Junior Diplomat/Third Secretary

Gareth178 · 09-11-2013 2:44pm

incidentally, here's an amusing (yet informative) blog from a spouse of a US diplomat. while it's not entirely relevant, it's an eye opener

http://diplomaticmom.blogspot.ae/

ezra_pound · 09-11-2013 5:22pm

TheCruiser wrote: »

It's more a difference of opinion, Ezra, to be fair. A lot of ppl on here don't agree with your assessment of the round 1 stage. Additional work and education requirements wouldn't reduce the competitive element - it's just a different form of competition. It's debatable.

Sorry but the more you restrict entry requirements, the fewer applicants there are and the less competition there is.

That's just the nature of competition.

Also it wouldn't be very fair on Joe Bloggs BA who has worked as a PA , event manager and studied politics but never got a Masters. It is an arbitrary and unfair restriction on him.

JUDE2013 · 10-11-2013 1:10am

This is a fun argument to watch, but I'm going to throw my hat in with Ezra.

Coming from a law and politics background I first thought it was strange that third year undergrads were offered traineeships where others who had completed a masters and FE1s wouldn't get a look in, but the whole point of it is that the highest qualifications don't necessarily mean the best candidate. Employers look for different things.

People have mentioned teachers and vets getting these jobs, which suggests that the CS looks at the person rather than the qualification, hence the need not to be too rigid with application requirements. I like it. The interview will tell all at any rate.

LG1234 · 10-11-2013 9:41pm

Did anyone do any online practice exams before doing the online tests? If so, could they give me the address? Its for a different comp on which I need to practice.

lucat · 11-11-2013 3:06am

LG1234 wrote: »

Did anyone do any online practice exams before doing the online tests? If so, could they give me the address? Its for a different comp on which I need to practice.

There are practice tests on the publicjobs website, but not for abstract reasoning, as far as I could see. I bought the EU Administrator (AD) exam book in Waterstones a while ago and I found that really useful to practice with. The standard in that book is way above that in the civil service tests so it's great training. It's by András Baneth if you want to get it yourself & IMO it's worth it if you think you'll be doing a few of them.

salmon1 · 11-11-2013 4:18pm

Hopefully we hear something in the next few days

saltyjack silverblade · 11-11-2013 4:24pm

salmon1 wrote: »

Hopefully we hear something in the next few days

Should probably tweet them and ask for an answer. They usually tweet the answers fairly promptly. The longer this is going on for me the less hope I am holding out!

Gareth178 · 11-11-2013 5:03pm

i rang them this morning and they said it'd probably be late in the week before the results are out.

ccee · 11-11-2013 5:55pm

I emailed them this morning because the waiting is torture, and this is what the emailed back...

Dear C

We hope to issue the results of the on line tests later this week and the next stage of the process will take place week beginning 25th November.

Hope this helps everyone!! Hopefully we will all get good news later in the week!

The_Conductor · 11-11-2013 6:36pm

Week of 25th? Dammit. I've 3 other things on that week. I'm getting really good at double booking myself for multiple things.......

saltyjack silverblade · 11-11-2013 6:40pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Week of 25th? Dammit. I've 3 other things on that week. I'm getting really good at double booking myself for multiple things.......

I suppose outsourcing it is out of the question?

Albert_Roi · 11-11-2013 11:20pm

Ah no, I have an early morning flight on Friday the 29th, I really hope it's not on the Friday! (I hope I get to the next stage more though!)

Best of luck everyone, the waiting is tough!

sureitsgrand · 12-11-2013 10:56am

Sorry to bring the bad news lads, but just got a tweet from Publicjobs saying that stage 2 invitations will not be going out until next week

I'm lucky in that I can be quite flexible IF (a big if!) I get to stage 2, but I imagine this could cause problems for lots of people.

Gareth178 · 12-11-2013 11:15am

wish i could be as flexible. flying home from the middle east for it (if i'm lucky enough to be called!) and flights get more expensive as each day passes:<

sureitsgrand · 12-11-2013 11:20am

Gareth178 wrote: »

wish i could be as flexible. flying home from the middle east for it (if i'm lucky enough to be called!) and flights get more expensive as each day passes:<

Ah Jaysis.

saltyjack silverblade · 12-11-2013 12:03pm

Releasing the invitations next week is ridiculous. They have the results and I am sure they know who is going through at this point. I would say it is being delayed because of all the other positions advertised and they don't want pressure on them for release.
Living in Dublin so travel is not a problem but it still annoys me as I don't want to make plans for the upcoming week until I know for definite.

Montjuic · 12-11-2013 1:03pm

Next week now lovely!

That is such bollix and totally unfair public jobs are an utter disgrace crap automated selection methods because a bunch of menopausal biddies are too lazy to go through CVs properly since it would interfere with their tea breaks and discussion of last nights soaps coupled with rubbish organisation. If you look at the CVs of the current ambassadors they all had relevent degrees in politics and the like. Under these selection methods people who get through are a mish mash of people with some having little or no interest. No wonder the public service has a bad name!

If a candidate displayed such ineptitude?

How are people supposed to make plans if they get called i.e organizing time off work and travel to Dublin - do they think everyone lives in Dublin. In my case I have too organize time off work and fly home as I work abroad if called.

ezra_pound · 12-11-2013 2:14pm

Montjuic wrote: »

Next week now lovely!

That is such bollix and totally unfair public jobs are an utter disgrace crap automated selection methods because a bunch of menopausal biddies are too lazy to go through CVs properly since it would interfere with their tea breaks and discussion of last nights soaps coupled with rubbish organisation. If you look at the CVs of the current ambassadors they all had relevent degrees in politics and the like. Under these selection methods people who get through are a mish mash of people with some having little or no interest. No wonder the public service has a bad name!

If a candidate displayed such ineptitude?

How are people supposed to make plans if they get called i.e organizing time off work and travel to Dublin - do they think everyone lives in Dublin. In my case I have too organize time off work and fly home as I work abroad if called.

Ah c'mere. Leave ever ouw!

Is this the eloquence and insight of the future of irish diplomacy? Don't say that in your interview whatever you do.

Montjuic · 12-11-2013 3:50pm

Of course - diplomacy is the art knowing when to keep your mouth shut. Just venting my fury the only place I can. I'm not going to tweet public jobs with my above accurate if not intemperate description of the situation which to be fair is a sick joke. Hoping public jobs biddies may see it and be shamed into action...no wait the tea is ready screw you Joe Public!

ezra_pound · 15-11-2013 6:34pm

I'm through to round 2! Hope more of you make it too!

Montjuic · 15-11-2013 6:39pm

Congrats how were you informed? I thought they said next week or have they released the results this evening? Noting in my emails or private messages on public jobs bad sign I suppose

The_Conductor · 15-11-2013 6:43pm

Nothing here either

TheCruiser · 15-11-2013 6:47pm

Nada here.

ezra_pound · 15-11-2013 6:56pm

Montjuic wrote: »

Congrats how were you informed? I thought they said next week or have they released the results this evening? Noting in my emails or private messages on public jobs bad sign I suppose

Got email and text few mins ago - about half five. Then logged straight into pub jobs and read good news. Hopefully time lag in messages getting out.

JUDE2013 · 15-11-2013 6:57pm

Through as well. Got an email telling me that I have a new message on my PublicJobs profile. No mention of ranking or how many got through though.

Best of luck to everyone.

TheCruiser · 15-11-2013 7:01pm

JUDE2013 wrote: »

Through as well. Got an email telling me that I have a new message on my PublicJobs profile. No mention of ranking or how many got through though.

Best of luck to everyone.

Congrats Jude. Was yours at 5:30 too?

TheCruiser · 15-11-2013 7:06pm

Just got the bad news:

"While you reached the qualifying standard in each of the tests unfortunately you are not in the top group being invited to the next stage of the selection process."

Best of luck to everyone left in the process, let us know how you get on.

JUDE2013 · 15-11-2013 7:07pm

Thanks. Yeah, mine was the same. Still the same disclaimer that invitation to the next round does not mean qualification for the position, so they probably haven't looked at the applications at all yet.

I've no idea if the invitations were sent out in bulk, so they could still be issuing them. Hopefully everyone will hear back soon.

CathyMoran · 15-11-2013 7:09pm

Nothing for me, so know that I did not get through

The_Conductor · 15-11-2013 7:09pm

I'm hitting 'refresh' every couple of minutes here- nothing yet though

lucat · 15-11-2013 7:09pm

TheCruiser wrote: »

Just got the bad news:

"While you reached the qualifying standard in each of the tests unfortunately you are not in the top group being invited to the next stage of the selection process."

Best of luck to everyone left in the process, let us know how you get on.

I got the same message. How would they decide on the top group? Did they get no questions wrong or just 1? I'm pretty gutted because I thought I only got 1-2 wrong. Does anyone think they'd be able to tell you what rank you were if you asked- or are they not calculating it at all?

PS- I hate PAS!

The_Conductor · 15-11-2013 7:19pm

No joy here. Oh well.

CathyMoran · 15-11-2013 7:22pm

No joy

salmon1 · 15-11-2013 7:25pm

No joy aswel,best of luck everyone

la_rose · 15-11-2013 7:27pm

It's a no for me as well. Will be interested to hear how many of the 1700 applicants got through to the second round

IS_a_Class · 15-11-2013 7:28pm

Well that is a pity guys. I got through but am not going because the thing starts at 9am on a Monday morning so would need travel expenses which i don't have, accommodation the night before which i definitely can't afford, and have other interview on tuesday with less hoops to jump through, so i wanna be fresh and ready for that.

Do they think we are made of money? At least 3 trips to Dublin before you get a whiff of an offer? In comparison, I've an assessment with a company in Belfast, but they wisely scheduled it for 2pm to give people a chance to get up there.

That sucks that there will be empty places due to people not going, like me, but still people who met the criteria don't get a chance

CathyMoran · 15-11-2013 7:29pm

The exam was nice, that was the only thing...ah well. Congrats to the people that got through.

IS_a_Class · 15-11-2013 7:30pm

Interesting, lots of people not getting through. Wonder how many got through. Maybe it could be worth going if i got my hands on some cash.

lucat · 15-11-2013 7:41pm

IS_a_Class wrote: »

Interesting, lots of people not getting through. Wonder how many got through. Maybe it could be worth going if i got my hands on some cash.

Apparently DFA are only taking on about 40. So I'd say only about 50-60 got through. That's why I'm wondering did they have to have perfect scores :-/ You should go if you can- statistically speaking you're very lucky!

saltyjack silverblade · 15-11-2013 7:49pm

Nope I am out. Got the same email as others about reaching the qualifying standard but not through.
Best of luck to all who got through!

JUDE2013 · 15-11-2013 7:53pm

lucat wrote: »

Apparently DFA are only taking on about 40. So I'd say only about 50-60 got through. That's why I'm wondering did they have to have perfect scores :-/ You should go if you can- statistically speaking you're very lucky!

I'd disagree with that Lucat. I imagine a few hundred got through, as they still need to whittle the pool down through stage 2 and the interviews at stage 3, with the possibility of a second interview at stage 4. The final panel will need to be bigger than 40 as well, as not everyone who is offered the job will accept it.

Montjuic · 15-11-2013 8:00pm

I reiterate publicjobs.ie = lazy tea drinking biddies too lazy to go through CVs properly since it may look like work to try and find the best candidates.

Better an automatic test from the UK of squares and circles. Hence all sorts will get through and not necessarily the best. All aptitude tests are more suited to the scientific/engineering profile especially in this case the abstract reasoning one. Obviously not the verbal reasoning at least that was half way relevant.

TheCruiser · 15-11-2013 8:12pm

IS_a_Class wrote: »

Interesting, lots of people not getting through. Wonder how many got through. Maybe it could be worth going if i got my hands on some cash.

You should definitely go: short term financial pain, long term good opportunity. Give it a shot.

lucat · 15-11-2013 8:19pm

Montjuic wrote: »

I reiterate publicjobs.ie = lazy tea drinking biddies too lazy to go through CVs properly since it may look like work to try and find the best candidates.

Better an automatic test from the UK of squares and circles. Hence all sorts will get through and not necessarily the best. All aptitude tests are more suited to the scientific/engineering profile especially in this case the abstract reasoning one. Obviously not the verbal reasoning at least that was half way relevant.

I found the tests do-able but apparently not do-able enough!!

IS_a_Class · 15-11-2013 8:30pm

60? ya reckon? I was thinking maybe 200

lucat · 15-11-2013 8:39pm

IS_a_Class wrote: »

60? ya reckon? I was thinking maybe 200

I was probably wrong about 60. Not sure about 200 though, that seems high. But I think the real question is - what qualified those people (whether it's 60 or 200) to be in the 'top group'? (How many questions did you have to get right?) If there was a tie-breaker, did they look at the profiles of the people to decide who should go through and who not? Or did all who got 0 and 1 wrong, fx, get through, regardless of final numbers?

Albert_Roi · 15-11-2013 8:47pm

It's also a no for me, same message as the others. I didn't expect to get through but obviously still disappointed.

Even though I've been really interested in the job for the last few years, I'm not too disappointed, mainly because I don't think that even if my application had been read as part of a properly-run recruitment process that I would have been in a position to be well-qualified enough with sufficient experience over other people to be offered the job. But, if I already had lots of relevant experience, masters in the area, etc. and I got knocked out by the lottery of those tests, then I think I'd feel very hard done by. I know we've had the argument here already and I can understand why Public Jobs do it this way, they're very understaffed and have other competitions ongoing so they need the cheapest possible way to eliminate hundreds of people in a very transparent manner but it is very annoying to know that my application, which I spent a very long time on, is never going to be read. But c'est la vie, we'll just apply next time and hopefully the next time won't be four years away like the last time!

Good luck to everyone who has advanced to the next stage and let us know about the next stage(s), I really hope someone from here gets in!

lucat · 15-11-2013 8:59pm

Albert_Roi wrote: »

It's also a no for me, same message as the others. I didn't expect to get through but obviously still disappointed.

Even though I've been really interested in the job for the last few years, I'm not too disappointed, mainly because I don't think that even if my application had been read as part of a properly-run recruitment process that I would have been in a position to be well-qualified enough with sufficient experience over other people to be offered the job. But, if I already had lots of relevant experience, masters in the area, etc. and I got knocked out by the lottery of those tests, then I think I'd feel very hard done by. I know we've had the argument here already and I can understand why Public Jobs do it this way, they're very understaffed and have other competitions ongoing so they need the cheapest possible way to eliminate hundreds of people in a very transparent manner but it is very annoying to know that my application, which I spent a very long time on, is never going to be read. But c'est la vie, we'll just apply next time and hopefully the next time won't be four years away like the last time!

Good luck to everyone who has advanced to the next stage and let us know about the next stage(s), I really hope someone from here gets in!

I've also been really interested in the job for years- frankly it's a vocation- and I have a couple of years relevant experience and a professional MA in the subject. I can also understand the rationale for those tests, but if I find out (if I can) that I didn't make the cut as I got 2 Qs wrong or something like that....I'll be extremely disappointed.

np24 · 15-11-2013 9:41pm

I got the same message too, met the standard but not in the top group, I wonder if you get more feedback later i.e. your actual result. This is the hardest stage I think if you are suitable at all you could get through the next stages easier. The abstract reasoning is a nitemare I have never sat such an exam and I dispute it measures raw intelligence it is clearly biased to people who have experience here as there are rules and tricks to pass that you would know with practice. In verbal or numerical at least you can accept missing out with abstract I think you could feasibly get them all wrong if you are not experienced. Whereas with Verbal or Numerical I could feasibly get them all right and would always get a lot right. Hopefully they recruit again in 2 years and I will try again this time I will spend the preceding year applying for every job posted on publicjobs.ie and sitting the corresponding aptitude tests for experience. Does anyone know how you get an AO job with the DFA? Anyway good luck to those who got through really is the dream job.

Gareth178 · 15-11-2013 10:39pm

no luck here either ...it was a long shot in any event (and this only the first stage really) but still a bit disappointed ...congrats to those on here to get to the next stage, and hope you get even further ! best of luck !

Junior Diplomat/Third Secretary

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