N2 - Ardee to Castleblayney [preferred route published; ABP in 2022]

L1011 wrote: »

.....In a lot of places it'll happen within the existing road surface width if going 2+2 anyway!

What is the proposal for this stretch of road?
2+2, 2+2 with grade separated junctions, or HQDC?
Assume traffic volumes don't justify Motorway.

spacetweek wrote: »

What? It’s quite the opposite. Online widening in Ireland would destroy hedgerows which is a no-no.
Going through fields is ok as they are monocultures.
I agree archaeology is a potential issue which wouldn’t be the case for online but you can usually know about the potential for finds in advance.
The reason online is appropriate for this scheme is that much of the route was upgraded relatively recently.

Offline build would also require cutting through a hedgerow every couple of hundred metres so is unlikely to be significantly less damaging than online. With online, the widening can be limited to one side and this can alternate to minimise impact. Online isn't going to interfere with the route of some snail or damage bog cotton or any of the other random things which see road projects appealed and delayed to cancellation. You also don't have to deal with farmers complaining about their lands being divided.

This is a very high-quality mainline route as it is. The regional roads throughout the region that connect to this route are appalling also. I don't think any of the current or projected AADT figures warrant 2+2 ANYWHERE along this stretch.

The N33 has higher AADT values, why is it not considered for 2+2?

Besides, from Leitrim to Louth there is basically no route that satisfactorily links all these places in between. The N53 is good now, but the section across the border is in an utter heap. West of Castleblayney the route options are hilariously bad with every single road into and out of Ballybay or Shercock being asphalted and widened dirt tracks.

This is completely the wrong solution for the entire region and there are so many smaller and desperately needed schemes to improve journey times and safety.

I've raised this personally with someone in Jacobs and tbh they're just told what to do by TII or indeed the relevant roads office.

This scheme gives the impression that there's a design office of qualified and capable people who just don't have anything else to work on and within the confines of the law, can't be redeployed to other parts of Ireland or work on other really necessary schemes.

The department of transport are fine with not rocking the boat, but if politics (and indeed current coalition policy) was a priority, the route from Dundalk go Cavan would be a national secondary route and the outrageous sums on this N2 scheme would be instead used where it's actually needed.

I wonder how many people reading this have actually driven on any of the shambolic regional roads in Monaghan. Probably the only regional road that's not in an utter state is the R188 and maybe the R162, both running north to south. The situation in Cavan is a little better, especially the cootehill to Cavan part, but this scheme is an example of a system that's unable to anything except "think big".

lucernarian wrote: »

I've raised this personally with someone in Jacobs and tbh they're just told what to do by TII or indeed the relevant roads office.

This scheme gives the impression that there's a design office of qualified and capable people who just don't have anything else to work on and within the confines of the law, can't be redeployed to other parts of Ireland or work on other really necessary schemes.

The department of transport are fine with not rocking the boat, but if politics (and indeed current coalition policy) was a priority, the route from Dundalk go Cavan would be a national secondary route and the outrageous sums on this N2 scheme would be instead used where it's actually needed.

I wonder how many people reading this have actually driven on any of the shambolic regional roads in Monaghan. Probably the only regional road that's not in an utter state is the R188 and maybe the R162, both running north to south. The situation in Cavan is a little better, especially the cootehill to Cavan part, but this scheme is an example of a system that's unable to anything except "think big".

Do you not enjoy the adventure of dodging artic's in the middle of the road between Dundalk and Cavan especially on the shercock road ?

I think there are two main reasons for the Upgrade in that its the Main Dublin Derry road and will link to the
A5 Derry to Aughnacloy when built. The second is there has being several fatal head on collisions over the years between Ardee and the border. In regards the N33 i think Marno in a post in the past mentioned the N33 would be dualled , I could be wrong but

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The map on page 5 of the brochure shows the dotted blue line on the existing road apart from at Cookstown Cross and the indicative junction labelled Drumgeeny/Leeg. That suggests it is an online upgrade which is the logical solution here.

The logical solution is to do nothing beyond similar safety upgrades similar to what the Carrickmacross bypass has now... The east west corridor is completely neglected with no realignment work done on the routes linking the large regional towns in 2 decades. This scheme is unjustifiable with the current traffic loads. Regarding safety, this isn't a situation like the Piltown bypass on the N24 (or the Slane bypass). There's no actual engineering reason given for the higher fatality rate in past years and one has to wonder, if speed is the real cause of these accidents, why would 2+2 help with that?

marno21 wrote: »

2+2 removes the risk of head on collisions. And traffic conflicts at junctions with right turns.

This scheme will be cheaper per km than most other 2+2 schemes and will add 31km of dual carriageway to one of the long term “prioritised” long distance routes in the country

There is currently plans to build a dual carriageway from Derry to Clontibret. It makes no sense to have a 31km stretch of single carriageway with the rest dualled and that 31km stretch having a horrendous safety record.

The lack of east west improvements is not relevant. If this N2 scheme doesn’t get built the money remains within TII and will go to one of the other 22 schemes this scheme is competing with for funding

So, adding 31km too.... Have more yellow/green lines on a map? There's literally dozens of more important schemes than this. And unlike other schemes like the Slane bypass, there is no factor of road design here involved in the sccidents. Unless being too straight and allowing for speeding is the issue? Where's the road improvement schemes for Inishowen or the N13, with its ridiculously poor safety record? They are all in worse physical condition than the N2.

The accidents along this stretch have drastically reduced after the safety measures implemented a few years ago. The only recent accident involved the older part north of Carrickmacross with a lot of at-grade movements. Something that could be fixed with some roundabouts and reducing overtaking opportunities on the part immediately north of CMX.

The only reason relevancy comes into it is because the border counties have no secondary route of any kind linking them cohesively, unless driving the incredible detour of the N53/N54 is a realistic option for some?

It's also incorrect to say the rest is dualled. The N33, which DOES have the AAHT numbers to back up a dual carriageway, with practically minimal effort, is not in the NDP. As for the rest of the N2, the safety record of parts around Ashbourne is hardly great either and there's not even a route corridor yet for the Kilmoon cross scheme.