Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

Have to agree on tactics and game plan - every time a pass was played into the middle of the field Limerick had guys bursting a gut to break out past the receiver looking to take an off load and moving forward like a wave. We on the other hand in that position were constantly isolated and had to turn ball in hand, most of the time into hard hitting traffic, and getting hammered constantly loosing the ball in dangerous positions.

To be honest this is not a very complicated game plan, it is based on the simple philosophy of pass and move, not giving opposition time to make contact, and is very hard to counteract. While it is a game plan based on relative simplicity, it involves extreme amounts of hard work, combined with totally commitment to unselfish running and unselfish passing. It does carry its own level of risk in that if the guy in receipt of the ball initially, does not release it to the runners or makes a mess of the off load, lads are out of position and can be opened up, (bit like an intercept in rugby) It is based on endeavour, trust and execution.

Now the questions arise:

- what kind of a game plan have we being working on in our training camps?
- are our players willing to be so unselfish in their work rate and running?
- Are they unselfish enough to repeatedly off-load or pass the ball to the guy in the better position?
- Are they willing to sacrifice personal glory for the benefit of the team?
- Are our management strong and brave enough to implement this type tactic.

In fairness to McGrath when he first introduced his game plan we did something similar, breaking out at pace with quick passing and getting receivers into position. Unfortunately we were never brave enough to implement it any where near to the level of Limerick. When the opposition sussed our game plan they pushed up on us and forced us to play quicker ball and work harder. Instead of increasing our work rate and moving the ball faster, our answer was to bring back more and more numbers, and all this achieved was to bring the game totally into our half of the field with no outlet or threat to the opposition defence. If you watch Limerick they invariably kept a constant threat inside with forwards always moving into space looking for the ball, pegging our defender back and creating space in front of our full back line allowing them to go long when it suited. For me McGrath was never positive or brave enough to take his game plan to the next level and this was his biggest failing.

Once final point and it relates to the drama on WLR this morning that we are going to push ahead with redeveloping Walsh Park - talk about sensationalism!!! If we as a county are even contemplating for one second not redeveloping Walsh Park because of these results and performances we should disband the County Board now. Walsh Park is a shining example of what needs to be done, we need to get our heads out of our A..ses and move forward, think bigger and work harder -

For me the interesting line is that they will go ahead with the development if the funding that was promised comes through. What I had heard last weekend is that some of that funding was now in doubt.

liogairmhordain wrote: »

3 championship losses and one draw.
I don't know how many times I've heard this week that Waterford have lost every match since the new structure came in.

I think the point has been driven home pretty well that we haven't won a championship game since August 2017, and our Munster record during McGrath's era was also extremely poor.

Does anyone have stats on scoring in recent years? Eg. Mullane used to score about 3.5 points per game or something like that over his career. (guessing what his average was as I can't remember)

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Does anyone have stats on scoring in recent years? Eg. Mullane used to score about 3.5 points per game or something like that over his career. (guessing what his average was as I can't remember)

An article in The Times had him down at about 3.65 a game.

I can’t beleive that people are still alluding to Derek McGrath as the reason the team isn’t performing. Crazy stuff. The buck stops with Fanning completely. Stop dressing it up this is an absolute shambles and he needs to go straight away. If he doesn’t resign after the weekend he needs to be removed. Otherwise There is no coming back from this **** show

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Where did I suggest bringing him back?

Sorry you've just tried to defend him so robustly I thought that's what you were edging towards.

hardybuck wrote: »

To add further context, Clare won an All Ireland in the year preceding that window you've looked at, and Limerick won an All Ireland in 2018.

In the two finals you've mentioned, Waterford were beaten by 21 points in one and five in the other. These came in the lull after Clare won an All Ireland and before Limerick won one.

I can't believe you'd suggest bringing McGrath back. Whatever about changing manager at the end of the season, definitely don't go back - he had 5 years as manager so can't feel hard done by.

Was he getting the best out of a limited group of players though.

blue note wrote: »

Why is everyone trying to make Derek out to have been so poor? Whatever about ignoring all the injuries in his last season (which is ridiculous to be honest), but also only focusing on his munster record? Therefore ignoring the semi finals and final. Why would you do that?

The truth is for three seasons under Derek we were one of the top teams in the country. In 2015 we ran out of steam by the time the semi came around, but had needed that season to get back to the top table. In 2016 we threw away the semis against Kilkenny. And in 2017 we made galway take on the shots you hope to see your opponents take on and the first 10 or so of them went over. And still we only lost by a score. 2018 no team could have coped with our injuries. We actually did quite well to get a draw and come close to cork.

For Derek's tenure the consensus seems to be that he was holding us back and now that he's gone we seem to have changed our minds that the players were ever capable of competing with the top teams and are selectively looking at his record to rewrite it as a complete failure.

But at the end of it all, we were due a change and some fresh ideas. For that reason while I was grateful to Derek I was glad to see him go. But this year has been a disaster of a season and I would say everyone needs to take their share of responsibility, but given what I've read here I better clarify that that doesn't include last year's management. But the set up has looked poor, we've had a mix of no game plan and terrible game plans (puck outs this year have become terrible for example), and the players have played terribly whatever the system.

The latest flare up of Derek chat was prompted by some people mentioning the poor Munster Championship record of recent years. We've had an awful record in recent years, and relied on the qualifiers to championship wins for some time now. Now those qualifiers aren't available to Waterford the seasons are suddenly very short - that's just a recent development that could become something more medium to long term.

There are a number of people here who are very sensitive to any criticism of Derek, those who are really anti-Derek, and those who take a balanced view (or think they do).

blue note wrote: »

With the new munster structure you get at least 4 games. That was enough to win an all Ireland for many teams up to then. It's not a short season in terms of games.

And the qualifiers were knockout games against some weaker teams, but also against teams like kk, Cork, Dublin. I can understand ignoring 2018 when judging his record, the injuries were exceptional. But I can't understand ignoring the knockout hurling.

The way I look at is that we've been struggling in Munster for some time now. However we now don't have the opportunity to play teams outside Munster and build momentum en route to AI semi's and finals.

That isn't a reflection on anyone's record - it's just a reflection on the record from 2011 onwards.

Still no official team?

Cork team to play Waterford tomorrow at 7pm in Páirc Uí Chaoimh:

1. Anthony Nash - Kanturk
2. Sean O' Donoghue - Inniscarra
3. Eoin Cadogan - Douglas
4. Niall O' Leary - Castlelyons
5. Robert Downey - Glen Rovers
6. Mark Ellis - Millstreet
7. Mark Coleman - Blarney
8. Bill Cooper - Youghal
9. Darragh Fitzgibbon - Charleville
10. Daniel Kearney - Sarsfields
11. Seamus Harnedy - St Itas (Captain)
12. Luke Meade - Newcestown
13. Alan Cadogan - Douglas
14. Patrick Horgan - Glen Rovers
15. Aidan Walsh - Kanturk

Subs:
16. Patrick Collins - Ballinhassig
17. Conor O' Sullivan - Sarsfields
18. Damien Cahalane - St Finbarrs
19. Stephen McDonnell - Glen Rovers
20. Tim O' Mahony - Newtownshandrum
21. Christopher Joyce - Na Piarsaigh
22. Robbie O' Flynn - Erins Own
23. Shane Kingston - Douglas
24. Conor Lehane - Midleton
25. Declan Dalton - Fr O' Neills
26. Jamie Coughlan - Newtownshandrum

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Still no official team?

The team was posted on here already

Déise hurling banter page on Facebook pulling an April fools.

Team named:

B Nolan
S McNulty
C Prunty
D Lyons
C Lyons
T DeBurca
C Gleeson
J Barron
M Kearney
Sh Bennett
B O'Halloran
J Prendergast
T Ryan
St Bennett
P Hogan

It is notable how many posters are giving Derek plaudits looming at his record saying that the players we have are limited and that Derek over achieved with them and are saying Fanning is not up to it . Before casting such judgements on players and current management look at Derek’s first year in charge and see what he achieved in his first year ! Humiliation, relegation and an early exit . And before anyone says he took over a team in trouble look again at our league and championship performance the year before he took over - safely stayed in a very competitive first division and beaten in extra time by Kilkenny - a bit of balance and fair analysis would not go astray

Are Waterford from 8-15 all less than 6 foot in height?

blueflame wrote: »

It is notable how many posters are giving Derek plaudits looming at his record saying that the players we have are limited and that Derek over achieved with them and are saying Fanning is not up to it . Before casting such judgements on players and current management look at Derek’s first year in charge and see what he achieved in his first year ! Humiliation, relegation and an early exit . And before anyone says he took over a team in trouble look again at our league and championship performance the year before he took over - safely stayed in a very competitive first division and beaten in extra time by Kilkenny - a bit of balance and fair analysis would not go astray

Michael Ryan was treated badly. I thought he transitioned us from Davy’s style quite well.

Dropped or refused to play - will be interested to see the bench 🀨