Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

N2 - Ardee to Castleblayney [preferred route published; ABP in 2022]

2»

Comments

  • #52
    Mehaffey1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭Mehaffey1


    lucernarian wrote: »
    This is a very high-quality mainline route as it is. The regional roads throughout the region that connect to this route are appalling also. I don't think any of the current or projected AADT figures warrant 2+2 ANYWHERE along this stretch.

    The N33 has higher AADT values, why is it not considered for 2+2?

    Besides, from Leitrim to Louth there is basically no route that satisfactorily links all these places in between. The N53 is good now, but the section across the border is in an utter heap. West of Castleblayney the route options are hilariously bad with every single road into and out of Ballybay or Shercock being asphalted and widened dirt tracks.

    This is completely the wrong solution for the entire region and there are so many smaller and desperately needed schemes to improve journey times and safety.

    Just did Monaghan Town to Castlebar following Google Maps real time Directions and I covered single track lanes with green grass in the middle. Enjoyable drive though but would be hateful to be commuting on those roads regularly.


  • #53
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    lucernarian wrote: »
    I've raised this personally with someone in Jacobs and tbh they're just told what to do by TII or indeed the relevant roads office.

    This scheme gives the impression that there's a design office of qualified and capable people who just don't have anything else to work on and within the confines of the law, can't be redeployed to other parts of Ireland or work on other really necessary schemes.

    The department of transport are fine with not rocking the boat, but if politics (and indeed current coalition policy) was a priority, the route from Dundalk go Cavan would be a national secondary route and the outrageous sums on this N2 scheme would be instead used where it's actually needed.

    I wonder how many people reading this have actually driven on any of the shambolic regional roads in Monaghan. Probably the only regional road that's not in an utter state is the R188 and maybe the R162, both running north to south. The situation in Cavan is a little better, especially the cootehill to Cavan part, but this scheme is an example of a system that's unable to anything except "think big".

    Do you not enjoy the adventure of dodging artic's in the middle of the road between Dundalk and Cavan especially on the shercock road ?

    I think there are two main reasons for the Upgrade in that its the Main Dublin Derry road and will link to the
    A5 Derry to Aughnacloy when built. The second is there has being several fatal head on collisions over the years between Ardee and the border. In regards the N33 i think Marno in a post in the past mentioned the N33 would be dualled , I could be wrong but


  • #54
    lucernarian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    roadmaster wrote: »
    Do you not enjoy the adventure of dodging artic's in the middle of the road between Dundalk and Cavan especially on the shercock road ?

    I think there are two main reasons for the Upgrade in that its the Main Dublin Derry road and will link to the
    A5 Derry to Aughnacloy when built. The second is there has being several fatal head on collisions over the years between Ardee and the border. In regards the N33 i think Marno in a post in the past mentioned the N33 would be dualled , I could be wrong but
    The head on collisions were never linked to any road or design features, unless overtaking counts? And that is a driver behaviour/action.

    Since the Carrickmacross bypass had remedial action and removal of overtaking, safety signs etc, has there been a single fatal accident?

    Everyone in Co. Monaghan and their dog knows how bad it is to drive anywhere near Shercock or Ballybay, and nothing is being done about what is a regional problem in one of the most disadvantaged parts of Ireland. Spending even more money on an already-great national primary route "because our neighbours will eventually get something even shinier" is just a farce.

    I can kinda forgive the clontibret to border scheme as it's currently not perfect and goes through Emyvale but even that is far below the real importance of the east-west link. As for this scheme, even a euro spent on consultations for this is a waste while the dirt tracks between Leitrim, Cavan, Monaghan and Louth still exist.


  • #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lucernarian wrote: »
    The head on collisions were never linked to any road or design features, unless overtaking counts? And that is a driver behaviour/action.

    Since the Carrickmacross bypass had remedial action and removal of overtaking, safety signs etc, has there been a single fatal accident?

    Everyone in Co. Monaghan and their dog knows how bad it is to drive anywhere near Shercock or Ballybay, and nothing is being done about what is a regional problem in one of the most disadvantaged parts of Ireland. Spending even more money on an already-great national primary route "because our neighbours will eventually get something even shinier" is just a farce.

    I can kinda forgive the clontibret to border scheme as it's currently not perfect and goes through Emyvale but even that is far below the real importance of the east-west link. As for this scheme, even a euro spent on consultations for this is a waste while the dirt tracks between Leitrim, Cavan, Monaghan and Louth still exist.

    I'm inclined to agree with you tbh. I see the same with regional roads in Connacht, the infamous Glenisland Road linking Erris to Castlebar, the horrendous regional roads in North Galway etc. This road isn't needed, not the section from Ardee to Blaney anyway. If the choice comes to cancelling part of this project, this section most definitely should get the boot. Monaghan town to the border is needed purely in terms of road safety but we can't afford to be wasting money on the Ardee to Blaney section when it's not justified, needed, demanded nor expected.


  • #56
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Emerging preferred route corridor published:

    https://dsgis.jacobs.com/apps/n2monaghanlouth/a2c/A2C-BROCHURE%20AND%20INSERT%20COMBINED.pdf

    They are going with the yellow route, which follows the existing N2 along its entirity.

    Scheme is planned to be a Type 2 dual carriageway (2+2)


  • #57
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,148 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Well the corridor is so narrow that this is nearly an online upgrade. I presume it'll be like the N4 Collooney-Castlebaldwin and the new road will be right beside the old one.


  • #58
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,043 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Well the corridor is so narrow that this is nearly an online upgrade. I presume it'll be like the N4 Collooney-Castlebaldwin and the new road will be right beside the old one.

    The map on page 5 of the brochure shows the dotted blue line on the existing road apart from at Cookstown Cross and the indicative junction labelled Drumgeeny/Leeg. That suggests it is an online upgrade which is the logical solution here.


  • #59
    lucernarian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    The map on page 5 of the brochure shows the dotted blue line on the existing road apart from at Cookstown Cross and the indicative junction labelled Drumgeeny/Leeg. That suggests it is an online upgrade which is the logical solution here.
    The logical solution is to do nothing beyond similar safety upgrades similar to what the Carrickmacross bypass has now... The east west corridor is completely neglected with no realignment work done on the routes linking the large regional towns in 2 decades. This scheme is unjustifiable with the current traffic loads. Regarding safety, this isn't a situation like the Piltown bypass on the N24 (or the Slane bypass). There's no actual engineering reason given for the higher fatality rate in past years and one has to wonder, if speed is the real cause of these accidents, why would 2+2 help with that?


  • #60
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    2+2 removes the risk of head on collisions. And traffic conflicts at junctions with right turns.

    This scheme will be cheaper per km than most other 2+2 schemes and will add 31km of dual carriageway to one of the long term “prioritised” long distance routes in the country

    There is currently plans to build a dual carriageway from Derry to Clontibret. It makes no sense to have a 31km stretch of single carriageway with the rest dualled and that 31km stretch having a horrendous safety record.

    The lack of east west improvements is not relevant. If this N2 scheme doesn’t get built the money remains within TII and will go to one of the other 22 schemes this scheme is competing with for funding


  • Advertisement
  • #61
    lucernarian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    marno21 wrote: »
    2+2 removes the risk of head on collisions. And traffic conflicts at junctions with right turns.

    This scheme will be cheaper per km than most other 2+2 schemes and will add 31km of dual carriageway to one of the long term “prioritised” long distance routes in the country

    There is currently plans to build a dual carriageway from Derry to Clontibret. It makes no sense to have a 31km stretch of single carriageway with the rest dualled and that 31km stretch having a horrendous safety record.

    The lack of east west improvements is not relevant. If this N2 scheme doesn’t get built the money remains within TII and will go to one of the other 22 schemes this scheme is competing with for funding
    So, adding 31km too.... Have more yellow/green lines on a map? There's literally dozens of more important schemes than this. And unlike other schemes like the Slane bypass, there is no factor of road design here involved in the sccidents. Unless being too straight and allowing for speeding is the issue? Where's the road improvement schemes for Inishowen or the N13, with its ridiculously poor safety record? They are all in worse physical condition than the N2.

    The accidents along this stretch have drastically reduced after the safety measures implemented a few years ago. The only recent accident involved the older part north of Carrickmacross with a lot of at-grade movements. Something that could be fixed with some roundabouts and reducing overtaking opportunities on the part immediately north of CMX.

    The only reason relevancy comes into it is because the border counties have no secondary route of any kind linking them cohesively, unless driving the incredible detour of the N53/N54 is a realistic option for some?

    It's also incorrect to say the rest is dualled. The N33, which DOES have the AAHT numbers to back up a dual carriageway, with practically minimal effort, is not in the NDP. As for the rest of the N2, the safety record of parts around Ashbourne is hardly great either and there's not even a route corridor yet for the Kilmoon cross scheme.


  • #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lucernarian wrote: »
    So, adding 31km too.... Have more yellow/green lines on a map? There's literally dozens of more important schemes than this. And unlike other schemes like the Slane bypass, there is no factor of road design here involved in the sccidents. Unless being too straight and allowing for speeding is the issue? Where's the road improvement schemes for Inishowen or the N13, with its ridiculously poor safety record? They are all in worse physical condition than the N2.

    The accidents along this stretch have drastically reduced after the safety measures implemented a few years ago. The only recent accident involved the older part north of Carrickmacross with a lot of at-grade movements. Something that could be fixed with some roundabouts and reducing overtaking opportunities on the part immediately north of CMX.

    The only reason relevancy comes into it is because the border counties have no secondary route of any kind linking them cohesively, unless driving the incredible detour of the N53/N54 is a realistic option for some?

    It's also incorrect to say the rest is dualled. The N33, which DOES have the AAHT numbers to back up a dual carriageway, with practically minimal effort, is not in the NDP. As for the rest of the N2, the safety record of parts around Ashbourne is hardly great either and there's not even a route corridor yet for the Kilmoon cross scheme.

    I agree, this scheme isn't needed based on the whatiffery of a motorway/dual carriageway to Derry that's nowhere close to becoming a reality. If the money was instead dispersed to other schemes like the M20, M21, N5, N24, or indeed schemes that aren't even being considered for upgrade like the N15 Sligo to Leitrim border, I would see that as prudent and a better use of public money. This road upgrade is in no way a national or even regional priority.


  • #63
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    N2 Monaghan Louth wrote:
    6th October 2020 - Public Consultation 3 update
    The Emerging Preferred Route Public Consultation is now complete and the project team would sincerely like to thank all those who contributed and participated in meetings (online, by phone or in person) with the project team. The information we have received will be of significant benefit to the conclusion of the current phase of the project and will help inform the next design phase also. The project team are still available to be contacted by phone or email, should you have any further queries.

    Hopefully see a preferred route early next year and then onto design & planning.


  • #64
    lucernarian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Hopefully there's a proper cost-benefit analysis conducted to show the value of this project, and not based off accidents that were caused by speeding and unsafe driving.


  • #65
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Topographic survey out to tender

    https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/180956/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/publictenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE


  • #66
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Preferred route published: https://dsgis.jacobs.com/apps/n2monaghanlouth/a2c/feb2021/vol2/2a/7.%20A2C%20Preferred%20Route%20Corridor%20-%20Main%20Layout%20Plan.pdf

    Scheme will be a Type 2 dual carriageway/2+2.

    Engineering/environmental surveys/investigations: Now to Q3 2021
    Initial road design: Q2 - Q4 2021
    Consultation with landowners: Q4 2021/Q1 2022
    Finalise design/landtake/EIA and submission to ABP: Q2/Q3 2022


  • Advertisement
  • #67
    BelfastVanMan
    Registered Users Posts: 667 ✭✭✭BelfastVanMan


    marno21 wrote: »
    Preferred route published: https://dsgis.jacobs.com/apps/n2monaghanlouth/a2c/feb2021/vol2/2a/7.%20A2C%20Preferred%20Route%20Corridor%20-%20Main%20Layout%20Plan.pdf

    Scheme will be a Type 2 dual carriageway/2+2.

    Engineering/environmental surveys/investigations: Now to Q3 2021
    Initial road design: Q2 - Q4 2021
    Consultation with landowners: Q4 2021/Q1 2022
    Finalise design/landtake/EIA and submission to ABP: Q2/Q3 2022

    They have superimposed the route on a pre-2001 map, with no N33... typical.


  • #68
    KrisW1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    BelfastVanMan wrote: »
    They have superimposed the route on a pre-2001 map, with no N33... typical.

    N33 is on that map: bottom right corner; it's outside the study area, though.


  • #69
    BelfastVanMan
    Registered Users Posts: 667 ✭✭✭BelfastVanMan


    KrisW1001 wrote: »
    N33 is on that map: bottom right corner; it's outside the study area, though.

    Must've missed that..Thanks.


  • #70
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,148 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    The new route follows the existing one exactly. Must be right beside it, a la N4 Collooney-Castlebaldwin.

    The N53 will follow the new dual closely at the north end. Really should be rerouted to hook into the dualler.


  • #71
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,043 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    spacetweek wrote: »
    The new route follows the existing one exactly. Must be right beside it, a la N4 Collooney-Castlebaldwin.

    Good chunks of it will surely be built online, as 2+2 there are no restrictions which would require an alternative route.


  • Advertisement
  • #72
    KrisW1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    The existing alignment is all fairly modern wide single carriageway and includes two grade-separated junctions at either end of Carrickmacross - an offline upgrade would have been very wasteful. Hopefully this is being used as a pilot for upgrading such routes to 2+2.


  • #73
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,908 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    KrisW1001 wrote: »
    The existing alignment is all fairly modern wide single carriageway and includes two grade-separated junctions at either end of Carrickmacross - an offline upgrade would have been very wasteful. Hopefully this is being used as a pilot for upgrading such routes to 2+2.


    Most of the route was a new cut since the 1980s and so suited to upgrade.


  • #74
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Tender out for ground investigations

    https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/184320/1/0


  • #75
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Will the two Monaghan N2 projects Main contact be tendered separately or as one big contract?


  • #76
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,148 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    roadmaster wrote: »
    Will the two Monaghan N2 projects Main contact be tendered separately or as one big contract?

    Separately, though both are progressing through planning at about the same speed.


  • #77
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    According to Eamon Ryan, this will commence construction in 2025. https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2021-03-24a.12


  • #78
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Pre application consultation for this project has commenced with An Bord Pleanala


    https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/313155



  • #79
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Sadly another 2 fatal crashes on this stretch of road in the last few days with 3 deaths in total. Very sad news, RIP to those involved.

    The design for this route is now online https://jacobs.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=332f2324518048d2b973d2f5a9640c8c

    Work in progress as consultation continues with landowners. The new road includes an upgrade of the Carrickmacross bypass and features 8 grade separated junctions in total (5 new, 3 upgraded). It is mainly an online upgrade with short offline stretches where necessary. Looks to be a 2+2 cross section

    It is an absolute imperative that this goes ahead asap.



  • #80
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,148 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Nice map. Though the tie-in with the N52 Ardee Bypass isn't taken into account even though you can see the land for it marked out in the aerial imagery. On the N2 they have a new roundabout and side road indicated which will need to be redesigned.



  • #81
    Imeacht gan teacht ort
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭Imeacht gan teacht ort


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119818302#Comment_119818302

    I thought that the N52 Ardee bypass was to begin on the same roundabout at the south end of the new N2 scheme.



  • Advertisement
  • #82
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,148 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    The N2 roundabout will be fine; it’s the new side road indicated on the N2 map that clashes with the N52 scheme.



  • #83
    Imeacht gan teacht ort
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭Imeacht gan teacht ort


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119830457#Comment_119830457

    Ah yes, sorry, I see what you mean, now.



  • #84
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Updated design now published

    https://n2monaghanlouth.ie/a2c-publications

    However, not enough funding was provided for 2023 so the project has now been suspended. The project is almost ready to submit to An Bord Pleanala as per the February 2023 update below

    https://n2monaghanlouth.ie/a2c-latest-news



  • #85
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,212 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    rather than starting a new thread, anyone know why they've resurfaced the N2 from the M50 for a couple of kilometres north of there?

    i drive the road regularly enough and it wasn't in a condition which would have suggested the job was necessary.



  • #86
    yannakis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭yannakis


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471839#Comment_120471839

    I was wondering the same.. maybe they wanted to spend some money for the fun of it 🤣



  • #87
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,908 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463559#Comment_120463559

    Why would they not keep this scheme tipping along? The government has the money and advancing it through the processes would seem to make sense.



Advertisement