If Fianna Fail win the next election, will we see boom time policies?

Loafing Oaf · 14-10-2019 9:48am

LillySV wrote: »

Well fg kind to everyone but the middle income taxpayer ..... the middle income paye worker treated like ****... constantly hit with hidden taxes and charges in every budget... the current Fianna Fáil govt be no better though... they’ve happily stood by in the background for last no of years doing nothing and blaming the confidence and supply agreement ...they’re just happy to sit by doing nothing and getting paid ... something has to change with the political system in Ireland as too many people getting paid too much to do nothing

Why would you expect any different from FF, irrespective of confidence and supply? They're not trying to hoodwink people about where they stand.

Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin has sought to position his party “a bit to the left” ahead of the general election, and criticised Taoiseach Enda Kenny’s plans for United States levels of personal taxation.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fianna-f%C3%A1il-a-bit-to-the-left-says-miche%C3%A1l-martin-1.2487360

noodler · 14-10-2019 10:21am

jmreire wrote: »

So Harry, the "Grey Vote" IE OAP's are Pandered to in a way that the working poor are not....What about the 50 odd years they worked, and were the "working Poor" them selves??? Don't be so quick to blame the OAPs for the ill's of this Country, they are not the cause of it. It was not the OAP's who made the financial mess was it? so pick some other category to blame, banker's, politician's maybe? Leave the OAP's out of it...they have done their bit to keep the Country afloat.

They are the least at risk of poverty, by and large have pensions many now working will never obtain and have their mortgages paid for

The hollowing out of key services for other key areas of the population in favour of enriching the already rich is Mindboggling. As is the championing of it by people who will never enjoy such benefits.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 14-10-2019 10:46am

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt49DsfKDMc

Danzy · 14-10-2019 10:57am

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Strange that the route to power is so straightforward yet nobody is availing of it

They might have some level of basic economics.

Funny how those with all the answers are never running anything large.

Eric Cartman · 14-10-2019 11:00am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The unemployed? There was an anti charges protest that hit the streets in Dublin which had over a 100k march are you claiming every protester was unemployed?

Lets be honest with ourselves here, the vast majority of people protesting against the water charges were unemployed or low earners. People on 25k+ are well used to taxes and charges , wouldnt he half as rialled up.

All those blocking meter installs, the jobstowm thugs etc... they werent exactly doing 9-5s

Eric Cartman · 14-10-2019 11:01am

Danzy wrote: »

They might have some level of basic economics.

Funny how those with all the answers are never running anything large.

Politics isnt about having the right answers or right aolutions, its about telling enough lies to make everyone feel warm inside for voting for you, feel like theyre helping others but in reality doing nothing

Geuze · 14-10-2019 11:02am

TheRiverman wrote: »

I have savaged us with taxes and cut backs and need to be obliterated at the next election.

cUT BACKS??

Cut backs?

Public spending has risen strongly................

Plumbthedepths · 14-10-2019 11:05am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Lets be honest with ourselves here, the vast majority of people protesting against the water charges were unemployed or low earners. People on 25k+ are well used to taxes and charges , wouldnt he half as rialled up.

All those blocking meter installs, the jobstowm thugs etc... they werent exactly doing 9-5s

The last thing you are doing is being honest. Over 1.6 million households in the state at the inception of charges. Compliance hadn't reached 1 million before the regime was parked.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 14-10-2019 11:12am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Lets be honest with ourselves here, the vast majority of people protesting against the water charges were unemployed or low earners. People on 25k+ are well used to taxes and charges , wouldnt he half as rialled up.

All those blocking meter installs, the jobstowm thugs etc... they werent exactly doing 9-5s

They were or you want them to be because it makes it easier for you to make a point?

This logic of protester automatically means unemployed doesn't make for a sound argument, especially when you can't back it up.

Boggles · 14-10-2019 11:33am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Lets be honest with ourselves here

You start.

jmreire · 14-10-2019 12:14pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Lets be honest with ourselves here, the vast majority of people protesting against the water charges were unemployed or low earners. People on 25k+ are well used to taxes and charges , wouldnt he half as rialled up.

All those blocking meter installs, the jobstowm thugs etc... they werent exactly doing 9-5s

Complete and utter B***Sht.....you working for Irish Water, Eric? What have you to say about the way Irish Water was foisted on people? Private company pretending to be the Govt, and insisting on PPS nrs? Illegal from start to finish.

Loafing Oaf · 14-10-2019 12:36pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

they always add a religious angle or somethign else to crock it up.

PDs were as secular as any other party of their time, didn't seem to make their brand of 'right wing' any more popular with voters...

Eric Cartman · 14-10-2019 12:38pm

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

PDs were as secular as any other party of their time, didn't seem to make their brand of 'right wing' any more popular with voters...

Well they were in government with FF , which is more than can ever be said for any of the left or the shinners.

Loafing Oaf · 14-10-2019 12:51pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Well they were in government with FF , which is more than can ever be said for any of the left or the shinners.

Well doesn't their long spell in government and the attendant high profile they enjoyed only underscore my point. Despite all that they never established a solid presence on the political landscape, and whatever success they enjoyed seemed to be largely dependent on the personal support bases of their prominent members

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 14-10-2019 12:52pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Well they were in government with FF , which is more than can ever be said for any of the left or the shinners.

Weren't Labour in a coalition in 92?

Eveyone left of far left of any substance has pretty much been in government with FF at some point.

Loafing Oaf · 14-10-2019 12:54pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Weren't Labour in a coalition in 92?

Eveyone left of far left of any substance has pretty much been in government with FF at some point.

He probably means the 'hard left'

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 14-10-2019 12:55pm

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

He probably means the 'hard left'

To Eric, that's pretty much everything left of strong right.

rossie1977 · 14-10-2019 1:02pm

lola85 wrote: »

Have to laugh when people say FG only care about the rich.

The welfare brigade have been spoiled under this government.

Ireland has the one of the lowest welfare spending per capita in Europe. Social welfare rates are same now as in 2009.

Irelands population like most of developed countries is aging at a rapid rate and living longer than ever.

In just the last year the number of people over 65 in Ireland increased by 3.5%. You are going to come to a point in next few decades where nobody might be on dole but social welfare budget increases due to our aging population.

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images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRF8mFkEoK-1f5WZzOgRZWkHUFbx-p5tQ0UkI3uCCCvM0rSAEFW

noodler · 14-10-2019 1:29pm

rossie1977 wrote: »

Ireland has the one of the lowest welfare spending per capita in Europe. Social welfare rates are same now as in 2009.

Irelands population like most of developed countries is aging at a rapid rate and living longer than ever.

In just the last year the number of people over 65 in Ireland increased by 3.5%. You are going to come to a point in next few decades where nobody might be on dole but social welfare budget increases due to our aging population.

Because we have one of the youngest populations in the EU.

Our GDP is also a terrible, inflated metric for the comparison you put forward. Rather than copy that graph from rte, go to Eurostat and make it again using GNI* from the CSO and we'll be closer to average.

ChikiChiki · 14-10-2019 1:35pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Lets be honest with ourselves here, the vast majority of people protesting against the water charges were unemployed or low earners. People on 25k+ are well used to taxes and charges , wouldnt he half as rialled up.

All those blocking meter installs, the jobstowm thugs etc... they werent exactly doing 9-5s

The delusion is strong in this one.

Ulysses Gaze · 14-10-2019 2:03pm

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Why would you expect any different from FF, irrespective of confidence and supply? They're not trying to hoodwink people about where they stand.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fianna-f%C3%A1il-a-bit-to-the-left-says-miche%C3%A1l-martin-1.2487360

Fianna Fail are an ideology free zone. Whatever you are having yourself as long as the builders get taken care of.

Geuze · 14-10-2019 3:43pm

FF swing whichever way the people do.

Geuze · 14-10-2019 3:45pm

noodler wrote: »

Our GDP is also a terrible, inflated metric for the comparison you put forward. Rather than copy that graph from rte, go to Eurostat and make it again using GNI* from the CSO and we'll be closer to average.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/bookmark/b2240418-b8a6-42ef-a8b8-426dfe563673?lang=en

Ireland spends about 8,500 on SPE pp.

This is close to the EA average, even though we have a younger than average population.

Eric Cartman · 14-10-2019 5:17pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Weren't Labour in a coalition in 92?

Eveyone left of far left of any substance has pretty much been in government with FF at some point.

Labour are centre left, within the usual ‘centerist’ swing

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 14-10-2019 6:36pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Labour are centre left, within the usual ‘centerist’ swing

Aren't they all...?

Centrist, I mean

Eric Cartman · 14-10-2019 6:48pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Aren't they all...?

Centrist, I mean

no, FG, FF and Labour are.

the greens and renua are single social agenda with bolt ons from the left / right respectively

SF are crazy populists
almost anyone else is to the left

identity ireland / national front / whatever theyre calling themselves are socially far right with no clear economic strategy

LillySV · 14-10-2019 6:53pm

rossie1977 wrote: »

Ireland has the one of the lowest welfare spending per capita in Europe. Social welfare rates are same now as in 2009.

Irelands population like most of developed countries is aging at a rapid rate and living longer than ever.

In just the last year the number of people over 65 in Ireland increased by 3.5%. You are going to come to a point in next few decades where nobody might be on dole but social welfare budget increases due to our aging population.

Does this take account of all people registered on back to education or sent on courses ... or how about those on schemes.... Ireland has a great way of massaging figures

Eric Cartman · 14-10-2019 6:55pm

LillySV wrote: »

Does this take account of all people registered on back to education or sent on courses ... or how about those on schemes.... Ireland has a great way of massaging figures

its also not per capita either..... and in a % of gdp.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 14-10-2019 7:29pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

no, FG, FF and Labour are.

the greens and renua are single social agenda with bolt ons from the left / right respectively

SF are crazy populists
almost anyone else is to the left

identity ireland / national front / whatever theyre calling themselves are socially far right with no clear economic strategy

That was my point - Labour are centrist left.

Eric Cartman · 14-10-2019 7:31pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That was my point - Labour are centrist left.

yes, but you used them as an example of my point where the PDs who were the closest thing weve ever had to actual right got power but none of the actual left have ever seen power luckily.

noodler · 14-10-2019 8:27pm

LillySV wrote: »

Does this take account of all people registered on back to education or sent on courses ... or how about those on schemes.... Ireland has a great way of massaging figures

That doesn't really make sense.

Idbatterim · 14-10-2019 8:36pm

Fg and FF are a joke, but they are the best options out of all the jokes in my opinion. for this country, short of a new good, viable party forming. the best thing to happen in my opinion, is FF and FG simply go into coalition. Take out all the morons like the independent alliance, Shane ross (the minister for stepaside guarda station) agree on key points, be it LPT, water charges, general taxation etc and start to make proper progress on issues.

The biggest issue is their fear of losing votes over say LPT, well if FG dont want it increased, we cant look for an increase either etc. I wouldnt merge the parties, they'd never do that, but for this country, it would be best if they you simply go into coalition in my opinion and we might get even a hint of direction and leadership, because the country currently is just rudderless, spineless Taoiseach etc...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 14-10-2019 8:59pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

yes, but you used them as an example of my point where the PDs who were the closest thing weve ever had to actual right got power but none of the actual left have ever seen power luckily.

No.... I used then as an example of a left wing party in coalition with FF in reply to this:

Well they were in government with FF , which is more than can ever be said for any of the left or the shinners.

LillySV · 14-10-2019 10:53pm

noodler wrote: »

That doesn't really make sense.

It makes great sense.... people in receipt of long term Jobseeker’s Allowance go on the back to education Allowance and are therefore moved to a different category and not counted as unemployed ... same as those on ce and tus.... long term unemployed doing 19.5 hours work experience so considered employed rather than unemployed

Danzy · 15-10-2019 11:33am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

that was bord gais for the billing , also it wouldnt have been squandered if it went ahead..... but ofcourse the unemployed got too rowdy.

FG knew that most of those protesting or not paying were the middle class.

The perma unemployed wouldn't have been a 20th of those that refused to pay.

That is why it was scrapped.

James Brown · 15-10-2019 1:47pm

touts wrote: »

Well sometime soon a party is going to cop on that the welfare class don't actually vote. The party who runs on cutting tax and cutting welfare to balance it gets an overall majority.

The country runs on grants and subsidies.

James Brown · 15-10-2019 1:49pm

Danzy wrote: »

FG knew that most of those protesting or not paying were the middle class.

The perma unemployed wouldn't have been a 20th of those that refused to pay.

That is why it was scrapped.

That's what's 'gas', (see what I did there?) those on welfare would be exempt. Where FG/Lab badly misjudged the whole thing was thinking it was all Paul Murphy and layabouts. It wasn't.

*************

The only bright side of Fianna Fail getting in officially would be social housing. I think they'll lorry into the building. Plenty of back handers to be had.

rossie1977 · 15-10-2019 2:19pm

touts wrote: »

Well sometime soon a party is going to cop on that the welfare class don't actually vote. The party who runs on cutting tax and cutting welfare to balance it gets an overall majority.

Considering the biggest slice of sw spending is on pensions that worked well the last couple of times someone tried it
https://www.rte.ie/archives/2013/1022/481958-pensioners-protest-2008/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/pensioners-protest-1141795-Oct2013/%3famp=1

Pensioners are the most vocal voting group in the country. By 2050 there will be 1.6 million people over 65 in Ireland. Any party attempting to cut their entitlements won't see out 5 years in government.

Idbatterim · 15-10-2019 3:13pm

rossie1977 wrote: »

Considering the biggest slice of sw spending is on pensions that worked well the last couple of times someone tried it
https://www.rte.ie/archives/2013/1022/481958-pensioners-protest-2008/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/pensioners-protest-1141795-Oct2013/%3famp=1

Pensioners are the most vocal voting group in the country. By 2050 there will be 1.6 million people over 65 in Ireland. Any party attempting to cut their entitlements won't see out 5 years in government.

as you point out, the amount of leverage they have, given the relatively small number of them now, compared to one or two decades is staggering! But they cant keep increasing as they have, the numbers are simply far too large, its not just the pension, look at all the other stuff they get handed to them on a plate, its worth a fortune!

BailMeOut · 15-10-2019 3:16pm

we had a referendum (Fiscal Compact Treaty) that will limit government deficit spending so the answer to your question is no.

Eric Cartman · 15-10-2019 6:37pm

Danzy wrote: »

FG knew that most of those protesting or not paying were the middle class.

The perma unemployed wouldn't have been a 20th of those that refused to pay.

That is why it was scrapped.

The middle class are well known for having enough free time to hang around on housing estates and attack construction workers :rolleyes:

Im not saying a lot of the middle class didnt object, a hell of a lot of people clearly objected, but the violent actions, most of the non saturday protests and the PbP rent a mob that trapped joan burton were not people who are used to paying taxes...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 15-10-2019 6:53pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The middle class are well known for having enough free time to hang around on housing estates and attack construction workers :rolleyes:

Im not saying a lot of the middle class didnt object, a hell of a lot of people clearly objected, but the violent actions, most of the non saturday protests and the PbP rent a mob that trapped joan burton were not people who are used to paying taxes...

Again: they were or you want them to be because it makes it easier for you to make a point, Eric?

James Brown · 15-10-2019 7:05pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The middle class are well known for having enough free time to hang around on housing estates and attack construction workers :rolleyes:

Im not saying a lot of the middle class didnt object, a hell of a lot of people clearly objected, but the violent actions, most of the non saturday protests and the PbP rent a mob that trapped joan burton were not people who are used to paying taxes...

Unlikely that people would take time to protest something that has absolutely no effect on them what so ever.
We are to believe that people on welfare are up for protesting something that they'd never be asked to pay? I admire their community spirit.
I know pensioners and house wives who attended week day protests. How should we ridicule them Eric?

JRant · 15-10-2019 7:54pm

I see from today's news that the fiscally responsible FG are going to waste over 200 million on another vanity project, namely a new road between Castlebar and Westport.

It's almost like they're daring voters to go FF in the next election.

Danzy · 16-10-2019 1:23am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The middle class are well known for having enough free time to hang around on housing estates and attack construction workers :rolleyes:

Im not saying a lot of the middle class didnt object, a hell of a lot of people clearly objected, but the violent actions, most of the non saturday protests and the PbP rent a mob that trapped joan burton were not people who are used to paying taxes...

Your talking about a tiny fraction and blowing that up to the mass marches and the majority that didn't pay.

Who gives a fuk what the PvP rent a mob did.

They were a side story.

Loafing Oaf · 16-10-2019 10:18am

JRant wrote: »

I see from today's news that the fiscally responsible FG are going to waste over 200 million on another vanity project, namely a new road between Castlebar and Westport.

It's almost like they're daring voters to go FF in the next election.

How is that any more of a 'vanity project' than any other new road?

What reason is there to think FF would be any more 'fiscally responsible' in government?

Idbatterim · 16-10-2019 12:31pm

I agreed with water charges in principle, but if its the wasters get it free and the taxpayer pays, those wasters have done us all a favour, by having it paid out of general taxation. Not enough money to even give them their fiver (which is still a scandalous waste of money) in the budget. Thanks lads!

If Fianna Fail win the next election, will we see boom time policies?

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