the next step is for them to get in touch with the National Museum to see if they want to inspect them.

    oh brill, keep us updated thats really interesting. Fair play to you!


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  • #822
    Ms2011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Ms2011


    Kamili wrote: »
    Ms2011 wrote: »
    County museum has been out to inspect the heads. They seemed interested in them, took pics, measurments etc.
    I think the next step is for them to get in touch with the National Museum to see if they want to inspect them.

    oh brill, keep us updated thats really interesting. Fair play to you!

    The National Museum have sent me out a ‘report a discovery form’ which I posted back today.
    They will want to do a site visit but I'm not sure when.


  • #823
    Kamili
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭Kamili


    The very best of luck! :)


  • #824
    Joeseph Balls
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,710 ✭✭✭Joeseph Balls


    Ms2011 wrote: »
    The National Museum have sent me out a ‘report a discovery form’ which I posted back today.
    They will want to do a site visit but I'm not sure when.

    Very similar to a carving of a monks head on the side of a monastery founded by colmcille here.
    Not sure how old the one here is but I'll try get a pic and date.


  • #825
    Ardrageen
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭Ardrageen


    2cr7vgz.jpg

    Any thoughts on what this might be? It is the size of a 10 cent coin and weighs about 4.5 grams.


  • #826
    The Enbalmer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭The Enbalmer


    Ardrageen wrote: »
    2cr7vgz.jpg

    Any thoughts on what this might be? It is the size of a 10 cent coin and weighs about 4.5 grams.




    Looks like a spindle whorl.


  • #827
    Ardrageen
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭Ardrageen


    Thank you very much.


  • #828
    mocmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 135 ✭✭mocmo


    A spindle whorl would have a hole all the way through it, but it could be an unfinished example. Any more photos showing different views? I'd also post in the geology forum, it might be part of a fossil.


  • #829
    The Enbalmer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭The Enbalmer


    mocmo wrote:
    A spindle whorl would have a hole all the way through it, but it could be an unfinished example. Any more photos showing different views? I'd also post in the geology forum, it might be part of a fossil.


    Looks like the centre bit is full of some sort of concretion.. that'd be one hell of a fossil!


  • #830
    mocmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 135 ✭✭mocmo


    Well I'm no geologist but the partial band of parallel lines around the hollow remind me of shell fossils (ammonite?) and natural forms often do a great job of looking man made. More photos of the opposite side and profile would be useful.


  • #831
    mocmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 135 ✭✭mocmo


    The Enbalmer wrote: »
    Looks like the centre bit is full of some sort of concretion.. that'd be one hell of a fossil!

    Sorry just re reading your comment, do you mean that the centre has different material stuck in it? If so, then yes most likely a whorl. I was looking at it as all being the same piece of stone if you get me!


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  • #832
    Ardrageen
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭Ardrageen


    Side view. I took this one under a microscope.

    8x80v5.jpg

    Underside
    eq5lxv.jpg


  • #833
    The Enbalmer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭The Enbalmer


    Ardrageen wrote: »
    Side view. I took this one under a microscope.

    8x80v5.jpg

    Underside
    eq5lxv.jpg




    Okay its not a spindle whorl!




    looks almost like the broken neck of a penny ink jar but it probably isnt so i'll back out now :)


  • #834
    mocmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 135 ✭✭mocmo


    Hmmmm, I think it might be natural, definitely worth showing the geologists.


  • #835
    Ardrageen
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭Ardrageen


    Thanks for your help. I will try the Geologists. I really thought the markings on the front must be man made but nature is funny.

    I do find fossils on a daily basis here in the bedrock but this was in the soil so I was unsure.


  • #836
    Patty Hearst
    Closed Accounts Posts: 290 ✭✭Patty Hearst


    Hi guys

    Long shot but wondering if this was anything, like an axe head or something?

    I've no experience in archaeology but thought it looked like a tool.

    Found it at the edge of a rocky beach so obviously its probably one of the million other sea worn rocks on the beach!

    The area is rich in neolithic sites and middens etc

    Where I found it, it seemed like someone else had been inspecting it and discarded it.

    Screen-Shot-2019-04-30-at-17-48-52.png

    IMG-20190430-173524.jpg

    IMG-20190430-173458.jpg


  • #837
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    Patty Hearst wrote: »
    Hi guys

    Long shot but wondering if this was anything, like an axe head or something?

    I've no experience in archaeology but thought it looked like a tool.

    Found it at the edge of a rocky beach so obviously its probably one of the million other sea worn rocks on the beach!

    The area is rich in neolithic sites and middens etc

    Where I found it, it seemed like someone else had been inspecting it and discarded it.

    Screen-Shot-2019-04-30-at-17-48-52.png

    IMG-20190430-173524.jpg

    IMG-20190430-173458.jpg

    This is a real head scratcher!
    It could just be a rolled beach cobble that happens to be the same shape as a polished stone adze. An axe is shaped on both the upper and lower sides of the cutting edge. This appears to be (possibly) shaped on just one side which would make it an adze. The overall shape is close to being right but the sides don’t seem quite right to my eye. If it was an unfinished adze or axe rough-out, knapping scars would be expected and they are not evident. The petrology looks not quite right either but that might not be a decisive factor.
    The overall size is more or less right for a stone adze.
    Typically, axes and adzes are highest in the centre and rounded down to the sides. This is not visible in the photos. It might be present but it’s not possible to judge.
    A photo end on to the possible cutting edge would show this. If you put it on a flat surface, can you rock it from side to side?


  • #838
    Meteorite58
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 12,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    Hi guys found this along high water mark yesterday on a sheltered spot along the Shannon near Killimer. It was close to where a bit of erosion was taking place from the land bank. Was picking stones with the young fella for skimming when I spotted it. Different shape and type stone to the usual on the shore and feels heavier than its size. Anyway wondering if ye think that it might be an axe head or just natural ?

    Approx 14cm in length
    8.5cm at widest point
    3cm in depth

    Indentation on underside.

    87cMR8s.jpg?1

    L3O482Y.jpg?1

    L2sV2TN.jpg


    SRaadDq.jpg

    cIxtUrN.jpg

    2l31GfB.jpg


  • #839
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    Meteorite58 wrote: »
    Hi guys found this along high water mark yesterday on a sheltered spot along the Shannon near Killimer. It was close to where a bit of erosion was taking place from the land bank. Was picking stones with the young fella for skimming when I spotted it. Different shape and type stone to the usual on the shore and feels heavier than its size. Anyway wondering if ye think that it might be an axe head or just natural ?

    Approx 14cm in length
    8.5cm at widest point
    3cm in depth

    Indentation on underside.
    Most likely a natural water-rolled cobble. The concave surface on the 'underside' is the key diagnostic feature. Polished stone axes should have an equal amount of curvature on both long surfaces, or a flat underside in the case of an adze. The blunt, square-across 'butt' supports this opinion.
    That said, it looks as though it could possibly have been in contact with high temperatures at some time. There is a reddish tinge that could be a result of brief contact with fire. Were there other red tinged stones in that area?
    It's not inconceivable that this cobble was picked up at random and used as an coarse stone tool, but without modification. If there are other stones near where this was found that exhibit fire reddening, then there is a greater chance that it is an arbitrary coarse stone tool. Context is everything!
    Great photos btw


  • #840
    Meteorite58
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 12,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    Thanks slowburner.

    Had a brief look around when I was there and couldn't see any more stone of the same colour or texture, mostly limestone on the shore. Not from the area but on my next visit I will take a closer look.


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  • #841
    HoteiMarkii
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭HoteiMarkii


    I spotted this enclosure on satellite imagery recently:

    46872024025_aa70697558_c.jpg

    46872035175_041500a027_c.jpg

    It doesn't appear on the National Monuments Service SMR database. Measuring approximately 50 metres in diameter, it sits on undulating tillage near Knavinstown, in south Kildare. There may be another large circular enclosure approximately 100 metres southwest of this enclosure (you can just about see it in the bottom right hand corner of the second image above). There are other smaller circular features dotted around this area too. I've sent a Monuments Report Form to the NMS.

    Intriguingly enough, there may be some association with this newly discovered enclosure and the Hill of Uisneach. The red line in the first image above is aligned to the Hill of Uisneach and marks the direction of the summer solstice sunset.

    I discovered a previously unrecorded enclosure not far from this one last year. KD022-122 lies one kilometre east of the above enclosure, and it's an enclosure I observed the Summer solstice sunset from last year. See post #175 here:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057041465&page=12


  • #842
    Meteorite58
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 12,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    So I was out at Ballyheigue Beach, Co Kerry yesterday morning at low tide and immediately noticed the large eroded area in front of the car park ( maybe a third of an acre or there about ). Had known that bog has been seen here before when winter storms shifted the sands.
    Quite a large area of bog with numerous tree stumps and lying embedded wooden debris can be seen scattered about.Could even see what looked like seeds or kernals. Also most notable is what appears to be areas cut out of the bog. A lot of these are neat rectangular shapes and saw what looks like the marks left by a slean at the edge of one bank, this looks later but could still be quite old. Also had the impression that there is track marks on the bog surface , like that left by a cart of some sort. Also seen what looks like horseshoe prints. To the right of this area was what again looked like recently exposed track of laid stone although this might be a natural deposit of stone. The stone itself seemed to be more jagged than what you normally find on a beach and more closely compacted ie not rolled by the wave action and would presume has not had much interaction with the seawater.
    Been searching on line but cant find any mention or pictures of this area. Have found reports of ' drowned forests been uncovered in Galway in 2014 / 2017 etc . Have seen dates for these from 4000 to 7500 years old.
    Would appreciate any thoughts or being pointed towards where to find any information on this area or if it is worth reporting further to service like national monuments etc.

    Ballyheigue Beach

    https://goo.gl/maps/AM2CHzEGFu6cUgoF8

    i2uOkbX.jpg?2

    AX2Ng5G.jpg?1

    vV8xfnl.jpg?1

    RLnCcFM.jpg?1

    TIADu0u.jpg?1

    si5JTKK.jpg?1

    mKmV77d.jpg?1


  • #843
    Meteorite58
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 12,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    More shots

    PSSvffX.jpg?1

    ZO5zBmJ.jpg?1

    Stone feature possibly just naturally occurring.

    6VMoKPo.jpg?1

    LxsZ4wp.jpg?1

    Hoof prints


    wXVNJpf.jpg?1

    GqP8VGj.jpg?1


  • #844
    Meteorite58
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 12,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    more shot of Ballyheigue exposed bog area.

    HdI8ffn.jpg?1

    5kTAYFA.jpg?1

    30nZSiR.jpg?1

    G4Em54G.jpg?1

    WiMGyhe.jpg?2

    F6XZ2Oc.jpg?1

    hs8jAgz.jpg?1


  • #845
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    Great photos.
    The shod hoof prints look modern. I’m open to correction on this. That could be any time post 1700, or thereabouts.
    The tracks are a little narrow and close together for a wheeled cart. It’s likely that they are tracks from a slipe or slide cart. These were simple horse-drawn carts with two struts that dragged along the ground rather than wheels.
    They sound inefficient but they were ideal in wetland or in rough slopes and could be repaired easily with simple materials.
    This type of cart was in use right up to the 20th C for turf and stone extraction in mountainous areas.
    The evidence here might not be especially old but it is a fascinating glimpse into work practices frozen in time.
    Thanks


  • #846
    Thargor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    TIADu0u.jpg?1

    That looks like a piece of art, someone will steal it.


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  • #847
    Henwin
    Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭Henwin


    I'm from ballyheigue and I find this fascinating, so there would have been farmland in this area long ago , I haven't heard anything about this l locally


  • #848
    downwiththatsor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 915 ✭✭✭downwiththatsor


    Meteorite58 wrote: »
    So I was out at Ballyheigue Beach, Co Kerry yesterday morning at low tide and immediately noticed the large eroded area in front of the car park ( maybe a third of an acre or there about ). Had known that bog has been seen here before when winter storms shifted the sands.
    Quite a large area of bog with numerous tree stumps and lying embedded wooden debris can be seen scattered about.Could even see what looked like seeds or kernals. Also most notable is what appears to be areas cut out of the bog. A lot of these are neat rectangular shapes and saw what looks like the marks left by a slean at the edge of one bank, this looks later but could still be quite old. Also had the impression that there is track marks on the bog surface , like that left by a cart of some sort.

    A number of these ancient coastal forests have been exposed in recent years by the Atlantic storms. Great photos.
    There is peat submerged along the southern shore of the Dingle Peninsula in places also.
    Article on areas exposed in Galway -

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/storms-reveal-7-500-year-old-drowned-forest-on-north-galway-coastline-1.1715303


  • #849
    forgottenhills
    Registered Users Posts: 441 ✭✭forgottenhills


    slowburner wrote: »
    Great photos.
    The shod hoof prints look modern. I’m open to correction on this. That could be any time post 1700, or thereabouts.
    The tracks are a little narrow and close together for a wheeled cart. It’s likely that they are tracks from a slipe or slide cart. These were simple horse-drawn carts with two struts that dragged along the ground rather than wheels.
    They sound inefficient but they were ideal in wetland or in rough slopes and could be repaired easily with simple materials.
    This type of cart was in use right up to the 20th C for turf and stone extraction in mountainous areas.
    The evidence here might not be especially old but it is a fascinating glimpse into work practices frozen in time.
    Thanks

    I agree that that the bog area shown could have been worked until relatively modern times (18th or 19th century?) and just got covered by sands as seas have risen and land perhaps sunk in that area. Although it is difficult to say without a measure of how wide those tracks are, to me in one photo at least they look like the tracks made by a small lorry or even a car that sunk into soft land. Perhaps this area was previously uncovered by storms years ago and someone drove out onto it in a car or small truck for a lark? A measurement of the tracks might help.


  • #850
    Meteorite58
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 12,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    The tracks were only a few inches wide, would fit with the description given by slowburner of a slipe or slide cart. Cant get back now for a couple of weeks with the restrictions but will bring a measuring tape and meter stick for perspective , hopefully it will still be uncovered.

    Was thinking yes it could have been cut out sometime in the not so distant past after becoming exposed, hard to know how long ago but I will keep searching for any information and share with ye.


  • #851
    forgottenhills
    Registered Users Posts: 441 ✭✭forgottenhills


    Meteorite58 wrote: »
    The tracks were only a few inches wide, would fit with the description given by slowburner of a slipe or slide cart. Cant get back now for a couple of weeks with the restrictions but will bring a measuring tape and meter stick for perspective , hopefully it will still be uncovered.

    Was thinking yes it could have been cut out sometime in the not so distant past after becoming exposed, hard to know how long ago but I will keep searching for any information and share with ye.

    I was more thinking of the distance between the two tracks, whether it would match the distance between the wheels on a car axle for cars in the 1960s or 70's. Cars at that time had very narrow tyres compared to most modern ones and cars, or trailers built on car axles, would leave a track like that in soft ground. The other thing is that there does not seem to be any track left by whatever was pulling the thing making the tracks. If is sunk that far in the bog you would expect to also see the tracks of whatever was pulling it, either a horse/donkey, people power or tractor. Since there doesn't seem to be any other such tracks there I am suspecting a self propelled vehicle made the tracks, such as a car with narrow tyres that someone drove out on the exposed bog for a lark. Just a theory, I could be wrong!


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