Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

2000 Guineas 2019

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    I have an Excel file that I often use when assessing classic races.
    You give points for wins in Listed, Group 3, Group 2, Group 1 races.
    The greater the winning distance the more points, the better the race more points.
    For example, a 5 length win in a Group 1 gets 9 points, a short head win in a Listed race gets 1 point.
    It has been ridiculed on forums before, but it shows winners of important races coming into the classic.

    Dist Dist Dist Dist Dist Dist Dist Dist Dist Points Points Points Points Points Points Points Points Points Points Points
    Name List List G3 G3 G2 G2 G1 G1 G1 List List G3 G3 G2 G2 G1 G1 G1 MAX SUM
    Advertise 2 0.5 5 4 5 9
    Anthony Van Dyck 5 0.5 7 3 7 10
    Azano
    Bell Rock
    Calyx 1 4 4 4
    Daarik
    Great Scot 2 3 3 3
    Jash
    Kick On 0.3 1 1 1
    Line Of Duty 1.25 0.5 3 4 4 7
    Madhmoon 2.5 5 5 5
    Magna Grecia 0.2 4 4 4
    Mohaather 1.5 0.75 3 2 3 5
    Momkin
    Name The Wind
    Persian King 0.3 5 2 7 7 9
    Phoenix Of Spain 1.5 3 3 3
    Royal Marine 0.3 4 4 4
    Royal Meeting 0.75 4 4 4
    Set Piece
    Skardu 0.3 2 2 2
    Ten Sovereigns 4 0.5 6 4 6 10
    Urban Icon
    Zakouski


    I do not know if Anthony Van Dyck is going in the 2000 Guineas, but have just now has a bet of 12.77 Euro at 122.83.
    He was beaten by Quorto, Too Darn Hot, Line Of Duty in his last three races in a 7 race 2yo campaign.
    He was born on 19th May 2016 and might have been a bit immature.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    Andre Fabre is saying that it's 90% certain that Persian King will miss Newmarket and go to the French Guineas instead. If the ground in France turns soft then Persian King will head to Newmarket looking for the good ground that he needs.


    Meanwhile Advertise one of last year's top two year olds trades at double figures despite his trainers assurances that he has matured well over the winter and his sire Showcasing has been doing well with his three year olds. He's the value bet in the race at this moment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Andrew00


    Know idea why nobody is mentioning Advertise too. Carries some of the best form into this race and his price is great ew value imo


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭abarkie


    Andrew00 wrote: »
    Know idea why nobody is mentioning Advertise too. Carries some of the best form into this race and his price is great ew value imo

    Unfashionable trainer?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭abarkie


    I have an Excel file that I often use when assessing classic races.
    You give points for wins in Listed, Group 3, Group 2, Group 1 races.
    The greater the winning distance the more points, the better the race more points.
    For example, a 5 length win in a Group 1 gets 9 points, a short head win in a Listed race gets 1 point.
    It has been ridiculed on forums before, but it shows winners of important races coming into the classic.

    Dist Dist Dist Dist Dist Dist Dist Dist Dist Points Points Points Points Points Points Points Points Points Points Points
    Name List List G3 G3 G2 G2 G1 G1 G1 List List G3 G3 G2 G2 G1 G1 G1 MAX SUM
    Advertise 2 0.5 5 4 5 9
    Anthony Van Dyck 5 0.5 7 3 7 10
    Azano
    Bell Rock
    Calyx 1 4 4 4
    Daarik
    Great Scot 2 3 3 3
    Jash
    Kick On 0.3 1 1 1
    Line Of Duty 1.25 0.5 3 4 4 7
    Madhmoon 2.5 5 5 5
    Magna Grecia 0.2 4 4 4
    Mohaather 1.5 0.75 3 2 3 5
    Momkin
    Name The Wind
    Persian King 0.3 5 2 7 7 9
    Phoenix Of Spain 1.5 3 3 3
    Royal Marine 0.3 4 4 4
    Royal Meeting 0.75 4 4 4
    Set Piece
    Skardu 0.3 2 2 2
    Ten Sovereigns 4 0.5 6 4 6 10
    Urban Icon
    Zakouski


    I do not know if Anthony Van Dyck is going in the 2000 Guineas, but have just now has a bet of 12.77 Euro at 122.83.
    He was beaten by Quorto, Too Darn Hot, Line Of Duty in his last three races in a 7 race 2yo campaign.
    He was born on 19th May 2016 and might have been a bit immature.

    Do you create the spreadsheet yourself or download from somewhere?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    abarkie wrote: »
    Do you create the spreadsheet yourself or download from somewhere?
    It was a "system" mentioned in an old cheap paperback book, and I put it into Excel to make it easy to use.
    You ignore all the maiden, conditions, handicap wins and just enter the Listed and Group wins.
    For the classic races you will have a maximum of about four group wins for any horse. Most have none.
    I would not say it is successful, but you take a closer look at the form of horses with Group wins.
    If you PM we an e-mail address I will send you a copy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    Charlie Appleby is considering bypassing the 2000 Guineas with Line Of Duty in favour of an outing in the Al Basti Equiworld Dubai Dante Stakes at York. [Sporting Life]


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,775 ✭✭✭✭Slattsy


    Calyx. Backed off the preverbials.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭madmoose


    Slattsy wrote: »
    Calyx. Backed off the preverbials.

    Surely has no chance on seasonal reappearance having only won over 6f and looks speedy?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,775 ✭✭✭✭Slattsy


    madmoose wrote: »
    Surely has no chance on seasonal reappearance having only won over 6f and looks speedy?

    No idea. Ain't seen a flat race yet. Must be doing summit in the gaff though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Andrew00


    Yep Gosdens stable staff have certainly piled into Calyx. It won't get 8f just like ten sovereigns


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    Andrew00 wrote: »
    Yep Gosdens stable staff have certainly piled into Calyx. It won't get 8f just like ten sovereigns

    It'll get 8f alright, it's by a miler who was never tested over further out of a top class 2yo miler dam who beat Immortal Verse over a mile as a 2yo and she finished 2nd to Misty For Me in the 2yo Gp1 Prix Marcel Boussac over 1mile. Calyx was spectacular in the Coventry but Sergei Prokofiev was on his tail without being fully wound up that day and he didn't do much for the form afterward. The last time a Coventry Winner won the 2,000 Guineas was in 2012 when Dawn Approach did the double and the only other time it had been done in the last 40 years was by Henrythenavigator in 2008 but both of those horses had won over 7f as juveniles and both had plenty of runs as juveniles.

    The best chance of Calyx failing at Newmarket would be that his dam went backwards pretty quickly as a 3yo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 230 ✭✭WicklowBrave


    Magna Grecia.

    He'll win by default yet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 604 ✭✭✭famagusta


    From Twitter


    Calyx is very late foal (25th April) and only two 2000 Guineas in last 30 years foaled after 6th April. Sire's Racing Post sire stamina figure of 8.3 is low with only three winners in last 30 below 8.8. Calyx last run was 19/06 and no winners in last 30 didn't run 28/07 onwards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,775 ✭✭✭✭Slattsy


    Fair play to Twitter, they know everything!


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭krustydoyle


    On Magna Grecia at 12s so I'm happy enough


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    famagusta wrote: »
    From Twitter


    Calyx is very late foal (25th April) and only two 2000 Guineas in last 30 years foaled after 6th April. Sire's Racing Post sire stamina figure of 8.3 is low with only three winners in last 30 below 8.8. Calyx last run was 19/06 and no winners in last 30 didn't run 28/07 onwards.

    That Sire Stamina index for Kingman is already wrong ( now 8.4 instead of the 8.3 on the Twitter comment ) and probably very misleading, he's a second season sire whose stock are just after turning 3 and they are only now beginning to step up in trip. He has a 40% winners to runners ratio ( 2 from 5 ) at 10f-11f and his sole runner at 12-13f placed 3rd on his only start at the distance. His stamina index will keep on rising through this year.

    The 3 from 30 stat for below an 8.8 stamina index is highly likely to have been arrived at. by looking at the current or last stamina index given for sires rather than by looking at the actual Stamina index of a sire at the time of their progeny's 2,000 Guineas win.

    Can't argue with the age and last date to run stats, but he was mature enough to win a Coventry in the June of his 2yo career. I'd be thinking myself that he wouldn't be fully revved up in the Guineas and more likely to place there before showing big improvement in the St James Palace Stakes at Ascot. That tends to be the Gosden way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    I think the stamina index can be a bit misleading.
    You are right to point out that Kingman can have few runners 3yo and over so his stamina index will be based on almost no runners.
    The Stamina Index could only be useful for sires with at least three crops of 3yos.

    For the 2018 English Derby I questioned on Betfair the stamina index of Deep Impact, the sire of Saxon Warrior.
    When I looked into it in detail I found it was based on only about a dozen runners in GB/ IRE, almost all in low grade races, with the exception of Saxon Warrior himself.
    The Racing Post Stamina Index is based only on GB / IRE runners.

    People said Deep Impact had won over 2 miles in Japan, and had finished 3rd in the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe.
    Long distance races in Japan are of very firm tracks, wide tracks, the field moving along like a cycling peleton, the winner getting cover all the way (cyclists describe this as an armchair ride).

    I much prefer actual data to percentages and averages.
    Percentages, which should be based on data greater than a hundred (per cent) are often based on a handful.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭ASOT


    Calyx out now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    Line Of Duty out, 31 still in (and that includes Calyx). No French trained horse.


  • Advertisement
  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    ASOT wrote: »
    Calyx out now.
    Line Of Duty out, 31 still in (and that includes Calyx). No French trained horse.

    Where did you see for sure he is out? It looks like the bookies have stop taking bets. Who are Marathon ?

    https://www.oddschecker.com/horse-racing/ante-post-racing/flat/2000-guineas/winner


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭BumperD




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 604 ✭✭✭famagusta


    Magna grecia is into clear fav now

    Mohaather is now lame, decision about running to be made next Monday,

    They're dropping like flies


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    I put 20 at 85s on Emaraaty Ana while waiting to see the final declarations.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭abarkie




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Andrew00


    Madhmoon


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    My bet is Al Hilalee at 15.66


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 604 ✭✭✭famagusta


    Donnacha is on magna grecia, Ryan on ten soverigns, good news for all the magna backers!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    It looks really open. No big bet for me. I might have a ew on Andrew Balding's seen as he is flying at the moment.

    Probably Coolmore, but you can pick holes in both of theirs.

    I really hope Skitter Scatter turns up for the 1000. She looked really tough last year. The way she stayed on in the Moyglare, when she looked in trouble, if she turns up on Sunday I will be having a good go at her. Let's hope she has trained on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    On Windfinder the forecast wind on Saturday afternoon is 17 knots from the left and very slightly behind.
    On Sunday for the 1000 Guineas it is 9 knots from behind and slightly from the left.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 230 ✭✭WicklowBrave


    It seems everyone (myself included until now) is just assuming Ten Sovereigns won’t stay but the more I think about it the more I don’t see how he won’t stay. He relaxes so well in his races and on pedigree it should be within his compass. If he stays he wins imo and 7/2 seems like more than a fair price to find out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    It seems everyone (myself included until now) is just assuming Ten Sovereigns won’t stay but the more I think about it the more I don’t see how he won’t stay. He relaxes so well in his races and on pedigree it should be within his compass. If he stays he wins imo and 7/2 seems like more than a fair price to find out.

    There are lines of form to suggest that the Middle Park form is better even than the Dewhurst, or at least better than that of the runner still left to uphold the Dewhurst form. I believed in this fellow as a 2yo and moving from 2-3 years of age hasn't knocked back the form of the No Nay Never progeny and they seem to get 7-8f without a drop in form. So he should have trained on which is more half the battle, but I dread the thought of Ryan holding him up to get the trip and then finding himself repeatedly blocked when making his run through the big field that's going to turn up for this open looking race.

    Magna Grecia has the perfect pedigree for the race and Donnacha will give him a smooth pathway to the line. I'd be a little worried about his 2yo form not being good enough.

    Madhmoon's trial looks better when it's assessed in terms of it being over an inadequate trip with his carrying a hefty penalty. He's a beautiful mover and I can't resist having a punt on him.

    Advertise has Frankie's assistance in the saddle which will mean that he'll be sent on in plenty of time and will have to be good enough to repel all challengers. Has great place prospects but should find one too good on the day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    The 19 runners are by 17 different sires, and many in the field are by sprinters.
    Only one of the 17 sires has sired a 2000 Guineas winner, Dubawi sired Makfi.
    Al Hilalee is by Dubawi.

    It has the ingredients for an upset.
    With a strong breeze forecast, about 18 knots from the left, I think those drawn low (far side) are favoured: Madhmoon (1), Emaraaty Ana (2), Skardu (3), Set Piece (4), The Sovereigns (5).
    Advertise (drawn 8) with Dettori might get cover and last the mile.
    Magna Grecia is drawn 17 imo a negative.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭Mgoraf


    Who is the oldest horse in the race?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Andrew00


    Kevin Prendergast is bullish!

    “I’m very happy with him. He couldn’t be better or fitter and I think whatever beats him will win.”


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,782 ✭✭✭brickster69


    The 19 runners are by 17 different sires, and many in the field are by sprinters.
    Only one of the 17 sires has sired a 2000 Guineas winner, Dubawi sired Makfi.
    Al Hilalee is by Dubawi.

    It has the ingredients for an upset.
    With a strong breeze forecast, about 18 knots from the left, I think those drawn low (far side) are favoured: Madhmoon (1), Emaraaty Ana (2), Skardu (3), Set Piece (4), The Sovereigns (5).
    Advertise (drawn 8) with Dettori might get cover and last the mile.
    Magna Grecia is drawn 17 imo a negative.

    Interesting also that only one of those sires won a 2000 Guineas.

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,194 ✭✭✭FatRat


    Anyone give Skardu a chance? I like the look of him

    Disclaimer: Also a James Doyle fanboy


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭akelly02


    Is drawn high or low better ? Is high towards the near rail as we are watching?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    akelly02 wrote: »
    Is drawn high or low better ? Is high towards the near rail as we are watching?


    It depends on the wind direction. See Tetrach's post above, he is all over it.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    It depends on the wind direction. See Tetrach's post above, he is all over it.
    I became a wind watcher, and am thinking of getting one of those handheld wind measuring yokes.
    If you have a bicycle you will know the effect.
    As a fan of Nick Mordin I learned from his writings that it was something to consider in a race, especially on a straight course like Newmarket or The Curragh.
    Mordin suggested looking at the flags (always at racecourses) and if the flag is fully stretched it is about 20 mph, half stretched about 10 mph.
    Years ago at The Curragh I backed a winner in a handicap at 14/1 only because it was drawn on the far side with the wind coming from the opposite side.
    The horse was out of the wind getting an easy time until asked to win in the last hundred yards.
    The bookmaker had a big smile on his face when I arrived to collect, his only payout on the race.

    A great example of an intelligent ride in strong wind is Frankie Dettori on Blue Bunting 16/1 in the 2011 English 1000 Guineas.
    She was drawn 16, and afaik in those days high numbers were on the right (away from the stand). Now the high numbrs are stand side.
    There was a strong wind from the right, and Blue Bunting was drawn on the right, the "wrong" side.
    Frankie took a pull coming out of the stalls, took Blue Bunting to the back of the field, worked his way over to the left of the field, kept his filly at the rear and on the left getting cover from the wind.
    The horses in front were getting a battering from the wind.
    In the last furlong Frankie had plenty of horse, came up the stand rails, and won easily.

    At the moment the wind at Newmarket is 29 km/h or 18 mph, and the forecast is for a little higher.

    I do not know how the field will split in the 2000 Guineas.
    My guess if they will all end up on the far rail as the wind is from the stand side.
    My preference would be for a low draw horse (drawn far side).
    It shows the risks you take with antepost betting - horses are withdrawn, the ground, draw, wind all unknown, and of course you do not know the prices on the day.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,034 Mod ✭✭✭✭The Mig


    Years ago at The Curragh I backed a winner in a handicap at 14/1 only because it was drawn on the far side with the wind coming from the opposite side.
    Fanny W is gonna love this


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭BumperD


    Went for Madhmoon


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭abarkie


    Advertise for me


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    Laid Ten Sovereigns to be in the first five at 1.62.
    He wins, or he comes home in his own time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,194 ✭✭✭FatRat


    Scardu it is then


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭BumperD


    The money came for Ten Soverigns #theyknew


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,194 ✭✭✭FatRat


    Stand side wins that as they are saying. I actually feel hard done by with Skardu there. On the wrong rail side and veered by Ten Sovereigns. Good win by Magna. Will keep a keen eye on Skardu


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,017 ✭✭✭Itziger


    That was impressive, even taking into account the pace/groups.

    10 winners for Aidan, that's madness. Will never be bettered surely.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,017 ✭✭✭TheMilkyPirate


    Good winner.

    Had madhmoon in an e/w treble PP were offering 4 places on the guineas is that only singles does anyone know?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭BumperD


    Good winner.

    Had madhmoon in an e/w treble PP were offering 4 places on the guineas is that only singles does anyone know?

    “Should” apply all types of bets


  • Advertisement
Advertisement